Chinese media downplaying Apple's reported $275B deal with the country

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 84
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,344member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world all have stronger economies than the autocracies.

    Oh, I forgot Japan, U.S. $5.4 trillion, South Korea, US$1.8 trillion, and Taiwan, US$760 Billion.
    edited December 2021
  • Reply 42 of 84
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
  • Reply 43 of 84
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
  • Reply 44 of 84
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
    You failed to understand he attributes it to democracies. 
  • Reply 45 of 84
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,344member
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
    You failed to understand he attributes it to democracies. 
    Yep.

    Why would that be?

    Because historically, state run economies do much worse, by far, than democracies and capitalism.
  • Reply 46 of 84
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
    You failed to understand he attributes it to democracies. 
    I literally couldn’t care less.
  • Reply 47 of 84
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
    You failed to understand he attributes it to democracies. 
    Yep.

    Why would that be?

    Because historically, state run economies do much worse, by far, than democracies and capitalism.
    Japan was not a democracy before 1945. 
  • Reply 48 of 84
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world all have stronger economies than the autocracies.

    Oh, I forgot Japan, U.S. $5.4 trillion, South Korea, US$1.8 trillion, and Taiwan, US$760 Billion.
    For a person living in a country with a rapidly failing democracy, you're pretty cocky.

    And, China says their system works better anyway -- or is it that we just set a pretty low bar of late?

    'China's State Council Information Office on Saturday released a white paper titled "China: Democracy That Works." ...

    American democracy, as a representative of Western democracy, has shown serious inefficiency after more than 200 years of over-consumption. It cannot provide motivation for resolving even the most prominent problems in the US. It has almost become a hollow framework, habitually holding rounds of elections. Elections themselves have become the sole feature of its democracy, and winning the election has become the overwhelming goal of political parties and politicians. With US society is being torn apart, it is increasingly politically uneconomical to work on solving problems. It is proven to be a "smarter" way to pretend to solve the problem and then blame political opponents for being unable to resolve issues, and to defraud the trust of voters.

    The American people will be valued by politicians as the object of persuasion, only when they are "voters." But after each election, they cannot continuously supervise the winning side. Generally, the US and West are relatively "small governments," and governments do not bear unlimited moral responsibility for people's livelihood. Even if the COVID-19 pandemic led to more than 700,000 deaths in the US, the federal government does not need to take the responsibility. Instead, the president can shirk responsibility onto ordinary people who do not get vaccinated or refuse to wear masks.

    In the US, there is a very strong intermediary force between the government and the people: capital. Capital can not only strongly influence government's decision-making, but is also the dominant force in guiding social relations. It is the real immutable force in the US' democratic power distribution."


    Maybe you should focus more on fixing the problems in your own country rather than trying to spread your brand of democracy to others.   Didn't you guys try that in Iraq and Afghanistan?   How'd that work for you?



  • Reply 49 of 84
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
    You failed to understand he attributes it to democracies. 
    Yep.

    Why would that be?

    Because historically, state run economies do much worse, by far, than democracies and capitalism.
    Japan was not a democracy before 1945. 

    Funny how he bases the value of democracy on how the rich the rich are.
  • Reply 50 of 84
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,344member
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
    You failed to understand he attributes it to democracies. 
    Yep.

    Why would that be?

    Because historically, state run economies do much worse, by far, than democracies and capitalism.
    Japan was not a democracy before 1945. 

    Funny how he bases the value of democracy on how the rich the rich are.
    In 1946, Japan was directed by General MacAuthor to institute democratic practices, so yeah, Japan got a huge head start over the PRC, which as we all know, is still entirely authoritarian. At the same time, Xi Jinping is "moderating" China's capitalism, with the result that the PRC is even more involved in the economy, likely for a weaker result than his predecessors.

    In the meantime, China's economy is slowing, and the birthrate is likely to fall to the point that the population will halve by 2060.
  • Reply 51 of 84
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
    You failed to understand he attributes it to democracies. 
    Yep.

    Why would that be?

    Because historically, state run economies do much worse, by far, than democracies and capitalism.
    Japan was not a democracy before 1945. 

