The reason why products are cheaper in China are because of lack of labor laws. So they use child labor, forced labor, slave labor, etc. They also have few environmental protection laws. This also makes it cheaper to produce products. US products do have these restrictions, so it is more expensive to produce products in the United States. Companies like Apple go to China for their products becauset is cheaper .. but then they should not pretend to be so environmentally conscious and they should not pretend to be so socially conscious. By simply producing their products in China, they are not either.
China has moved its population from poverty to mostly middle class in a very short period of time. They not only do not support the abuses you claim, they are eliminating them. But, their people do have pride in their country and their work and the government eliminating the 996 standard was controversial.
On the other hand, look at our own southern neighbors for real poverty, crime and corruption where their people have little hope of living a decent life -- or even our own country where the mother of a minority fears for her children's lives anytime they are outside of the house.
Only just last month did the PRC's "Supreme People's Court" deem 996 illegal. How wonderful given the decades that 996 was the standard.
The dark side of working for China’s booming technology industry often comes under the spotlight when a worker dies on the job, as was the case in January this year with the death of two employees at social commerce giant Pinduoduo.
Pinduoduo is not the only Chinese tech firm accused of overworking employees. Short video platform Kuaishou asked all employees to work an extra day every two weeks ahead of its February 4 initial public offering (IPO) in Hong Kong.
At TikTok operator ByteDance, employees have to work a six-day week every fortnight, while telecoms giant Huawei Technologies Co routinely asks staff for a six-day week every month in return for extra pay or compensation leave.
“Winners take all, big fish eat small fish, fast fish eat slow fish … this type of fierce competition has caused countless workers to pay a huge physical and mental price,” said Yang Guoqing, a lecturer at the Centre of Modern Human Resources Assessment.
The culture of 996, which refers to working 12 hours a day, six days a week, has become an unwritten standard for many of the country’s tech firms.
...
How did tech leaders respond to the 996 backlash?
As the debate intensified, Jack Ma emerged as one of 996’s staunchest supporters.
The billionaire founder of Alibaba Group Holding, the parent company of the South China Morning Post, called the harsh schedule:
“a huge blessing that many companies and employees don’t have the opportunity to have”, adding that it was the same work ethic that helped propel China’s tech giants to their size and status today".
Ma also called on Alibaba employees to embrace 996. “If you join Alibaba, you should get ready to work 12 hours a day, otherwise why do you come to Alibaba? We don’t need those who comfortably work 8 hours,” he said.
Essentially, the PRC want's to reign in business, partly due to inequality, but also do to fear of Chinese citizen backlash. In reality, this is Xi taking more control of corporations.
Jack Ma disappeared from public sight after he gave a controversial speech on October 24, and criticised China’s “pawnshop financial regulators and state-owned banks.” He also called for a reform of China’s regulation system for stifling business innovation and likened global banking regulations to an 'old people's club'. Jack Ma’s company Ant Group was supposed to make what was supposed to be the world’s biggest IPO offering in Shanghai and Hong Kong. However, the regulators suspended the $37billion IPO two days before it was going to take place.
It appears that China's rapid economic growth has hit its S curve. China looks even less likely to ever exceed the U.S. GDP, which was expected to happen by 2028, but is certainly delayed;
China’s labor force—those ages 15 to 59—peaked in 2014, and has been shrinking since then, including a 0.5% decline in 2020, according to Capital Economics, which expects China’s GDP growth to slow to about 2% by 2030. That is roughly the same as the expected U.S. long-term growth rate.
Chinese leader Xi Jinping “appears to be working to regain China’s place in history before demographic decline sets in,” said Arvind Subramanian, an economist at the Peterson Institute for International Economics.
The U.S. also has plenty of long-term challenges to growth, including a sharply divided political system, mounting bills for healthcare and slow productivity growth.
But the GDP race provides just one way to view relative economic strength. Derek Scissors, an American Enterprise Institute economist, says that GDP, a gauge of national output, doesn’t accurately measure power. Wealth does. Aircraft carriers and overseas investments are paid out of a country’s wealth, not its GDP, he says.
