A prominent orange dot in macOS Monterey is causing problems for artists

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 34
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,737member
    auxio said:
    If your menu bar is showing up on the LED wall or whatever, you are doing it wrong. 
    Did you read the article?  The dot shows on the screen whether the menu bar is visible or not.  It's overlayed by MacOS itself no matter whether you're running fullscreen or not.  I just tried it out by starting an audio recording with QuickTime and then playing a video fullscreen (no menubar), and the dot is there in the topright corner.  I can't see how any app can overcome this unless they're hooking into MacOS at a lower level than the window server (which would be a security hole).
    Cool story bruh.
    Cool story that perhaps the "bruh, I'm so pro" software you're using (and coincidentally, promoting) has figured out a similar hack to the one the guy on Github has come up with by digging into the list of windows, finding the one which Apple is using to show the dot, and moving it offscreen.  But it's still something Apple themselves should address.

    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 22 of 34
    auxio said:
    If your menu bar is showing up on the LED wall or whatever, you are doing it wrong. 
    Did you read the article?  The dot shows on the screen whether the menu bar is visible or not. 

    I believe he’s referring to the developer here. You’re developing it wrong if you’re just extending display. 
    Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that Apple has a capture API that should be used for presentation apps like these. Even the developer that built ‘undot.app’, referenced in the article, confirms that the true solution is to use the API. 
    roundaboutnowauxioStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 34
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,737member
    kuest said:
    auxio said:
    If your menu bar is showing up on the LED wall or whatever, you are doing it wrong. 
    Did you read the article?  The dot shows on the screen whether the menu bar is visible or not. 

    I believe he’s referring to the developer here. You’re developing it wrong if you’re just extending display. 
    Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that Apple has a capture API that should be used for presentation apps like these. Even the developer that built ‘undot.app’, referenced in the article, confirms that the true solution is to use the API. 
    Fair enough.  I've never developed such an app, so I didn't realize there was a special API for capturing the screen.  But regardless, there are going to be a lot of people doing presentations who don't know all the technical details and are frustrated about this.  For all the times I laud Apple for eliminating the technical complexity people encounter on other platforms, this is one where I feel like they've added it unnecessarily.  The tech "bruhs" here are no different from the Windows power users who believe that everyone should know how to edit the registry, manually install device drivers, etc.
    edited December 2021 muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 34
    Apple knows what is best for you. If Apple says that your entire screen should be orange when the microphone is turned on that Apple must be right because Apple is always right. I am proud of the Apple fan-people for reminding us all of this fact.
    May the butthurt be with you... 🙏
    williamlondonwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 25 of 34
    If the orange dot truly shows through even when applications are in full scree mode, it is yet another example of poor QA on software releases for Apple.
    When i go to full screen, it means i want to be in full control of what is being displayed. Period.

    Lectures, presentations, projection installations, medical records, medical imaging. 
    I don't want to have an element i cannot control.



    To go there, it is that type of attention to detail that epitomized Steve Jobs & he pushed his teams to adhere to that level too.



    Can anyone test Keynote & see how it behaves in presentation mode?
    Final Cut?
    Quicktime?

    Just wonder whether Apple is "using the right API" in their own apps...
    edited December 2021 williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 26 of 34
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,737member
    sandor said:
    If the orange dot truly shows through even when applications are in full scree mode, it is yet another example of poor QA on software releases for Apple.
    When i go to full screen, it means i want to be in full control of what is being displayed. Period.
    Exactly.  I'm sure there are plenty of apps which aren't using this screen capture API which people want to present fullscreen without having the dot.

    Can anyone test Keynote & see how it behaves in presentation mode?
    Final Cut?
    Quicktime?

    Just wonder whether Apple is "using the right API" in their own apps...
    Good call.  It was definitely there when I played a movie fullscreen using QuickTime.  Just tried presenting using Keynote and sure enough, there it is.  I thought it might go away if I was presenting on a secondary display, so I hooked a monitor up to my laptop and presented on it: the dot is still there.

