Apple now calls itself a gaming company fighting with Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo

Posted:
in General Discussion
In an earnings filing, Apple has made clear that it believes that it is locked in combat with Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo, highlighting how important it views gaming on its platforms.

Credit: Apple
Credit: Apple


In a regulatory filing on Friday, the company said its products compete as gaming platform against traditional game companies like Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo. Previously, Apple said it only competed with Google's Android and Microsoft's Windows.

Gaming is an important revenue stream for Apple -- the company earns more from gaming on its platforms than Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, and Activision combined. Additionally, Apple also competes directly with its Apple Arcade gaming platform.

Apple's competitors was also an important topic during the Epic Games v. Apple trial. At the time, the Cupertino tech giant did not list gaming consoles as competitors in regulatory filings.

According to court documents revealed during the trial, about 70% of all App Store revenue comes from gaming apps. That revenue is generated by less than 10% of App Store users. Other documents indicated that Apple controlled at least a third of the gaming market's total transactions.

There are other signs that Apple is seeing the increased importance of gaming on its bottom line. For example, some of its recent products, like the iPhone 13 Pro and new MacBook Pros, support 120Hz refresh rates -- a popular feature among gamers.

Read on AppleInsider
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 63
    It’d be a shame to waste all that new industry-leading processor speed and coolness on productivity apps. 😊
    InspiredCodegregoriusmOferbaconstangbloggerblogBeatsbyronluraharaAlex_Viqatedo
  • Reply 2 of 63
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 1,989member
    According to court documents revealed during the trial, about 70% of all App Store revenue comes from gaming apps.



    I’d believe it. I know that I bought my productivity apps once, Procreate, Designer, Pages. I buy one or two games a month. the productivity apps may have cost more but over time I’ve paid way more for games. 
    williamlondonInspiredCodegregoriusmOferwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 63
    ... which is why there's basically 1 in 20 games on the Mac?

    Its not like they can blame weak GPUs any more.
    williamlondonInspiredCodeOferBeatsbyronlwatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 63
    Gaming on iPhone is much more convenient than consoles or desktop. I can see Apple reigns in that sector. The rest of the platforms are just trailing behind. 
    narwhalOferlkruppbyronlwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 63
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,015member
    Weird, I buy quite a few games, but rarely think of Apple's App Stores.
  • Reply 6 of 63
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,364member
    DAalseth said:
    According to court documents revealed during the trial, about 70% of all App Store revenue comes from gaming apps.



    I’d believe it. I know that I bought my productivity apps once, Procreate, Designer, Pages. I buy one or two games a month. the productivity apps may have cost more but over time I’ve paid way more for games. 
    It's somewhat irritating to go to the AppStore and find recommended apps since every single one now is a game and I'm definitely so gamer. Not even one minute a month spent playing them, yet what Apple "suggests" for me is nothing but. Well OK, one out of a total 17 suggestions wasn't a game.

    IMO Apple is doing what's best for them, not me, and that's not the Apple I expected. 
    Oferbaconstangmike54uraharamuthuk_vanalingamd_2
  • Reply 7 of 63
    gatorguy said: It's somewhat irritating to go to the AppStore and find recommended apps since every single one now is a game and I'm definitely so gamer. Not even one minute a month spent playing them, yet what Apple "suggests" for me is nothing but. Well OK, one out of a total 17 suggestions wasn't a game.
    ?? The iOS/iPadOS App Store is split into Today/Games/Apps/Arcade/Search. The Mac App Store is split into Discover/Arcade/Create/Work/Play/Develop/Search. In other words, it's really easy to immediately go to a section that is guaranteed to not involve gaming. 
    williamlondonOferget seriouslolliverAlex_Vwatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 63
    chadbagchadbag Posts: 1,650member
    gatorguy said: It's somewhat irritating to go to the AppStore and find recommended apps since every single one now is a game and I'm definitely so gamer. Not even one minute a month spent playing them, yet what Apple "suggests" for me is nothing but. Well OK, one out of a total 17 suggestions wasn't a game.
    ?? The iOS/iPadOS App Store is split into Today/Games/Apps/Arcade/Search. The Mac App Store is split into Discover/Arcade/Create/Work/Play/Develop/Search. In other words, it's really easy to immediately go to a section that is guaranteed to not involve gaming. 
    His point is not that you can't find other apps.  It's that that is mostly what the app store recommends, even when he has little or no history of buying games.  

