Alexa tells 10-year-old girl to touch live electrical socket with penny

13»

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 52
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,150member
    crowley said:
    mretondo said:
    It is physically impossible to insert a plug in a socket and touch the life metal parts, not even with a penny. Plug and socket are constructed that way.  Both have to follow strict standards. If both are constructed as imposed by those standards, nothing could happen to the girl. 
    That’s not to say Alexa should have such a challenge.  That’s not acceptable behaviour for a smart speaker. But the little girl was never in danger. Not even when she had done what Alex instructed her to do. 
    You can absolutely do this in the US. Our plugs are a terrible design.
    Yes we can do that in the US, but I prefer the convenience of US plugs over European’s overly complex and large plugs
    ???

    European plugs are basically the same as US plugs, just with cylindrical prongs instead of flat ones.  UK plugs are the larger (slightly)  and more complex (with actual safety features!) ones.


    That's not a fair comparison. All the pictures are of plugs made by the same company using a standard size receptacle case for all the various plugs in different countries. 

    In the US, the vast majority of electrical devices only needs a 2 prong polarized plug. They do not require the third ground prong. Only heavy duty appliances like refrigerators, microwaves, air conditioners, garbage disposals, computer cases with exposed metal and internal power supply, shop tools, non double insulated corded power hand tools, etc., requires grounding. Wheres the Apple TV here in the US can get by using a small 2 prong plug, the Apple TV in the UK still requires their standard 3 prong plug.  

    But in the UK, every electrical device requires the third ground prong. without it, one would not be able to insert the plug into the socket as the third prong is needed to release the door blocking the other two prong from reaching the live contacts in the socket. Plus there need to be room for a fuse in the plug. 

    Here's what the cord and plug looks like for an Apple TV in the UK

    https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Gadget-SolutionsTM-Figure-Laptop/dp/B01MR4XEED/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=uk+plug+for+apple+tv&qid=1640963711&sr=8-4

    Here's the cord and plug for an Apple TV in the US

    https://www.amazon.com/Listed-Prong-Power-Compatible-Generation/dp/B07G23GVYN/ref=sr_1_12_sspa?crid=CBIF75XMJAYK&keywords=uk+plug+for+apple+tv&qid=1640953401&sprefix=uk+plug+for+apple+tv,aps,305&sr=8-12-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExS1c1MUlaT1o0MjFOJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDc2OTY5WUVMWTRCODhIRFdPJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA5MDEyNjYyVjlZRDlVQTQ5OVIwJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfbXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

    Here's a US three prong plug. 

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002GRUIM?pd_rd_i=B0002GRUIM&pd_rd_w=abNsi&pf_rd_p=7ea8e9d0-fed1-49e8-a002-f2d3f5cb151d&pd_rd_wg=yEl6j&pf_rd_r=TDGZF9YX9TVXNS320M7X&pd_rd_r=2bda7f99-05bc-4431-a934-c9f43dfedce2

    No way is the UK 3 prong plug only "slightly" larger than the US 3 prong plug. 


    edited December 2021
    bloggerblog
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 42 of 52
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,150member

    MplsP said:
    crowley said:
    mretondo said:
    It is physically impossible to insert a plug in a socket and touch the life metal parts, not even with a penny. Plug and socket are constructed that way.  Both have to follow strict standards. If both are constructed as imposed by those standards, nothing could happen to the girl. 
    That’s not to say Alexa should have such a challenge.  That’s not acceptable behaviour for a smart speaker. But the little girl was never in danger. Not even when she had done what Alex instructed her to do. 
    You can absolutely do this in the US. Our plugs are a terrible design.
    Yes we can do that in the US, but I prefer the convenience of US plugs over European’s overly complex and large plugs
    ???

    European plugs are basically the same as US plugs, just with cylindrical prongs instead of flat ones.  UK plugs are the larger (slightly)  and more complex (with actual safety features!) ones.


    The newer EU plugs are designed like the UK plug - the body of the prongs is an insulator and the conductor is is confined to the end. 