I'm guessing that 995 is still A-Okay.
I'd also surmise that a 40 hour work wee seems to be a better balance.
Nice spin!
You are right! He lied about 996 was standard for decades. Chinese workers have been working eight hours a day, five days a week for decades. Only in the last year or so Alibaba CEO began urging your people to work 996. On the other hand, here in silicon valley, high tech firms have people working for long hours. For example, Google has cafeteria that serves meals 24 hours a day for free.
The reason why products are cheaper in China are because of lack of labor laws. So they use child labor, forced labor, slave labor, etc. They also have few environmental protection laws. This also makes it cheaper to produce products. US products do have these restrictions, so it is more expensive to produce products in the United States. Companies like Apple go to China for their products becauset is cheaper .. but then they should not pretend to be so environmentally conscious and they should not pretend to be so socially conscious. By simply producing their products in China, they are not either.
China has moved its population from poverty to mostly middle class in a very short period of time. They not only do not support the abuses you claim, they are eliminating them. But, their people do have pride in their country and their work and the government eliminating the 996 standard was controversial.
On the other hand, look at our own southern neighbors for real poverty, crime and corruption where their people have little hope of living a decent life -- or even our own country where the mother of a minority fears for her children's lives anytime they are outside of the house.
Only just last month did the PRC's "Supreme People's Court" deem 996 illegal. How wonderful given the decades that 996 was the standard.
The dark side of working for China’s booming technology industry often comes under the spotlight when a worker dies on the job, as was the case in January this year with the death of two employees at social commerce giant Pinduoduo.
Pinduoduo is not the only Chinese tech firm accused of overworking employees. Short video platform Kuaishou asked all employees to work an extra day every two weeks ahead of its February 4 initial public offering (IPO) in Hong Kong.
At TikTok operator ByteDance, employees have to work a six-day week every fortnight, while telecoms giant Huawei Technologies Co routinely asks staff for a six-day week every month in return for extra pay or compensation leave.
“Winners take all, big fish eat small fish, fast fish eat slow fish … this type of fierce competition has caused countless workers to pay a huge physical and mental price,” said Yang Guoqing, a lecturer at the Centre of Modern Human Resources Assessment.
The culture of 996, which refers to working 12 hours a day, six days a week, has become an unwritten standard for many of the country’s tech firms.
...
How did tech leaders respond to the 996 backlash?
As the debate intensified, Jack Ma emerged as one of 996’s staunchest supporters.
The billionaire founder of Alibaba Group Holding, the parent company of the South China Morning Post, called the harsh schedule:
“a huge blessing that many companies and employees don’t have the opportunity to have”, adding that it was the same work ethic that helped propel China’s tech giants to their size and status today".
Ma also called on Alibaba employees to embrace 996. “If you join Alibaba, you should get ready to work 12 hours a day, otherwise why do you come to Alibaba? We don’t need those who comfortably work 8 hours,” he said.
Essentially, the PRC want's to reign in business, partly due to inequality, but also do to fear of Chinese citizen backlash. In reality, this is Xi taking more control of corporations.
Jack Ma disappeared from public sight after he gave a controversial speech on October 24, and criticised China’s “pawnshop financial regulators and state-owned banks.” He also called for a reform of China’s regulation system for stifling business innovation and likened global banking regulations to an 'old people's club'. Jack Ma’s company Ant Group was supposed to make what was supposed to be the world’s biggest IPO offering in Shanghai and Hong Kong. However, the regulators suspended the $37billion IPO two days before it was going to take place.
It appears that China's rapid economic growth has hit its S curve. China looks even less likely to ever exceed the U.S. GDP, which was expected to happen by 2028, but is certainly delayed;
China’s labor force—those ages 15 to 59—peaked in 2014, and has been shrinking since then, including a 0.5% decline in 2020, according to Capital Economics, which expects China’s GDP growth to slow to about 2% by 2030. That is roughly the same as the expected U.S. long-term growth rate.