    I agree with him.  Apple recommendations have nothing to do with me.  Their Apple Music bombards me with "curated" lists and "recommendations" that I find to be crap.  No interest.  But it never recommends anything that I would find interesting despite having my history.  
    williamlondoncalisurfboybaconstangradarthekatJapheymwhitegatorguybyronlmobirdmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 9 of 63
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,364member
    gatorguy said: It's somewhat irritating to go to the AppStore and find recommended apps since every single one now is a game and I'm definitely so gamer. Not even one minute a month spent playing them, yet what Apple "suggests" for me is nothing but. Well OK, one out of a total 17 suggestions wasn't a game.
    ?? The iOS/iPadOS App Store is split into Today/Games/Apps/Arcade/Search. The Mac App Store is split into Discover/Arcade/Create/Work/Play/Develop/Search. In other words, it's really easy to immediately go to a section that is guaranteed to not involve gaming. 
    Why are games the default? I have no interest in them and zero history of even searching for one.

    FWIW even though I sometimes get odd recommendations on Google Play too, it's not focused on games, and in fact they're rarely "suggested" for me.  EDIT: Checking just now there's not one game "recommended for me" or even "suggested for me".  They're all either personal interest-based (ie, photography, nature, and health) or productivity. I wish you could see the difference for yourself since it would be far easier for you to understand the point. 
    radarthekatbaconstangAlex_Vmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 10 of 63
    rmoormoo Posts: 30member
    ... which is why there's basically 1 in 20 games on the Mac?

    Its not like they can blame weak GPUs any more.
    Come on you know that it is lack of market share. https://www.polygon.com/2020/1/27/21083870/rocket-league-mac-linux-service-refund-reason-why

    And the reason for the lack of market share is the cost of Apple machines. Back in the Intel days, the entry point was $1000 for a dual core 1.1 GHz CPU that would have barely been able to play the 99 cent mobile games or the ancient stuff like Portal on Steam. For that you can get an Intel Core i7 device with a midrange Nvidia GPU. 

    The switch to Apple Silicon has made things worse. Despite what Apple's PR is willing to allow you to believe, market share has not increased. But now the RAM on Macs can't be upgraded and there is no third party GPU support, even over Thunderbolt. Your "you can't blame weak GPUs" is false. While the M1 in the Mac Mini, MBA and entry level MBP has CPU performance comparable to many gaming machines, the GPU performance is nowhere close (on games anyway, not the Final Cut Pro stuff that Apple designed and optimized it for). To get RTX 3060 performance you need to spend $3300. That would get you an RTX 3080 system easy. Or two RTX 3060 systems with enough left over to buy an iPhone SE 2020. 

    That is also why the "Apple needs to take gaming more seriously and invest in it" talk can't be taken seriously. The pricing just isn't competitive and the decades' old "total cost of ownership" sales like that Apple pushes doesn't work in gaming because hardware gets upgraded or replaced every 3 years - or less - in order to be able to play the latest games. No one who is even halfway serious about gaming is going to buy a Mac. What you want is for devs to ignore this, create or port games for macOS anyway and lose money. 

    I don't even believe there is a real avenue for console gaming for Apple. The PS5 and the XBox One X cost $500. The M1 Mac Mini? $700. So the idea of Apple producing a machine with equivalent graphics power for $200 less than their current 8 core GPU device just isn't happening even if Apple chooses to emulate Microsoft and Sony and sell it at a loss. Maybe more things could be done with iPhone and iPad gaming, but they have tried Apple Arcade and it didn't have an impact, mainly because they didn't move nearly as many Apple TV units as they hoped (again, cost). 
    edited October 2021 gregoriusmmike54ravnorodomwilliamlondonmuthuk_vanalingambeowulfschmidtsuddenly newton
  • Reply 11 of 63
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,904member
    M1 could be a viable target for games developers. They’re locked into x86/DirectX right now but they know ARM on Windows is inevitable and if they’re entertaining ARM the Vulkan/Android & Metal/AppleOS is also worthwhile.  I wonder how many gamers are on mid-spec vs high-spec GPUs.
    The lack of availability of high-end GPUs may force game devs to diversify.
    edited October 2021 williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 63
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,395member
    Time to build a metal optimised game engine. Apple will have to do it.
    and then support gaming houses to use it. Plus Apple itself could buy or build an exclusive halo game to drive interest. Preferably with lotsa blood and gore.
    edited October 2021 Beatsunsui_grepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 63
    Hmm, imagine an Apple M1Max based gaming console. Bam!!
    Beatslolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 63
    saareksaarek Posts: 1,371member
    rmoo said:
    ... which is why there's basically 1 in 20 games on the Mac?