    Funny how he bases the value of democracy on how the rich the rich are.
    In 1946, Japan was directed by General MacAuthor to institute democratic practices, so yeah, Japan got a huge head start over the PRC, which as we all know, is still entirely authoritarian. At the same time, Xi Jinping is "moderating" China's capitalism, with the result that the PRC is even more involved in the economy, likely for a weaker result than his predecessors.

    In the meantime, China's economy is slowing, and the birthrate is likely to fall to the point that the population will halve by 2060.
    Japan was well ahead of China. In 1895 Japan defeated China forcing China to cede Taiwan to it for 50 years until 1945.
  • Reply 52 of 84
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,344member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
    You failed to understand he attributes it to democracies. 
    Yep.

    Why would that be?

    Because historically, state run economies do much worse, by far, than democracies and capitalism.
    Japan was not a democracy before 1945. 

    Funny how he bases the value of democracy on how the rich the rich are.
    In 1946, Japan was directed by General MacAuthor to institute democratic practices, so yeah, Japan got a huge head start over the PRC, which as we all know, is still entirely authoritarian. At the same time, Xi Jinping is "moderating" China's capitalism, with the result that the PRC is even more involved in the economy, likely for a weaker result than his predecessors.

    In the meantime, China's economy is slowing, and the birthrate is likely to fall to the point that the population will halve by 2060.
    Japan was well ahead of China. In 1895 Japan defeated China forcing China to cede Taiwan to it for 50 years until 1945.
    ...and Japan ceded it to the Nationalists, not the CCP.
  • Reply 53 of 84
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,344member
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
    You failed to understand he attributes it to democracies. 
    Yep.

    Why would that be?

    Because historically, state run economies do much worse, by far, than democracies and capitalism.
    Japan was not a democracy before 1945. 

    Funny how he bases the value of democracy on how the rich the rich are.
    Interestingly enough, GDP is an established metric of economic performance. If the PRC were leading, and they aren't, and they aren't likely to, then you would be basking in glory for your adopted motherland. 

    Ironically, Xi Jinping is attempting to moderate all of the wealthy billionaires in the PRC, to "spread the wealth" but the result will be to constrain the economy further. 

    https://www.ft.com/content/a8bb0913-8cf3-4a46-a1eb-32c23d79d079

    Thus, a vision of China’s future is taking shape. A mutual decoupling is emphasising China’s turn inward and its elevation of state actors to form a bulwark against both domestic vulnerabilities and mistrusted foreign forces. A Fortress China is under construction.

    The momentum behind this regrettable metamorphosis is strong. But Beijing should remember the extraordinary success of the last four decades was built, to a large degree, on an “open door” policy with the outside world. The influx of investment, technology and knowledge from overseas helped mightily in its ascent. With a rebound from recent protectionist tendencies, it could continue to do so in future.


    China is in a hurry as it knows that its demographics could mean that the country may grow old before it gets rich. The next decade will make or break it.
    edited December 2021
  • Reply 54 of 84
    robabarobaba Posts: 228member
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    Waiting for "The Chinese Media", aka bot farms, to downplay the following as well, "clearly driven by the political correctness of Sinophobia";

    https://uyghurtribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/UT-judgment-version-for-approval-by-GN-07.25-2.pdf






    H.R.6210 - Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6210

    It is amazing US Congress can pass an act without listing any verifiable evidence. This is democracy!

     :smiley:  :smiley:  :smiley: 

    Not even pretending that distraction isn't the objective.  Wear your bias and subversion with pride comrade!
    This Act has the same spirit of Chinese Exclusion Act that US Congress passed in 1870. That Act is also passed without listing any verifiable evidence. US is representing the bad part of democracy, phony democracy that a law can be passed by a majority vote without evidence. 
    Wow-that’s quite a claim, since the Chinese Exclusion Act is perhaps the high water mark for anti Chinese (and Japanese, and Thai, and Vietnamese, etc since they were often lumped under the same rubric). Do you have any direct evidence from the bill itself that would demonstrate the same or similar levels of blatant racism?  I’ve looked but apparently I’m not seeing what you are seeing.
  • Reply 55 of 84
    robabarobaba Posts: 228member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Waiting for "The Chinese Media", aka bot farms, to downplay the following as well, "clearly driven by the political correctness of Sinophobia";

    https://uyghurtribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/UT-judgment-version-for-approval-by-GN-07.25-2.pdf






