There is absolutely no new ground being covered here. President Biden's reminder that most of the moving parts, in terms of making these initiatives real, is firmly in the hands of the private sector is more than a little disconcerting. If you think the government hates spending money of maintenance and infrastructure as opposed to big new projects in certain voting districts, the private sector is even worse. There's nothing sexy or industry pundit or Wall Street investor inspiring about a big tech company narrowing their attack surface or hardening their servers against cyber security attacks.
Hey, maybe I missed it in Tim Cook's last keynote, the 20 foot tall screen showing an animation of a bank vault door protecting our data slamming shut, or a slide about how many great engineers were working on software maintenance and refactoring core infrastructure code after having subjected the code to intensive third party security audits. It may have been stitched in the presentation with drooling slather about how many compute cores are on Apple's latest SoC or the performance benefits of unified memory. I sometimes nod off at the beginning those keynotes, you know, the part where Apple pats itself on its own back part with impressively big numbers and shows happy people surfing, swimming, staring at the Milky Way, or doing far more interesting things than we ever do, mostly because they have an Apple product in their lives, in their hand, or on their wrist.
Face it, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Intel, local, state, and federal governments, etc., are no different than the rest of us when it comes to how we spend our money. We want new, we want shiny, we want slick, we want to impress ourselves and those around us. We want sprinkles on our ice cream and health care plans for our dogs. Things like maintenance, upkeep, grinding through the drudge and sludge to keep normal stuff working are decidedly uncool. No matter that we have entire neighborhoods whose basements fill with raw sewage every time it rains heavily because the residents who are driven from their stench filled homes can gaze upon the shiny new taxpayer subsidized professional football stadium off in the distance.
When it comes to cyber security the government has been investing very heavily for more than a decade in things like creating PowerPoint presentations and creating working groups that spend a great deal of time describing, but not actually doing, the work that needs to be done. Who could not be impressed with the presentations and launching of initiatives. This one is probably as nice as any of them and could easily have been reused in President Biden's latest meeting (https://www.nist.gov/system/files/documents/cyberframework/critical_infrastructure_cybersecurity.pdf). Just roll all the dates forward, add some new transition effects, order fresh donuts and bagels ... and maybe some pumpkin spice lattes, even though some of us, myself included, have no time in our lives for anything "pumpkin spice" before October, okay maybe late September if you're north of 41 degrees latitude, say in BlackBerry and poutine country.
I don’t remember hearing about cyber security initiatives in the past. I don’t remember all of these technology company heads coming to the White House to discuss the cyber security threats and how to prevent them. To me it sounds like we finally might be taking the threat seriously.
Yeh, taking it seriously is a good first step. Kudos for that! (It's long past due!)
But all these companies can do is play defense. These are cyber terrorists. It's our government's job to take them out.
My understanding is that it wasn't China but Chinese people -- big difference -- unless you're a China hater or a racist.
Or just trolling.
George, I can't make you read the articles I link, and yes I 100% get the news you've been trusting comes from Chinese-sanctioned sources.
In this case you really should read the link I provided. Biden says the Chinese Government hired them. It wasn't simply "Chinese people" acting on their own accord so I do believe you have misunderstood.
The Biden administration official said that China's Ministry of State Security employed criminal contract hackers "to conduct unsanctioned cyber operations globally, including for their own personal profit."
Although the U.S. says criminal gangs of hackers with links to Russian intelligence carried out such audacious ransomware attacks as the one that caused Colonial Pipeline – a major U.S. petroleum distribution network – to shut down temporarily, China's outright hiring of contract hackers is "distinct," the official said.
Biden is not Trump, so let's give him the benefit of the doubt that he's not lying. With that in mind I'll ask you again: Your original comment sounds as tho you'd be good, better than good in fact, with counter-cyberwarfare against hackers who attack the US. Those hackers in this case are Chinese government hired with Chinese interests. So Chinese technology, infrastructure like dams and electricity, financial systems would all be appropriate targets to get their attention?
