I’m not replacing it until it either dies or they kill off the notch completely and have it all under the display.
Is that really so important for your decision to upgrade?
To me, the camera, battery life and better hardware in combination with new/better uses (software). I am not controlled or obstructed by a tiny notch. What is your daily use of your phone that makes this important to you?
It’s odd that someone would ignore all the additional features and performance, as well as the fact that they get a lot more display from the forehead and chin going away, but instead focus on a small area of the extra display not going all the way across the top.
We all have our preferences, features that matter more to us than they do to others.
The iPhone line is mature now, boring if you will when it comes to yearly updates. My iPhone XS Max performs as well now as it did when I bought it and I am in no rush to replace it. The fact that the iPhone 13 is 50% (or whatever it is) faster than my iPhone is irrelevant to me whilst my iPhone launches the apps I use, like Safari, immediately anyway.
I’ll look to replace my current handset either when it dies or when the notch dies a death.
As I said the notch was a compromise I was willing to accept when it was released. At the time I decided I’d not replace until they removed it and I’m sticking with that.
To you it might not be important, and yes I’m used to it. But I still know it there and I still want it gone.
So the giant forehead and chin is fine but adding a lot more display, making a much better phone (which includes Face ID tech) is worth hating what is effectively no chin and a very small forehead?
What's the other option? No Face ID tech in the iPhone until such unknown time when all the sensors can be behind the already much larger display than when they only had Touch ID? That doesn't seem like a good trade off to hinder technological progress and functionality for your minor aesthetic issue.
I think it’s you who doesn’t get this, not me. I own an iPhone XS Max, so obviously accepted the trade offs for the benefit.
At the same time I personally have no plan to replace the phone until either it dies and I’m forced too, or until the notch is gone.
Other companies have already worked out how to hide the sensors behind the display until they’re needed. But that option is not yet perfected.
I’m sure Apple will eventually perfect and then release it. All going well within the next two generations. They’ll certainly have me as a day one order when they do so.
You stated that it's not perfected—and we're not even talking about Face ID-level sensors—but you still don't get that you have a lot more display now than you did with Touch ID.
I'll never understand this mentality that wants a company to add a feature just because someone else has it without one iota of concern about its utility.
PS: Do you understand that Apple has been working on Touch ID behind the display for many, many years, right? This also has not been perfected and yet you can find devices that have this feature.
You're trying to make an argument out of nothing here. Saarek said he has a XS, which has no chin and a notch, then you try to bring in the irrelevant TouchID. Yes, pre-X phones weren't full screen, but that's not relevant. Saarek has not got a pre-X iPhone. He's comparing a XS with a 13. There is much less screen real estate improvement between the XS and 13 than the pre-X vs 13. It's his preference to wait until that notch disappears. How is that so hard to understand? Stop telling someone that their reasoning behind not upgrading is wrong, because some issue that doesn't bother you bothers them. It is entirely user preference as to whether someone wants to wait for some feature to arrive or not. I have an X, and the notch doesn't bother me much, but I'd rather it wasn't there.
You'll "never understand this mentality" meaning you can't understand the utility of TouchID over FaceID in a masked world? It's quite obvious to most, if you can't work it out that's on you, your use case isn't everyone's. I'd prefer that iPhones had TouchID and FaceID. If the 13 had TouchID I would have bought it in a heartbeat. Right now, the 13 is just not compelling enough vs the X for me. Faster, ok great, but what else is there? The camera is actually worse for my usage, the X's 2x zoom is much more useful than wide-angle. I have a DSLR anyway, so that will always trump the phone camera.
Many other companies have got under-screen fingerprint authentication working just fine, and have done since around 2015. Apple is miles behind on this. The have TouchID in the power button on the iPads, so why not use that on the phones? Especially considering the mask mandates everywhere. Apple needs to up its game.
I have no problem with the notch and my phone has one.
Some people will like it but others won't. It all boils down to personal preference.
The technological merit is also a two way street. Having only one biometric has proven to be a mistake in times of a global pandemic and converted FaceID into a pain in usage terms for many everyday situations. Apple couldn't foresee the pandemic but that doesn't change anything. Choice is good and it would have been nice to include an underscreen, rear, or power button biometric option. Along with mutli device distributed authentication technologies (using bone voice etc)
Fingerprint scanners were already secure enough for authenticating payments and that is the true litmus test for biometrics, not statistics. Also, from the very outset, there were people who couldn't use FaceID because they looked like someone else in the same family or group of friends. My wife hates FaceID because it has never been able to handle her glasses.
Apple took way too long to make the notch smaller and add new functionality like small object 3D scanning, privacy features, always on sensing, orientation awareness...
Some might say those features should have been there from the start but Apple did little to improve the usefulness of the sensors inside the notch.
