When I was young we were locked in an ideologic battle with the Soviet Union where they were trying to propagate their system and we were trying to propagate ours. And we were inundated with pro-democracy/capitalist propaganda -- and a ton of anti-communist propaganda.
And I believed every word of it.
But, what confused me was why so many countries (especially poor ones) chose Communism -- Cuba is the most obvious example but far from the only one.
Later, it dawned on me that Communism simply met their particular needs better.
Many had been abused by colonialists and unscrupulous capitalists taking advantage of a poor people with a corrupt government. Eventually, we even passed laws (like anti-bribery) against our own corporations while operating overseas.
Oh boy. Tell me...did it occur to you that Communists are tyrants who seize power, murder their opposition and brutally oppress the population? People don't "choose" to live under tyranny. ... according to capitalist ideology and propaganda
Finished that for you....
The truth is: neither is perfect -- each has strengths and weaknesses. And, to be successful over time, both rely on intelligent leadership who puts the interests of the country and its people first -- and is not bound by either ideology or theology. Instead, they just do the right thing for country and its people.
Just, wow. Tell that to the 100 million people Communism has killed.
When I was young we were locked in an ideologic battle with the Soviet Union where they were trying to propagate their system and we were trying to propagate ours. And we were inundated with pro-democracy/capitalist propaganda -- and a ton of anti-communist propaganda.
And I believed every word of it.
But, what confused me was why so many countries (especially poor ones) chose Communism -- Cuba is the most obvious example but far from the only one.
Later, it dawned on me that Communism simply met their particular needs better.
Many had been abused by colonialists and unscrupulous capitalists taking advantage of a poor people with a corrupt government. Eventually, we even passed laws (like anti-bribery) against our own corporations while operating overseas.
Oh boy. Tell me...did it occur to you that Communists are tyrants who seize power, murder their opposition and brutally oppress the population? People don't "choose" to live under tyranny. Cuba isn't a Communist shithole because Exxon Mobile bribed people.
This is western propaganda. You cannot explain why CCP tried so hard that no single domestic covid infection and no one died in one year. China haters branded this as CCP lying as a conveniently excuse to look at the facts. My thesis of what are communism, socialism, and capitalism explains this perfectly.
Question... are you kidding? I'm serious. Because if you believe that China is telling the truth, I question either your intelligence or your motives.
Ok, I'm going to ignore the rstuff about Canada, the UK, and the Nordic countries because you clearly have your own hard-formed opinions and think a handful of extreme outlier right-wing news stories are in some way symptomatic of big problems, when in reality they're outliers. The fact that you've inserted Black Lives Matter into the chat completely unprovoked tells me that we're not going to have a useful conversation there.
If you choose not to engage, that's fine. But these stories are not outliers or right-wing lunacy. Let me give you another example: Australia and New Zealand. Looks at what is going on wrt coronavirus in those countries. NZ locked down because of one confirmed case. Australia has practically turned back into a prison colony despite low deaths and hospitalizations, and no evidence lockdowns really work. This is added the very real examples in Canada, the UK and others of government putting pastors in jail, changing people with hate speech crimes, etc. All I'm saying is it's a real problem, and that I don't want it to come here.
I will say that the people who demand the freedom to make their own decisions are very often those who make the wrong ones, and other people are made to suffer the consequences of their actions. And yes, I think on matters of national consequence there is a role for central authority in managing crises, which can involve temporary or permanent curtailing of some freedoms, and I'm ok with that. If I never see a handgun in my life I'll be all the happier for it.
In theory, I don't disagree. But in practice, no. I was all for a two-week shutdown and I was OK with a 30-45 day shutdown. We didn't know enough about the virus yet, and it was a true emergency. But after Spring of 2020, it was clear...the virus was being used to implement tyranny. There is no justification for the lunacy that is happening right now wrt the mitigation efforts. They often don't even make scientific sense. Lockdowns don't work. Masks have extremely limited efficacy. As for guns? I'm not a gun guy, but I want the right to become one.
The definition of words, which you are hanging much of your argument on, is an academic matter. The way they are used in the real world, which you also seem to take issue with, is a real world matter. I'm not really sure what angle you think you have here; your single definition of socialism is the one that is incorrect, from both perspectives.Ok, maybe you're not screaming, but you aren't making a particularly cogent argument and you are saying things like "Tyranny, period" and saying that people are lying which isn't exactly a meditative stance. And the crux of the point seems to be that they understand what Democratic Socialism is, and you understand what Democratic Socialism is too, only you take issue with it being labelled as Socialism, despite it being called that by described Democratic Socialists. It seems a very academic issue.
To be clear, I'm not opposed to having an academic debate. I have a post-graduate level education, after all. My concern is that many "Democratic Socialists" (i.e. Scandinavia model) are using that term to push us to towards actual, tyrannical socialism. And of course, I oppose their policies, which regardless of name or even Constitutionality are insane in my view.
You may be right that socially interventionist policies would not work as well in the US, I'll make no comment on that.
OK.
Ok, well this is just regular cornbread paranoia. A public option for healthcare is not tyranny, nor is a national living wage, or background checks on gun control, or any of the other things that get called both socialism and tyranny routinely by members of the Republican Party and right wing media (it's not just the Democrats who are liars, or ignoramuses, in your terms). You're extrapolating from government forming a slightly bigger society to a societal takeover, and that's just not how these things have ever worked. And as you already said, I doubt a totalitarian socialism would even be workable in the USA. In the unlikely event it ever did happen it'd collapse in a year or two.
1. I don't know that a public option is tyranny, but I know it will lead to nationalized/government healthcare. The private market won't be able to exist if it competes against the government at this level. It will lead reduced quality of care and will do nothing to lower costs.
2. What is a national living wage? What is a living wage, at all? Is it necessary when there is a massive labor shortage at the moment, with McDonald's hiring 14 and 15 years olds a $15 an hour? The government mandating a "living wage" is a terrible idea.
3. We have background checks, and while I generally support them, I question their efficacy. I oppose any further restrictions not just on Constitutional grounds, but efficacy grounds. There are things we could do, like banning private sales or requiring checks from non FFL dealers (e.g. a father to son sale, neighbor, etc.). But there's no evidence this would reduce gun crime or death rates. Is it socialism? It's certainly a loss of liberty to pass more restrictions.
I don't really understand why so much of the USA, the richest, most powerful country in the world is so afraid so much of the time. I sometimes wonder if it's because you guys were born in glorious revolution, that you'll always be scarred with the memories of revolution, or if the American Dream is really just a delusional positive spin on a much deeper American Fear that you're paralysed to do anything about. Other western countries seem to have a much better grounding of their place in the world, and don't indulge in nearly as much of this hysteria. I don't think I even heard the word tyranny outside of a historical context until I started being interested in American politics, and it's absolutely everywhere. It's nuts.
Yeah, we Americans take our freedom pretty seriously. We tend to look for threats to our freedom and oppose them. If this is "fear." then it's usually justified and based on an understanding of freedom's loss throughout history.
When I was young we were locked in an ideologic battle with the Soviet Union where they were trying to propagate their system and we were trying to propagate ours. And we were inundated with pro-democracy/capitalist propaganda -- and a ton of anti-communist propaganda.
And I believed every word of it.
But, what confused me was why so many countries (especially poor ones) chose Communism -- Cuba is the most obvious example but far from the only one.
Later, it dawned on me that Communism simply met their particular needs better.
Many had been abused by colonialists and unscrupulous capitalists taking advantage of a poor people with a corrupt government. Eventually, we even passed laws (like anti-bribery) against our own corporations while operating overseas.
Oh boy. Tell me...did it occur to you that Communists are tyrants who seize power, murder their opposition and brutally oppress the population? People don't "choose" to live under tyranny. Cuba isn't a Communist shithole because Exxon Mobile bribed people.
This is western propaganda. You cannot explain why CCP tried so hard that no single domestic covid infection and no one died in one year. China haters branded this as CCP lying as a conveniently excuse to look at the facts. My thesis of what are communism, socialism, and capitalism explains this perfectly.
Question... are you kidding? I'm serious. Because if you believe that China is telling the truth, I question either your intelligence or your motives.
Yes, I believe it. Only intelligent people can understand my reasoning. CCP has so many adversaries inside and outside. They watch every detail of CCP. They could find out in Nov, 2019, parking lot of Wuhan lab suddenly has less cars. They could find out three employees became sick at the same time. And many other things. This is proof that CCP is being watched for every detail. The logic deduction is if CCP lied about the infection or death numbers, these adversaries will already dig out the lies. The conclusion is CCP gave correct numbers.