    H.R.6210 - Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6210

    It is amazing US Congress can pass an act without listing any verifiable evidence. This is democracy!

    https://uyghurtribunal.com/news/witness-after-witness-hundreds-reveal-the-atrocities-of-chinas-concentration-camps/

    Of course, it would be easier to verify if the PRC was an open society...
    So it is not verified yet. How could US Congress pass an Act that is not verified yet? 
    The UN has said they have credible reports:

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-rights-un/u-n-says-it-has-credible-reports-that-china-holds-million-uighurs-in-secret-camps-idUSKBN1KV1SU

    Confirming what an ex-guard who escaped said:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/04/china/xinjiang-detective-torture-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

    And number other reports:

    Genocide finding:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/09/asia/china-uyghurs-xinjiang-genocide-report-intl-hnk/index.html

    Organ harvesting:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646 

    https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-uighur-muslims-china-tribunal-tells-un-2019-9 

    Camps

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-rights-un/u-n-says-it-has-credible-reports-that-china-holds-million-uighurs-in-secret-camps-idUSKBN1KV1SU

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-50511063 

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/features/uighurs/ 

    ...there's so much smoke here it's not even a question of whether there's fire. China has an abysmal human rights record and if anything is only getting worse. The army of astroturfers tasked with muddying the waters will not make this go away.

    All Acts by the congress should link to the alleged facts for historical records and should bear responsibility for relying on fake facts to establish the Act. 
    How about this;

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-a-residential-school-system-in-china-is-stripping-tibetan-children-of/

    Almost 80 per cent of Tibetan children in China have been placed in a vast system of government-run boarding schools, where they are cut off from their families, languages and traditional culture, according to an analysis of official data by researchers at Tibet Action Institute.

    The U.S.-based NGO found more than 800,000 Tibetan children between the ages of 6 and 18 “are now housed in these state-run institutions.”

    “The colonial boarding school system in Tibet is a core element of the Chinese Communist Party’s systematic effort to co-opt, undermine, and ultimately eliminate Tibetan identity in an attempt to neutralize Tibetan resistance to Chinese rule,” the group said in a report published Tuesday.

    For years, Tibetans have been sounding the alarm over what they see as assimilationist policies from Beijing. Scholars agree that the implementation of such policies escalated in the wake of large-scale unrest in parts of Tibet in 2008 and the coming to power of Chinese President Xi Jinping in 2012. Spiking repression in Tibet has coincided with a crackdown in China’s neighbouring Xinjiang region in recent years, which has seen an estimated two million ethnic Uyghurs pass through a system of “re-education” or “de-radicalization” camps.

    The collective evidence is overwhelming that the PRC is engaged in widespread human rights violations, and yet here you and your Tankie pals are whinging about legislative process to distract. I'm guessing this distraction is the United Front Work Department's plan of action.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/leaked-papers-link-xinjiang-crackdown-with-china-leadership

    That sure seems like solid journalism.


    What the world thinks of the PRC;

    https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2021/06/30/large-majorities-say-china-does-not-respect-the-personal-freedoms-of-its-people/

    Large Majorities Say China Does Not Respect the Personal Freedoms of Its People

    Unfavorable views of China also hover near historic highs in most of the 17 advanced economies surveyed


    https://www.politico.com/newsletters/politico-china-watcher/2021/12/02/china-is-furious-about-bidens-democracy-summit-495283

    Hi China Watchers. ‘Tis the season for summits! Check your advent calendar: President JOE BIDEN’s two-day Summit for Democracy is just around the corner. This week’s newsletter dives into how China — uninvited — casts a shadow over the event. We’ll also unpack the dramas surrounding both the latest Taiwan codel and another high-profile U.S. corporate apology to Beijing.

    Let’s get to it. — Phelim

    Next week’s Summit for Democracy is Biden’s latest effort at coalition building against threats to what he calls the “international rules-based order.”