So much for the technological superiority if it isn't up to what competitors are doing with it. Let's not even talk about the technologically superior Touch Bar on laptops.
From a design perspective, notches in general, look very dated IMO and hole punches or pills look far better. Curiously I don't see them looking so dated on laptops.
Obviously, all notches and visible in-screen hardware will eventually disappear on phones as they were only temporary solutions in the first place.
The problem is that you can't satisfy all preferences with one design and everyone's opinion is valid, no matter the group it falls in.
I’m not replacing it until it either dies or they kill off the notch completely and have it all under the display.
Is that really so important for your decision to upgrade?
To me, the camera, battery life and better hardware in combination with new/better uses (software). I am not controlled or obstructed by a tiny notch. What is your daily use of your phone that makes this important to you?
It’s odd that someone would ignore all the additional features and performance, as well as the fact that they get a lot more display from the forehead and chin going away, but instead focus on a small area of the extra display not going all the way across the top.
We all have our preferences, features that matter more to us than they do to others.
The iPhone line is mature now, boring if you will when it comes to yearly updates. My iPhone XS Max performs as well now as it did when I bought it and I am in no rush to replace it. The fact that the iPhone 13 is 50% (or whatever it is) faster than my iPhone is irrelevant to me whilst my iPhone launches the apps I use, like Safari, immediately anyway.
I’ll look to replace my current handset either when it dies or when the notch dies a death.
As I said the notch was a compromise I was willing to accept when it was released. At the time I decided I’d not replace until they removed it and I’m sticking with that.
To you it might not be important, and yes I’m used to it. But I still know it there and I still want it gone.
So the giant forehead and chin is fine but adding a lot more display, making a much better phone (which includes Face ID tech) is worth hating what is effectively no chin and a very small forehead?
What's the other option? No Face ID tech in the iPhone until such unknown time when all the sensors can be behind the already much larger display than when they only had Touch ID? That doesn't seem like a good trade off to hinder technological progress and functionality for your minor aesthetic issue.
I think it’s you who doesn’t get this, not me. I own an iPhone XS Max, so obviously accepted the trade offs for the benefit.
At the same time I personally have no plan to replace the phone until either it dies and I’m forced too, or until the notch is gone.
Other companies have already worked out how to hide the sensors behind the display until they’re needed. But that option is not yet perfected.
I’m sure Apple will eventually perfect and then release it. All going well within the next two generations. They’ll certainly have me as a day one order when they do so.
You stated that it's not perfected—and we're not even talking about Face ID-level sensors—but you still don't get that you have a lot more display now than you did with Touch ID.
I'll never understand this mentality that wants a company to add a feature just because someone else has it without one iota of concern about its utility.
PS: Do you understand that Apple has been working on Touch ID behind the display for many, many years, right? This also has not been perfected and yet you can find devices that have this feature.
You're trying to make an argument out of nothing here. Saarek said he has a XS, which has no chin and a notch, then you try to bring in the irrelevant TouchID. Yes, pre-X phones weren't full screen, but that's not relevant. Saarek has not got a pre-X iPhone. He's comparing a XS with a 13. There is much less screen real estate improvement between the XS and 13 than the pre-X vs 13. It's his preference to wait until that notch disappears. How is that so hard to understand? Stop telling someone that their reasoning behind not upgrading is wrong, because some issue that doesn't bother you bothers them. It is entirely user preference as to whether someone wants to wait for some feature to arrive or not. I have an X, and the notch doesn't bother me much, but I'd rather it wasn't there.
You'll "never understand this mentality" meaning you can't understand the utility of TouchID over FaceID in a masked world? It's quite obvious to most, if you can't work it out that's on you, your use case isn't everyone's. I'd prefer that iPhones had TouchID and FaceID. If the 13 had TouchID I would have bought it in a heartbeat. Right now, the 13 is just not compelling enough vs the X for me. Faster, ok great, but what else is there? The camera is actually worse for my usage, the X's 2x zoom is much more useful than wide-angle. I have a DSLR anyway, so that will always trump the phone camera.
Sure, but Face ID has been around for a long time. His complaint is that Apple isn't doing what isn't possible yet. His complaint is that "he's losing part of the display" which is where I brought in Touch ID since before Face ID (aka when iPhones had Touch ID) the display was considerably smaller in size for the given front surface area. His and your complains about Face ID are simply pathetic.
Sure, I've advocated for both Touch ID and Face ID, but that's not what the OP is doing by crying about the notch and saying how easy it would be for Apple to put it behind the display with the same level of security.
Many other companies have got under-screen fingerprint authentication working just fine, and have done since around 2015. Apple is miles behind on this. The have TouchID in the power button on the iPads, so why not use that on the phones? Especially considering the mask mandates everywhere. Apple needs to up its game.
Oh yeah? And who are these vendors with excellent security and behind the display fingerprint sensors that have viable security? You do understand that having both fast and secure biometrics are not easy, right?
