It is amazing how the Left takes over a thread and begins to twist it as posts mount, actually making it seem as if anyone that agrees with the original premise is an idiot. In 11 days we have INCAPACITATED the Iraqis.
We have prevented the destruction of many oil fields, we have killed thousands of Iraq troops, captured about 5,000, essentially removed any and all intelligence capability, cut lines of communication, destroyed FIFTY TO SIXTY percent of the Republican Guards forces around Bagdhad....and that's just the beginning. We are making every attempt to spare civilians and bring humanitarian aid. Our operation is unprecedented in scope and organization.
Posting your bullshit opinion-piece articles won't help. Every single one of them is based on the opinion of pundits or ex-generals with no current intelligence information beyond what you and I have. The last one is the funniest. The reports you link to are totally unsubstantiated...."Rumsfeld underestimated Iraqi forces", "Forces Halted", etc. It's all a crock!!! One must look at the facts we have available. Those facts indicate they have taken over 2/3 of a country in 11 days.....a country the size of California. Now, think about that for a second.
Your opposition to the war has made you blind. And no...you cannot say the same thing about my support for the war. I KNOW there have been difficulties and I KNOW there have been some unexpected resistence points. I also see extremely light overall casualties and overwhelming American military power. For all of the Left's "the American people don't know what a real war is" statements, the people on this board that REALLY are ignorant about how a war works are the ones claiming it isn't going well. Anyone doing so is a sheep.
As of today, I think we have quickly seen any "conventional" means of the Iraq military to fight essentially disappear. They are left with (and willing to use, no surprise) fourth-generation war tactics, a war of attrition. I think it would be naive to think the military hasn't considered this, though I am curious how they plan to fight this in the long-term. I think the answer is in non-military means -- trying to turn the people who did not welcome coalition forces and a new government into supporters of a new constitution and leadership.
I do hope it's a representative government as early as possible, even if they do require UN support for some time. But i'm getting ahead of things now...
" I think the answer is in non-military means -- trying to turn the people who did not welcome coalition forces and a new government into supporters of a new constitution and leadership."
One must look at the facts we have available. Those facts indicate they have taken over 2/3 of a country in 11 days.....a country the size of California. Now, think about that for a second.
A big mouthful of sand and desert so far. When they enter the cities, then we will have a better idea how its going.
Quote:
For all of the Left's "the American people don't know what a real war is" statements, the people on this board that REALLY are ignorant about how a war works are the ones claiming it isn't going well. Anyone doing so is a sheep.
My own view is that it is too early to really know how its going. It's never too early to ask questions about strategy however. Indeed, that's just what a good military commander has to do - anything else would be a betrayal of his troops (and of the civilians whose casualties he is presumably trying to prevent).
My own view is that coalition victory is assured, but I am not certain how soon or at what cost. Do YOU have that knowledge SDW, you big ignorant wolf?
In any case, here are my questions for now:
a) What the heck is happening in Basra? The coalition forces have had it surrounded for a week and were warned of an impending humanitarian disaster. When will they go in and take the city? When most of its citizens are dead? I believe that this is a city of over a million people.
b) What will the occupation of Iraq be like? How many US forces will it take to hold the country? At what point will US forces not have to worry about a gun behind every doorway?
Its ugly....and its not going according to schedule
The outcome is obvious...the Coalition forces are vastly superior, in numbers, training, technology and equipment, and war will at some point be "won", but only in a military sense. The real victory, namely winning the hearts and minds of the people of Iraq (and the rest of the Arab world) will never happen using these methods. Democracy in Iraq....when imposed by a foreign invader...will never work.
Comments
Originally posted by groverat
Poor poor bunge. Beating up on you is so easy I almost feel bad doing it. Almost.
Ah...not bright enough to see the forest for the trees?
Vice for Coalition
It is amazing how the Left takes over a thread and begins to twist it as posts mount, actually making it seem as if anyone that agrees with the original premise is an idiot. In 11 days we have INCAPACITATED the Iraqis.
We have prevented the destruction of many oil fields, we have killed thousands of Iraq troops, captured about 5,000, essentially removed any and all intelligence capability, cut lines of communication, destroyed FIFTY TO SIXTY percent of the Republican Guards forces around Bagdhad....and that's just the beginning. We are making every attempt to spare civilians and bring humanitarian aid. Our operation is unprecedented in scope and organization.
Posting your bullshit opinion-piece articles won't help. Every single one of them is based on the opinion of pundits or ex-generals with no current intelligence information beyond what you and I have. The last one is the funniest. The reports you link to are totally unsubstantiated...."Rumsfeld underestimated Iraqi forces", "Forces Halted", etc. It's all a crock!!! One must look at the facts we have available. Those facts indicate they have taken over 2/3 of a country in 11 days.....a country the size of California. Now, think about that for a second.