    And to China’s dismay, Taiwan has been invited to join representatives of 111 democratic countries (several with dubious democratic credentials) convening at the Dec. 9-10 summit in a demonstration of international resolve. Though unstated, the Biden administration's aim is to counter diplomatic, economic and military dangers posed by a rising authoritarian tide spearheaded by the Chinese and Russian governments.

    China is neither invited to the event nor listed on its agenda, but its focus on “individual and collective commitments, reforms, and initiatives to defend democracy and human rights at home and abroad” will likely produce new initiatives to support democratic states, including Taiwan and Lithuania, facing down Chinese military and economic coercion.

    “For Taiwan, this is a big deal … an incredible opportunity to interact with other nations on an equal footing and feel respected in an international arena, while brandishing its democratic credentials,” ANTHONY J. SAICH, director of the Ash Center for Democratic Governance and Innovation at Harvard’s Kennedy School, told China Watcher. “The benefit for [Lithuania] is simply to be seen in a meeting of like-minded nations and to be able to irritate China further by showing that they are still welcome in a big club, of which China is not a part.”


    and finally,

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/csis-trudeau-china-media-1.6270750

    As Canada's spy agency warns that China's efforts to distort the news and influence media outlets in Canada "have become normalized," critics are renewing calls for Ottawa to take a far tougher approach to foreign media interference.

    The warning is contained in briefing documents drafted for Canadian Security Intelligence Service Director David Vigneault in preparation for a meeting he had with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau earlier this year.

    That meeting focused on the rise of foreign interference in Canada — something CSIS says has become "more sophisticated, frequent, and insidious."

    One way foreign states — including the People's Republic of China (PRC) — try to exert pressure on other countries is through media outlets, say the documents, obtained through an access to information request.

    "In particular, PRC media influence activities in Canada have become normalized," it reads.

    "Chinese-language media outlets operating in Canada and members of the Chinese-Canadian community are primary targets of PRC-directed foreign influenced activities."


    LOL Do you know US is called a melting pot? 
    ...and your point is what exactly?
    I waited for you to figure out for yourself. You failed! My point is millions of millions people emigrated to US over last several hundred years. Except the Anglo-Saxons, they gave up their language, culture. No school teaches language as needed. Instead foreign student coming to US has to pass the TOEFL test. Do you know TOEFL? LOL But nobody called this as genocide. Instead people praised US as a melting pot. That means the languages and cultures are melted away. So what the fuck US politicians call what CCP did in Xinjiang and Tibet as genocide? 
    Wow, I will be sure to point that out to my Spanish speaking friends who’s grandparents emigrated from Mexico.  You DO know that “The melting pot” is just a metaphor created by sociologists, and is considered by modern scholars to be highly problematic (ie not representative of actual human experience)?
  • Reply 56 of 84
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211211-as-eu-taiwan-ties-deepen-cybersecurity-is-front-and-centre?ref=tw

    Relations between the European Union and Taiwan have taken a surprising turn over the past year, with European officials embracing diplomatic cooperation with the self-governed island even as Beijing ramps up its coercive attempts to isolate Taipei. As the EU finds common ground with Taiwan in the field of cybersecurity and resilience, experts say China’s tactics have inadvertently pushed the bloc closer to Taipei.

    President Xi Jinping’s increasingly aggressive policy at home and abroad has provoked greater wariness and even outrage in the EU, which has become increasingly aware of the threats from China, particularly in the form of disinformation and influence campaigns.

    But, but, everybody loves the "peaceful" PRC...

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/it-will-really-poke-the-panda-new-zealand-s-defence-document-breaks-new-ground-on-china-20211211-p59grc.html

    In the last few weeks, Australian, Fijian, New Zealand and Papua New Guinean peacekeepers were deployed to the Solomon Islands to stabilise the situation for a pro-China leader, alleged to have used a Chinese government slush fund to bribe militants to withdraw support from the violent protests in Honiara. CCP-mouthpiece Global Times, approvingly praised the arrival of the foreign forces in the Solomons to restore order.

    The situation is invidious, but New Zealand and Australia’s longstanding timidity on publicly confronting China’s malign activities in the Pacific meant that it was inevitable they would find themselves using their militaries to protect Chinese interests in the Pacific.


