Dutch regulators rule Apple must make App Store changes before Jan. 15

Posted:
in General Discussion
Dutch antitrust regulators have ruled that Apple's App Store broke competition laws in the country, and have demanded changes to its in-app payment policy early in 2022.

Apple logo on building
Apple logo on building


Authorities in the country have been investigating Apple's App Store since 2019 on allegations that the company abuses its dominance in the marketplace. In a decision unsealed on Friday, but made in October, Dutch regulators ruled that Apple's requirement that developers use its in-app payment system was anti-competitive.

In a report published on Friday about the ruling, Reuters says that Apple must make changes before Jan. 15. Should it fail to do so, it faces a fine of up to 50 million euros.

The Netherlands' Authority for Consumers and Markets told Apple of its decision in September 2021. At the time, Apple did not comment on the ruling but said the decision was under "legal review."

Apple is facing similar antitrust pressure in South Korea, where regulators also ruled that Apple's in-app payment requirements were anti-competitive. The company has pushed back against the new regulations in South Korea, claiming that it is already in compliance.

Additionally, Apple is also facing antitrust pressure in its home country. The U.S. Department of Justice is in the midst of a yearlong probe into Apple's business practices, and reports indicate that the investigation could result in a lawsuit.

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 26
    I know it’s not a logical action, but if I were  I’d say, “Sorry, we will not comply. Instead we will be closing our App Store and no longer sell iPhones in your country.”

    Add to this, with South Korea trying the same shit, Apple should tell them, “We will also send all our product production to other countries.”

    Apple invented their iPhone, and their ecosystem. No one has to use it, no developer has to program for it. If you want to play in their garden, you pay for that privilege. 
    edited December 2021 williamlondondewmeaderutterDogpersonrob53MacProbloggerblogzeus423genovelledaven
  • Reply 2 of 26
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Meanwhile, while western societies attack their capitalist corporations with little or no clear benefit to anybody, China exploits capitalism and eats western corporations for breakfast.

    When you do the right things, right things tend to happen
    When you do wrong things, wrong things tend to happen.
    ...It's an old eastern truism called "Kharma".  We should have learned from them instead of lecturing them.
    scstrrfj2fusiontokyojimudewmedaven
  • Reply 3 of 26
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,251member
    Still trying to understand how Apple’s payment system is anti-competitive. Costco only allows Visa, no other credit cards allowed. Isn’t that anti-competitive? Apple needs to file suit against all these countries, including the US, for baseless suits along with discriminatory actions, picking and choosing who to sue. 
    williamlondonDnykjpRfC6fnBsdewmeaderutterMacProGeorgeBMacbloggerblogzeus423StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 26
    Before Jan 15. What a joke. Not going to happen: Apple, pay the fine and keep your ecosystem. Nobody has the right to tell you how to run your shop.
    williamlondonDnykjpRfC6fnBsMacsWithPenguinsdewmeaderutterMacProbloggerblogwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 26
    AniMill said:
    I know it’s not a logical action, but if I were  I’d say, “Sorry, we will not comply. Instead we will be closing our App Store and no longer sell iPhones in your country.”

    Add to this, with South Korea trying the same shit, Apple should tell them, “We will also send all our product production to other countries.”

    Apple invented their iPhone, and their ecosystem. No one has to use it, no developer has to program for it. If you want to play in their garden, you pay for that privilege. 
    Abuses it dominance? All I ever see is AAPL in 3rd or 4th place in Mac computer sales. How they are number 1 in smart phone sales in the USA only globally Android and Samsung it is. Why can’t I use Apple Pay at 
    Amazon who offers Amazon pay only, how is that fair to Apple Google or Samsung. 
    I am with you on this: they should close up shop, block App Store sales and let those countries that try this crap deal with the upset customers their policies have created. 
    williamlondonMacsWithPenguinsDogpersonGeorgeBMaczeus423watto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 26
    rob53 said:
    Still trying to understand how Apple’s payment system is anti-competitive. Costco only allows Visa, no other credit cards allowed. Isn’t that anti-competitive? Apple needs to file suit against all these countries, including the US, for baseless suits along with discriminatory actions, picking and choosing who to sue. 

    It’s like also how Walmart does not allow anything except Walmart pay but not Apple Google or Samsung pay. Or on Amazon website you can use Amazon pay but none of the above. 

    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 26
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,093member
    It's such an odd ruling.  I hope Apple still has options to fight this ruling.  It makes zero sense.  It's Apple's hardware, software, and ecosystem.  I don't see how the Dutch can say that Apple is abusing its dominance?  If you the developer want access to Apple's ecosystem (i.e. Customers) that Apple puts in tons of resources into obtaining, and keeping current users loyal, then you the whiny developer has to play by the house rules.

    I'm all about Apple playing within the confines of a country's rules.  This one through, I do hope that Apple just shuts/slams the door on them.
    williamlondondewmeaderutterDogpersonGeorgeBMaczeus423watto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 26
    sflocal said:
    It's such an odd ruling.  I hope Apple still has options to fight this ruling.  It makes zero sense.  It's Apple's hardware, software, and ecosystem.  I don't see how the Dutch can say that Apple is abusing its dominance?  If you the developer want access to Apple's ecosystem (i.e. Customers) that Apple puts in tons of resources into obtaining, and keeping current users loyal, then you the whiny developer has to play by the house rules.