Unless you're just here to troll us you'll try to make more of an effort to be honest and acknowledge sometimes the Chinese Government does bad things that invite a response.
There is absolutely no new ground being covered here. President Biden's reminder that most of the moving parts, in terms of making these initiatives real, is firmly in the hands of the private sector is more than a little disconcerting. If you think the government hates spending money of maintenance and infrastructure as opposed to big new projects in certain voting districts, the private sector is even worse. There's nothing sexy or industry pundit or Wall Street investor inspiring about a big tech company narrowing their attack surface or hardening their servers against cyber security attacks.
Hey, maybe I missed it in Tim Cook's last keynote, the 20 foot tall screen showing an animation of a bank vault door protecting our data slamming shut, or a slide about how many great engineers were working on software maintenance and refactoring core infrastructure code after having subjected the code to intensive third party security audits. It may have been stitched in the presentation with drooling slather about how many compute cores are on Apple's latest SoC or the performance benefits of unified memory. I sometimes nod off at the beginning those keynotes, you know, the part where Apple pats itself on its own back part with impressively big numbers and shows happy people surfing, swimming, staring at the Milky Way, or doing far more interesting things than we ever do, mostly because they have an Apple product in their lives, in their hand, or on their wrist.
Face it, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Intel, local, state, and federal governments, etc., are no different than the rest of us when it comes to how we spend our money. We want new, we want shiny, we want slick, we want to impress ourselves and those around us. We want sprinkles on our ice cream and health care plans for our dogs. Things like maintenance, upkeep, grinding through the drudge and sludge to keep normal stuff working are decidedly uncool. No matter that we have entire neighborhoods whose basements fill with raw sewage every time it rains heavily because the residents who are driven from their stench filled homes can gaze upon the shiny new taxpayer subsidized professional football stadium off in the distance.
When it comes to cyber security the government has been investing very heavily for more than a decade in things like creating PowerPoint presentations and creating working groups that spend a great deal of time describing, but not actually doing, the work that needs to be done. Who could not be impressed with the presentations and launching of initiatives. This one is probably as nice as any of them and could easily have been reused in President Biden's latest meeting (https://www.nist.gov/system/files/documents/cyberframework/critical_infrastructure_cybersecurity.pdf). Just roll all the dates forward, add some new transition effects, order fresh donuts and bagels ... and maybe some pumpkin spice lattes, even though some of us, myself included, have no time in our lives for anything "pumpkin spice" before October, okay maybe late September if you're north of 41 degrees latitude, say in BlackBerry and poutine country.
I don’t remember hearing about cyber security initiatives in the past. I don’t remember all of these technology company heads coming to the White House to discuss the cyber security threats and how to prevent them. To me it sounds like we finally might be taking the threat seriously.
Yeh, taking it seriously is a good first step. Kudos for that! (It's long past due!)
But all these companies can do is play defense. These are cyber terrorists. It's our government's job to take them out.
My understanding is that it wasn't China but Chinese people -- big difference -- unless you're a China hater or a racist.
Or just trolling.
George, I can't make you read the articles I link, and yes I 100% get the news you've been trusting comes from Chinese-sanctioned sources.
In this case you really should read the link I provided. Biden says the Chinese Government hired them. It wasn't simply "Chinese people" acting on their own accord so I do believe you have misunderstood.
The Biden administration official said that China's Ministry of State Security employed criminal contract hackers "to conduct unsanctioned cyber operations globally, including for their own personal profit."
Although the U.S. says criminal gangs of hackers with links to Russian intelligence carried out such audacious ransomware attacks as the one that caused Colonial Pipeline – a major U.S. petroleum distribution network – to shut down temporarily, China's outright hiring of contract hackers is "distinct," the official said.
