Epic says Apple doesn't meet the mark to stay App Store injunction

Posted:
in General Discussion
Epic has filed its opposition to Apple's appeal that requested a stay on changes to the App Store, claiming Apple hasn't done enough to legally prove it will be irreparably harmed by the changes, even if they are temporary.




In U.S. District Court Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers' September ruling in the Epic-Apple lawsuit, Apple was ordered to make changes to some App Store policies. While Apple appealed the ruling on October 8, asking for a stay on the injunction, Epic has made a filing of its own arguing against Apple's appeal on the matter.

The App Store policy changes outlined by the judge include alterations to the "anti-steering" provisions, namely rules that prevent developers from telling consumers within apps that they could pay for in-app purchases and subscriptions in other ways than through the App Store's In-App Purchasing mechanism. Other related restrictions affect how developers communicate to app users.

Apple's October appeal and motion to stay the ruling aimed to put a halt to the rule changes, which Apple would have to implement by December 9, but Epic naturally disagrees with the request.

In its new filing on Friday, as spotted by Reuters, Epic offer to the court that a stay shouldn't be allowed in this instance, as Apple does not meet the legal standard for it. That standard requires Apple to demonstrate it faces irreparable harm by complying with the order, even if it is only temporary and is reversed on appeal.

Epic's reasoning for this includes Apple's comments about the ruling being positive in nature. The delay in Apple's filing to pause the injunction is also an apparent sign to Epic that the iPhone maker wouldn't necessarily be harmed.

"The public interest favors denying (Apple's appeal); an injunction is the only path to effective relief," Epic's argument reads. "History shows that in the absence of an injunction, Apple will not make any changes."

The court will be making a decision on Apple's appeal during a hearing scheduled for November 9.

Apple has still made some changes to its App Store developer guidelines surrounding anti-steering provisions, updating the rules on October 22. The changes include allowing developers more flexibility in contacting users to advertise cheaper prices elsewhere than the App Store, as well as allowing apps to request basic contact information from users.

Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 13
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 1,817member
    Well of COURSE they said that. Epic won't be happy until everything is free for them to profit from.
    foadKTRrob53ericthehalfbeeolsbaconstangwilliamlondonkillroyAppleUfmyIleavingthebigg
  • Reply 2 of 13
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,642member
    Crazy how we’re even giving people the idea tthat hey can rule a company they don’t own. These lawsuits should have been laughed at and dismissed day one.

    But since we give them attention…

    I’m gonna sue Wal-Mart if they don’t build a store next to my house and sell my homemade food in their deli for free. If they want a profit from me that’s anti-competitive, they should be working for me for free.
    edited October 23 qwerty52olskillroyuraharaEsquireCatsBosaF_Kent_DAppleUfmyIleavingthebiggwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 13
    KTRKTR Posts: 192member
    Beats said:
    Crazy how we’re even giving people the idea tthat hey can rule a company they don’t own. These lawsuits should have been laughed at and dismissed day one.

    But since we give them attention…

    I’m gonna sue Wal-Mart if they don’t build a store next to my house and sell my homemade food in their deli for free. If they want a profit from me that’s anti-competitive, they should be working for me for free.
    Next thing you’re going to know he’s going to want to ask the courts to force Apple to license the iOS to other phone manufacturers….

    rob53olskillroyleavingthebiggwatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 13
    rob53rob53 Posts: 2,723member
    KTR said:
    Beats said:
    Crazy how we’re even giving people the idea tthat hey can rule a company they don’t own. These lawsuits should have been laughed at and dismissed day one.

    But since we give them attention…

    I’m gonna sue Wal-Mart if they don’t build a store next to my house and sell my homemade food in their deli for free. If they want a profit from me that’s anti-competitive, they should be working for me for free.
    Next thing you’re going to know he’s going to want to ask the courts to force Apple to license the iOS to other phone manufacturers….

    Absolutely, because creating something should never be owned by the creator, it should always be free for other (leeching) companies to exploit. Talking about exploiting, I think it might be time for Apple consumers to file a class action lawsuit against Epic for screwing up the Apple ecosystem. We'll add judges and members of Congress to this as well. 99.99% of consumers like the App Store the way it is and there's plenty of other companies doing exactly the same thing Apple is doing yet nobody is complaining.
    williamlondonkillroyBosabshankF_Kent_Dleavingthebiggwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 13
    I think, Epic need just a new CEO.......
    olsJinTechwilliamlondonkillroyF_Kent_Dleavingthebiggwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 13
    JinTechJinTech Posts: 791member
    qwerty52 said:
    I think, Epic need just a new CEO.......
    Or just shut down. 
    williamlondonkillroyDogpersonF_Kent_Dleavingthebiggqwerty52watto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 13
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 1,298member
    rob53 said:
    KTR said:
    Beats said:
    Crazy how we’re even giving people the idea tthat hey can rule a company they don’t own. These lawsuits should have been laughed at and dismissed day one.

    But since we give them attention…

    I’m gonna sue Wal-Mart if they don’t build a store next to my house and sell my homemade food in their deli for free. If they want a profit from me that’s anti-competitive, they should be working for me for free.
    Next thing you’re going to know he’s going to want to ask the courts to force Apple to license the iOS to other phone manufacturers….