    On December 6, despite a mountain of damning evidence of his unfitness for office going back many years, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare easily survived a non-confidence vote in the Solomons Parliament. All those who voted in support of Sogavare had allegedly been promised money from the Chinese-backed fund.

    Just two days after this vote, the New Zealand government published its 2021 Defence Assessment, a comprehensive look at the challenges facing the country from a defence and security perspective. In Australia, there is a perception that New Zealand has been too timid in its approach to China. This new assessment should put an end to that; it will really poke the panda.

    It lays out New Zealand’s deep concerns about the risk of China stationing its military in the South Pacific. Local conflicts, such as the Honiara riots, could provide the catalyst for such a move.

    The 2021 Defence Assessment asserts that if a state that did not share New Zealand’s values and security interests – read China – set up a military base or dual-use facility in the Pacific, it would be among the most serious security threats facing New Zealand.

    It is a situation that parallels the acute danger posed for New Zealand and Australia by Axis powers like Japan – or Vichy France – controlling Pacific island territories in World War II. New Zealand’s 2021 Defence Assessment closely parallels and references the findings of Australia’s 2020 Strategic Update.



    everybody lives in fear of mighty New Zealand.  They are pretty good at making motion pictures though.
    Strategic location in the South Pacific and near Antarctica, and is a setback for the PRC's strategic interests.

    If you had any concept of the Pacific War, you would understand why China is attempting inroads in the South Pacific; to constrain Australia's and New Zealand's supply lines.

    Some believe that the PRC will attempt to commercialize its site(s) in Antartica as well, something that is banned by treaty that the PRC is a signatory of, but when has that ever stopped them?

    https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-deep-seabed-is-chinas-next-target

    New Zealand and Australia mean little to China -- they're just U.S. minions.
    But let's talk about Nicaragua

    And instead of hypotheticals about Antarctica, let's talk about who is breaking treaties to militarize space.  Does China have a "Space Force"?


    You really don't have a clue of what China is doing militarily, but of course, you will continue to defend them. 

    Sick.

    That's your trouble:  I DO know what's going on -- because I'm not blinded by hate and ideology.
    Unlike the U.S., China does not intend to expand militarily.  (Although they will defend what is theirs).
    Well, China is indeed intent on expanding what is theirs...even if it actually isn't.


    Let's talk about economies, as an adjunct to your previous post;

    Nicaragua's;

    $13.118 billion

    ...and New Zealand's;

    US $193.545 billion

    ...and Australia's;

    US $1.5 Trillion

    ...and the U.S.;

    US $22.675 Trillion

    ...and the PRC;

    US $15.6 Trillion

    So Australia, with a population of 25.67 Million, has an economy 1/10 the size of the PRC.

    New Zealand has a population of just over 5 million, and Nicaragua 6.6 million, but New Zealand has 15 times the economy.

    So let's throw in the PRC's primary ally; Russia with a population of 145 million

    US $1.71 Trillion, a bit bigger than the economy of Australia.

    How about we throw in Canada, UK and the EU.

    Canada US $1.9 Trillion, 

    UK US $ 2.83 Trillion

    EU US $15 Trillion, about the same size as the PRC.

    Funny how the democracies of the world are all stronger than the autocracies.
    Do you know who invented the word 'developed nation'?
    I sure bet it’s really relevant to the conversation!
    You failed to understand he attributes it to democracies. 
    Yep.

    Why would that be?

    Because historically, state run economies do much worse, by far, than democracies and capitalism.
    Japan was not a democracy before 1945. 

    Funny how he bases the value of democracy on how the rich the rich are.
    In 1946, Japan was directed by General MacAuthor to institute democratic practices, so yeah, Japan got a huge head start over the PRC, which as we all know, is still entirely authoritarian. At the same time, Xi Jinping is "moderating" China's capitalism, with the result that the PRC is even more involved in the economy, likely for a weaker result than his predecessors.