Biden is not Trump, so let's give him the benefit of the doubt that he's not lying. With that in mind I'll ask you again: Your original comment sounds as tho you'd be good, better than good in fact, with counter-cyberwarfare against hackers who attack the US. Those hackers in this case are Chinese government hired with Chinese interests. So Chinese technology, infrastructure like dams and electricity, financial systems would all be appropriate targets to get their attention?
Unless you're just here to troll us you'll try to make more of an effort to be honest and acknowledge sometimes the Chinese Government does bad things that invite a response.
Yes, I had read such stuff at the time. But, what was notable was that we never took any action of any sort against the Chinese government -- not even an official protest or investigation by any international body. It was simply empty words that appeared to be speculative rather than verified and the fact that our allies were so wishy washy on it supported the speculative nature of it.
Also, what was notable was the uproar over speculation that China could have been behind it versus years of Russian attacks that get mostly a yawn. That points to the possibility that we're using it as a propaganda point.
As for Biden: I'm disappointed that he appears to be parroting Trump's international policies. It could be that he's more afraid of ReTrumplicans than China (or Iran).
BTW,
I check Global Times for the same reason I check FauxNews -- to see
what they are saying. And, the change over the last 2-3 years has been
dramatic. At first, like American media once did, they gave Trumps
lies legitimacy through false equivalency. Now, they hit right back.
It's clear they would prefer to drop this "lab leak" nonsense. But
since we won't, then they won't and they're going full steam on the Ft
Detrick theory. Personally, I'm glad to see them standing up to the lies --not because I love China -- but it pains me to see my country so weak that it resorts to lies and propaganda.
George, you're still 100% avoiding the question. If it is true as Biden says that China hired hackers to attack US interests is the appropriate response to it counter-cyberwarfare against Chinese interests and what Chinese targets do you think are appropriate to get their attention? I wouldn't have thought that too tough a question, especially considering how emphatically you said, and I quote: "These are cyber terrorists. It's our government's job to take them out."
One question at a time as I have one more after you answer this one.
I didn't avoid anything.
I pointed out that any evidence to that effect must have been pretty weak because, not only did we not follow up with anything against China (just jaw boning), but our allies gave a whimpy response as well.
Not to distract from your point, but as an example: There's a faction of our intelligence services claiming that the virus escaped from a lab in Wuhan. Yet, not only does China seem to actually have more evidence pointing the finger at Ft Detrick, when their allegations were looked into, (rumor has it) that the evidence was wanting -- just as it has been for Huawei and their CFO who's been held prisoner in Canada.
That's nice, you want to talk about something else like illnesses or Huawei instead of software and hardware security which we were both discussing in this security thread before you went wayward. Let's get the question on the table out of the way first and then we can go to whatever thread covers your virus or Huawei topic if you really think we need to go there. This one isn't it.
Maybe third time charm because you still very obviously avoid answering the repeated question.
So George, if for the sake of argument you accept that Biden isn't lying and the Chinese government was behind it would you support counter-cyberwarfare targeting Chinese interests and what are appropriate Chinese targets in your view? That's not saying they are guilty, I'm not going that far yet. Instead it's IF they are.
If you think a proven-guilty China should get a pass please explain why.
There is absolutely no new ground being covered here. President Biden's reminder that most of the moving parts, in terms of making these initiatives real, is firmly in the hands of the private sector is more than a little disconcerting. If you think the government hates spending money of maintenance and infrastructure as opposed to big new projects in certain voting districts, the private sector is even worse. There's nothing sexy or industry pundit or Wall Street investor inspiring about a big tech company narrowing their attack surface or hardening their servers against cyber security attacks.
Hey, maybe I missed it in Tim Cook's last keynote, the 20 foot tall screen showing an animation of a bank vault door protecting our data slamming shut, or a slide about how many great engineers were working on software maintenance and refactoring core infrastructure code after having subjected the code to intensive third party security audits. It may have been stitched in the presentation with drooling slather about how many compute cores are on Apple's latest SoC or the performance benefits of unified memory. I sometimes nod off at the beginning those keynotes, you know, the part where Apple pats itself on its own back part with impressively big numbers and shows happy people surfing, swimming, staring at the Milky Way, or doing far more interesting things than we ever do, mostly because they have an Apple product in their lives, in their hand, or on their wrist.