    Its not like they can blame weak GPUs any more.
    Come on you know that it is lack of market share. https://www.polygon.com/2020/1/27/21083870/rocket-league-mac-linux-service-refund-reason-why

    And the reason for the lack of market share is the cost of Apple machines. Back in the Intel days, the entry point was $1000 for a dual core 1.1 GHz CPU that would have barely been able to play the 99 cent mobile games or the ancient stuff like Portal on Steam. For that you can get an Intel Core i7 device with a midrange Nvidia GPU. 

    The switch to Apple Silicon has made things worse. Despite what Apple's PR is willing to allow you to believe, market share has not increased. But now the RAM on Macs can't be upgraded and there is no third party GPU support, even over Thunderbolt. Your "you can't blame weak GPUs" is false. While the M1 in the Mac Mini, MBA and entry level MBP has CPU performance comparable to many gaming machines, the GPU performance is nowhere close (on games anyway, not the Final Cut Pro stuff that Apple designed and optimized it for). To get RTX 3060 performance you need to spend $3300. That would get you an RTX 3080 system easy. Or two RTX 3060 systems with enough left over to buy an iPhone SE 2020. 

    That is also why the "Apple needs to take gaming more seriously and invest in it" talk can't be taken seriously. The pricing just isn't competitive and the decades' old "total cost of ownership" sales like that Apple pushes doesn't work in gaming because hardware gets upgraded or replaced every 3 years - or less - in order to be able to play the latest games. No one who is even halfway serious about gaming is going to buy a Mac. What you want is for devs to ignore this, create or port games for macOS anyway and lose money. 

    I don't even believe there is a real avenue for console gaming for Apple. The PS5 and the XBox One X cost $500. The M1 Mac Mini? $700. So the idea of Apple producing a machine with equivalent graphics power for $200 less than their current 8 core GPU device just isn't happening even if Apple chooses to emulate Microsoft and Sony and sell it at a loss. Maybe more things could be done with iPhone and iPad gaming, but they have tried Apple Arcade and it didn't have an impact, mainly because they didn't move nearly as many Apple TV units as they hoped (again, cost). 
    The majority of PC Gamers don’t play with the most expensive hardware. A small, but vocal, percentage spend stupid money gaming hardware.

    Look at the specs for the average AAA game and the M1 machines will fall within them. Sure, you’ll not be playing with graphic settings set to Ultra, but on any latest AAA game you’d have to spend thousands to do that PC or not.

    I agree that Apple chasing ever higher margins over market share is strange. If they went back to a 30% margin and took 10-15% off the RRP of their Macs they’d move a lot more of them now that they have such a strong key selling point.

    Sadly Tim Cook is obsessed with beyond greedy margins.
    edited October 2021 BeatsOfermuthuk_vanalingamd_2
  • Reply 15 of 63
    Apple Arcade is boring. 
    ravnorodomnadrielwilliamlondonentropys
  • Reply 16 of 63
    mcdave said:
    M1 could be a viable target for games developers. They’re locked into x86/DirectX right now but they know ARM on Windows is inevitable and if they’re entertaining ARM the Vulkan/Android & Metal/AppleOS is also worthwhile.  I wonder how many gamers are on mid-spec vs high-spec GPUs.
    The lack of availability of high-end GPUs may force game devs to diversify.
    No. They depend on the sponsorship of consumer grade graphic card makers. Games are written for cards, not for users or platforms,
    entropyswatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 63
    saareksaarek Posts: 1,371member
    Apple Arcade is boring. 
    I thought the same thing, but my kids love it and I have found a couple of really fun games.