    So yeah, even Apple isn't using it. 
    sandorcrowleymuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 27 of 34
    auxio said:
    sandor said:
    If the orange dot truly shows through even when applications are in full scree mode, it is yet another example of poor QA on software releases for Apple.
    When i go to full screen, it means i want to be in full control of what is being displayed. Period.
    Exactly.  I'm sure there are plenty of apps which aren't using this screen capture API which people want to present fullscreen without having the dot.

    Can anyone test Keynote & see how it behaves in presentation mode?
    Final Cut?
    Quicktime?

    Just wonder whether Apple is "using the right API" in their own apps...
    Good call.  It was definitely there when I played a movie fullscreen using QuickTime.  Just tried presenting using Keynote and sure enough, there it is.  I thought it might go away if I was presenting on a secondary display, so I hooked a monitor up to my laptop and presented on it: the dot is still there.

    So yeah, even Apple isn't using it. 

    Thanks for the leg work, auxio.

    So, to paraphrase Kuest four comments up...   <3  Apple is developing apps wrong for Apple's OS <3
    edited December 2021 crowleymuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 28 of 34
    I will just say this: what tf are Apple engineers doing when they release several new M1 Macs and can't implement an amber LED on them, opposite to or even in the same well as the green LED next to the iSight camera?

    As a matter of fact, all they had to do was add a red element and activate both of them at the same time to get the amber colour. That way, whenever the microphone was on, even if somehow the red or the green element failed for some reason, the other one would still show up, making the system extra resilient even against hardware issues.

    As for the Mac mini and Mac pro, ffs, just add an amber element to the same well where the white LED power indicator is and have it turn on, and allow those users who have their machines on their desks to toggle the yellow dot from the menu bar. Boom, problem solved.

    And the same goes for the iPhone. Even if has to stay permanently on for those who have always-on “Hey Siri”, put an actual LED on the thing (a subtle one that doesn't illuminate an entire dark room, of course). Again, a two green+red LED system would work great: green+red (i.e. amber) for microphone on, red for an actual recording or on-line transmission, and green for webcam on (especially useful for floating, Picture-in-Picture FaceTime calls where you can't see your own thumbnail).
    edited December 2021 crowleywilliamlondon9secondkox2watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 34
    mainyehc said:
    I will just say this: what tf are Apple engineers doing when they release several new M1 Macs and can't implement an amber LED on them, opposite to or even in the same well as the green LED next to the iSight camera?

    As a matter of fact, all they had to do was add a red element and activate both of them at the same time to get the amber colour. That way, whenever the microphone was on, even if somehow the red or the green element failed for some reason, the other one would still show up, making the system extra resilient even against hardware issues.

    As for the Mac mini and Mac pro, ffs, just add an amber element to the same well where the white LED power indicator is and have it turn on, and allow those users who have their machines on their desks to toggle the yellow dot from the menu bar. Boom, problem solved.

    And the same goes for the iPhone. Even if has to stay permanently on for those who have always-on “Hey Siri”, put an actual LED on the thing (a subtle one that doesn't illuminate an entire dark room, of course). Again, a two green+red LED system would work great: green+red (i.e. amber) for microphone on, red for an actual recording or on-line transmission, and green for webcam on (especially useful for floating, Picture-in-Picture FaceTime calls where you can't see your own thumbnail).
    Fully. agree that this should be a hardware light and not a software notification. Should be similar to the way the FaceTime camera light activates. And your idea of the way to implement it is pretty solid.
    anantksundaramwatto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 34
    auxio said:
    auxio said:
    If your menu bar is showing up on the LED wall or whatever, you are doing it wrong. 
    Did you read the article?  The dot shows on the screen whether the menu bar is visible or not.  It's overlayed by MacOS itself no matter whether you're running fullscreen or not.  I just tried it out by starting an audio recording with QuickTime and then playing a video fullscreen (no menubar), and the dot is there in the topright corner.  I can't see how any app can overcome this unless they're hooking into MacOS at a lower level than the window server (which would be a security hole).
    Cool story bruh.
    Cool story that perhaps the "bruh, I'm so pro" software you're using (and coincidentally, promoting) has figured out a similar hack to the one the guy on Github has come up with by digging into the list of windows, finding the one which Apple is using to show the dot, and moving it offscreen.  But it's still something Apple themselves should address.

