Compared: Microsoft's Surface Pro 8 vs 12.9-inch iPad Pro

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 29
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,446member
    danvm said:
    Windows is such hot garbage— and it was cobbled together with cursors and keyboards in mind, and then adapted slightly to support touch. I've never seen anyone use a Surface without the slap on keyboard/trackpad bit, and at that point why not just get a laptop? Surfaces really are the perfect MS product, in that they try to be all things to all people instead of committing to hard design choices. It's like a car that can also be a boat, so it's terrible at both. Boo this product. Booooo!
    If I go by your post, the iPad Pro is a hot garbage when used with the Smart Keyboard, because "it was cobbled together with a touchscreen and touch optimized apps in mind, and then adapted slightly to support keyboard and trackpad." 

    You also mentioned that users could go with a notebook instead of a Surface Pro, since MS tries to be all things to all people and that it's similarity with a car that can be a boat.  But isn't the same with the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard?  Do you think it would be a better experience, considering the iPad Pro forces you to use a touchscreen optimized UI and touchscreen optimized apps with a keyboard / trackpad?  

    IMO, which one is better depends in your workflow.  If you are more in the line of desktop apps, the Surface is a better device.  Are you more in line with touch apps?  The iPad is a better device.  
     If you are more in the line of desktop apps, a laptop is a better device.  Are you more in line with touch apps?  The iPad is a better device.  

    (Fixed that for you.)
    So I suppose that you also think that a laptop is a better device than an iPad Pro + Magic Keyboard, right?
  • Reply 22 of 29
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    danvm said:
    danvm said:
    Windows is such hot garbage— and it was cobbled together with cursors and keyboards in mind, and then adapted slightly to support touch. I've never seen anyone use a Surface without the slap on keyboard/trackpad bit, and at that point why not just get a laptop? Surfaces really are the perfect MS product, in that they try to be all things to all people instead of committing to hard design choices. It's like a car that can also be a boat, so it's terrible at both. Boo this product. Booooo!
    If I go by your post, the iPad Pro is a hot garbage when used with the Smart Keyboard, because "it was cobbled together with a touchscreen and touch optimized apps in mind, and then adapted slightly to support keyboard and trackpad." 

    You also mentioned that users could go with a notebook instead of a Surface Pro, since MS tries to be all things to all people and that it's similarity with a car that can be a boat.  But isn't the same with the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard?  Do you think it would be a better experience, considering the iPad Pro forces you to use a touchscreen optimized UI and touchscreen optimized apps with a keyboard / trackpad?  

    IMO, which one is better depends in your workflow.  If you are more in the line of desktop apps, the Surface is a better device.  Are you more in line with touch apps?  The iPad is a better device.  
     If you are more in the line of desktop apps, a laptop is a better device.  Are you more in line with touch apps?  The iPad is a better device.  

    (Fixed that for you.)
    So I suppose that you also think that a laptop is a better device than an iPad Pro + Magic Keyboard, right?
    As always, it depends what you need to do.
    dewme
  • Reply 23 of 29
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,446member
    crowley said:
    danvm said:
    danvm said:
    Windows is such hot garbage— and it was cobbled together with cursors and keyboards in mind, and then adapted slightly to support touch. I've never seen anyone use a Surface without the slap on keyboard/trackpad bit, and at that point why not just get a laptop? Surfaces really are the perfect MS product, in that they try to be all things to all people instead of committing to hard design choices. It's like a car that can also be a boat, so it's terrible at both. Boo this product. Booooo!
    If I go by your post, the iPad Pro is a hot garbage when used with the Smart Keyboard, because "it was cobbled together with a touchscreen and touch optimized apps in mind, and then adapted slightly to support keyboard and trackpad." 

    You also mentioned that users could go with a notebook instead of a Surface Pro, since MS tries to be all things to all people and that it's similarity with a car that can be a boat.  But isn't the same with the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard?  Do you think it would be a better experience, considering the iPad Pro forces you to use a touchscreen optimized UI and touchscreen optimized apps with a keyboard / trackpad?  

    IMO, which one is better depends in your workflow.  If you are more in the line of desktop apps, the Surface is a better device.  Are you more in line with touch apps?  The iPad is a better device.  
     If you are more in the line of desktop apps, a laptop is a better device.  Are you more in line with touch apps?  The iPad is a better device.  