Personally, I prefer my devices to have real features that work over ones that are half-baked, even if my dreams are all well in advance of what the state-of-technically can reasonably offer.
I’m not replacing it until it either dies or they kill off the notch completely and have it all under the display.
Is that really so important for your decision to upgrade?
To me, the camera, battery life and better hardware in combination with new/better uses (software). I am not controlled or obstructed by a tiny notch. What is your daily use of your phone that makes this important to you?
It’s odd that someone would ignore all the additional features and performance, as well as the fact that they get a lot more display from the forehead and chin going away, but instead focus on a small area of the extra display not going all the way across the top.
We all have our preferences, features that matter more to us than they do to others.
The iPhone line is mature now, boring if you will when it comes to yearly updates. My iPhone XS Max performs as well now as it did when I bought it and I am in no rush to replace it. The fact that the iPhone 13 is 50% (or whatever it is) faster than my iPhone is irrelevant to me whilst my iPhone launches the apps I use, like Safari, immediately anyway.
I’ll look to replace my current handset either when it dies or when the notch dies a death.
As I said the notch was a compromise I was willing to accept when it was released. At the time I decided I’d not replace until they removed it and I’m sticking with that.
To you it might not be important, and yes I’m used to it. But I still know it there and I still want it gone.
So the giant forehead and chin is fine but adding a lot more display, making a much better phone (which includes Face ID tech) is worth hating what is effectively no chin and a very small forehead?
What's the other option? No Face ID tech in the iPhone until such unknown time when all the sensors can be behind the already much larger display than when they only had Touch ID? That doesn't seem like a good trade off to hinder technological progress and functionality for your minor aesthetic issue.
I think it’s you who doesn’t get this, not me. I own an iPhone XS Max, so obviously accepted the trade offs for the benefit.
At the same time I personally have no plan to replace the phone until either it dies and I’m forced too, or until the notch is gone.
Other companies have already worked out how to hide the sensors behind the display until they’re needed. But that option is not yet perfected.
I’m sure Apple will eventually perfect and then release it. All going well within the next two generations. They’ll certainly have me as a day one order when they do so.
You stated that it's not perfected—and we're not even talking about Face ID-level sensors—but you still don't get that you have a lot more display now than you did with Touch ID.
I'll never understand this mentality that wants a company to add a feature just because someone else has it without one iota of concern about its utility.
PS: Do you understand that Apple has been working on Touch ID behind the display for many, many years, right? This also has not been perfected and yet you can find devices that have this feature.
You're trying to make an argument out of nothing here. Saarek said he has a XS, which has no chin and a notch, then you try to bring in the irrelevant TouchID. Yes, pre-X phones weren't full screen, but that's not relevant. Saarek has not got a pre-X iPhone. He's comparing a XS with a 13. There is much less screen real estate improvement between the XS and 13 than the pre-X vs 13. It's his preference to wait until that notch disappears. How is that so hard to understand? Stop telling someone that their reasoning behind not upgrading is wrong, because some issue that doesn't bother you bothers them. It is entirely user preference as to whether someone wants to wait for some feature to arrive or not. I have an X, and the notch doesn't bother me much, but I'd rather it wasn't there.
You'll "never understand this mentality" meaning you can't understand the utility of TouchID over FaceID in a masked world? It's quite obvious to most, if you can't work it out that's on you, your use case isn't everyone's. I'd prefer that iPhones had TouchID and FaceID. If the 13 had TouchID I would have bought it in a heartbeat. Right now, the 13 is just not compelling enough vs the X for me. Faster, ok great, but what else is there? The camera is actually worse for my usage, the X's 2x zoom is much more useful than wide-angle. I have a DSLR anyway, so that will always trump the phone camera.
Sure, but Face ID has been around for a long time. His complaint is that Apple isn't doing what isn't possible yet. His complaint is that "he's losing part of the display" which is where I brought in Touch ID since before Face ID (aka when iPhones had Touch ID) the display was considerably smaller in size for the given front surface area. His and your complains about Face ID are simply pathetic.
Sure, I've advocated for both Touch ID and Face ID, but that's not what the OP is doing by crying about the notch and saying how easy it would be for Apple to put it behind the display with the same level of security.
Many other companies have got under-screen fingerprint authentication working just fine, and have done since around 2015. Apple is miles behind on this. The have TouchID in the power button on the iPads, so why not use that on the phones? Especially considering the mask mandates everywhere. Apple needs to up its game.
Oh yeah? And who are these vendors with excellent security and behind the display fingerprint sensors that have viable security? You do understand that having both fast and secure biometrics are not easy, right?
Personally, I prefer my devices to have real features that work over ones that are half-baked, even if my dreams are all well in advance of what the state-of-technically can reasonably offer.
