Breaking Through Compute Intensive Barriers - IBM's New 64-bit PowerPC Microprocessor
Peter Sandon, Senior Processor Architect, Power PC Organization,
IBM Microelectronics IBM is disclosing the technical details of a new 64-bit PowerPC microprocessor designed for desktops and entry-level servers. Based on the award winning Power4 design, this processor is an 8-way superscalar design that fully supports Symmetric MultiProcessing. The processor is further enhanced by a vector processing unit implementing over 160 specialized vector instructions and implements a system interface capable of up to 6.4GB/s."
That sounds like the baby.
Baby, it's you.
Lemon Bon Bon
PS. (unzipping...wallet...) :eek:
PPS. Sounds like IBM will be opening a can of whoop-ass on x86 land...
BTW, that G4 info sounds about right to me -- MOT is shipping 1.4ghz G4's to Apple soon, and it's pretty likely that they'll reach 1.8ghz -- I don't know how much higher, though.
There is no G5 in the sense of "the next generation chip from Motorola for use in Apple's computers" -- but it is quite possible that Apple will use the name "G5" regardless... or perhaps they want a clean break, and will name it something else entirely.
In any event, this should put to rest all of the naysayers who refused to believe that anything POWER4 or POWER4-derrived could possibly be used by Apple. This chip certainly has all the right specs, doesn't it? High bandwidth, scalable architecture, vector instructions, meant for desktop computers and low-end servers. Sounds almost tailor-made for Apple... mmmmm, quite a coincidence
New Powermac with 1.4 GHz G4 processor, 333MHz DDR RAM, fast bus, ultra ATA 133, USB 2, Firwire 2, Airport 2, bluetooth is at least what Apple need to put on the market next month... 1.8 GHz will be better and 2.0 GHz will be the best (Moto still Apple providers).
Now, if Apple switch to IBM, for the Pro line then don't worry, the XMac/XBook will be very very fast...
The question is when will this IBM processor been in mass production for Apples use. Many times chips are discussed at the microproccessor forum in october that are not released until 9 months or more later.
I could see these in the Powermac line and a future x86 in a new BMac line for business.
[quote]Sounz like they're saying the G4 has "legs" (for the non-Pro side of the market ... IMO).<hr></blockquote>
Maybe IBM's desktop descendants for "pro" desktops and G4.7 for consumer/portable machines? PowerPC is getting interesting again.
Although it isn't from Motorola, this mystery chip from IBM could be described as a "fifth generation" POWER CPU, possibly being a descendant of the POWER 4. AFAIK, POWER and PowerPC are software (i.e. instruction set) compatible, but POWER is more, urm, "beefy" (multicore, faster memory, huge caches, use the 64bit instructions, more superscalar, etc..) due to the different target markets. Anyone know any more about the PowerPC/POWER relationship?
Each Power4 core has only 30M transistors, very similar to most other desktop CPUs. Does this include the L2 cache (1.5MB)? How would this perform? Does this have anything to do with this new processor?
While I respect your efforts in making the discussions of this board interesting, I fail to understand how you can correlate this with the convictions that you have aired (or "hinted at" - your preferred MOO?) in another thread on this venerable board - that Apple will introduce OSX on hardware built around Intel/AMD CPU's ???
<strong>BTW, that G4 info sounds about right to me -- MOT is shipping 1.4ghz G4's to Apple soon, and it's pretty likely that they'll reach 1.8ghz -- I don't know how much higher, though.
There is no G5 in the sense of "the next generation chip from Motorola for use in Apple's computers" -- but it is quite possible that Apple will use the name "G5" regardless... or perhaps they want a clean break, and will name it something else entirely.
In any event, this should put to rest all of the naysayers who refused to believe that anything POWER4 or POWER4-derrived could possibly be used by Apple. This chip certainly has all the right specs, doesn't it? High bandwidth, scalable architecture, vector instructions, meant for desktop computers and low-end servers. Sounds almost tailor-made for Apple... mmmmm, quite a coincidence </strong><hr></blockquote>
While I respect your efforts in making the discussions of this board interesting, I fail to understand how you can correlate this with the convictions that you have aired (or "hinted at" - your preferred MOO?) in another thread on this venerable board - that Apple will introduce OSX on hardware built around Intel/AMD CPU's ???
</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you bothered to read what Moki posted, you'd see that he was suggesting that Apple would build both PowerPC and x86 based Macintoshes. Apple would then be able to get into markets where an x86 is required and it could (if it needed to) more easily find second source manufacturers.
It seems as if IBM (and hopefully/maybe Apple) wanted this information released to counteract the analyst who commented that Apple will be switching to X86 soon. If apple honestly has no plans to switch to X86 ever, it would be in their best interest to destroy any rumors that say otherwise. Apple does not need customers putting off purchases because they think Apple will eventually switch. The fact that they said that it was for desktops and that it essentially had altivec is all they needed to say for mac users, hungry for rumors, to jump on the "IBM is the future" bandwagon. Apple knows this as does IBM. They wanted to kill the MacOS on x86 rumors, and this is their way of starting the process.