Chinese leader Xi Jinping “appears to be working to regain China’s place in history before demographic decline sets in,” said Arvind Subramanian, an economist at the Peterson Institute for International Economics.
The U.S. also has plenty of long-term challenges to growth, including a sharply divided political system, mounting bills for healthcare and slow productivity growth.
But the GDP race provides just one way to view relative economic strength. Derek Scissors, an American Enterprise Institute economist, says that GDP, a gauge of national output, doesn’t accurately measure power. Wealth does. Aircraft carriers and overseas investments are paid out of a country’s wealth, not its GDP, he says.
I'm guessing that 995 is still A-Okay.
I'd also surmise that a 40 hour work wee seems to be a better balance.
Nice spin!
Thanks!
But not spin; informed.
It's so little effort, really, what with Google Search, or whatever your favorite search engine, and an open system of government, Democracy, that allows most of the world access to a wide range of information needed to make informed decisions, and frankly, to live better.
You should try it.
Just type in what you are looking for in the browser bar, unless of course, you happen to live in an authoritarian state.
Then, it doesn't really work all that well.
But you can ask Waveparticle about that; he'd know.
No thanks! I start with facts and use them to reach my conclusion -- rather than starting with my ideological conclusion and justifying it with propaganda I found on the internet.
It's so little effort, really, what with Google Search, or whatever your favorite search engine, and an open system of government, Democracy, that allows most of the world access to a wide range of information needed to make informed decisions, and frankly, to live better.
You should try it.
Just type in what you are looking for in the browser bar, unless of course, you happen to live in an authoritarian state.
Then, it doesn't really work all that well.
But you can ask Waveparticle about that; he'd know.
No thanks! I start with facts and use them to reach my conclusion -- rather than starting with my ideological conclusion and justifying it with propaganda I found on the internet.
The Chinese Government's officially sanctioned newspaper the Global Times notwithstanding of course. So what is this propaganda-free news source you read for your reliable non-biased facts? Certainly not that one. This is not a hard question, yet one I expect you'll reply to with something non-specific, maybe totally unrelated to what I asked, and likely to fail logic. https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/
It's so little effort, really, what with Google Search, or whatever your favorite search engine, and an open system of government, Democracy, that allows most of the world access to a wide range of information needed to make informed decisions, and frankly, to live better.
You should try it.
Just type in what you are looking for in the browser bar, unless of course, you happen to live in an authoritarian state.
Then, it doesn't really work all that well.
But you can ask Waveparticle about that; he'd know.
No thanks! I start with facts and use them to reach my conclusion -- rather than starting with my ideological conclusion and justifying it with propaganda I found on the internet.
The Chinese Government's officially sanctioned newspaper the Global Times notwithstanding of course. So what is this propaganda-free news source you read for your reliable non-biased facts? Certainly not that one. This is not a hard question, yet one I expect you'll reply to with something non-specific, maybe totally unrelated to what I asked, and likely to fail logic. https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/
GT obviously appeals to your sensibilities, but just the same, and if I were you, I'd avoid a trip to the PRC to meet your master, Xi. There's that hostage thing that they have going;
China was sending a message not just to Canada, but to every other country in the world that they take hostages. And if you step out of line from their policies or don’t toe the line the way Beijing has instructed you to do, then they will take retaliatory action and kidnap your citizens,” said Margaret McCuaig-Johnston, a senior fellow at the University of Ottawa’s graduate school of public and international affairs. “This is the behaviour of a medieval kingdom – not a 2021 superpower.”
I like that "medieval kingdom" part. Reminds me of GoT, and likely as brutal.
It's so little effort, really, what with Google Search, or whatever your favorite search engine, and an open system of government, Democracy, that allows most of the world access to a wide range of information needed to make informed decisions, and frankly, to live better.
You should try it.
Just type in what you are looking for in the browser bar, unless of course, you happen to live in an authoritarian state.
Then, it doesn't really work all that well.