    Absolutely, because creating something should never be owned by the creator, it should always be free for other (leeching) companies to exploit. Talking about exploiting, I think it might be time for Apple consumers to file a class action lawsuit against Epic for screwing up the Apple ecosystem. We'll add judges and members of Congress to this as well. 99.99% of consumers like the App Store the way it is and there's plenty of other companies doing exactly the same thing Apple is doing yet nobody is complaining.
    Agreed. For Apple it seems damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Look at the case for books where regulators had a problem with developers (publishers) setting their own prices. It was preferable that Amazon maintain their stranglehold over ebooks and print, eventually running book stores out of business followed by small retail and grocery stores that Walmart had not killed off already.  
    williamlondonkillroyrob53EsquireCatsDogpersonAppleUfmyIleavingthebiggfotoformatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 13
    Apple very recently updated their guidelines:

    • Deleted from 3.1.3. “Developers cannot use information obtained within the app to target individual users outside of the app to use purchasing methods other than in-app purchase (such as sending an individual user an email about other purchasing methods after that individual signs up for an account within the app).”
    • Added 5.1.1 (x). “Apps may request basic contact information (such as name and email address) so long as the request is optional for the user, features and services are not conditional on providing the information, and it complies with all other provisions of these guidelines, including limitations on collecting information from kids.”
    killroytenthousandthingsF_Kent_Dh2pwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 13
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,624moderator
    qwerty52 said:
    I think, Epic need just a new CEO.......
    Epic's CEO is also the controlling shareholder so unless he decides to replace himself, that's not likely to happen. The next major shareholder is Tencent, who would fully back what Sweeney is doing and would likely have encouraged it.

    https://www.pcgamer.com/tim-sweeney-does-not-take-any-orders-from-tencent-says-epic/

    Tencent runs one of the biggest mobile app stores in China:

    https://www.hilborndigital.com/the-top-app-stores-available-in-china/

    Given their big investments in Western gaming companies, it wouldn't be surprising that they want to dominate app/game distribution worldwide and they have 3 obstacles: Apple's App Store, Google's Play Store and Steam. Epic is attacking all 3.

    These lawsuits would benefit Tencent who also has to pay the fee for their popular games to Apple, Google and Valve.
    williamlondonDAalsethtenthousandthingsAppleUfmyIh2pwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 13
    davidwdavidw Posts: 1,374member
    The thing is that Apple was accused of violating CA Unfair Competition Law and not any of CA or US anti-trust laws. How is it that Apple must abide by or force to abide by, CA laws in all States? Is it because they are HQ in CA? Or because the trial took place in CA? Seems that Apple should only have to abide by Judge Gonzales ruling in CA (and other States with such laws.). But it still might be too much trouble logistically or even impossible, for Apple to apply different App Store rules for each State. 

    https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/court-issues-mixed-ruling-in-epic-v-3215543/

    >The court found that Apple was not in violation of antitrust laws, but it did find Apple had violated California’s Unfair Competition Law. The court ordered Apple to allow apps to link to payment mechanisms outside of Apple’s in-app payment system (where Apple collects a 30% commission on every sale). ..........

    Due to its lack of monopoly power and the absence of anticompetitive effects that outweighed procompetitive benefits, the court concluded that Apple was not in violation of U.S. or California antitrust laws, and it is not required to allow Epic or other developers to open competing game stores on iOS.

    Unfair Competition Claim

    While the court declined to find antitrust violations, it did hold that Apple’s anti-steering provisions violated California's Unfair Competition Law. As discussed above, Apple’s anti-steering provisions restrict developers’ ability to tell customers about payment methods outside of Apple’s in-app payment system. The court concluded that the provisions were unfair because they prevented users from making an informed choice. Thus, the court issued a nationwide (but not global) injunction enjoining Apple from: (i) prohibiting apps and their metadata from containing “buttons, external links, or other calls to actions that direct customers to purchasing mechanisms, in addition to [in-app payment]”; and (ii) prohibiting developers from “[c]ommunicating with customers through points of contact obtained voluntarily from customers through account registration within the app.”<

    h2pwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 13
    BosaBosa Posts: 80member
    Chinese communist owned game maker Epic , please keep them out of the 
    Apple App Store  forever 
    F_Kent_Dqwerty52williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 13
    BosaBosa Posts: 80member
    Beats said:
    Crazy how we’re even giving people the idea tthat hey can rule a company they don’t own. These lawsuits should have been laughed at and dismissed day one.

    But since we give them attention…

    I’m gonna sue Wal-Mart if they don’t build a store next to my house and sell my homemade food in their deli for free. If they want a profit from me that’s anti-competitive, they should be working for me for free.
    What you described is communism and funny Epic is  owned by China 
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 13
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 2,658member
    Bosa said:
    Beats said:
    Crazy how we’re even giving people the idea tthat hey can rule a company they don’t own. These lawsuits should have been laughed at and dismissed day one.

    But since we give them attention…

    I’m gonna sue Wal-Mart if they don’t build a store next to my house and sell my homemade food in their deli for free. If they want a profit from me that’s anti-competitive, they should be working for me for free.
    What you described is communism and funny Epic is  owned by China 
    Tencent owns 40% of Epic. Tim Sweeney owns a little over 50% of Epic. Therefore China does not "own Epic." Maybe you knew this, but there are a lot of innocent readers out there who believe what they read on this forum, so I had to correct you, for their sake.

    Also CNBC reports that Epic has not provided any user data to Tencent. But I wouldn't trust Tencent, China, CNBC or Epic.
    muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
Sign In or Register to comment.