    I'm all about Apple playing within the confines of a country's rules.  This one through, I do hope that Apple just shuts/slams the door on them.
    It is not odd. Socialists like free lunch. 
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 26
    AniMill said:
    I know it’s not a logical action, but if I were  I’d say, “Sorry, we will not comply. Instead we will be closing our App Store and no longer sell iPhones in your country.”

    Add to this, with South Korea trying the same shit, Apple should tell them, “We will also send all our product production to other countries.”

    Apple invented their iPhone, and their ecosystem. No one has to use it, no developer has to program for it. If you want to play in their garden, you pay for that privilege. 
    Holding a nation digitally hostage would only legally confirm abuse of a monopoly (or duopoly, taking in account Google). 
    It is a very dumb move, legally speaking. Think of the hundreds of companies doing business through the App Store, directly or indirectly. You’d end up with both consumer and enterprise damage claims. 
    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 10 of 26
    Somebody is hoping for a 50 million dollar Christmas gift from Apple. 
    MacProwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 26
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,049member
    AniMill said:
    I know it’s not a logical action, but if I were  I’d say, “Sorry, we will not comply. Instead we will be closing our App Store and no longer sell iPhones in your country.”

    Add to this, with South Korea trying the same shit, Apple should tell them, “We will also send all our product production to other countries.”

    Apple invented their iPhone, and their ecosystem. No one has to use it, no developer has to program for it. If you want to play in their garden, you pay for that privilege. 
    Holding a nation digitally hostage would only legally confirm abuse of a monopoly (or duopoly, taking in account Google). 
    It is a very dumb move, legally speaking. Think of the hundreds of companies doing business through the App Store, directly or indirectly. You’d end up with both consumer and enterprise damage claims. 
    Where does Apple have a "monopoly"? With iOS? The Apple App Store? iPhones? Just because some idiot CEO of a game company claims that Apple have a "monopoly"  and you believe it, it doesn't mean Apple is a "monopoly". So far that idiot CEO has probably  spent hundreds of millions  (not including the hundreds of millions lost from not having his top game in the Apple App Store and Google Play Store for over a year and still.) in legal cost trying to prove it and has not proven in any courts that Apple is or have a "monopoly".  


    And just one entity of a duopoly can not be accused of abusing a "duopoly". Both entities must be accused of the same abuse. Like collusion or price fixing. A duopoly can consist of one entity owning 35% of the market and the other owning 55%. How can the 35% entity be abusing their duopoly and the 55% entity not? In order for one entity of a duopoly to be accused of abusing a duopoly, that entity must already be considered a monopoly. (In the true anti-trust meaning of a monopoly, not what you or that idiot CEO think a monopoly is.) 


    MacProwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 26
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    sflocal said:
    It's such an odd ruling.  I hope Apple still has options to fight this ruling.  It makes zero sense.  It's Apple's hardware, software, and ecosystem.  I don't see how the Dutch can say that Apple is abusing its dominance?  If you the developer want access to Apple's ecosystem (i.e. Customers) that Apple puts in tons of resources into obtaining, and keeping current users loyal, then you the whiny developer has to play by the house rules.

    I'm all about Apple playing within the confines of a country's rules.  This one through, I do hope that Apple just shuts/slams the door on them.
    It is not odd. Socialists like free lunch. 

    This has nothing to do with socialism and everything to do with attacking capitalism under the guise of protecting it. 
  • Reply 13 of 26
    hriw-annon@xs4all.nl[email protected] Posts: 61unconfirmed, member
    We’ll see more and more of this. This is how the wind is blowing. Things are going to get messy.
    First Apple will appeal and ask for a stay until the appeal is done, which might work, it did in the US.
    Then they will try to do something like Google has already announced for South Korea, they will collect the same fee with a single digit percentage deduction for developers that use another payment processor. That will result near zero benefits for the developers, so attention will then shift to alternate app stores. Then there will be a long argument about how to do that in a way that is not a total sh*tshow for everybody except thieves and scammers, like it is in China. Apple and Google will try to explain that’s not possible and lawmakers and regulators will put their cluelessness on parade saying how tech is basically magic and techies are smart enough to make their fantasies work if they just stop being so difficult.
  • Reply 14 of 26
    sflocal said:
    It's such an odd ruling.  I hope Apple still has options to fight this ruling.  It makes zero sense.  It's Apple's hardware, software, and ecosystem.  I don't see how the Dutch can say that Apple is abusing its dominance?  If you the developer want access to Apple's ecosystem (i.e. Customers) that Apple puts in tons of resources into obtaining, and keeping current users loyal, then you the whiny developer has to play by the house rules.

    I'm all about Apple playing within the confines of a country's rules.  This one through, I do hope that Apple just shuts/slams the door on them.
    It is not odd. Socialists like free lunch. 