Your opposition to the war has made you blind. And no...you cannot say the same thing about my support for the war. I KNOW there have been difficulties and I KNOW there have been some unexpected resistence points. I also see extremely light overall casualties and overwhelming American military power. For all of the Left's "the American people don't know what a real war is" statements, the people on this board that REALLY are ignorant about how a war works are the ones claiming it isn't going well. Anyone doing so is a sheep.
Bunge, you appear to be intentionally decieving people with your factual links...that's your whole response?
I do hope it's a representative government as early as possible, even if they do require UN support for some time. But i'm getting ahead of things now...
--Agreed.
Originally posted by SDW2001
One must look at the facts we have available. Those facts indicate they have taken over 2/3 of a country in 11 days.....a country the size of California. Now, think about that for a second.
A big mouthful of sand and desert so far. When they enter the cities, then we will have a better idea how its going.
For all of the Left's "the American people don't know what a real war is" statements, the people on this board that REALLY are ignorant about how a war works are the ones claiming it isn't going well. Anyone doing so is a sheep.
My own view is that it is too early to really know how its going. It's never too early to ask questions about strategy however. Indeed, that's just what a good military commander has to do - anything else would be a betrayal of his troops (and of the civilians whose casualties he is presumably trying to prevent).
My own view is that coalition victory is assured, but I am not certain how soon or at what cost. Do YOU have that knowledge SDW, you big ignorant wolf?
In any case, here are my questions for now:
a) What the heck is happening in Basra? The coalition forces have had it surrounded for a week and were warned of an impending humanitarian disaster. When will they go in and take the city? When most of its citizens are dead? I believe that this is a city of over a million people.
b) What will the occupation of Iraq be like? How many US forces will it take to hold the country? At what point will US forces not have to worry about a gun behind every doorway?
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/...962644828.html
The supply lines are being stretched to the limit caused by the quick push through tthe desert and ambushes etc:
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click...7B262&set_id=1
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../iraq_pause_dc
We are being looked at, not as liberators, but as an invader. Washington even assured Israel that thgis war would be over in 5 days.
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click...7B262&set_id=1
Bush ignored skeptics from the State Dept. and Intelligence communities re. difficulty of overthrowing Saddam.
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercuryne...printstory.jsp
Basra under British control? Uh, no.
http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk03282003.html
Street fighting promised in Baghdad. Snipers and urban guerilla action..as in Beirut....
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/reu...30327_604.html
kamikaze style resistance:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...&e=12&ncid=716
Its ugly....and its not going according to schedule
Originally posted by mrmister
Bunge, you appear to be intentionally decieving people with your factual links.
How so?
Originally posted by sammi jo
How well/badly is the war going? Not well enough obviously...Rumsfeld is in some hot water about the number of troops required.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/...962644828.html
The supply lines are being stretched to the limit caused by the quick push through tthe desert and ambushes etc:
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click...7B262&set_id=1
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../iraq_pause_dc
We are being looked at, not as liberators, but as an invader. Washington even assured Israel that thgis war would be over in 5 days.
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click...7B262&set_id=1
Bush ignored skeptics from the State Dept. and Intelligence communities re. difficulty of overthrowing Saddam.
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercuryne...printstory.jsp
Basra under British control? Uh, no.
http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk03282003.html
Street fighting promised in Baghdad. Snipers and urban guerilla action..as in Beirut....
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/reu...30327_604.html
kamikaze style resistance:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...&e=12&ncid=716
Its ugly....and its not going according to schedule
The outcome is obvious...the Coalition forces are vastly superior, in numbers, training, technology and equipment, and war will at some point be "won", but only in a military sense. The real victory, namely winning the hearts and minds of the people of Iraq (and the rest of the Arab world) will never happen using these methods. Democracy in Iraq....when imposed by a foreign invader...will never work.
Originally posted by sammi jo
The real victory, namely winning the hearts and minds of the people of Iraq (and the rest of the Arab world) will never happen using these methods.
I hope you're wrong.
Originally posted by bunge
I hope you're wrong.
That's really quite touching. Oh, how I hope....
I admit that my support of this war rests on hopes like this, or rather what they represent. Of course, I hope it works more in the other direction.
I'd like to kill you all.
ALLAH AKBAR!
Originally posted by groverat
One side likes to take one negative story and act like this war is Vietnam II.
No, most don't. Most think the war will be over in quite a short time.
The Jihad remains in place.
Originally posted by groverat
I still want to kill you all.
The Jihad remains in place.
you probably mean fatwah...
LINK
That's propaganda.
There are lies, damned lies and then there's anything that's positive about America.