    In the meantime, China's economy is slowing, and the birthrate is likely to fall to the point that the population will halve by 2060.
    Japan was well ahead of China. In 1895 Japan defeated China forcing China to cede Taiwan to it for 50 years until 1945.
    ...and Japan ceded it to the Nationalists, not the CCP.
    In 1945 China was ruled by KMT. CCP did not get control of China until late 1949.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 57 of 84
    robaba said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    Waiting for "The Chinese Media", aka bot farms, to downplay the following as well, "clearly driven by the political correctness of Sinophobia";

    https://uyghurtribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/UT-judgment-version-for-approval-by-GN-07.25-2.pdf






    H.R.6210 - Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6210

    It is amazing US Congress can pass an act without listing any verifiable evidence. This is democracy!

     :smiley:  :smiley:  :smiley: 

    Not even pretending that distraction isn't the objective.  Wear your bias and subversion with pride comrade!
    This Act has the same spirit of Chinese Exclusion Act that US Congress passed in 1870. That Act is also passed without listing any verifiable evidence. US is representing the bad part of democracy, phony democracy that a law can be passed by a majority vote without evidence. 
    Wow-that’s quite a claim, since the Chinese Exclusion Act is perhaps the high water mark for anti Chinese (and Japanese, and Thai, and Vietnamese, etc since they were often lumped under the same rubric). Do you have any direct evidence from the bill itself that would demonstrate the same or similar levels of blatant racism?  I’ve looked but apparently I’m not seeing what you are seeing.
    I saw PBS documentary of Chinese Exclusion Act. The Workers Party accused Chinese immigrants of stealing their jobs. Congress passed the Act by saying allowing Chinese immigrants would let Eastern culture to destroy Western culture. How do you prove this cultural argument? But this is the reason being used in Congress. 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 58 of 84
    robabarobaba Posts: 228member
    robaba said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    Waiting for "The Chinese Media", aka bot farms, to downplay the following as well, "clearly driven by the political correctness of Sinophobia";

    https://uyghurtribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/UT-judgment-version-for-approval-by-GN-07.25-2.pdf






    H.R.6210 - Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6210

    It is amazing US Congress can pass an act without listing any verifiable evidence. This is democracy!

     :smiley:  :smiley:  :smiley: 

    Not even pretending that distraction isn't the objective.  Wear your bias and subversion with pride comrade!
    This Act has the same spirit of Chinese Exclusion Act that US Congress passed in 1870. That Act is also passed without listing any verifiable evidence. US is representing the bad part of democracy, phony democracy that a law can be passed by a majority vote without evidence. 
    Wow-that’s quite a claim, since the Chinese Exclusion Act is perhaps the high water mark for anti Chinese (and Japanese, and Thai, and Vietnamese, etc since they were often lumped under the same rubric). Do you have any direct evidence from the bill itself that would demonstrate the same or similar levels of blatant racism?  I’ve looked but apparently I’m not seeing what you are seeing.
    I saw PBS documentary of Chinese Exclusion Act. The Workers Party accused Chinese immigrants of stealing their jobs. Congress passed the Act by saying allowing Chinese immigrants would let Eastern culture to destroy Western culture. How do you prove this cultural argument? But this is the reason being used in Congress. 
    Ok, ok, you saw a documentary on the CEA but have you actually red it yourself?  How about read any of the period propaganda pieces by local wealthy (Caucasian) men who had a vested interest in ruling up racial animosity in order to force the divestiture of property owned by SEAsian immigrants in California, Washington and portions of Oregon?  

    The rest of your statement makes no sense.  I just pointed out in the post you replied to how racist the CEA was (studied it for years in fact), can you point to anything in in H.R. 6210–Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act that is even remotely racist, let alone as racist as the cultural/racial assumptions ascribed to the “yellow peril” in the CEA?  ‘Cause just saying it doesn’t make it true.


    tmay
  • Reply 59 of 84
    robaba said:
    robaba said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    Waiting for "The Chinese Media", aka bot farms, to downplay the following as well, "clearly driven by the political correctness of Sinophobia";

    https://uyghurtribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/UT-judgment-version-for-approval-by-GN-07.25-2.pdf






    H.R.6210 - Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6210

    It is amazing US Congress can pass an act without listing any verifiable evidence. This is democracy!