When I was young we were locked in an ideologic battle with the Soviet Union where they were trying to propagate their system and we were trying to propagate ours. And we were inundated with pro-democracy/capitalist propaganda -- and a ton of anti-communist propaganda.
And I believed every word of it.
But, what confused me was why so many countries (especially poor ones) chose Communism -- Cuba is the most obvious example but far from the only one.
Later, it dawned on me that Communism simply met their particular needs better.
Many had been abused by colonialists and unscrupulous capitalists taking advantage of a poor people with a corrupt government. Eventually, we even passed laws (like anti-bribery) against our own corporations while operating overseas.
Oh boy. Tell me...did it occur to you that Communists are tyrants who seize power, murder their opposition and brutally oppress the population? People don't "choose" to live under tyranny. Cuba isn't a Communist shithole because Exxon Mobile bribed people.
This is western propaganda. You cannot explain why CCP tried so hard that no single domestic covid infection and no one died in one year. China haters branded this as CCP lying as a conveniently excuse to look at the facts. My thesis of what are communism, socialism, and capitalism explains this perfectly.
Question... are you kidding? I'm serious. Because if you believe that China is telling the truth, I question either your intelligence or your motives.
Yes, I believe it. Only intelligent people can understand my reasoning. CCP has so many adversaries inside and outside. They watch every detail of CCP. They could find out in Nov, 2019, parking lot of Wuhan lab suddenly has less cars. They could find out three employees became sick at the same time. And many other things. This is proof that CCP is being watched for every detail. The logic deduction is if CCP lied about the infection or death numbers, these adversaries will already dig out the lies. The conclusion is CCP gave correct numbers.
If you actually believe the CCP because you think their "adversaries" will tell us the truth, the only response is that I think you're out of your freakin' mind.
When I was young we were locked in an ideologic battle with the Soviet Union where they were trying to propagate their system and we were trying to propagate ours. And we were inundated with pro-democracy/capitalist propaganda -- and a ton of anti-communist propaganda.
And I believed every word of it.
But, what confused me was why so many countries (especially poor ones) chose Communism -- Cuba is the most obvious example but far from the only one.
Later, it dawned on me that Communism simply met their particular needs better.
Many had been abused by colonialists and unscrupulous capitalists taking advantage of a poor people with a corrupt government. Eventually, we even passed laws (like anti-bribery) against our own corporations while operating overseas.
Oh boy. Tell me...did it occur to you that Communists are tyrants who seize power, murder their opposition and brutally oppress the population? People don't "choose" to live under tyranny. Cuba isn't a Communist shithole because Exxon Mobile bribed people.
This is western propaganda. You cannot explain why CCP tried so hard that no single domestic covid infection and no one died in one year. China haters branded this as CCP lying as a conveniently excuse to look at the facts. My thesis of what are communism, socialism, and capitalism explains this perfectly.
Chinese pupils are returning to school with new textbooks peppered with "Xi Jinping thought", as the Communist Party aims to extend his personality cult to children as young as seven and rear a new generation of patriots.
How about you, waveparticle, are you keeping up with your Xi Jinping thought studies?
And here we want to teach Critical Race Theory -- or, its opposite and white wash over the truth of our genocides and racial oppression -- and paint ourselves as the "Good Guys in the white hat".
We condemn the Taliban the for imposing their religion on women -- while Texas so called "Christians" just did the same -- and our Supreme Court just looked the other way.
So what part of Xi Jinping, authoritarian, are you unable or unwilling to understand?
Comparing an array of expressions by U.S. citizens, groups, and parties, as you have done, is not in any way equivalent to the singular power of an authoritarian, Xi Jinping, in control of the PRC, CPC, and PLA.
George and your vocabulary don't have militarism. This news explains it very well. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dems-ranks-gop-increase-defense-spending Americans have long been brainwashed with the vocabulary of adversary. "Without additional resources, we will lose another generation of shipbuilding in this country, and we will be less prepared to defend both the U.S. and our allies’ interests," House Armed Services Committee vice chair Elaine Luria, a Democrat who voted in favor of the amendment, said earlier this week. "We cannot afford to cut corners and play politics with our national security," Rogers said about his amendment earlier this week. "President Biden’s proposed defense budget for FY22 was wholly inadequate — leaving our men in women in uniform in a vulnerable position and projected weakness to our adversaries."
This is how brainwashing works. Taliban has long been accused of being terrorists for harboring Bin Laden. Last week a NBC in an interview of the Taliban leader, he denies Bin Laden plotted the 911 attack. After 20 years? I watched Bin Laden talks right after the 911 attack. He denied he plotted the attack. Yet this video and NBC interview have been ignored by the people who have influence of American public opinion.
For the record, Texan's voted for the same legislators that wrote and signed that legislation. I may disagree with that, and the constitutionality of it, and the gerrymandering that allowed it, and the voter suppression efforts involved, but none of that is comparable to Xi Jinping's singular control of the PRC.
"White House is concerned about imminent mortar attacks or suicide bombers targeting north-facing gates at the Austin–Bergstrom International Airport during the massive airlift of women out of Texas, sources say." /s
The rest of the U.S., and the world, have some economic power over the State of Texas, to pressure legislators to reverse the legislation. Whether this happens at a large scale, is unknown. It may have the same effect as trade bans based on the PRC's human rights violations, which is to say, nothing, but there surely will be economic impacts, short and long term, either way.
BOYCOTT Beijing Winter Olympic Games 2022!!
You failed to defend this abortion law is not authoritative. Texas Republicans got control of the legislation by maybe 55% or 60% margin. Yet they are able to pass a law that is objected to by 40% or 45% of the population. And you think this is not authoritative. I cannot imagine majority of Texas women is for this law that infringes on their freedom.
You are not Chinese and I don't live in China, why do you care so much of what Xi did that has no effect on Americans?
You fail to understand; pro choice supporters do have options to change Texas law in the future, and while it will certainly be difficult, it won't be impossible.
I doubt that Xi Jinping has concerns about maintaining his power; the benefit of being a dictator:
After five years of relentless political purges and arrests, few harbour any illusions about Xi’s authoritarian inclinations. China’s 64-year-old leader has waged war on dissenters, both inside and outside the Communist party, in a drive to establish total control, crushing civil society and jailing rivals to ensure his coronation as China’s most powerful leader since Mao at last year’s party congress.
Even so, for those who witnessed and suffered the excesses of Mao’s megalomania, Xi’s power grab – which paves the way for him to lead China well into the 2030s – has proved a step too far, leaving them fearful their country is slipping back towards its tumultuous past.
Feel free to defend Xi...
My biggest question is you are an American, I do not live in China, why do you care what Xi did to Chinese people?
Simple.
The PRC's authoritarianism is a threat to the world's rules of order. That authoritarianism should be resisted by the West.
News at 11:00.
The U.S. public is solidly in support of U.S. forces defending Taiwan.
The American public supports a range of US policies in support of Taiwan. Majorities favor US recognition of Taiwan as an independent country (69%), supporting its inclusion in international organizations (65%), and signing a US-Taiwan free trade agreement (57%).
A slimmer majority (53%) support the United States' signing a formal alliance with Taiwan, and a plurality (46%) favor explicitly committing to defend Taiwan if China invades.
When asked about a range of potential scenarios, just over half of Americans (52%) favor using US troops to defend if China were to invade the island. This is the highest level ever recorded in the Council’s surveys dating back to 1982, when the question was first asked.
Republicans (60%) are more likely to support sending US troops to Taiwan’s defense than Democrats (50%) or Independents (49%) – see appendix for more information on partisan divides and Taiwan.
At the same time, Americans are divided over whether the United States should (50%) or should not (47%) sell arms and military equipment to Taiwan.
Distrust of China is a significant factor in US public support for Taiwan: while most Americans see Taiwan as an ally (30%) or necessary partner (30%), most see China as a rival (32%) or an adversary (29%).
I'm guessing that the U.S. public is not a fan of Xi Jinping's authoritarianism, excepting George of course.
I'm a fan of doing the right thing. You advocate hatred other cultures.
The only threat to "world order" is your hatred of other cultures. The threat is not Xi -- but you and your hatred. It is the same kind of irrational hatred that caused us to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
I have long concluded the US hatred toward China is a cultural thing. When Marco Polo travelled to China during the Mongol dynasty, China is more advanced than West. But after Renaissance and Industrial Revolution western world quickly overtook China to become the most advance culture. The essence of this culture is freedom which spawned innovations. Thus the western world cannot give up freedom and tried to defend it vigorously to the extreme that hate any culture that curtail freedom.