    Hey,  you know what? After coming back to this and having thought about it, You are right. I was wrong. How about that?  

    Apple does need to address this. It's actually a. glaring error from a company that makes presentation software (Keynote) and who's products are. used heavily in multimedia production. A user. should not have. to resort to "hid the dot" apps or use pro software to resolve this. 
    muthuk_vanalingamcrowleysandoranantksundaramwatto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 34
    kuest said:
    auxio said:
    If your menu bar is showing up on the LED wall or whatever, you are doing it wrong. 
    Did you read the article?  The dot shows on the screen whether the menu bar is visible or not. 

    I believe he’s referring to the developer here. You’re developing it wrong if you’re just extending display. 
    Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that Apple has a capture API that should be used for presentation apps like these. Even the developer that built ‘undot.app’, referenced in the article, confirms that the true solution is to use the API. 
    You are correct. The developer was being referred to. However, as others have pointed out, Apple's own apps like Keynote are not even doing this correctly. So it sounds like an afterthought that Apple should have waited on and moved to the hardware light at the top of the screen instead of software notification. 

    So as much as I hate to be wrong, I was wrong. It shouldn't be a problem that an app developer needs to solve. If it doesn't "just work" it should not be coming from Apple.

    Apple, please. just integrate this feature into the FaceTime camera light? Thanks.
    muthuk_vanalingamsandorcrowleyIreneWwatto_cobrachia
  • Reply 32 of 34
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,265member
    I wonder if there’s a way in Terminal to render the dot a different color, like black, so it would disappear into the background. 
    I searched around but didn’t find any articles about it. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 34
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,357moderator
    hexclock said:
    I wonder if there’s a way in Terminal to render the dot a different color, like black, so it would disappear into the background. 
    I searched around but didn’t find any articles about it. 
    The assets for some of the UI are stored in /System/Library/CoreServices/. They are in different places, Finder ones in Finder.app, Dock ones in Dock.app, the menu bar ones are in Menu Extras. On each of those, right-click > show package contents and the graphics are in Contents/Resources. Some are PNG, some are vectors. I'd expect there to be a file in one of the .menu items in the MenuExtras folder with the orange dot. That file can be opened and saved as empty transparent. This will need system integrity protection disabled.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 34
    Marvin said:
    hexclock said:
    I wonder if there’s a way in Terminal to render the dot a different color, like black, so it would disappear into the background. 
    I searched around but didn’t find any articles about it. 
    The assets for some of the UI are stored in /System/Library/CoreServices/. They are in different places, Finder ones in Finder.app, Dock ones in Dock.app, the menu bar ones are in Menu Extras. On each of those, right-click > show package contents and the graphics are in Contents/Resources. Some are PNG, some are vectors. I'd expect there to be a file in one of the .menu items in the MenuExtras folder with the orange dot. That file can be opened and saved as empty transparent. This will need system integrity protection disabled.
    There isn't one.  I looked.  

    The dot is drawn programmatically with CoreAnimation.  Also, starting in macOS 12.2, the dot was moved to either loginwindow or WindowServer, so there's no way to hide it by deleting the asset or covering it up with an app like yellowdot or undot.  You can, however, disable the service responsible for notifying macOS to draw the dot.  Doing so requires disabling SIP from Recovery mode.  Then run this command:
    sudo launchctl unload -w /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/com.apple.systemstatusd.plist

    ...and reboot the Mac.  Using unload -w makes the change permanent across a reboot.  

    If you want more surgical control over the dot, a Mac developer wrote this utility to show or hide the icon for specific apps.  Still requires disabling SIP, though:

    https://github.com/cormiertyshawn895/RecordingIndicatorUtility

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