But you can ask Waveparticle about that; he'd know.
No thanks! I start with facts and use them to reach my conclusion -- rather than starting with my ideological conclusion and justifying it with propaganda I found on the internet.
The Chinese Government's officially sanctioned newspaper the Global Times notwithstanding of course. So what is this propaganda-free news source you read for your reliable non-biased facts? Certainly not that one. This is not a hard question, yet one I expect you'll reply to with something non-specific, maybe totally unrelated to what I asked, and likely to fail logic. https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/
GT obviously appeals to your sensibilities, but just the same, and if I were you, I'd avoid a trip to the PRC to meet your master, Xi. There's that hostage thing that they have going;
China was sending a message not just to Canada, but to every other country in the world that they take hostages. And if you step out of line from their policies or don’t toe the line the way Beijing has instructed you to do, then they will take retaliatory action and kidnap your citizens,” said Margaret McCuaig-Johnston, a senior fellow at the University of Ottawa’s graduate school of public and international affairs. “This is the behaviour of a medieval kingdom – not a 2021 superpower.”
I like that "medieval kingdom" part. Reminds me of GoT, and likely as brutal.
It's refreshing to see counterpoint from the constant barrage of hate coming from those who fear that China will replace them as the world's largest economy.
For myself, I take the Tom Brady approach to the Patrick Mahomes (predicted to be the future great QB) -- I work harder to make myself better rather than try to tear the other down with trash talk. To the consternation of the China Haters, China continues to do the same.
It's so little effort, really, what with Google Search, or whatever your favorite search engine, and an open system of government, Democracy, that allows most of the world access to a wide range of information needed to make informed decisions, and frankly, to live better.
You should try it.
Just type in what you are looking for in the browser bar, unless of course, you happen to live in an authoritarian state.
Then, it doesn't really work all that well.
But you can ask Waveparticle about that; he'd know.
No thanks! I start with facts and use them to reach my conclusion -- rather than starting with my ideological conclusion and justifying it with propaganda I found on the internet.
The Chinese Government's officially sanctioned newspaper the Global Times notwithstanding of course. So what is this propaganda-free news source you read for your reliable non-biased facts? Certainly not that one. This is not a hard question, yet one I expect you'll reply to with something non-specific, maybe totally unrelated to what I asked, and likely to fail logic. https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/
GT obviously appeals to your sensibilities, but just the same, and if I were you, I'd avoid a trip to the PRC to meet your master, Xi. There's that hostage thing that they have going;
China was sending a message not just to Canada, but to every other country in the world that they take hostages. And if you step out of line from their policies or don’t toe the line the way Beijing has instructed you to do, then they will take retaliatory action and kidnap your citizens,” said Margaret McCuaig-Johnston, a senior fellow at the University of Ottawa’s graduate school of public and international affairs. “This is the behaviour of a medieval kingdom – not a 2021 superpower.”
I like that "medieval kingdom" part. Reminds me of GoT, and likely as brutal.
It's refreshing to see counterpoint from the constant barrage of hate coming from those who fear that China will replace them as the world's largest economy.
For myself, I take the Tom Brady approach to the Patrick Mahomes (predicted to be the future great QB) -- I work harder to make myself better rather than try to tear the other down with trash talk. To the consternation of the China Haters, China continues to do the same.
So, you're back with your "hate" complaint again, as if PRC propaganda is "refreshing", which is an odd comment.
The fear is not that China will overtake the U.S. GDP, rather, that China will to use its newly minted and enlarged military to bully its neighbors and threaten the world.
KARACHI -- A staggering $385 billion of Chinese debt to other countries has been hidden from the World Bank and IMF thanks to the way the loans are structured, U.S.-based AidData said on Wednesday in its latest version of the Global Chinese Official Finance Dataset. The report also alleges that a major portion of Chinese development financing in Pakistan is composed of expensive loans.