    (Fixed that for you.)
    So I suppose that you also think that a laptop is a better device than an iPad Pro + Magic Keyboard, right?
    As always, it depends what you need to do.
    Exactly, same as with the Surface Pro.
    dewme
  • Reply 24 of 29
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    danvm said:
    crowley said:
    danvm said:
    danvm said:
    Windows is such hot garbage— and it was cobbled together with cursors and keyboards in mind, and then adapted slightly to support touch. I've never seen anyone use a Surface without the slap on keyboard/trackpad bit, and at that point why not just get a laptop? Surfaces really are the perfect MS product, in that they try to be all things to all people instead of committing to hard design choices. It's like a car that can also be a boat, so it's terrible at both. Boo this product. Booooo!
    If I go by your post, the iPad Pro is a hot garbage when used with the Smart Keyboard, because "it was cobbled together with a touchscreen and touch optimized apps in mind, and then adapted slightly to support keyboard and trackpad." 

    You also mentioned that users could go with a notebook instead of a Surface Pro, since MS tries to be all things to all people and that it's similarity with a car that can be a boat.  But isn't the same with the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard?  Do you think it would be a better experience, considering the iPad Pro forces you to use a touchscreen optimized UI and touchscreen optimized apps with a keyboard / trackpad?  

    IMO, which one is better depends in your workflow.  If you are more in the line of desktop apps, the Surface is a better device.  Are you more in line with touch apps?  The iPad is a better device.  
     If you are more in the line of desktop apps, a laptop is a better device.  Are you more in line with touch apps?  The iPad is a better device.  

    (Fixed that for you.)
    So I suppose that you also think that a laptop is a better device than an iPad Pro + Magic Keyboard, right?
    As always, it depends what you need to do.
    Exactly, same as with the Surface Pro.
    Sure, that's included in "always".
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 29
    PezaPeza Posts: 198member
    darkvader said:
    What a silly article.

    The Surface is a computer.  Not a great computer, but an actual computer that you can install any software you want on it.

    The iPad is a toy, stuck in a walled garden app store.
    Exactly, the iPad Pro has awesome  power and performance, that's totally disabled by its extremely cut back OS. End of the day the Microsoft Surface will always be more powerful with ease because it uses a full blown OS able to make full use of the power it has.
    Apple for what ever reason seem reluctant to follow suite. Think it's obvious they will never make iPad OS to be the same as Mac OS, which is a shame as the iPad Pro hardware wise is better IMO.
    KITAwilliamlondonelijahg
  • Reply 26 of 29
    Peza said:
    darkvader said:
    What a silly article.

    The Surface is a computer.  Not a great computer, but an actual computer that you can install any software you want on it.

    The iPad is a toy, stuck in a walled garden app store.
    Exactly, the iPad Pro has awesome  power and performance, that's totally disabled by its extremely cut back OS. End of the day the Microsoft Surface will always be more powerful with ease because it uses a full blown OS able to make full use of the power it has.
    Apple for what ever reason seem reluctant to follow suite. Think it's obvious they will never make iPad OS to be the same as Mac OS, which is a shame as the iPad Pro hardware wise is better IMO.
    Another armchair CEO passing judgment on the most successful company and products of all time thinking they know better, but then again you must know better because you're 'entitled commoner on the street'?
    roundaboutnowthtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 29
    KITAKITA Posts: 409member
    Peza said:
    darkvader said:
    What a silly article.

    The Surface is a computer.  Not a great computer, but an actual computer that you can install any software you want on it.

    The iPad is a toy, stuck in a walled garden app store.
    Exactly, the iPad Pro has awesome  power and performance, that's totally disabled by its extremely cut back OS. End of the day the Microsoft Surface will always be more powerful with ease because it uses a full blown OS able to make full use of the power it has.
    Apple for what ever reason seem reluctant to follow suite. Think it's obvious they will never make iPad OS to be the same as Mac OS, which is a shame as the iPad Pro hardware wise is better IMO.
    Another armchair CEO passing judgment on the most successful company and products of all time thinking they know better, but then again you must know better because you're 'entitled commoner on the street'?
    What about Peza's post is so wrong that you need to antagonize?

    It's no secret that iPadOS is no match for macOS, let alone Windows when it comes to desktop level applications. For all the hate that Windows gets on this site, it's still the best OS for productivity with the widest range of desktop applications and features. It's even done an excellent job by integrating Linux via WSL / WSL2, which has only strengthened its capabilities. I'd also add that Windows 11 has done a great deal to improve the touch experience of the OS, as well, the ability to run any Android app is also another advantage that it will offer in an upcoming update (post-release). 