You and TMay is born out of this culture. This is evident that you seem to be able to discuss with him much better than I. You can elucidate your thinking more clearly that he can understand.
When I was young we were locked in an ideologic battle with the Soviet Union where they were trying to propagate their system and we were trying to propagate ours. And we were inundated with pro-democracy/capitalist propaganda -- and a ton of anti-communist propaganda.
And I believed every word of it.
But, what confused me was why so many countries (especially poor ones) chose Communism -- Cuba is the most obvious example but far from the only one.
Later, it dawned on me that Communism simply met their particular needs better.
Many had been abused by colonialists and unscrupulous capitalists taking advantage of a poor people with a corrupt government. Eventually, we even passed laws (like anti-bribery) against our own corporations while operating overseas.
Oh boy. Tell me...did it occur to you that Communists are tyrants who seize power, murder their opposition and brutally oppress the population? People don't "choose" to live under tyranny. Cuba isn't a Communist shithole because Exxon Mobile bribed people.
This is western propaganda. You cannot explain why CCP tried so hard that no single domestic covid infection and no one died in one year. China haters branded this as CCP lying as a conveniently excuse to look at the facts. My thesis of what are communism, socialism, and capitalism explains this perfectly.
Question... are you kidding? I'm serious. Because if you believe that China is telling the truth, I question either your intelligence or your motives.
Yes, I believe it. Only intelligent people can understand my reasoning. CCP has so many adversaries inside and outside. They watch every detail of CCP. They could find out in Nov, 2019, parking lot of Wuhan lab suddenly has less cars. They could find out three employees became sick at the same time. And many other things. This is proof that CCP is being watched for every detail. The logic deduction is if CCP lied about the infection or death numbers, these adversaries will already dig out the lies. The conclusion is CCP gave correct numbers.
If you actually believe the CCP because you think their "adversaries" will tell us the truth, the only response is that I think you're out of your freakin' mind.
It is your responsibility to show CCP lied. You don't seem to be able to grasp this fundamental principle.
Ok, I'm going to ignore the rstuff about Canada, the UK, and the Nordic countries because you clearly have your own hard-formed opinions and think a handful of extreme outlier right-wing news stories are in some way symptomatic of big problems, when in reality they're outliers. The fact that you've inserted Black Lives Matter into the chat completely unprovoked tells me that we're not going to have a useful conversation there.
If you choose not to engage, that's fine. But these stories are not outliers or right-wing lunacy. Let me give you another example: Australia and New Zealand. Looks at what is going on wrt coronavirus in those countries. NZ locked down because of one confirmed case. Australia has practically turned back into a prison colony despite low deaths and hospitalizations, and no evidence lockdowns really work. This is added the very real examples in Canada, the UK and others of government putting pastors in jail, changing people with hate speech crimes, etc. All I'm saying is it's a real problem, and that I don't want it to come here.
Sure, no evidence that lockdowns work, except that New Zealand has had one confirmed case, and both it and Australia are a case study in how to manage a pandemic.
Do you even realise how much you're contracting yourself?
I will say that the people who demand the freedom to make their own decisions are very often those who make the wrong ones, and other people are made to suffer the consequences of their actions. And yes, I think on matters of national consequence there is a role for central authority in managing crises, which can involve temporary or permanent curtailing of some freedoms, and I'm ok with that. If I never see a handgun in my life I'll be all the happier for it.
In theory, I don't disagree. But in practice, no. I was all for a two-week shutdown and I was OK with a 30-45 day shutdown. We didn't know enough about the virus yet, and it was a true emergency. But after Spring of 2020, it was clear...the virus was being used to implement tyranny. There is no justification for the lunacy that is happening right now wrt the mitigation efforts. They often don't even make scientific sense. Lockdowns don't work. Masks have extremely limited efficacy. As for guns? I'm not a gun guy, but I want the right to become one.
Lockdowns absolutely work, pretty much every lockdown has been followed by a precipitous drop in cases. It's both common sense and empirically observable; of course they work! Masks are not a cure-all, but they definitely have efficacy.
And I don't want the right to own a gun, nor for the widespread right for anyone to own gun. No one that I want to share airspace with needs that.
The definition of words, which you are hanging much of your argument on, is an academic matter. The way they are used in the real world, which you also seem to take issue with, is a real world matter. I'm not really sure what angle you think you have here; your single definition of socialism is the one that is incorrect, from both perspectives.Ok, maybe you're not screaming, but you aren't making a particularly cogent argument and you are saying things like "Tyranny, period" and saying that people are lying which isn't exactly a meditative stance. And the crux of the point seems to be that they understand what Democratic Socialism is, and you understand what Democratic Socialism is too, only you take issue with it being labelled as Socialism, despite it being called that by described Democratic Socialists. It seems a very academic issue.
To be clear, I'm not opposed to having an academic debate. I have a post-graduate level education, after all. My concern is that many "Democratic Socialists" (i.e. Scandinavia model) are using that term to push us to towards actual, tyrannical socialism. And of course, I oppose their policies, which regardless of name or even Constitutionality are insane in my view.
Paranoiac nonsense, in my opinion. What Democratic Socialists are you even accusing of being Stalinists in disguise?
Ok, well this is just regular cornbread paranoia. A public option for healthcare is not tyranny, nor is a national living wage, or background checks on gun control, or any of the other things that get called both socialism and tyranny routinely by members of the Republican Party and right wing media (it's not just the Democrats who are liars, or ignoramuses, in your terms). You're extrapolating from government forming a slightly bigger society to a societal takeover, and that's just not how these things have ever worked. And as you already said, I doubt a totalitarian socialism would even be workable in the USA. In the unlikely event it ever did happen it'd collapse in a year or two.
1. I don't know that a public option is tyranny, but I know it will lead to nationalized/government healthcare. The private market won't be able to exist if it competes against the government at this level. It will lead reduced quality of care and will do nothing to lower costs.
Little evidence for that. Many countries operate both public and private healthcare options. Even if it does, it's not tyranny.
2. What is a national living wage? What is a living wage, at all? Is it necessary when there is a massive labor shortage at the moment, with McDonald's hiring 14 and 15 years olds a $15 an hour? The government mandating a "living wage" is a terrible idea.
I don't agree it's a terrible idea, but even if it is, it's not tyranny.
3. We have background checks, and while I generally support them, I question their efficacy. I oppose any further restrictions not just on Constitutional grounds, but efficacy grounds. There are things we could do, like banning private sales or requiring checks from non FFL dealers (e.g. a father to son sale, neighbor, etc.). But there's no evidence this would reduce gun crime or death rates. Is it socialism? It's certainly a loss of liberty to pass more restrictions.
You oppose background and mental health checks on efficacy grounds? If so, I think you're actually insane; there is an avalanche of evidence that such measures have meaningful impact. And I don't disagree with you that banning private sales would also be very helpful. But neither policy would be tyranny.
Tyranny is not any slight restriction of freedom for common social good, that's an extreme position.
I don't really understand why so much of the USA, the richest, most powerful country in the world is so afraid so much of the time. I sometimes wonder if it's because you guys were born in glorious revolution, that you'll always be scarred with the memories of revolution, or if the American Dream is really just a delusional positive spin on a much deeper American Fear that you're paralysed to do anything about. Other western countries seem to have a much better grounding of their place in the world, and don't indulge in nearly as much of this hysteria. I don't think I even heard the word tyranny outside of a historical context until I started being interested in American politics, and it's absolutely everywhere. It's nuts.
Yeah, we Americans take our freedom pretty seriously. We tend to look for threats to our freedom and oppose them. If this is "fear." then it's usually justified and based on an understanding of freedom's loss throughout history.
If you genuinely believe all the tyranny stuff then I can see how that'd make sense to you. But in my opinion you and so many of your people built this entire worldview on a pile of hysterical nonsense. I just hope whatever education or media environment that has fed this to you is on the way out, because it's very unhealthy.
When I was young we were locked in an ideologic battle with the Soviet Union where they were trying to propagate their system and we were trying to propagate ours. And we were inundated with pro-democracy/capitalist propaganda -- and a ton of anti-communist propaganda.
And I believed every word of it.
But, what confused me was why so many countries (especially poor ones) chose Communism -- Cuba is the most obvious example but far from the only one.
Later, it dawned on me that Communism simply met their particular needs better.
Many had been abused by colonialists and unscrupulous capitalists taking advantage of a poor people with a corrupt government. Eventually, we even passed laws (like anti-bribery) against our own corporations while operating overseas.