The AidData report claims Beijing has made its overseas development finance nontransparent. It says that China systematically underreports its debt to the World Bank's Debtor Reporting System by lending money to private companies in lower middle income countries by using special purpose vehicles (SPVs), rather than to state institutions.
This makes it difficult for debtors and multilateral lenders to assess the costs and benefits of participating in the Belt and Road Initiative. It also heightens the possibility of debtors falling into debt traps with only one way to climb out: by selling geopolitically important assets to China.
The report further says that due to debt spending by China under the banner of the Belt and Road Initiative, 42 countries now have levels of public debt exposure to China in excess of 10% of GDP. For instance, the China Exim Bank-financed China-Laos railway project, valued at $5.9 billion -- equivalent to roughly one-third of Laos' GDP -- is funded exclusively with hidden debt.
China's "soft power" works hand in hand with its military expansionism, and any student of history would want to prevent that, given it would be a threat to world peace.
You have sided, over and over again with the PRC's authoritarianism. I prefer the existing rules of order.
We certainly are on opposite positions on the PRC.
I'm in agreement with Gatorguy; I too have better uses of my time than "debating" your views on China.
It's so little effort, really, what with Google Search, or whatever your favorite search engine, and an open system of government, Democracy, that allows most of the world access to a wide range of information needed to make informed decisions, and frankly, to live better.
You should try it.
Just type in what you are looking for in the browser bar, unless of course, you happen to live in an authoritarian state.
Then, it doesn't really work all that well.
But you can ask Waveparticle about that; he'd know.
No thanks! I start with facts and use them to reach my conclusion -- rather than starting with my ideological conclusion and justifying it with propaganda I found on the internet.
The Chinese Government's officially sanctioned newspaper the Global Times notwithstanding of course. So what is this propaganda-free news source you read for your reliable non-biased facts? Certainly not that one. This is not a hard question, yet one I expect you'll reply to with something non-specific, maybe totally unrelated to what I asked, and likely to fail logic. https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/
GT obviously appeals to your sensibilities, but just the same, and if I were you, I'd avoid a trip to the PRC to meet your master, Xi. There's that hostage thing that they have going;
China was sending a message not just to Canada, but to every other country in the world that they take hostages. And if you step out of line from their policies or don’t toe the line the way Beijing has instructed you to do, then they will take retaliatory action and kidnap your citizens,” said Margaret McCuaig-Johnston, a senior fellow at the University of Ottawa’s graduate school of public and international affairs. “This is the behaviour of a medieval kingdom – not a 2021 superpower.”
I like that "medieval kingdom" part. Reminds me of GoT, and likely as brutal.
It's refreshing to see counterpoint from the constant barrage of hate coming from those who fear that China will replace them as the world's largest economy.
For myself, I take the Tom Brady approach to the Patrick Mahomes (predicted to be the future great QB) -- I work harder to make myself better rather than try to tear the other down with trash talk. To the consternation of the China Haters, China continues to do the same.
So, you're back with your "hate" complaint again, as if PRC propaganda is "refreshing", which is an odd comment.
The fear is not that China will overtake the U.S. GDP, rather, that China will to use its newly minted and enlarged military to bully its neighbors and threaten the world.
KARACHI -- A staggering $385 billion of Chinese debt to other countries has been hidden from the World Bank and IMF thanks to the way the loans are structured, U.S.-based AidData said on Wednesday in its latest version of the Global Chinese Official Finance Dataset. The report also alleges that a major portion of Chinese development financing in Pakistan is composed of expensive loans.
The AidData report claims Beijing has made its overseas development finance nontransparent. It says that China systematically underreports its debt to the World Bank's Debtor Reporting System by lending money to private companies in lower middle income countries by using special purpose vehicles (SPVs), rather than to state institutions.
This makes it difficult for debtors and multilateral lenders to assess the costs and benefits of participating in the Belt and Road Initiative. It also heightens the possibility of debtors falling into debt traps with only one way to climb out: by selling geopolitically important assets to China.