Face it, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Intel, local, state, and federal governments, etc., are no different than the rest of us when it comes to how we spend our money. We want new, we want shiny, we want slick, we want to impress ourselves and those around us. We want sprinkles on our ice cream and health care plans for our dogs. Things like maintenance, upkeep, grinding through the drudge and sludge to keep normal stuff working are decidedly uncool. No matter that we have entire neighborhoods whose basements fill with raw sewage every time it rains heavily because the residents who are driven from their stench filled homes can gaze upon the shiny new taxpayer subsidized professional football stadium off in the distance.
When it comes to cyber security the government has been investing very heavily for more than a decade in things like creating PowerPoint presentations and creating working groups that spend a great deal of time describing, but not actually doing, the work that needs to be done. Who could not be impressed with the presentations and launching of initiatives. This one is probably as nice as any of them and could easily have been reused in President Biden's latest meeting (https://www.nist.gov/system/files/documents/cyberframework/critical_infrastructure_cybersecurity.pdf). Just roll all the dates forward, add some new transition effects, order fresh donuts and bagels ... and maybe some pumpkin spice lattes, even though some of us, myself included, have no time in our lives for anything "pumpkin spice" before October, okay maybe late September if you're north of 41 degrees latitude, say in BlackBerry and poutine country.
I don’t remember hearing about cyber security initiatives in the past. I don’t remember all of these technology company heads coming to the White House to discuss the cyber security threats and how to prevent them. To me it sounds like we finally might be taking the threat seriously.
Yeh, taking it seriously is a good first step. Kudos for that! (It's long past due!)
But all these companies can do is play defense. These are cyber terrorists. It's our government's job to take them out.
My understanding is that it wasn't China but Chinese people -- big difference -- unless you're a China hater or a racist.
Or just trolling.
George, I can't make you read the articles I link, and yes I 100% get the news you've been trusting comes from Chinese-sanctioned sources.
In this case you really should read the link I provided. Biden says the Chinese Government hired them. It wasn't simply "Chinese people" acting on their own accord so I do believe you have misunderstood.
The Biden administration official said that China's Ministry of State Security employed criminal contract hackers "to conduct unsanctioned cyber operations globally, including for their own personal profit."
Although the U.S. says criminal gangs of hackers with links to Russian intelligence carried out such audacious ransomware attacks as the one that caused Colonial Pipeline – a major U.S. petroleum distribution network – to shut down temporarily, China's outright hiring of contract hackers is "distinct," the official said.
Biden is not Trump, so let's give him the benefit of the doubt that he's not lying. With that in mind I'll ask you again: Your original comment sounds as tho you'd be good, better than good in fact, with counter-cyberwarfare against hackers who attack the US. Those hackers in this case are Chinese government hired with Chinese interests. So Chinese technology, infrastructure like dams and electricity, financial systems would all be appropriate targets to get their attention?
Unless you're just here to troll us you'll try to make more of an effort to be honest and acknowledge sometimes the Chinese Government does bad things that invite a response.
There is absolutely no new ground being covered here. President Biden's reminder that most of the moving parts, in terms of making these initiatives real, is firmly in the hands of the private sector is more than a little disconcerting. If you think the government hates spending money of maintenance and infrastructure as opposed to big new projects in certain voting districts, the private sector is even worse. There's nothing sexy or industry pundit or Wall Street investor inspiring about a big tech company narrowing their attack surface or hardening their servers against cyber security attacks.