Oh boy. Tell me...did it occur to you that Communists are tyrants who seize power, murder their opposition and brutally oppress the population? People don't "choose" to live under tyranny. Cuba isn't a Communist shithole because Exxon Mobile bribed people.
This is western propaganda. You cannot explain why CCP tried so hard that no single domestic covid infection and no one died in one year. China haters branded this as CCP lying as a conveniently excuse to look at the facts. My thesis of what are communism, socialism, and capitalism explains this perfectly.
Chinese pupils are returning to school with new textbooks peppered with "Xi Jinping thought", as the Communist Party aims to extend his personality cult to children as young as seven and rear a new generation of patriots.
How about you, waveparticle, are you keeping up with your Xi Jinping thought studies?
And here we want to teach Critical Race Theory -- or, its opposite and white wash over the truth of our genocides and racial oppression -- and paint ourselves as the "Good Guys in the white hat".
We condemn the Taliban the for imposing their religion on women -- while Texas so called "Christians" just did the same -- and our Supreme Court just looked the other way.
So what part of Xi Jinping, authoritarian, are you unable or unwilling to understand?
Comparing an array of expressions by U.S. citizens, groups, and parties, as you have done, is not in any way equivalent to the singular power of an authoritarian, Xi Jinping, in control of the PRC, CPC, and PLA.
George and your vocabulary don't have militarism. This news explains it very well. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dems-ranks-gop-increase-defense-spending Americans have long been brainwashed with the vocabulary of adversary. "Without additional resources, we will lose another generation of shipbuilding in this country, and we will be less prepared to defend both the U.S. and our allies’ interests," House Armed Services Committee vice chair Elaine Luria, a Democrat who voted in favor of the amendment, said earlier this week. "We cannot afford to cut corners and play politics with our national security," Rogers said about his amendment earlier this week. "President Biden’s proposed defense budget for FY22 was wholly inadequate — leaving our men in women in uniform in a vulnerable position and projected weakness to our adversaries."
This is how brainwashing works. Taliban has long been accused of being terrorists for harboring Bin Laden. Last week a NBC in an interview of the Taliban leader, he denies Bin Laden plotted the 911 attack. After 20 years? I watched Bin Laden talks right after the 911 attack. He denied he plotted the attack. Yet this video and NBC interview have been ignored by the people who have influence of American public opinion.
For the record, Texan's voted for the same legislators that wrote and signed that legislation. I may disagree with that, and the constitutionality of it, and the gerrymandering that allowed it, and the voter suppression efforts involved, but none of that is comparable to Xi Jinping's singular control of the PRC.
"White House is concerned about imminent mortar attacks or suicide bombers targeting north-facing gates at the Austin–Bergstrom International Airport during the massive airlift of women out of Texas, sources say." /s
The rest of the U.S., and the world, have some economic power over the State of Texas, to pressure legislators to reverse the legislation. Whether this happens at a large scale, is unknown. It may have the same effect as trade bans based on the PRC's human rights violations, which is to say, nothing, but there surely will be economic impacts, short and long term, either way.
BOYCOTT Beijing Winter Olympic Games 2022!!
You failed to defend this abortion law is not authoritative. Texas Republicans got control of the legislation by maybe 55% or 60% margin. Yet they are able to pass a law that is objected to by 40% or 45% of the population. And you think this is not authoritative. I cannot imagine majority of Texas women is for this law that infringes on their freedom.
You are not Chinese and I don't live in China, why do you care so much of what Xi did that has no effect on Americans?
You fail to understand; pro choice supporters do have options to change Texas law in the future, and while it will certainly be difficult, it won't be impossible.
I doubt that Xi Jinping has concerns about maintaining his power; the benefit of being a dictator:
After five years of relentless political purges and arrests, few harbour any illusions about Xi’s authoritarian inclinations. China’s 64-year-old leader has waged war on dissenters, both inside and outside the Communist party, in a drive to establish total control, crushing civil society and jailing rivals to ensure his coronation as China’s most powerful leader since Mao at last year’s party congress.
Even so, for those who witnessed and suffered the excesses of Mao’s megalomania, Xi’s power grab – which paves the way for him to lead China well into the 2030s – has proved a step too far, leaving them fearful their country is slipping back towards its tumultuous past.
Feel free to defend Xi...
My biggest question is you are an American, I do not live in China, why do you care what Xi did to Chinese people?
Simple.
The PRC's authoritarianism is a threat to the world's rules of order. That authoritarianism should be resisted by the West.
News at 11:00.
The U.S. public is solidly in support of U.S. forces defending Taiwan.
The American public supports a range of US policies in support of Taiwan. Majorities favor US recognition of Taiwan as an independent country (69%), supporting its inclusion in international organizations (65%), and signing a US-Taiwan free trade agreement (57%).
A slimmer majority (53%) support the United States' signing a formal alliance with Taiwan, and a plurality (46%) favor explicitly committing to defend Taiwan if China invades.
When asked about a range of potential scenarios, just over half of Americans (52%) favor using US troops to defend if China were to invade the island. This is the highest level ever recorded in the Council’s surveys dating back to 1982, when the question was first asked.
Republicans (60%) are more likely to support sending US troops to Taiwan’s defense than Democrats (50%) or Independents (49%) – see appendix for more information on partisan divides and Taiwan.
At the same time, Americans are divided over whether the United States should (50%) or should not (47%) sell arms and military equipment to Taiwan.
Distrust of China is a significant factor in US public support for Taiwan: while most Americans see Taiwan as an ally (30%) or necessary partner (30%), most see China as a rival (32%) or an adversary (29%).
I'm guessing that the U.S. public is not a fan of Xi Jinping's authoritarianism, excepting George of course.
I'm a fan of doing the right thing. You advocate hatred other cultures.
The only threat to "world order" is your hatred of other cultures. The threat is not Xi -- but you and your hatred. It is the same kind of irrational hatred that caused us to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
When I was young we were locked in an ideologic battle with the Soviet Union where they were trying to propagate their system and we were trying to propagate ours. And we were inundated with pro-democracy/capitalist propaganda -- and a ton of anti-communist propaganda.
And I believed every word of it.
But, what confused me was why so many countries (especially poor ones) chose Communism -- Cuba is the most obvious example but far from the only one.
Later, it dawned on me that Communism simply met their particular needs better.
Many had been abused by colonialists and unscrupulous capitalists taking advantage of a poor people with a corrupt government. Eventually, we even passed laws (like anti-bribery) against our own corporations while operating overseas.
Oh boy. Tell me...did it occur to you that Communists are tyrants who seize power, murder their opposition and brutally oppress the population? People don't "choose" to live under tyranny. ... according to capitalist ideology and propaganda
Finished that for you....
The truth is: neither is perfect -- each has strengths and weaknesses. And, to be successful over time, both rely on intelligent leadership who puts the interests of the country and its people first -- and is not bound by either ideology or theology. Instead, they just do the right thing for country and its people.
Just, wow. Tell that to the 100 million people Communism has killed.
How about you tell that to the 1/4 million Afghans that we killed? Or even the 6 kids we murdered last week.
When I was young we were locked in an ideologic battle with the Soviet Union where they were trying to propagate their system and we were trying to propagate ours. And we were inundated with pro-democracy/capitalist propaganda -- and a ton of anti-communist propaganda.
And I believed every word of it.
But, what confused me was why so many countries (especially poor ones) chose Communism -- Cuba is the most obvious example but far from the only one.
Later, it dawned on me that Communism simply met their particular needs better.
Many had been abused by colonialists and unscrupulous capitalists taking advantage of a poor people with a corrupt government. Eventually, we even passed laws (like anti-bribery) against our own corporations while operating overseas.
Oh boy. Tell me...did it occur to you that Communists are tyrants who seize power, murder their opposition and brutally oppress the population? People don't "choose" to live under tyranny. Cuba isn't a Communist shithole because Exxon Mobile bribed people.
This is western propaganda. You cannot explain why CCP tried so hard that no single domestic covid infection and no one died in one year. China haters branded this as CCP lying as a conveniently excuse to look at the facts. My thesis of what are communism, socialism, and capitalism explains this perfectly.
Question... are you kidding? I'm serious. Because if you believe that China is telling the truth, I question either your intelligence or your motives.
So, you have no rebuttal just the standard: "We think they are bad guys and we are the good guys. So they must have lied about doing something good -- otherwise my whole belief system crumbles and we look like fools."
When I was young we were locked in an ideologic battle with the Soviet Union where they were trying to propagate their system and we were trying to propagate ours. And we were inundated with pro-democracy/capitalist propaganda -- and a ton of anti-communist propaganda.
And I believed every word of it.