    Sure, it’s no Mass Effect, but Crossy Road Castles is very additive for a start!
    Fidonet127ravnorodompulseimageslolliverAlex_Vwatto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 63
    The majority of PC Gamers don’t play with the most expensive hardware. A small, but vocal, percentage spend stupid money gaming hardware.

    Look at the specs for the average AAA game and the M1 machines will fall within them. Sure, you’ll not be playing with graphic settings set to Ultra, but on any latest AAA game you’d have to spend thousands to do that PC or not.

    I agree that Apple chasing ever higher margins over market share is strange. If they went back to a 30% margin and took 10-15% off the RRP of their Macs they’d move a lot more of them now that they have such a strong key selling point.

    Sadly Tim Cook is obsessed with beyond greedy margins.
    Saarek, that was his point about the RTX 3060, the RTX 3060 is considered a mid-range graphic card. You have to spend $3300 on a mac to get a GPU that has at best a mid-range GPU performance (RTX 3060). Whereas, on a Windows you could easily get the top of line graphics system for the for same amount and still be able to get an iphone se 2020 phone with the left-over money.
    Oferwilliamlondon
  • Reply 19 of 63
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,908member
    Until they have a first party studio, I wouldn’t consider them in the same league.

    rmoo said:
    ... which is why there's basically 1 in 20 games on the Mac?

    Its not like they can blame weak GPUs any more.
    Come on you know that it is lack of market share. https://www.polygon.com/2020/1/27/21083870/rocket-league-mac-linux-service-refund-reason-why

    And the reason for the lack of market share is the cost of Apple machines. Back in the Intel days, the entry point was $1000 for a dual core 1.1 GHz CPU that would have barely been able to play the 99 cent mobile games or the ancient stuff like Portal on Steam. For that you can get an Intel Core i7 device with a midrange Nvidia GPU. 

    The switch to Apple Silicon has made things worse. Despite what Apple's PR is willing to allow you to believe, market share has not increased. But now the RAM on Macs can't be upgraded and there is no third party GPU support, even over Thunderbolt. Your "you can't blame weak GPUs" is false. While the M1 in the Mac Mini, MBA and entry level MBP has CPU performance comparable to many gaming machines, the GPU performance is nowhere close (on games anyway, not the Final Cut Pro stuff that Apple designed and optimized it for). To get RTX 3060 performance you need to spend $3300. That would get you an RTX 3080 system easy. Or two RTX 3060 systems with enough left over to buy an iPhone SE 2020. 

    That is also why the "Apple needs to take gaming more seriously and invest in it" talk can't be taken seriously. The pricing just isn't competitive and the decades' old "total cost of ownership" sales like that Apple pushes doesn't work in gaming because hardware gets upgraded or replaced every 3 years - or less - in order to be able to play the latest games. No one who is even halfway serious about gaming is going to buy a Mac. What you want is for devs to ignore this, create or port games for macOS anyway and lose money. 

    I don't even believe there is a real avenue for console gaming for Apple. The PS5 and the XBox One X cost $500. The M1 Mac Mini? $700. So the idea of Apple producing a machine with equivalent graphics power for $200 less than their current 8 core GPU device just isn't happening even if Apple chooses to emulate Microsoft and Sony and sell it at a loss. Maybe more things could be done with iPhone and iPad gaming, but they have tried Apple Arcade and it didn't have an impact, mainly because they didn't move nearly as many Apple TV units as they hoped (again, cost). 

    Marketshare and Mac sales have increased. Financial reports aren’t “PR”. They aren’t even advertised.

    The reason why Apple Arcade is crap is because Apple puts a graphics cap on the service. It’s a mobile app alternative not something meant to compete with Xbox One Series X or PS5.
    Oferwilliamlondon
  • Reply 20 of 63
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,908member
    Hmm, imagine an Apple M1Max based gaming console. Bam!!

    I asked for this before M1 had a name. I gave up on Apple TV. It’s a fu**ing joke. I’ve been waiting for a decent Apple console since 2014. No more.
    Oferwilliamlondon
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