<strong>It seems as if IBM (and hopefully/maybe Apple) wanted this information released to counteract the analyst who commented that Apple will be switching to X86 soon. If apple honestly has no plans to switch to X86 ever, it would be in their best interest to destroy any rumors that say otherwise. Apple does not need customers putting off purchases because they think Apple will eventually switch. The fact that they said that it was for desktops and that it essentially had altivec is all they needed to say for mac users, hungry for rumors, to jump on the "IBM is the future" bandwagon. Apple knows this as does IBM. They wanted to kill the MacOS on x86 rumors, and this is their way of starting the process.</strong><hr></blockquote>
But does this mean no better G4 next week? Or is this IBM chip a *very* long way off?
The IBM chip sounds very useful for Shake etc, especially as this will be 2x current speed (1GHz 'Gx' = 2GHz G4), but as a laptop fan myself I wonder where we will go from here?
Do MPC7470/7460s exist? Will the switch come soon? How do PC users manage in their predictable rumourless world?
But does this mean no better G4 next week? Or is this IBM chip a *very* long way off?
The IBM chip sounds very useful for Shake etc, especially as this will be 2x current speed (1GHz 'Gx' = 2GHz G4), but as a laptop fan myself I wonder where we will go from here?
Do MPC7470/7460s exist? Will the switch come soon? How do PC users manage in their predictable rumourless world?</strong><hr></blockquote>
The G4s should be same G4s but with DDR and bus to 166 in a new case possibly the leaked photos. The IBM chip should be here by next summer or so.
<strong>The question is when will this IBM processor been in mass production for Apples use. Many times chips are discussed at the microproccessor forum in october that are not released until 9 months or more later.</strong><hr></blockquote>
9 month to a year -- yeah, sounds about right. Speed bumped G4's until then (but in some pretty worthwhile increments and motherboards).
[quote]Originally posted by Producer:
<strong>I could see these in the Powermac line and a future x86 in a new BMac line for business.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly. Or you might never see the x86-based Macs -- many contingency projects never see the light of day. People who claim "Apple will never go to x86" are ignoring that Apple *has* ported their OS to x86 -- a project code-named Star Trek years go. It was just never completed or released.
This one, on the other hand, stands a much better chance, IMHO.
So Moki, when would you guess this thing will hit the streets?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I really have no idea -- I'd just be guessing -- 9 months to a year maybe? Knowing what is going on in general is easy -- specifics of when products are going to be released, etc. -- anyone who knows that would be under serious NDA (and the truth is, release cycles are not set in stone anyway).
I will say that IBM has been working on this for some time (obviously -- things like new microprocessors don't just appear). Nice that they have a spiffy new plant in which to produce them, too.
Comments
Breaking Through Compute Intensive Barriers - IBM's New 64-bit PowerPC Microprocessor
Peter Sandon, Senior Processor Architect, Power PC Organization,
IBM Microelectronics IBM is disclosing the technical details of a new 64-bit PowerPC microprocessor designed for desktops and entry-level servers. Based on the award winning Power4 design, this processor is an 8-way superscalar design that fully supports Symmetric MultiProcessing. The processor is further enhanced by a vector processing unit implementing over 160 specialized vector instructions and implements a system interface capable of up to 6.4GB/s."
That sounds like the baby.
Baby, it's you.
Lemon Bon Bon
PS. (unzipping...wallet...) :eek:
PPS. Sounds like IBM will be opening a can of whoop-ass on x86 land...
[ 08-08-2002: Message edited by: Lemon Bon Bon ]</p>
There is no G5 in the sense of "the next generation chip from Motorola for use in Apple's computers" -- but it is quite possible that Apple will use the name "G5" regardless... or perhaps they want a clean break, and will name it something else entirely.
In any event, this should put to rest all of the naysayers who refused to believe that anything POWER4 or POWER4-derrived could possibly be used by Apple. This chip certainly has all the right specs, doesn't it? High bandwidth, scalable architecture, vector instructions, meant for desktop computers and low-end servers. Sounds almost tailor-made for Apple... mmmmm, quite a coincidence
Moki, you're such a tease...
Lemon Bon Bon
Now, if Apple switch to IBM, for the Pro line then don't worry, the XMac/XBook will be very very fast...
Aw
I could see these in the Powermac line and a future x86 in a new BMac line for business.
Maybe IBM's desktop descendants for "pro" desktops and G4.7 for consumer/portable machines? PowerPC is getting interesting again.
Although it isn't from Motorola, this mystery chip from IBM could be described as a "fifth generation" POWER CPU, possibly being a descendant of the POWER 4. AFAIK, POWER and PowerPC are software (i.e. instruction set) compatible, but POWER is more, urm, "beefy" (multicore, faster memory, huge caches, use the 64bit instructions, more superscalar, etc..) due to the different target markets. Anyone know any more about the PowerPC/POWER relationship?
Each Power4 core has only 30M transistors, very similar to most other desktop CPUs. Does this include the L2 cache (1.5MB)? How would this perform? Does this have anything to do with this new processor?