But, what confused me was why so many countries (especially poor ones) chose Communism -- Cuba is the most obvious example but far from the only one.
Later, it dawned on me that Communism simply met their particular needs better.
Many had been abused by colonialists and unscrupulous capitalists taking advantage of a poor people with a corrupt government. Eventually, we even passed laws (like anti-bribery) against our own corporations while operating overseas.
Oh boy. Tell me...did it occur to you that Communists are tyrants who seize power, murder their opposition and brutally oppress the population? People don't "choose" to live under tyranny. Cuba isn't a Communist shithole because Exxon Mobile bribed people.
This is western propaganda. You cannot explain why CCP tried so hard that no single domestic covid infection and no one died in one year. China haters branded this as CCP lying as a conveniently excuse to look at the facts. My thesis of what are communism, socialism, and capitalism explains this perfectly.
Question... are you kidding? I'm serious. Because if you believe that China is telling the truth, I question either your intelligence or your motives.
Yes, I believe it. Only intelligent people can understand my reasoning. CCP has so many adversaries inside and outside. They watch every detail of CCP. They could find out in Nov, 2019, parking lot of Wuhan lab suddenly has less cars. They could find out three employees became sick at the same time. And many other things. This is proof that CCP is being watched for every detail. The logic deduction is if CCP lied about the infection or death numbers, these adversaries will already dig out the lies. The conclusion is CCP gave correct numbers.
If you actually believe the CCP because you think their "adversaries" will tell us the truth, the only response is that I think you're out of your freakin' mind.
The adversaries he's talking about are us. Or specifically, one of our intelligence agencies who made crazy claims about China and were using crap like that to back it up. Our president gave them 90 days to put up or shut up. But they did neither -- while all the rest of the U.S. intelligence community -- and the world -- called bull.
It mostly seems to show that U.S. intelligence services have not completely eradicated the political monsters that lied to us into war with Iraq.
When I was young we were locked in an ideologic battle with the Soviet Union where they were trying to propagate their system and we were trying to propagate ours. And we were inundated with pro-democracy/capitalist propaganda -- and a ton of anti-communist propaganda.
And I believed every word of it.
But, what confused me was why so many countries (especially poor ones) chose Communism -- Cuba is the most obvious example but far from the only one.
Later, it dawned on me that Communism simply met their particular needs better.
Many had been abused by colonialists and unscrupulous capitalists taking advantage of a poor people with a corrupt government. Eventually, we even passed laws (like anti-bribery) against our own corporations while operating overseas.
Oh boy. Tell me...did it occur to you that Communists are tyrants who seize power, murder their opposition and brutally oppress the population? People don't "choose" to live under tyranny. Cuba isn't a Communist shithole because Exxon Mobile bribed people.
This is western propaganda. You cannot explain why CCP tried so hard that no single domestic covid infection and no one died in one year. China haters branded this as CCP lying as a conveniently excuse to look at the facts. My thesis of what are communism, socialism, and capitalism explains this perfectly.
Chinese pupils are returning to school with new textbooks peppered with "Xi Jinping thought", as the Communist Party aims to extend his personality cult to children as young as seven and rear a new generation of patriots.
How about you, waveparticle, are you keeping up with your Xi Jinping thought studies?
And here we want to teach Critical Race Theory -- or, its opposite and white wash over the truth of our genocides and racial oppression -- and paint ourselves as the "Good Guys in the white hat".
We condemn the Taliban the for imposing their religion on women -- while Texas so called "Christians" just did the same -- and our Supreme Court just looked the other way.
So what part of Xi Jinping, authoritarian, are you unable or unwilling to understand?
Comparing an array of expressions by U.S. citizens, groups, and parties, as you have done, is not in any way equivalent to the singular power of an authoritarian, Xi Jinping, in control of the PRC, CPC, and PLA.
George and your vocabulary don't have militarism. This news explains it very well. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dems-ranks-gop-increase-defense-spending Americans have long been brainwashed with the vocabulary of adversary. "Without additional resources, we will lose another generation of shipbuilding in this country, and we will be less prepared to defend both the U.S. and our allies’ interests," House Armed Services Committee vice chair Elaine Luria, a Democrat who voted in favor of the amendment, said earlier this week. "We cannot afford to cut corners and play politics with our national security," Rogers said about his amendment earlier this week. "President Biden’s proposed defense budget for FY22 was wholly inadequate — leaving our men in women in uniform in a vulnerable position and projected weakness to our adversaries."
This is how brainwashing works. Taliban has long been accused of being terrorists for harboring Bin Laden. Last week a NBC in an interview of the Taliban leader, he denies Bin Laden plotted the 911 attack. After 20 years? I watched Bin Laden talks right after the 911 attack. He denied he plotted the attack. Yet this video and NBC interview have been ignored by the people who have influence of American public opinion.
For the record, Texan's voted for the same legislators that wrote and signed that legislation. I may disagree with that, and the constitutionality of it, and the gerrymandering that allowed it, and the voter suppression efforts involved, but none of that is comparable to Xi Jinping's singular control of the PRC.
"White House is concerned about imminent mortar attacks or suicide bombers targeting north-facing gates at the Austin–Bergstrom International Airport during the massive airlift of women out of Texas, sources say." /s
The rest of the U.S., and the world, have some economic power over the State of Texas, to pressure legislators to reverse the legislation. Whether this happens at a large scale, is unknown. It may have the same effect as trade bans based on the PRC's human rights violations, which is to say, nothing, but there surely will be economic impacts, short and long term, either way.
BOYCOTT Beijing Winter Olympic Games 2022!!
You failed to defend this abortion law is not authoritative. Texas Republicans got control of the legislation by maybe 55% or 60% margin. Yet they are able to pass a law that is objected to by 40% or 45% of the population. And you think this is not authoritative. I cannot imagine majority of Texas women is for this law that infringes on their freedom.
You are not Chinese and I don't live in China, why do you care so much of what Xi did that has no effect on Americans?
You fail to understand; pro choice supporters do have options to change Texas law in the future, and while it will certainly be difficult, it won't be impossible.
I doubt that Xi Jinping has concerns about maintaining his power; the benefit of being a dictator:
After five years of relentless political purges and arrests, few harbour any illusions about Xi’s authoritarian inclinations. China’s 64-year-old leader has waged war on dissenters, both inside and outside the Communist party, in a drive to establish total control, crushing civil society and jailing rivals to ensure his coronation as China’s most powerful leader since Mao at last year’s party congress.
Even so, for those who witnessed and suffered the excesses of Mao’s megalomania, Xi’s power grab – which paves the way for him to lead China well into the 2030s – has proved a step too far, leaving them fearful their country is slipping back towards its tumultuous past.
Feel free to defend Xi...
My biggest question is you are an American, I do not live in China, why do you care what Xi did to Chinese people?
Simple.
The PRC's authoritarianism is a threat to the world's rules of order. That authoritarianism should be resisted by the West.
News at 11:00.
The U.S. public is solidly in support of U.S. forces defending Taiwan.
The American public supports a range of US policies in support of Taiwan. Majorities favor US recognition of Taiwan as an independent country (69%), supporting its inclusion in international organizations (65%), and signing a US-Taiwan free trade agreement (57%).
A slimmer majority (53%) support the United States' signing a formal alliance with Taiwan, and a plurality (46%) favor explicitly committing to defend Taiwan if China invades.
When asked about a range of potential scenarios, just over half of Americans (52%) favor using US troops to defend if China were to invade the island. This is the highest level ever recorded in the Council’s surveys dating back to 1982, when the question was first asked.
Republicans (60%) are more likely to support sending US troops to Taiwan’s defense than Democrats (50%) or Independents (49%) – see appendix for more information on partisan divides and Taiwan.
At the same time, Americans are divided over whether the United States should (50%) or should not (47%) sell arms and military equipment to Taiwan.
Distrust of China is a significant factor in US public support for Taiwan: while most Americans see Taiwan as an ally (30%) or necessary partner (30%), most see China as a rival (32%) or an adversary (29%).
I'm guessing that the U.S. public is not a fan of Xi Jinping's authoritarianism, excepting George of course.
I'm a fan of doing the right thing. You advocate hatred other cultures.
The only threat to "world order" is your hatred of other cultures. The threat is not Xi -- but you and your hatred. It is the same kind of irrational hatred that caused us to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
I have long concluded the US hatred toward China is a cultural thing. When Marco Polo travelled to China during the Mongol dynasty, China is more advanced than West. But after Renaissance and Industrial Revolution western world quickly overtook China to become the most advance culture. The essence of this culture is freedom which spawned innovations. Thus the western world cannot give up freedom and tried to defend it vigorously to the extreme that hate any culture that curtail freedom.