    There’s somewhat of a debate in the US over the ‘proper’ orientation of a grounded plug. Does the ground pion belong on top, like the UK orientation above, or on the bottom so it looks like eyes and a nose/mouth. One of the arguments for having it on top is to prevent something from falling across the conducting leads.
    How you want to orient the ground pin (top or bottom) depends on the plug you need to plug in. With most right angle 3 prong plug that comes with appliances, the ground pin usually needs to be oriented on the bottom. This because with most right angle 3 pin plug that comes with the likes of a refrigerator or microwave, the wire goes into the plug on the side with the ground pin. Thus it's better to orient the ground pin on the bottom, so that it can be plugged into the bottom socket without straining the cord and having the cord block the other socket. An outlet with the ground pin on top would require the cord to extend upward before turning downward. Thus putting a strain on the cord.  

    This is what most right angle plug that comes with an appliance looks like. Of course if one wants to, it can be replaced it with a right angle plug where the cord enters the plug on the 2 prong side. But few will go through the trouble.

    https://www.amazon.com/Certified-Appliance-Accessories-15-Amp-90°-Plug/dp/B0011FPLP2/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=replacement+plug+for+refrigerator&qid=1640955807&sr=8-3

    Even with most right angle 2 prong polarized cord, the shorter hot slot must be on the right, in order for the cord to hang naturally downward. Which means a 3 prong outlet must be oriented with the ground pin on the bottom. 

    https://www.amazon.com/Polarized-2-Prong-Male-Female-Extension-cable10A/dp/B07XM1TJXC/ref=sr_1_54?crid=5HHK2MKPR6FU&keywords=right+angle+power+cord&qid=1640962451&s=hi&sprefix=right+angle+power+cord+,tools,165&sr=1-54

    But with 3 pin plugs where the cord goes straight in from behind the prongs, the better practice would be to orient the ground pin on the top. 

    The reason why most grounded outlet seems to have the ground pin on the bottom is because back in the days when nearly all outlets were two prongs, the hot "shorter" slot was nearly always positioned on the right. And this is the position it's in when a grounded outlet is oriented with the ground pin on the bottom. I don't think there was any electrical code that requires the "shorter" hot prong slot to be on the right side of an outlet. But even if you were to remove the outlet device and hold it without the cover plate so all that letters and numbers stamped on to it are right side up, you will nearly always be holding the outlet with the shorter hot slot on the right or the ground pin on the bottom. No matter the manufacturer.  You can not have an outlet with the ground pin on the top and the hot slot on the right. That would be an electrical code violation. 
    edited December 2021
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 43 of 52
    mretondo said:
    It is physically impossible to insert a plug in a socket and touch the life metal parts, not even with a penny. Plug and socket are constructed that way.  Both have to follow strict standards. If both are constructed as imposed by those standards, nothing could happen to the girl. 
    That’s not to say Alexa should have such a challenge.  That’s not acceptable behaviour for a smart speaker. But the little girl was never in danger. Not even when she had done what Alex instructed her to do. 
    You can absolutely do this in the US. Our plugs are a terrible design.
    The US electrical plug has been a standard for decades and the fact that it does not result in electrical shocks like described demonstrates its safety.  Anyone can force anything to be unsafe that in no way invalids it’s design or safety. 
    edited December 2021
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 44 of 52
    Xedxed Posts: 3,114member
    mretondo said:
    It is physically impossible to insert a plug in a socket and touch the life metal parts, not even with a penny. Plug and socket are constructed that way.  Both have to follow strict standards. If both are constructed as imposed by those standards, nothing could happen to the girl. 
    That’s not to say Alexa should have such a challenge.  That’s not acceptable behaviour for a smart speaker. But the little girl was never in danger. Not even when she had done what Alex instructed her to do. 
    You can absolutely do this in the US. Our plugs are a terrible design.
    The US electrical plug has been a standard for decades and the fact that it does not result in electrical shocks like described demonstrates its safety.  Anyone can force anything to be unsafe that in no way invalids it’s design or safety. 
    Lots of things are a standard that are a poor design. As previously shown, the UK plug is a superior design for safety.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 45 of 52
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    davidw said:
    crowley said:
    mretondo said:
    It is physically impossible to insert a plug in a socket and touch the life metal parts, not even with a penny. Plug and socket are constructed that way.  Both have to follow strict standards. If both are constructed as imposed by those standards, nothing could happen to the girl. 
    That’s not to say Alexa should have such a challenge.  That’s not acceptable behaviour for a smart speaker. But the little girl was never in danger. Not even when she had done what Alex instructed her to do. 
    You can absolutely do this in the US. Our plugs are a terrible design.
    Yes we can do that in the US, but I prefer the convenience of US plugs over European’s overly complex and large plugs
    ???