Hey, maybe I missed it in Tim Cook's last keynote, the 20 foot tall screen showing an animation of a bank vault door protecting our data slamming shut, or a slide about how many great engineers were working on software maintenance and refactoring core infrastructure code after having subjected the code to intensive third party security audits. It may have been stitched in the presentation with drooling slather about how many compute cores are on Apple's latest SoC or the performance benefits of unified memory. I sometimes nod off at the beginning those keynotes, you know, the part where Apple pats itself on its own back part with impressively big numbers and shows happy people surfing, swimming, staring at the Milky Way, or doing far more interesting things than we ever do, mostly because they have an Apple product in their lives, in their hand, or on their wrist.
Face it, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Intel, local, state, and federal governments, etc., are no different than the rest of us when it comes to how we spend our money. We want new, we want shiny, we want slick, we want to impress ourselves and those around us. We want sprinkles on our ice cream and health care plans for our dogs. Things like maintenance, upkeep, grinding through the drudge and sludge to keep normal stuff working are decidedly uncool. No matter that we have entire neighborhoods whose basements fill with raw sewage every time it rains heavily because the residents who are driven from their stench filled homes can gaze upon the shiny new taxpayer subsidized professional football stadium off in the distance.
When it comes to cyber security the government has been investing very heavily for more than a decade in things like creating PowerPoint presentations and creating working groups that spend a great deal of time describing, but not actually doing, the work that needs to be done. Who could not be impressed with the presentations and launching of initiatives. This one is probably as nice as any of them and could easily have been reused in President Biden's latest meeting (https://www.nist.gov/system/files/documents/cyberframework/critical_infrastructure_cybersecurity.pdf). Just roll all the dates forward, add some new transition effects, order fresh donuts and bagels ... and maybe some pumpkin spice lattes, even though some of us, myself included, have no time in our lives for anything "pumpkin spice" before October, okay maybe late September if you're north of 41 degrees latitude, say in BlackBerry and poutine country.
I don’t remember hearing about cyber security initiatives in the past. I don’t remember all of these technology company heads coming to the White House to discuss the cyber security threats and how to prevent them. To me it sounds like we finally might be taking the threat seriously.
Yeh, taking it seriously is a good first step. Kudos for that! (It's long past due!)
But all these companies can do is play defense. These are cyber terrorists. It's our government's job to take them out.
My understanding is that it wasn't China but Chinese people -- big difference -- unless you're a China hater or a racist.
Or just trolling.
George, I can't make you read the articles I link, and yes I 100% get the news you've been trusting comes from Chinese-sanctioned sources.
In this case you really should read the link I provided. Biden says the Chinese Government hired them. It wasn't simply "Chinese people" acting on their own accord so I do believe you have misunderstood.
The Biden administration official said that China's Ministry of State Security employed criminal contract hackers "to conduct unsanctioned cyber operations globally, including for their own personal profit."
Although the U.S. says criminal gangs of hackers with links to Russian intelligence carried out such audacious ransomware attacks as the one that caused Colonial Pipeline – a major U.S. petroleum distribution network – to shut down temporarily, China's outright hiring of contract hackers is "distinct," the official said.
Biden is not Trump, so let's give him the benefit of the doubt that he's not lying. With that in mind I'll ask you again: Your original comment sounds as tho you'd be good, better than good in fact, with counter-cyberwarfare against hackers who attack the US. Those hackers in this case are Chinese government hired with Chinese interests. So Chinese technology, infrastructure like dams and electricity, financial systems would all be appropriate targets to get their attention?
Unless you're just here to troll us you'll try to make more of an effort to be honest and acknowledge sometimes the Chinese Government does bad things that invite a response.
Yes, I had read such stuff at the time. But, what was notable was that we never took any action of any sort against the Chinese government -- not even an official protest or investigation by any international body. It was simply empty words that appeared to be speculative rather than verified and the fact that our allies were so wishy washy on it supported the speculative nature of it.