You and TMay is born out of this culture. This is evident that you seem to be able to discuss with him much better than I. You can elucidate your thinking more clearly that he can understand.
His hatred of China was born out of the realization that they will soon be overtaking us as the world's largest economy. So, Trump declared war on them -- except it was a cold war of propaganda and smear campaigns supplemented with attacks on their economy through sanctions and trade barriers as well as some clandestine nation building exercises.
TMay bought into Trump's smear campaign -- which morphed into a hatred of communism because it sounds much better than a hatred of a country who is beating us at our own game: capitalism. But weirdly, although he claims to hate communism, China seems to be the only communist country he hates.
But, I think you are right that this is a cultural thing: Trumpism is a cultural phenomena -- it is the last bastion of the chest thumping, flag waving misguided idiots who think America is perfect and has an obligation to remake the world in its own image.
I just hope whatever education or media environment that has fed this to you is on the way out, because it's very unhealthy.
For 20+ years that media environment spewed misinformation that went unchallenged and mostly unnoticed by most of America. Those that did notice it assumed that it would just fade away and truth would prevail. But it didn't. And the lies grew and became base assumptions and that media environment spread and is now embedded throughout the U.S. from cable TV to social media to local broadcasters and print media.
We need to thank Trump (and Putin) for bringing that misinformation up to the surface to be exposed for what it is.
And we need to challenge it at every opportunity because it is the greatest threat to our democracy.
... The greatest, most powerful weapon we have against it is to shine the light of truth on it.
When I was young we were locked in an ideologic battle with the Soviet Union where they were trying to propagate their system and we were trying to propagate ours. And we were inundated with pro-democracy/capitalist propaganda -- and a ton of anti-communist propaganda.
And I believed every word of it.
But, what confused me was why so many countries (especially poor ones) chose Communism -- Cuba is the most obvious example but far from the only one.
Later, it dawned on me that Communism simply met their particular needs better.
Many had been abused by colonialists and unscrupulous capitalists taking advantage of a poor people with a corrupt government. Eventually, we even passed laws (like anti-bribery) against our own corporations while operating overseas.
Oh boy. Tell me...did it occur to you that Communists are tyrants who seize power, murder their opposition and brutally oppress the population? People don't "choose" to live under tyranny. ... according to capitalist ideology and propaganda
Finished that for you....
The truth is: neither is perfect -- each has strengths and weaknesses. And, to be successful over time, both rely on intelligent leadership who puts the interests of the country and its people first -- and is not bound by either ideology or theology. Instead, they just do the right thing for country and its people.
Just, wow. Tell that to the 100 million people Communism has killed.
How about you tell that to the 1/4 million Afghans that we killed? Or even the 6 kids we murdered last week.
Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoquelogical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument.[1][2][3]
According to Russian writer, chess grandmaster and political activist Garry Kasparov, whataboutism is a word that was coined to describe the frequent use of a rhetorical diversion by Soviet apologists and dictators, who would counter charges of their oppression, "massacres, gulags, and forced deportations" by invoking American slavery, racism, lynchings, etc.[4] Whataboutism has been used by other politicians and countries as well. Whataboutism is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.[5][6][7]
Now you've mastered the same Whataboutism for defending the PRC.
When I was young we were locked in an ideologic battle with the Soviet Union where they were trying to propagate their system and we were trying to propagate ours. And we were inundated with pro-democracy/capitalist propaganda -- and a ton of anti-communist propaganda.
And I believed every word of it.
But, what confused me was why so many countries (especially poor ones) chose Communism -- Cuba is the most obvious example but far from the only one.
Later, it dawned on me that Communism simply met their particular needs better.
Many had been abused by colonialists and unscrupulous capitalists taking advantage of a poor people with a corrupt government. Eventually, we even passed laws (like anti-bribery) against our own corporations while operating overseas.
Oh boy. Tell me...did it occur to you that Communists are tyrants who seize power, murder their opposition and brutally oppress the population? People don't "choose" to live under tyranny. Cuba isn't a Communist shithole because Exxon Mobile bribed people.
This is western propaganda. You cannot explain why CCP tried so hard that no single domestic covid infection and no one died in one year. China haters branded this as CCP lying as a conveniently excuse to look at the facts. My thesis of what are communism, socialism, and capitalism explains this perfectly.
Chinese pupils are returning to school with new textbooks peppered with "Xi Jinping thought", as the Communist Party aims to extend his personality cult to children as young as seven and rear a new generation of patriots.
How about you, waveparticle, are you keeping up with your Xi Jinping thought studies?
And here we want to teach Critical Race Theory -- or, its opposite and white wash over the truth of our genocides and racial oppression -- and paint ourselves as the "Good Guys in the white hat".
We condemn the Taliban the for imposing their religion on women -- while Texas so called "Christians" just did the same -- and our Supreme Court just looked the other way.
So what part of Xi Jinping, authoritarian, are you unable or unwilling to understand?
Comparing an array of expressions by U.S. citizens, groups, and parties, as you have done, is not in any way equivalent to the singular power of an authoritarian, Xi Jinping, in control of the PRC, CPC, and PLA.
George and your vocabulary don't have militarism. This news explains it very well. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dems-ranks-gop-increase-defense-spending Americans have long been brainwashed with the vocabulary of adversary. "Without additional resources, we will lose another generation of shipbuilding in this country, and we will be less prepared to defend both the U.S. and our allies’ interests," House Armed Services Committee vice chair Elaine Luria, a Democrat who voted in favor of the amendment, said earlier this week. "We cannot afford to cut corners and play politics with our national security," Rogers said about his amendment earlier this week. "President Biden’s proposed defense budget for FY22 was wholly inadequate — leaving our men in women in uniform in a vulnerable position and projected weakness to our adversaries."
This is how brainwashing works. Taliban has long been accused of being terrorists for harboring Bin Laden. Last week a NBC in an interview of the Taliban leader, he denies Bin Laden plotted the 911 attack. After 20 years? I watched Bin Laden talks right after the 911 attack. He denied he plotted the attack. Yet this video and NBC interview have been ignored by the people who have influence of American public opinion.
For the record, Texan's voted for the same legislators that wrote and signed that legislation. I may disagree with that, and the constitutionality of it, and the gerrymandering that allowed it, and the voter suppression efforts involved, but none of that is comparable to Xi Jinping's singular control of the PRC.
"White House is concerned about imminent mortar attacks or suicide bombers targeting north-facing gates at the Austin–Bergstrom International Airport during the massive airlift of women out of Texas, sources say." /s
The rest of the U.S., and the world, have some economic power over the State of Texas, to pressure legislators to reverse the legislation. Whether this happens at a large scale, is unknown. It may have the same effect as trade bans based on the PRC's human rights violations, which is to say, nothing, but there surely will be economic impacts, short and long term, either way.
BOYCOTT Beijing Winter Olympic Games 2022!!
You failed to defend this abortion law is not authoritative. Texas Republicans got control of the legislation by maybe 55% or 60% margin. Yet they are able to pass a law that is objected to by 40% or 45% of the population. And you think this is not authoritative. I cannot imagine majority of Texas women is for this law that infringes on their freedom.
You are not Chinese and I don't live in China, why do you care so much of what Xi did that has no effect on Americans?
You fail to understand; pro choice supporters do have options to change Texas law in the future, and while it will certainly be difficult, it won't be impossible.
I doubt that Xi Jinping has concerns about maintaining his power; the benefit of being a dictator:
After five years of relentless political purges and arrests, few harbour any illusions about Xi’s authoritarian inclinations. China’s 64-year-old leader has waged war on dissenters, both inside and outside the Communist party, in a drive to establish total control, crushing civil society and jailing rivals to ensure his coronation as China’s most powerful leader since Mao at last year’s party congress.
Even so, for those who witnessed and suffered the excesses of Mao’s megalomania, Xi’s power grab – which paves the way for him to lead China well into the 2030s – has proved a step too far, leaving them fearful their country is slipping back towards its tumultuous past.
Feel free to defend Xi...
My biggest question is you are an American, I do not live in China, why do you care what Xi did to Chinese people?
Simple.
The PRC's authoritarianism is a threat to the world's rules of order. That authoritarianism should be resisted by the West.
News at 11:00.
The U.S. public is solidly in support of U.S. forces defending Taiwan.
The American public supports a range of US policies in support of Taiwan. Majorities favor US recognition of Taiwan as an independent country (69%), supporting its inclusion in international organizations (65%), and signing a US-Taiwan free trade agreement (57%).