    European plugs are basically the same as US plugs, just with cylindrical prongs instead of flat ones.  UK plugs are the larger (slightly)  and more complex (with actual safety features!) ones.


    That's not a fair comparison. All the pictures are of plugs made by the same company using a standard size receptacle case for all the various plugs in different countries. 

    In the US, the vast majority of electrical devices only needs a 2 prong polarized plug. They do not require the third ground prong. Only heavy duty appliances like refrigerators, microwaves, air conditioners, garbage disposals, computer cases with exposed metal and internal power supply, shop tools, non double insulated corded power hand tools, etc., requires grounding. Wheres the Apple TV here in the US can get by using a small 2 prong plug, the Apple TV in the UK still requires their standard 3 prong plug.  

    But in the UK, every electrical device requires the third ground prong. without it, one would not be able to insert the plug into the socket as the third prong is needed to release the door blocking the other two prong from reaching the live contacts in the socket. Plus there need to be room for a fuse in the plug. 

    Here's what the cord and plug looks like for an Apple TV in the UK

    https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Gadget-SolutionsTM-Figure-Laptop/dp/B01MR4XEED/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=uk+plug+for+apple+tv&qid=1640963711&sr=8-4

    Here's the cord and plug for an Apple TV in the US

    https://www.amazon.com/Listed-Prong-Power-Compatible-Generation/dp/B07G23GVYN/ref=sr_1_12_sspa?crid=CBIF75XMJAYK&keywords=uk+plug+for+apple+tv&qid=1640953401&sprefix=uk+plug+for+apple+tv,aps,305&sr=8-12-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExS1c1MUlaT1o0MjFOJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDc2OTY5WUVMWTRCODhIRFdPJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA5MDEyNjYyVjlZRDlVQTQ5OVIwJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfbXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

    Here's a US three prong plug. 

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002GRUIM?pd_rd_i=B0002GRUIM&pd_rd_w=abNsi&pf_rd_p=7ea8e9d0-fed1-49e8-a002-f2d3f5cb151d&pd_rd_wg=yEl6j&pf_rd_r=TDGZF9YX9TVXNS320M7X&pd_rd_r=2bda7f99-05bc-4431-a934-c9f43dfedce2

    No way is the UK 3 prong plug only "slightly" larger than the US 3 prong plug. 

    You seem to have missed the point of the picture.  It was to illustrate how similar the US and EU plugs are, in response to a post that said European plugs are large and complex.  

    And I don't know why you're explaining the UK plug to me, I live here, and was taught how to rewire a plug in secondary school (junior high, approximately).  None of what you've said is particularly pertinent, and is better explained in the Tom Scott video already posted.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 46 of 52
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,150member
    crowley said:
    davidw said:
    crowley said:
    mretondo said:
    It is physically impossible to insert a plug in a socket and touch the life metal parts, not even with a penny. Plug and socket are constructed that way.  Both have to follow strict standards. If both are constructed as imposed by those standards, nothing could happen to the girl. 
    That’s not to say Alexa should have such a challenge.  That’s not acceptable behaviour for a smart speaker. But the little girl was never in danger. Not even when she had done what Alex instructed her to do. 
    You can absolutely do this in the US. Our plugs are a terrible design.
    Yes we can do that in the US, but I prefer the convenience of US plugs over European’s overly complex and large plugs
    ???

    European plugs are basically the same as US plugs, just with cylindrical prongs instead of flat ones.  UK plugs are the larger (slightly)  and more complex (with actual safety features!) ones.


    That's not a fair comparison. All the pictures are of plugs made by the same company using a standard size receptacle case for all the various plugs in different countries. 