The report further says that due to debt spending by China under the banner of the Belt and Road Initiative, 42 countries now have levels of public debt exposure to China in excess of 10% of GDP. For instance, the China Exim Bank-financed China-Laos railway project, valued at $5.9 billion -- equivalent to roughly one-third of Laos' GDP -- is funded exclusively with hidden debt.
China's "soft power" works hand in hand with its military expansionism, and any student of history would want to prevent that, given it would be a threat to world peace.
You have sided, over and over again with the PRC's authoritarianism. I prefer the existing rules of order.
We certainly are on opposite positions on the PRC.
I'm in agreement with Gatorguy; I too have better uses of my time than "debating" your views on China.
See ya!
So your hate (manifesting in an unending stream of Trumpian smears and trash talk) stems from your fear that China is overtaking the U.S. not only economically but in its influence and connections throughout the world. That's what I've been saying.
So we both love the U.S. Where we differ is whether the U.S. should try to tear China down or strive to improve itself.
For instance, as China tries to build up impoverished nations and improve the lot of their peoples for mutual benefit, we build walls trying to keep those people out of our country -- while doing nothing to help them improve so they don't have to migrate (or worse: invading them, killing their children, trying to remake them in our image).
It's not that I love China -- but rather that I approve of their approach and think that ours is misguided and headed in the wrong direction.
We saw 50 years ago how we were at risk of losing the cold war with the Soviet Union and weaned China away from them over onto our side. But now you China Haters are pushing them back into alliance with Putin's Russia and the combination is not good for the future of the U.S.
We already pissed off Russia and shown ourselves to be a threat to them by stirring revolt in Ukraine. Now we're trying the same in Taiwan. So, we're making them natural allies against us. That's just f-n stupid and it won't end well for us.
Kissinger was right: we need China as a friend rather than an enemy. But your hate for China is hurting the country you profess to support.
Your approach is based on the same misguided thinking that got our asses kicked in Afghanistan: thinking the U.S. has unlimited power and unlimited resources and can not only do anything it wants but it can dictate to the rest of the world how they should run their countries.
Comments
See my second link, above.
No thanks! I start with facts and use them to reach my conclusion -- rather than starting with my ideological conclusion and justifying it with propaganda I found on the internet.
https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/
I wait to be surprised .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Times
The Global Times (simplified Chinese: 环球时报; traditional Chinese: 環球時報; pinyin: Huánqiú Shíbào) is a daily tabloid newspaper under the auspices of the Chinese Communist Party's flagship People's Daily newspaper, commenting on international issues from a nationalistic perspective.[1][2][3][4] The newspaper has been the source of various incidents, including fabrications and disinformation.[note 1]
The publication has been labelled as "China's Fox News" by some scholars and writers for its propagandistic slant and the monetization of nationalism.[12][13] It is part of a broader set of Chinese state media outlets that constitute the Chinese government's propaganda apparatus.[14][15] The Global Times has published COVID-19 misinformation and conspiracy theories.[note 2]
GT obviously appeals to your sensibilities, but just the same, and if I were you, I'd avoid a trip to the PRC to meet your master, Xi. There's that hostage thing that they have going;
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/29/meng-wanzhou-michael-kovrig-michael-spavor-china-analysis
I like that "medieval kingdom" part. Reminds me of GoT, and likely as brutal.
The fear is not that China will overtake the U.S. GDP, rather, that China will to use its newly minted and enlarged military to bully its neighbors and threaten the world.
https://www.academics4nation.org/post/6-factors-that-make-china-a-threat-world-peace-stability
Then of course, there is the Belt and Road Initiative;
https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Belt-and-Road/385bn-of-China-s-Belt-and-Road-lending-kept-undisclosed-report
China's "soft power" works hand in hand with its military expansionism, and any student of history would want to prevent that, given it would be a threat to world peace.
You have sided, over and over again with the PRC's authoritarianism. I prefer the existing rules of order.
We certainly are on opposite positions on the PRC.
I'm in agreement with Gatorguy; I too have better uses of my time than "debating" your views on China.
See ya!