A slimmer majority (53%) support the United States' signing a formal alliance with Taiwan, and a plurality (46%) favor explicitly committing to defend Taiwan if China invades.
When asked about a range of potential scenarios, just over half of Americans (52%) favor using US troops to defend if China were to invade the island. This is the highest level ever recorded in the Council’s surveys dating back to 1982, when the question was first asked.
Republicans (60%) are more likely to support sending US troops to Taiwan’s defense than Democrats (50%) or Independents (49%) – see appendix for more information on partisan divides and Taiwan.
At the same time, Americans are divided over whether the United States should (50%) or should not (47%) sell arms and military equipment to Taiwan.
Distrust of China is a significant factor in US public support for Taiwan: while most Americans see Taiwan as an ally (30%) or necessary partner (30%), most see China as a rival (32%) or an adversary (29%).
I'm guessing that the U.S. public is not a fan of Xi Jinping's authoritarianism, excepting George of course.
I'm a fan of doing the right thing. You advocate hatred other cultures.
The only threat to "world order" is your hatred of other cultures. The threat is not Xi -- but you and your hatred. It is the same kind of irrational hatred that caused us to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
I have long concluded the US hatred toward China is a cultural thing. When Marco Polo travelled to China during the Mongol dynasty, China is more advanced than West. But after Renaissance and Industrial Revolution western world quickly overtook China to become the most advance culture. The essence of this culture is freedom which spawned innovations. Thus the western world cannot give up freedom and tried to defend it vigorously to the extreme that hate any culture that curtail freedom.
You and TMay is born out of this culture. This is evident that you seem to be able to discuss with him much better than I. You can elucidate your thinking more clearly that he can understand.
His hatred of China was born out of the realization that they will soon be overtaking us as the world's largest economy. So, Trump declared war on them -- except it was a cold war of propaganda and smear campaigns supplemented with attacks on their economy through sanctions and trade barriers as well as some clandestine nation building exercises.
TMay bought into Trump's smear campaign -- which morphed into a hatred of communism because it sounds much better than a hatred of a country who is beating us at our own game: capitalism. But weirdly, although he claims to hate communism, China seems to be the only communist country he hates.
But, I think you are right that this is a cultural thing: Trumpism is a cultural phenomena -- it is the last bastion of the chest thumping, flag waving misguided idiots who think America is perfect and has an obligation to remake the world in its own image.
Gee, if only it were the threat of the PRC overtaking our economy, and soon.
Yet, to date, you haven't been able to produce evidence, or link to, anything other than speculations of that occurring. As I've posted before, the chances of the PRC exceeding the U.S. GDP weren't expected to occur before 2032, if ever.
China's economy is likely to still be the world's second biggest in 2050, trailing the U.S., according to analysis just released.
The prediction by Capital Economics is at odds with a common view that China is set to surpass the U.S. as the world's biggest economy and stay there.
The London-based consultancy forecasts that China's economic clout will not increase steadily relative to the U.S. through time, due in part to its workforce declining by more than 0.5 percent a year by 2030. Meanwhile, the U.S. workforce will expand over the next 30 years, supported by higher fertility than in China and immigration, it said.
The Communist Party wants the world to see China’s continued rise as inevitable. In reality, it’s anything but.
When will China overtake the U.S. to become the world’s biggest economy?
Few questions are more consequential, whether it’s for executives wondering where long-term profits will come from, investors weighing the dollar’s status as global reserve currency, or generals strategizing over geopolitical flashpoints.
In Beijing, where they’ve just been celebrating the 100th anniversary of the Chinese Communist Party, leaders are doing their best to present the baton-change as imminent and inevitable. “The Chinese nation,” President Xi Jinping said last week, “is marching towards a great rejuvenation at an unstoppable pace.”
Early in the Covid-19 crisis, when China managed to control infections and maintain growth even as the U.S. suffered hundreds of thousands of deaths and a crunching recession, many were inclined to agree. More recently, an unexpectedly fast U.S. recovery has illustrated just how much uncertainty remains around the timing of the transition—and even whether it will happen at all.
Your argument that the PRC will soon overtake the U.S. in GDP isn't supported by fact. It may happen, but it is becoming less likely to actually happen at all as the rapid growth of the PRC's economy slows, and demographics work against the PRC.
I have frequently posted arguments that the PRC is a military threat to the West. Fortunately, the West sees that as well, not just the U.S., and that has increased cooperation amongst U.S. Allies to constrain the PRC from using its military power to overturn the rules of order established after WWII.
I have also been adamant that Taiwan should continue to exist as an independent and democratic nation. You disagree with that. Again, the West is coming around to increasing support for Taiwan, including defense of Taiwan in the event of invasion from the PRC.
As for your accusation that "China is the only communist country he hates", it am happy to note, that I am less concerned about communist countries, such as Viet Nam, that do not in fact threaten the U.S. militarily, than I am of Russia and the PRC. I would note that even you are not a supporter of Russia, yet are solidly supportive of the PRC under Xi Jinping. Why is that? Different brands of authoritarianism?
As such, despite their historical past, today Vietnam is considered to be a potential ally of the United States, especially in the geopolitical context of the territorial disputes in the South China Sea and in containment of Chinese expansionism.
There's that Chinese expansionism again, and the militarism that is behind that.
I just hope whatever education or media environment that has fed this to you is on the way out, because it's very unhealthy.
For 20+ years that media environment spewed misinformation that went unchallenged and mostly unnoticed by most of America. Those that did notice it assumed that it would just fade away and truth would prevail. But it didn't. And the lies grew and became base assumptions and that media environment spread and is now embedded throughout the U.S. from cable TV to social media to local broadcasters and print media.
We need to thank Trump (and Putin) for bringing that misinformation up to the surface to be exposed for what it is.
And we need to challenge it at every opportunity because it is the greatest threat to our democracy.
... The greatest, most powerful weapon we have against it is to shine the light of truth on it.
You seem unable to state that the PRC is also a major source of misinformation. Why is that? Afraid to acknowledge that the PRC is "spewing" propaganda worldwide?
When I was young we were locked in an ideologic battle with the Soviet Union where they were trying to propagate their system and we were trying to propagate ours. And we were inundated with pro-democracy/capitalist propaganda -- and a ton of anti-communist propaganda.
And I believed every word of it.
But, what confused me was why so many countries (especially poor ones) chose Communism -- Cuba is the most obvious example but far from the only one.
Later, it dawned on me that Communism simply met their particular needs better.
Many had been abused by colonialists and unscrupulous capitalists taking advantage of a poor people with a corrupt government. Eventually, we even passed laws (like anti-bribery) against our own corporations while operating overseas.
Oh boy. Tell me...did it occur to you that Communists are tyrants who seize power, murder their opposition and brutally oppress the population? People don't "choose" to live under tyranny. ... according to capitalist ideology and propaganda
Finished that for you....
The truth is: neither is perfect -- each has strengths and weaknesses. And, to be successful over time, both rely on intelligent leadership who puts the interests of the country and its people first -- and is not bound by either ideology or theology. Instead, they just do the right thing for country and its people.
Just, wow. Tell that to the 100 million people Communism has killed.
How about you tell that to the 1/4 million Afghans that we killed? Or even the 6 kids we murdered last week.
Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoquelogical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument.[1][2][3]
According to Russian writer, chess grandmaster and political activist Garry Kasparov, whataboutism is a word that was coined to describe the frequent use of a rhetorical diversion by Soviet apologists and dictators, who would counter charges of their oppression, "massacres, gulags, and forced deportations" by invoking American slavery, racism, lynchings, etc.[4] Whataboutism has been used by other politicians and countries as well. Whataboutism is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.[5][6][7]
Now you've mastered the same Whataboutism for defending the PRC.
No, rather you've mastered a version of gas lighting: pointing the finger at others in order to distract from your own crimes.
To you, it's OK that we murder children. But an allegation that China is teaching them communism provokes outrage from you.
When I was young we were locked in an ideologic battle with the Soviet Union where they were trying to propagate their system and we were trying to propagate ours. And we were inundated with pro-democracy/capitalist propaganda -- and a ton of anti-communist propaganda.
And I believed every word of it.
But, what confused me was why so many countries (especially poor ones) chose Communism -- Cuba is the most obvious example but far from the only one.
Later, it dawned on me that Communism simply met their particular needs better.
Many had been abused by colonialists and unscrupulous capitalists taking advantage of a poor people with a corrupt government. Eventually, we even passed laws (like anti-bribery) against our own corporations while operating overseas.