    This has nothing to do with socialism and everything to do with attacking capitalism under the guise of protecting it. 
    Capitalism and socialism is a duality. They live together but attack each other. 
  • Reply 15 of 26
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    sflocal said:
    It's such an odd ruling.  I hope Apple still has options to fight this ruling.  It makes zero sense.  It's Apple's hardware, software, and ecosystem.  I don't see how the Dutch can say that Apple is abusing its dominance?  If you the developer want access to Apple's ecosystem (i.e. Customers) that Apple puts in tons of resources into obtaining, and keeping current users loyal, then you the whiny developer has to play by the house rules.

    I'm all about Apple playing within the confines of a country's rules.  This one through, I do hope that Apple just shuts/slams the door on them.
    It is not odd. Socialists like free lunch. 

    This has nothing to do with socialism and everything to do with attacking capitalism under the guise of protecting it. 
    Capitalism and socialism is a duality. They live together but attack each other. 

    True! but that has a lot to do with both self-interest and ideology.
    But, when two opposites do battle, it usually works out that each is a little bit right and a little bit wrong -- and the best answer is to take the best of each.
  • Reply 16 of 26
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    sflocal said:
    It's such an odd ruling.  I hope Apple still has options to fight this ruling.  It makes zero sense.  It's Apple's hardware, software, and ecosystem.  I don't see how the Dutch can say that Apple is abusing its dominance?  If you the developer want access to Apple's ecosystem (i.e. Customers) that Apple puts in tons of resources into obtaining, and keeping current users loyal, then you the whiny developer has to play by the house rules.

    I'm all about Apple playing within the confines of a country's rules.  This one through, I do hope that Apple just shuts/slams the door on them.
    It is not odd. Socialists like free lunch. 

    This has nothing to do with socialism and everything to do with attacking capitalism under the guise of protecting it. 
    Capitalism and socialism is a duality. They live together but attack each other. 
    Get better fortune cookies.
  • Reply 17 of 26
    AniMill said:
    I know it’s not a logical action, but if I were  I’d say, “Sorry, we will not comply. Instead we will be closing our App Store and no longer sell iPhones in your country.”

    Add to this, with South Korea trying the same shit, Apple should tell them, “We will also send all our product production to other countries.”

    Apple invented their iPhone, and their ecosystem. No one has to use it, no developer has to program for it. If you want to play in their garden, you pay for that privilege. 
    Holding a nation digitally hostage would only legally confirm abuse of a monopoly (or duopoly, taking in account Google). 
    It is a very dumb move, legally speaking. Think of the hundreds of companies doing business through the App Store, directly or indirectly. You’d end up with both consumer and enterprise damage claims. 
    Send the bill for each sale accessing their network without paying to the agency enforcing this garbage. Let them figure out how to get apple’s commission for access. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 26
    davendaven Posts: 696member
    Match Group is more of a monopoly in the dating arena than Apple is in the mobile device arena. Match has been buying former competitors like Plenty of Fish, etc. so if you want to find someone online, you will almost certainly pay their high prices. Is the court going to require Match allow free contacts between users?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 26
    AniMill said:
    I know it’s not a logical action, but if I were  I’d say, “Sorry, we will not comply. Instead we will be closing our App Store and no longer sell iPhones in your country.”

    Add to this, with South Korea trying the same shit, Apple should tell them, “We will also send all our product production to other countries.”

    Apple invented their iPhone, and their ecosystem. No one has to use it, no developer has to program for it. If you want to play in their garden, you pay for that privilege. 
    I’m from The Netherlands and I love Apple products and use them since 1995. I don’t see how your (indeed illogical) solution would add to justice: as a Dutch user I don’t have anything to do with this matter. 
    Furthermore, it’s more nuanced than it seems (as always in complicated matters like this, so I don’t even bother responding to some other completely senseless reactions in this thread). This ruling is only about dating apps, with the reason given, that the dating market these days has no other ways of earning money, than through dating apps, which completely depends on the App Store. It doesn’t seem to apply to other app makers, like Epic, which has other ways of collecting money, and aren’t dependent on the App Store. This ruling will of course ultimately also be applied to the Google Play Store, because their guidelines are about the same as Apple’s.

    Me myself, I’m not sure. It is really complicated and has already previously been explained quite well in an old article, here on AppleInsider. I tend to not agree with the ruling, because back in 2008, when the App Store came alive, it was a godsend. Back then you’d pay about 70% to middlemen and physical stores to get your software in the hand of the customer. On the other hand: these days there are lots of alternative payment options, so blocking app makers from using them might be anti competitive. 
    Maybe it helps if Apple would make using the App Store cheaper, to make it unattractive to use other payment options (which Apple already partially did). 
    But the main reason for some app makers seem to be to own payment user data, and for that reason alone, I hope Apple will find a legal way to fight te ruling. 
    edited December 2021 tenthousandthingsgatorguywatto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 26
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,847member
    Long term Apple probably will need to create different phones for different regions of the world, some iPhones have all functionality (US) and others Europe, Russia, China have less….
    watto_cobra
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