    None of that takes away from Apple's accomplishments or success, but it does point out an area of the market they've been unable to win over.
    muthuk_vanalingamelijahg
  • Reply 28 of 29
    KITA said:
    Peza said:
    darkvader said:
    What a silly article.

    The Surface is a computer.  Not a great computer, but an actual computer that you can install any software you want on it.

    The iPad is a toy, stuck in a walled garden app store.
    Exactly, the iPad Pro has awesome  power and performance, that's totally disabled by its extremely cut back OS. End of the day the Microsoft Surface will always be more powerful with ease because it uses a full blown OS able to make full use of the power it has.
    Apple for what ever reason seem reluctant to follow suite. Think it's obvious they will never make iPad OS to be the same as Mac OS, which is a shame as the iPad Pro hardware wise is better IMO.
    Another armchair CEO passing judgment on the most successful company and products of all time thinking they know better, but then again you must know better because you're 'entitled commoner on the street'?
    What about Peza's post is so wrong that you need to antagonize?

    It's no secret that iPadOS is no match for macOS, let alone Windows when it comes to desktop level applications. For all the hate that Windows gets on this site, it's still the best OS for productivity with the widest range of desktop applications and features. It's even done an excellent job by integrating Linux via WSL / WSL2, which has only strengthened its capabilities. I'd also add that Windows 11 has done a great deal to improve the touch experience of the OS, as well, the ability to run any Android app is also another advantage that it will offer in an upcoming update (post-release). 

    None of that takes away from Apple's accomplishments or success, but it does point out an area of the market they've been unable to win over.
    Your ignorance, like his, is coming through - you both think that you know product strategy and development better than Apple, and both of you criticise one of the most successful (if not *the*) most successful companies on the planet, with a laser focus on one of their biggest star products.

    The hybrid approach has been discussed ad nauseam and debunked on here numerous times already, it's a dead horse, stop beating it and berating Apple for their successful decisions. If you don't like it, go to M$haft, or better yet, start a new company with other armchair CEOs who believe Apple is so wrong on this (and others I'm sure), the world is obviously in dire need of another "Homer" to shut up the screeching morons.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 29
    danvm said:
    raoulduke42 said:fa
    Windows is such hot garbage— and it was cobbled together with cursors and keyboards in mind, and then adapted slightly to support touch. I've never seen anyone use a Surface without the slap on keyboard/trackpad bit, and at that point why not just get a laptop? Surfaces really are the perfect MS product, in that they try to be all things to all people instead of committing to hard design choices. It's like a car that can also be a boat, so it's terrible at both. Boo this product. Booooo!
    If I go by your post, the iPad Pro is a hot garbage when used with the Smart Keyboard, because "it was cobbled together with a touchscreen and touch optimized apps in mind, and then adapted slightly to support keyboard and trackpad." 

    You also mentioned that users could go with a notebook instead of a Surface Pro, since MS tries to be all things to all people and that it's similarity with a car that can be a boat.  But isn't the same with the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard?  Do you think it would be a better experience, considering the iPad Pro forces you to use a touchscreen optimized UI and touchscreen optimized apps with a keyboard / trackpad?  

    IMO, which one is better depends in your workflow.  If you are more in the line of desktop apps, the Surface is a better device.  Are you more in line with touch apps?  The iPad is a better device.  
    iPad Pro plus Smart Keyboard is not hot garbage because iPadOS is not hot garbage. Windows is just generally terrible, on anything. iPad+whatever case that makes it somewhat more laptop like is fine because such cases are not *required* for a good iPad experience. Such things are required for the MS Surfaces.

    Now if one can tolerate Windows I think the MS Surface Studio stuff is the way to bring touch/stylus support to an originally designed for mouse/keyboard OS. I wouldn't be mad if Apple made a MacBook Studio and it was a similar convertible design to the MS Surface Studio (and didn't really mess with MacOS all that much to accommodate the touch/Pencil support). But with that setup, critically, the trackpad and keyboard are *always* with the computer. The touch/Pencil stuff is just nice for artists and others willing to pay a premium for fancy hardware. Just as the Smart Keyboard accessory is a nice *option* for those who value the simplicity of iPadOS, but generally just do basic laptop things and are used to that form factor. My mom uses a 2015 iPad Pro with a Logitech keyboard case in just that way. An MS studio with attendant keyboard/trackpad attachment would be *more* complicated to her than the iMac she's moved away from (as would a tablet with full MacOS running on it).

    So I guess my point is that Apple seems to be implementing touch/stylus support in a much more measured, considered manner than MS managed. And that Windows is hot garbage.
    edited March 2023
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