Also, what was notable was the uproar over speculation that China could have been behind it versus years of Russian attacks that get mostly a yawn. That points to the possibility that we're using it as a propaganda point.
As for Biden: I'm disappointed that he appears to be parroting Trump's international policies. It could be that he's more afraid of ReTrumplicans than China (or Iran).
BTW,
I check Global Times for the same reason I check FauxNews -- to see
what they are saying. And, the change over the last 2-3 years has been
dramatic. At first, like American media once did, they gave Trumps
lies legitimacy through false equivalency. Now, they hit right back.
It's clear they would prefer to drop this "lab leak" nonsense. But
since we won't, then they won't and they're going full steam on the Ft
Detrick theory. Personally, I'm glad to see them standing up to the lies --not because I love China -- but it pains me to see my country so weak that it resorts to lies and propaganda.
George, you're still 100% avoiding the question. If it is true as Biden says that China hired hackers to attack US interests is the appropriate response to it counter-cyberwarfare against Chinese interests and what Chinese targets do you think are appropriate to get their attention? I wouldn't have thought that too tough a question, especially considering how emphatically you said, and I quote: "These are cyber terrorists. It's our government's job to take them out."
One question at a time as I have one more after you answer this one.
I didn't avoid anything.
I pointed out that any evidence to that effect must have been pretty weak because, not only did we not follow up with anything against China (just jaw boning), but our allies gave a whimpy response as well.
In addition, it later came out that it wasn't just Chinese who did the hacking but many hackers from all over the world.
As we have seen, with the U.S.: complaining about China seems to come pretty easy. It's the evidence to back it up that's hard.
Not to distract from your point, but as an example: There's a faction of our intelligence services claiming that the virus escaped from a lab in Wuhan. Yet, not only does China seem to actually have more evidence pointing the finger at Ft Detrick, when their allegations were looked into, (rumor has it) that the evidence was wanting -- just as it has been for Huawei and their CFO who's been held prisoner in Canada.
That's nice, you want to talk about something else like illnesses instead of software and hardware security. Let's get the question on the table out of the way first and then we can go to whatever thread covers your virus topic if you really think we need to go there. This one isn't it.
Maybe third time charm because you still refuse to offer your opinion on the US response to hacking efforts which you were happily talking about just a few posts earlier. Yes, you are factually avoiding a straight answer.
So George, if for the sake of argument you accept that Biden isn't lying and the Chinese government was behind it would you support counter-cyberwarfare targeting Chinese interests and what are appropriate Chinese targets in your view? That's not saying they are guilty, I'm not going that far yet. Instead it's IF they are.
If you think a proven-guilty China should get a pass please explain why.
Did you even read my response?
I said, (for the third time now), if there was evidence, there would have been a response. But there was neither -- just empty claims. In addition, our allies also seemed to be just nodding agreeing with us rather than condemning China which would not have been the case had there been any convincing evidence of the claim. And, apparently they were correct because it later came out that it was actually multiple hackers from around the world.
And, as I also said: there are other examples of U.S claims about China that, when examined, have not been substantiated with evidence. That's not "talking about something else". That's an example of other claims by the U.S. that have no evidence -- just empty claims.
Now if you want to talk about cyber attacks why is it you only make shaky claims about China -- but give Russia who has been attacking us for 5 years now a free ride?
------------------------------------------------
Added: While we are discussing claims unsubstantiated by evidence, today, after 3 months investigation, 4 U.S. intelligence agencies said the virus originated from animals while a fifth stuck to its claim that it came from a lab. Yet Biden still pointed the finger at the lab theory. In response China presented evidence pointing the finger at Ft Detrick: "First, the symptoms of vaping-related lung disease outbreak in Wisconsin
in July 2019 were highly similar with COVID-19. Can this be a reason?
Second,
according to the US NIH website, research has shown evidence of
infection in five states appeared back in December 2019. Can this be a
reason?
Third, US government officials sealed blood samples
collected before January 2, 2020 from further testing on national
security grounds.