While I respect your efforts in making the discussions of this board interesting, I fail to understand how you can correlate this with the convictions that you have aired (or "hinted at" - your preferred MOO?) in another thread on this venerable board - that Apple will introduce OSX on hardware built around Intel/AMD CPU's ???
Was that the longest sentence posted on AI? :-)
engpjp
<strong>BTW, that G4 info sounds about right to me -- MOT is shipping 1.4ghz G4's to Apple soon, and it's pretty likely that they'll reach 1.8ghz -- I don't know how much higher, though.
There is no G5 in the sense of "the next generation chip from Motorola for use in Apple's computers" -- but it is quite possible that Apple will use the name "G5" regardless... or perhaps they want a clean break, and will name it something else entirely.
In any event, this should put to rest all of the naysayers who refused to believe that anything POWER4 or POWER4-derrived could possibly be used by Apple. This chip certainly has all the right specs, doesn't it? High bandwidth, scalable architecture, vector instructions, meant for desktop computers and low-end servers. Sounds almost tailor-made for Apple... mmmmm, quite a coincidence
Weren't you trying to destroy your credibility
<strong>Moki,
While I respect your efforts in making the discussions of this board interesting, I fail to understand how you can correlate this with the convictions that you have aired (or "hinted at" - your preferred MOO?) in another thread on this venerable board - that Apple will introduce OSX on hardware built around Intel/AMD CPU's ???
</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you bothered to read what Moki posted, you'd see that he was suggesting that Apple would build both PowerPC and x86 based Macintoshes. Apple would then be able to get into markets where an x86 is required and it could (if it needed to) more easily find second source manufacturers.
<strong>
Sounds almost tailor-made for Apple... mmmmm, quite a coincidence
So Moki, when would you guess this thing will hit the streets?
You're still my hero though
<strong>It seems as if IBM (and hopefully/maybe Apple) wanted this information released to counteract the analyst who commented that Apple will be switching to X86 soon. If apple honestly has no plans to switch to X86 ever, it would be in their best interest to destroy any rumors that say otherwise. Apple does not need customers putting off purchases because they think Apple will eventually switch. The fact that they said that it was for desktops and that it essentially had altivec is all they needed to say for mac users, hungry for rumors, to jump on the "IBM is the future" bandwagon. Apple knows this as does IBM. They wanted to kill the MacOS on x86 rumors, and this is their way of starting the process.</strong><hr></blockquote>
But does this mean no better G4 next week? Or is this IBM chip a *very* long way off?
The IBM chip sounds very useful for Shake etc, especially as this will be 2x current speed (1GHz 'Gx' = 2GHz G4), but as a laptop fan myself I wonder where we will go from here?
Do MPC7470/7460s exist? Will the switch come soon? How do PC users manage in their predictable rumourless world?
All gayness aside... Moki come on!!
Somehow I cannot help but think this POWER4 variant was an IBM/Apple hybrid.
Speaking of Deep Mac, no new rumors from that direction, at least nothing different from what's already been posted here and other places.
My wallet is on standby. When these machines surface I'll be there to pick one up whenever that is.
Apple moving to Intel...hmmm, doubtful unless Apple decides to build a dedicated box designed to ease a migration effort.
<strong>Well it looks like Deep Mac wasn't too far off the mark afterall.
Speaking of Deep Mac, no new rumors from that direction, at least nothing different from what's already been posted here and other places.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
What did deepmac predict?
[ 08-08-2002: Message edited by: Rhumgod ]</p>
<strong>
But does this mean no better G4 next week? Or is this IBM chip a *very* long way off?
The IBM chip sounds very useful for Shake etc, especially as this will be 2x current speed (1GHz 'Gx' = 2GHz G4), but as a laptop fan myself I wonder where we will go from here?
Do MPC7470/7460s exist? Will the switch come soon? How do PC users manage in their predictable rumourless world?</strong><hr></blockquote>
The G4s should be same G4s but with DDR and bus to 166 in a new case possibly the leaked photos. The IBM chip should be here by next summer or so.
<strong>The question is when will this IBM processor been in mass production for Apples use. Many times chips are discussed at the microproccessor forum in october that are not released until 9 months or more later.</strong><hr></blockquote>
9 month to a year -- yeah, sounds about right. Speed bumped G4's until then (but in some pretty worthwhile increments and motherboards).
[quote]Originally posted by Producer:
<strong>I could see these in the Powermac line and a future x86 in a new BMac line for business.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly. Or you might never see the x86-based Macs -- many contingency projects never see the light of day. People who claim "Apple will never go to x86" are ignoring that Apple *has* ported their OS to x86 -- a project code-named Star Trek years go. It was just never completed or released.
This one, on the other hand, stands a much better chance, IMHO.
<strong>
So Moki, when would you guess this thing will hit the streets?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I really have no idea -- I'd just be guessing -- 9 months to a year maybe? Knowing what is going on in general is easy -- specifics of when products are going to be released, etc. -- anyone who knows that would be under serious NDA (and the truth is, release cycles are not set in stone anyway).
I will say that IBM has been working on this for some time (obviously -- things like new microprocessors don't just appear). Nice that they have a spiffy new plant in which to produce them, too.