    In the US, the vast majority of electrical devices only needs a 2 prong polarized plug. They do not require the third ground prong. Only heavy duty appliances like refrigerators, microwaves, air conditioners, garbage disposals, computer cases with exposed metal and internal power supply, shop tools, non double insulated corded power hand tools, etc., requires grounding. Wheres the Apple TV here in the US can get by using a small 2 prong plug, the Apple TV in the UK still requires their standard 3 prong plug.  

    But in the UK, every electrical device requires the third ground prong. without it, one would not be able to insert the plug into the socket as the third prong is needed to release the door blocking the other two prong from reaching the live contacts in the socket. Plus there need to be room for a fuse in the plug. 

    Here's what the cord and plug looks like for an Apple TV in the UK

    https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Gadget-SolutionsTM-Figure-Laptop/dp/B01MR4XEED/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=uk+plug+for+apple+tv&qid=1640963711&sr=8-4

    Here's the cord and plug for an Apple TV in the US

    https://www.amazon.com/Listed-Prong-Power-Compatible-Generation/dp/B07G23GVYN/ref=sr_1_12_sspa?crid=CBIF75XMJAYK&keywords=uk+plug+for+apple+tv&qid=1640953401&sprefix=uk+plug+for+apple+tv,aps,305&sr=8-12-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExS1c1MUlaT1o0MjFOJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDc2OTY5WUVMWTRCODhIRFdPJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA5MDEyNjYyVjlZRDlVQTQ5OVIwJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfbXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

    Here's a US three prong plug. 

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002GRUIM?pd_rd_i=B0002GRUIM&pd_rd_w=abNsi&pf_rd_p=7ea8e9d0-fed1-49e8-a002-f2d3f5cb151d&pd_rd_wg=yEl6j&pf_rd_r=TDGZF9YX9TVXNS320M7X&pd_rd_r=2bda7f99-05bc-4431-a934-c9f43dfedce2

    No way is the UK 3 prong plug only "slightly" larger than the US 3 prong plug. 

    You seem to have missed the point of the picture.  It was to illustrate how similar the US and EU plugs are, in response to a post that said European plugs are large and complex.  

    And I don't know why you're explaining the UK plug to me, I live here, and was taught how to rewire a plug in secondary school (junior high, approximately).  None of what you've said is particularly pertinent, and is better explained in the Tom Scott video already posted.
    And I pointed out to you that the picture you have of a US plug is not even close to that of most US 2 or 3 prong plugs. The pictures you posted of the various plugs from different counties are made by the same company using their own standard receptacle case, that they use for all the various plugs they make. So it's no wonder that they all look similar and about the same size in your photos. You did not make a fair comparison or show any proof that the UK plug is just "slightly larger" than a US plug, as you stated. 

    Anyone seeing the common US 2 and 3 prong plugs in the links i posted, could see that the US plugs are not at all "similar" or only "slightly" smaller in size, to the UK plug.  And the reason we all agree on, is because the UK plug is more "complex", as explained in the Scott video and no one is disputing this. Plus the UK plug is built to handle 240V. While the US plug only need to handle 120V. The UK plug in your picture can not be made any smaller. While the  2 prong US plug pictured can be made less than half the size shown. (Or less than 2/3 the size shown if for a US 3 prong plug.)  

    Here's a link to a photo of a US hair dryer with the required (since the 90's) GFIC plug. The 2 prong GFIC plug is about the size of a UK plug and more complex (internally) and safer, without needing any special socket. Any such requirement in the UK? If so, the GFCI (RCD) plug probably wouldn't be much larger than the US version. "Wall Wart" power supplies in the UK are not much larger than similar ones in the US. 

    https://www.amazon.com/Ionic-Professional-Ceramic-Tourmaline-Technology/dp/B08ZSFQK7G

    BYW- a 240v US plug is about the same size as a UK plug. The US 240V plug and socket do not have all the safety features of the UK plug and socket. But then again, in the US, 240V outlets are not found in the bedroom, bathroom, den or living room. The 240v outlets are only use for large stationary appliances like the stove and electric clothes dryer. Which do not get unplugged after each use. We here do not plug our TV, computer, lights, stereo, toaster, hair dryer, etc., into a 240v outlet. Even though 120v can kill someone just as instantly as 240v. Working and dealing with 240v is much more dangerous than working and dealing with 120v.   