Fourth, Florida had published data of 171
early cases occurred in January and February 2020, only for the related
data to be later removed.
Fifth, there were around 200 netizens
from the US or countries connected to the US claiming that they or
others suspected that they were infected with COVID-19 as early as
November 2019.
Sixth, 12 countries including Costa Rica and
Kenya, have publicly identified their COVID-19 "patient Zero" was
imported from the US. "
The truth is: We really need to stop making these silly, unsubstantiated claims. They make us look like fools -- particularly when we get called out for them.
I said, (for the third time now), if there was evidence, there would have been a response.'
Ok George. You already said, and again I quote: "This is so sad...We are apparently taking the same approach to hackers as we took to the Corona Virus: H I D E F R O M I T !" and only play defense. But now you say it's simply proof it didn't happen because we didn't go on offense. LOL Make up your mind.
You won't answer a clearly worded theoretical question because it's China but you'll happily do so if it's Russia we're talking about. Have a great evening, I believe, and others share my view, you're simply trolling us and wasting our time. I'd rather not give you the chance to waste more of mine.
I said, (for the third time now), if there was evidence, there would have been a response.'
Ok George. You already said, and again I quote: "This is so sad...We are apparently taking the same approach to hackers as we took to the Corona Virus: H I D E F R O M I T !" and only play defense. But now you say it's simply proof it didn't happen because we didn't go on offense. LOL Make up your mind.
You won't answer a clearly worded theoretical question because it's China but you'll happily do so if it's Russia we're talking about. Have a great evening, I believe, and others share my view, you're simply trolling us and wasting our time. I'd rather not give you the chance to waste more of mine.
No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that, with China we talk big and strong and tough. But when it comes to showing evidence, there is none -- or it's speculative and very weak as in this case -- until the whole case of false accusations fell apart. Sorry if you can't accept reality.
As for only playing defense: in this case, it was ultimately shown to be multiple hackers around the world. -- but we did nothing to round them up. They're still out there. Again, we played defense: sitting behind our fortress walls telling ourselves: "They can't get in".
And, strange that YOU would bring up Russia: You give a megaphone to false claims about China. But 5 years of proven, well documented Russian attacks you ignore. Why? What's your agenda?
Comments
Maybe third time charm because you still very obviously avoid answering the repeated question.
So George, if for the sake of argument you accept that Biden isn't lying and the Chinese government was behind it would you support counter-cyberwarfare targeting Chinese interests and what are appropriate Chinese targets in your view? That's not saying they are guilty, I'm not going that far yet. Instead it's IF they are.
If you think a proven-guilty China should get a pass please explain why.
Did you even read my response?
"First, the symptoms of vaping-related lung disease outbreak in Wisconsin in July 2019 were highly similar with COVID-19. Can this be a reason?
Second, according to the US NIH website, research has shown evidence of infection in five states appeared back in December 2019. Can this be a reason?
Third, US government officials sealed blood samples collected before January 2, 2020 from further testing on national security grounds.
Fourth, Florida had published data of 171 early cases occurred in January and February 2020, only for the related data to be later removed.
Fifth, there were around 200 netizens from the US or countries connected to the US claiming that they or others suspected that they were infected with COVID-19 as early as November 2019.
Sixth, 12 countries including Costa Rica and Kenya, have publicly identified their COVID-19 "patient Zero" was imported from the US. "
'Did you even read my response?
Ok George. You already said, and again I quote: "This is so sad...We are apparently taking the same approach to hackers as we took to the Corona Virus: H I D E F R O M I T !" and only play defense. But now you say it's simply proof it didn't happen because we didn't go on offense. LOL Make up your mind.
You won't answer a clearly worded theoretical question because it's China but you'll happily do so if it's Russia we're talking about. Have a great evening,
I believe, and others share my view, you're simply trolling us and wasting our time. I'd rather not give you the chance to waste more of mine.