Oh boy. Tell me...did it occur to you that Communists are tyrants who seize power, murder their opposition and brutally oppress the population? People don't "choose" to live under tyranny. ... according to capitalist ideology and propaganda
Finished that for you....
The truth is: neither is perfect -- each has strengths and weaknesses. And, to be successful over time, both rely on intelligent leadership who puts the interests of the country and its people first -- and is not bound by either ideology or theology. Instead, they just do the right thing for country and its people.
Just, wow. Tell that to the 100 million people Communism has killed.
How about you tell that to the 1/4 million Afghans that we killed? Or even the 6 kids we murdered last week.
Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoquelogical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument.[1][2][3]
According to Russian writer, chess grandmaster and political activist Garry Kasparov, whataboutism is a word that was coined to describe the frequent use of a rhetorical diversion by Soviet apologists and dictators, who would counter charges of their oppression, "massacres, gulags, and forced deportations" by invoking American slavery, racism, lynchings, etc.[4] Whataboutism has been used by other politicians and countries as well. Whataboutism is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.[5][6][7]
Now you've mastered the same Whataboutism for defending the PRC.
No, rather you've mastered a version of gas lighting: pointing the finger at others in order to distract from your own crimes.
To you, it's OK that we murder children. But an allegation that China is teaching them communism provokes outrage from you.
I would actually see the "teaching" of Xi Jinping thoughts as "brainwashing", given the age of the children, and the lack of a broad range of information accessible to them. Is that why you are so biased towards the PRC, because you lack a broad range of information access? Perhaps you too are brainwashed by PRC propaganda.
When I was young we were locked in an ideologic battle with the Soviet Union where they were trying to propagate their system and we were trying to propagate ours. And we were inundated with pro-democracy/capitalist propaganda -- and a ton of anti-communist propaganda.
And I believed every word of it.
But, what confused me was why so many countries (especially poor ones) chose Communism -- Cuba is the most obvious example but far from the only one.
Later, it dawned on me that Communism simply met their particular needs better.
Many had been abused by colonialists and unscrupulous capitalists taking advantage of a poor people with a corrupt government. Eventually, we even passed laws (like anti-bribery) against our own corporations while operating overseas.
Oh boy. Tell me...did it occur to you that Communists are tyrants who seize power, murder their opposition and brutally oppress the population? People don't "choose" to live under tyranny. ... according to capitalist ideology and propaganda
Finished that for you....
The truth is: neither is perfect -- each has strengths and weaknesses. And, to be successful over time, both rely on intelligent leadership who puts the interests of the country and its people first -- and is not bound by either ideology or theology. Instead, they just do the right thing for country and its people.
Just, wow. Tell that to the 100 million people Communism has killed.
How about you tell that to the 1/4 million Afghans that we killed? Or even the 6 kids we murdered last week.
Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoquelogical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument.[1][2][3]
According to Russian writer, chess grandmaster and political activist Garry Kasparov, whataboutism is a word that was coined to describe the frequent use of a rhetorical diversion by Soviet apologists and dictators, who would counter charges of their oppression, "massacres, gulags, and forced deportations" by invoking American slavery, racism, lynchings, etc.[4] Whataboutism has been used by other politicians and countries as well. Whataboutism is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.[5][6][7]
Now you've mastered the same Whataboutism for defending the PRC.
No, rather you've mastered a version of gas lighting: pointing the finger at others in order to distract from your own crimes.
To you, it's OK that we murder children. But an allegation that China is teaching them communism provokes outrage from you.
I would actually see the "teaching" of Xi Jinping thoughts as "brainwashing", given the age of the children, and the lack of a broad range of information accessible to them. Is that why you are so biased towards the PRC, because you lack a broad range of information access? Perhaps you too are brainwashed by PRC propaganda.
Comments
In theory, I don't disagree. But in practice, no. I was all for a two-week shutdown and I was OK with a 30-45 day shutdown. We didn't know enough about the virus yet, and it was a true emergency. But after Spring of 2020, it was clear...the virus was being used to implement tyranny. There is no justification for the lunacy that is happening right now wrt the mitigation efforts. They often don't even make scientific sense. Lockdowns don't work. Masks have extremely limited efficacy. As for guns? I'm not a gun guy, but I want the right to become one.
To be clear, I'm not opposed to having an academic debate. I have a post-graduate level education, after all. My concern is that many "Democratic Socialists" (i.e. Scandinavia model) are using that term to push us to towards actual, tyrannical socialism. And of course, I oppose their policies, which regardless of name or even Constitutionality are insane in my view.
OK.
1. I don't know that a public option is tyranny, but I know it will lead to nationalized/government healthcare. The private market won't be able to exist if it competes against the government at this level. It will lead reduced quality of care and will do nothing to lower costs.
2. What is a national living wage? What is a living wage, at all? Is it necessary when there is a massive labor shortage at the moment, with McDonald's hiring 14 and 15 years olds a $15 an hour? The government mandating a "living wage" is a terrible idea.
3. We have background checks, and while I generally support them, I question their efficacy. I oppose any further restrictions not just on Constitutional grounds, but efficacy grounds. There are things we could do, like banning private sales or requiring checks from non FFL dealers (e.g. a father to son sale, neighbor, etc.). But there's no evidence this would reduce gun crime or death rates. Is it socialism? It's certainly a loss of liberty to pass more restrictions.
Yeah, we Americans take our freedom pretty seriously. We tend to look for threats to our freedom and oppose them. If this is "fear." then it's usually justified and based on an understanding of freedom's loss throughout history.
You and TMay is born out of this culture. This is evident that you seem to be able to discuss with him much better than I. You can elucidate your thinking more clearly that he can understand.
Do you even realise how much you're contracting yourself?Lockdowns absolutely work, pretty much every lockdown has been followed by a precipitous drop in cases. It's both common sense and empirically observable; of course they work! Masks are not a cure-all, but they definitely have efficacy.
And I don't want the right to own a gun, nor for the widespread right for anyone to own gun. No one that I want to share airspace with needs that.
Paranoiac nonsense, in my opinion. What Democratic Socialists are you even accusing of being Stalinists in disguise?Little evidence for that. Many countries operate both public and private healthcare options. Even if it does, it's not tyranny.I don't agree it's a terrible idea, but even if it is, it's not tyranny.
You oppose background and mental health checks on efficacy grounds? If so, I think you're actually insane; there is an avalanche of evidence that such measures have meaningful impact. And I don't disagree with you that banning private sales would also be very helpful. But neither policy would be tyranny.
Tyranny is not any slight restriction of freedom for common social good, that's an extreme position. If you genuinely believe all the tyranny stuff then I can see how that'd make sense to you. But in my opinion you and so many of your people built this entire worldview on a pile of hysterical nonsense. I just hope whatever education or media environment that has fed this to you is on the way out, because it's very unhealthy.
Yeh, I stick to reality.
How about you tell that to the 1/4 million Afghans that we killed? Or even the 6 kids we murdered last week.
So, you have no rebuttal just the standard: "We think they are bad guys and we are the good guys. So they must have lied about doing something good -- otherwise my whole belief system crumbles and we look like fools."
Now you've mastered the same Whataboutism for defending the PRC.
Yet, to date, you haven't been able to produce evidence, or link to, anything other than speculations of that occurring. As I've posted before, the chances of the PRC exceeding the U.S. GDP weren't expected to occur before 2032, if ever.
https://www.newsweek.com/china-u-s-economy-gdp-capital-economics-1570558
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-07-05/when-will-china-s-economy-beat-the-u-s-to-become-no-1-why-it-may-never-happen?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_content=business&utm_source=t
Your argument that the PRC will soon overtake the U.S. in GDP isn't supported by fact. It may happen, but it is becoming less likely to actually happen at all as the rapid growth of the PRC's economy slows, and demographics work against the PRC.
I have frequently posted arguments that the PRC is a military threat to the West. Fortunately, the West sees that as well, not just the U.S., and that has increased cooperation amongst U.S. Allies to constrain the PRC from using its military power to overturn the rules of order established after WWII.
I have also been adamant that Taiwan should continue to exist as an independent and democratic nation. You disagree with that. Again, the West is coming around to increasing support for Taiwan, including defense of Taiwan in the event of invasion from the PRC.
As for your accusation that "China is the only communist country he hates", it am happy to note, that I am less concerned about communist countries, such as Viet Nam, that do not in fact threaten the U.S. militarily, than I am of Russia and the PRC. I would note that even you are not a supporter of Russia, yet are solidly supportive of the PRC under Xi Jinping. Why is that? Different brands of authoritarianism?
There's that Chinese expansionism again, and the militarism that is behind that.
I don't think it's me who's been brainwashed