     :smiley:  :smiley:  :smiley: 

    Not even pretending that distraction isn't the objective.  Wear your bias and subversion with pride comrade!
    This Act has the same spirit of Chinese Exclusion Act that US Congress passed in 1870. That Act is also passed without listing any verifiable evidence. US is representing the bad part of democracy, phony democracy that a law can be passed by a majority vote without evidence. 
    Wow-that’s quite a claim, since the Chinese Exclusion Act is perhaps the high water mark for anti Chinese (and Japanese, and Thai, and Vietnamese, etc since they were often lumped under the same rubric). Do you have any direct evidence from the bill itself that would demonstrate the same or similar levels of blatant racism?  I’ve looked but apparently I’m not seeing what you are seeing.
    I saw PBS documentary of Chinese Exclusion Act. The Workers Party accused Chinese immigrants of stealing their jobs. Congress passed the Act by saying allowing Chinese immigrants would let Eastern culture to destroy Western culture. How do you prove this cultural argument? But this is the reason being used in Congress. 
    Ok, ok, you saw a documentary on the CEA but have you actually red it yourself?  How about read any of the period propaganda pieces by local wealthy (Caucasian) men who had a vested interest in ruling up racial animosity in order to force the divestiture of property owned by SEAsian immigrants in California, Washington and portions of Oregon?  

    The rest of your statement makes no sense.  I just pointed out in the post you replied to how racist the CEA was (studied it for years in fact), can you point to anything in in H.R. 6210–Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act that is even remotely racist, let alone as racist as the cultural/racial assumptions ascribed to the “yellow peril” in the CEA?  ‘Cause just saying it doesn’t make it true.


    H.R. 6210–Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act does not include any facts that have been verified. This is racism. 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 60 of 84
    robabarobaba Posts: 228member
    waveparticle said:
    robaba said:
    robaba said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    Waiting for "The Chinese Media", aka bot farms, to downplay the following as well, "clearly driven by the political correctness of Sinophobia";

    https://uyghurtribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/UT-judgment-version-for-approval-by-GN-07.25-2.pdf






    H.R.6210 - Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6210

    It is amazing US Congress can pass an act without listing any verifiable evidence. This is democracy!

     :smiley:  :smiley:  :smiley: 

    Not even pretending that distraction isn't the objective.  Wear your bias and subversion with pride comrade!
    This Act has the same spirit of Chinese Exclusion Act that US Congress passed in 1870. That Act is also passed without listing any verifiable evidence. US is representing the bad part of democracy, phony democracy that a law can be passed by a majority vote without evidence. 
    Wow-that’s quite a claim, since the Chinese Exclusion Act is perhaps the high water mark for anti Chinese (and Japanese, and Thai, and Vietnamese, etc since they were often lumped under the same rubric). Do you have any direct evidence from the bill itself that would demonstrate the same or similar levels of blatant racism?  I’ve looked but apparently I’m not seeing what you are seeing.
    I saw PBS documentary of Chinese Exclusion Act. The Workers Party accused Chinese immigrants of stealing their jobs. Congress passed the Act by saying allowing Chinese immigrants would let Eastern culture to destroy Western culture. How do you prove this cultural argument? But this is the reason being used in Congress. 
    Ok, ok, you saw a documentary on the CEA but have you actually red it yourself?  How about read any of the period propaganda pieces by local wealthy (Caucasian) men who had a vested interest in ruling up racial animosity in order to force the divestiture of property owned by SEAsian immigrants in California, Washington and portions of Oregon?  

    The rest of your statement makes no sense.  I just pointed out in the post you replied to how racist the CEA was (studied it for years in fact), can you point to anything in in H.R. 6210–Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act that is even remotely racist, let alone as racist as the cultural/racial assumptions ascribed to the “yellow peril” in the CEA?  ‘Cause just saying it doesn’t make it true.


    H.R. 6210–Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act does not include any facts that have been verified. This is racism. 
    Um, no absent of any other supporting evidence on your part, it’s not.  You might call it racist but it meets exactly non of the criteria on its own.
     If it contains conclusions reached without facts this makes it counterfactual.  Counterfactual is not synonymous or even analogous with racist, although racist arguments may be counterfactual.  So what else makes you think H.R. 6210 is racist?
    edited December 2021
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