What I said was that I’d not be looking to replace my iPhone before either it dies or the notch disappears.
You’re the one going on about technology that’s not available today.
The iPhone X came out in 2017, it had sacrifices to get the larger body to display ratio, but most deemed that as an acceptable trade off for the benefits.
When I bought my iPhone XS Max I accepted said trade offs, however I also had in my mind that by the time I’d need to replace it the notch should be gone.
Really I’d hope to upgrade next year, but if the notch is just replaced with a punch hole I may well wait another generation.
End of the day it’s been 4 years since the iPhone X came out, 5-6 years is a long time for Apple to research and kill off the notch. Perhaps they don’t see it as a priority, people like you obviously don’t and that’s fair enough, but I want it gone.
This year, at least one cell phone maker managed cover up the hole punch with visible pixels. It would be great if Apple lead the market on display technology rather than following it by two or three years.
I imagine they are only using a single camera and a fingerprint reader rather than FaceID. FaceID is better than TouchID imo, apart from when it's not due to masks. TouchID makes a lot of sense right now, and in years gone by Apple's nimbleness would have allowed them to "skate to where the puck is going" and they would have added it in the upcoming model. Unfortunately under Cook, Apple's dexterity has melted away to leave a more traditional sluggish behemoth.
We're two years into the pandemic and Apple's not caught up to the many Android manufacturers who have an under-screen fingerprint reader. Apple even has a finished in-power-button reader, why isn't that on the iPhone 13? Come on Apple.
Because Apple has already a solution when you are wearing a mask - Apple Watch.
Comments
You'll "never understand this mentality" meaning you can't understand the utility of TouchID over FaceID in a masked world? It's quite obvious to most, if you can't work it out that's on you, your use case isn't everyone's. I'd prefer that iPhones had TouchID and FaceID. If the 13 had TouchID I would have bought it in a heartbeat. Right now, the 13 is just not compelling enough vs the X for me. Faster, ok great, but what else is there? The camera is actually worse for my usage, the X's 2x zoom is much more useful than wide-angle. I have a DSLR anyway, so that will always trump the phone camera.
Many other companies have got under-screen fingerprint authentication working just fine, and have done since around 2015. Apple is miles behind on this. The have TouchID in the power button on the iPads, so why not use that on the phones? Especially considering the mask mandates everywhere. Apple needs to up its game.
Some people will like it but others won't. It all boils down to personal preference.
The technological merit is also a two way street. Having only one biometric has proven to be a mistake in times of a global pandemic and converted FaceID into a pain in usage terms for many everyday situations. Apple couldn't foresee the pandemic but that doesn't change anything. Choice is good and it would have been nice to include an underscreen, rear, or power button biometric option. Along with mutli device distributed authentication technologies (using bone voice etc)
Fingerprint scanners were already secure enough for authenticating payments and that is the true litmus test for biometrics, not statistics. Also, from the very outset, there were people who couldn't use FaceID because they looked like someone else in the same family or group of friends. My wife hates FaceID because it has never been able to handle her glasses.
Apple took way too long to make the notch smaller and add new functionality like small object 3D scanning, privacy features, always on sensing, orientation awareness...
Some might say those features should have been there from the start but Apple did little to improve the usefulness of the sensors inside the notch.
So much for the technological superiority if it isn't up to what competitors are doing with it. Let's not even talk about the technologically superior Touch Bar on laptops.
From a design perspective, notches in general, look very dated IMO and hole punches or pills look far better. Curiously I don't see them looking so dated on laptops.
Obviously, all notches and visible in-screen hardware will eventually disappear on phones as they were only temporary solutions in the first place.
The problem is that you can't satisfy all preferences with one design and everyone's opinion is valid, no matter the group it falls in.
Sure, I've advocated for both Touch ID and Face ID, but that's not what the OP is doing by crying about the notch and saying how easy it would be for Apple to put it behind the display with the same level of security.
Oh yeah? And who are these vendors with excellent security and behind the display fingerprint sensors that have viable security? You do understand that having both fast and secure biometrics are not easy, right?
Personally, I prefer my devices to have real features that work over ones that are half-baked, even if my dreams are all well in advance of what the state-of-technically can reasonably offer.
You’re the one going on about technology that’s not available today.
The iPhone X came out in 2017, it had sacrifices to get the larger body to display ratio, but most deemed that as an acceptable trade off for the benefits.
When I bought my iPhone XS Max I accepted said trade offs, however I also had in my mind that by the time I’d need to replace it the notch should be gone.
Really I’d hope to upgrade next year, but if the notch is just replaced with a punch hole I may well wait another generation.
End of the day it’s been 4 years since the iPhone X came out, 5-6 years is a long time for Apple to research and kill off the notch. Perhaps they don’t see it as a priority, people like you obviously don’t and that’s fair enough, but I want it gone.