     
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 47 of 52
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    davidw said:

    Anyone seeing the common US 2 and 3 prong plugs in the links i posted, could see that the US plugs are not at all "similar" or only "slightly" smaller in size, to the UK plug.
    Again, I didn't say it was similar to the UK plug, I said the exact opposite, that the UK plug is more complex and larger.  I said the US plug is similar to the EU plug, which it is, aside from cylindrical prongs.  The prongs don't change with a different housing, so everything else you're saying is basically irrelevant.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 48 of 52
    thttht Posts: 5,899member
    tht said:
    Well maybe it would be impossible with a plug that has a transformer attached or something but I mean it wouldn’t be impossible for a very simple plug with a very minimal amount of rubber attached like quite a few plugs are in the U.S.
    ...
    So, Amazon's search engine got a search engine hit on something that involved a challenge that had a lot of views, never mind that it was something so utterly stupid, so unethical for the company to do, and so super-litigable. The page or content did not include enough safety or social safety keywords from the start to filter it out. They will always amplify first, and wait until someone makes it a problem before stopping the amplification.
    It's not as simple as that. The web page has plenty of warnings, but how the content was composed within the HTML markup, Alexa grabbed a "summary" of the page and extracted that as the main page content. Scraping web pages this way is exactly how search engines like Google work, too. They grab a summary snippet, and it just so happened that this challenge's text was written into the page in such a way that it became the summary.

    Amazon probably "fixed" this issue by blacklisting that particular extraction, rather than changing how Alexa works, although it's also possible that blacklisting is a corrective teaching moment for Alexa. Alexa would need to re-analyze the entire web page to learn "why" this was an incorrect response. Context is important.
    I was thinking about the search engine. How did Amazon determine that this website should be the one to respond with. Surely, it has to be keyword matching to the words "challenge to do", and the top hit has to be a match of a gestalt of keywords or properties associated with the website, including its popularity, Tiktok, virality/notoriety, etc. It then was able take it, present the challenge and even provide a timer as an answer. The challenge is over a year old and largely determined to be dangerous. Whatever match criteria they had, they either ignored all the safety criteria for the search match or they didn't have any?
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 49 of 52
    davidw said:
    crowley said:
    davidw said:
    crowley said:
    mretondo said:
    It is physically impossible to insert a plug in a socket and touch the life metal parts, not even with a penny. Plug and socket are constructed that way.  Both have to follow strict standards. If both are constructed as imposed by those standards, nothing could happen to the girl. 
    That’s not to say Alexa should have such a challenge.  That’s not acceptable behaviour for a smart speaker. But the little girl was never in danger. Not even when she had done what Alex instructed her to do. 
    You can absolutely do this in the US. Our plugs are a terrible design.
    Yes we can do that in the US, but I prefer the convenience of US plugs over European’s overly complex and large plugs
    ???

    European plugs are basically the same as US plugs, just with cylindrical prongs instead of flat ones.  UK plugs are the larger (slightly)  and more complex (with actual safety features!) ones.


    That's not a fair comparison. All the pictures are of plugs made by the same company using a standard size receptacle case for all the various plugs in different countries. 

    In the US, the vast majority of electrical devices only needs a 2 prong polarized plug. They do not require the third ground prong. Only heavy duty appliances like refrigerators, microwaves, air conditioners, garbage disposals, computer cases with exposed metal and internal power supply, shop tools, non double insulated corded power hand tools, etc., requires grounding. Wheres the Apple TV here in the US can get by using a small 2 prong plug, the Apple TV in the UK still requires their standard 3 prong plug.  

    But in the UK, every electrical device requires the third ground prong. without it, one would not be able to insert the plug into the socket as the third prong is needed to release the door blocking the other two prong from reaching the live contacts in the socket. Plus there need to be room for a fuse in the plug. 

    Here's what the cord and plug looks like for an Apple TV in the UK

    https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Gadget-SolutionsTM-Figure-Laptop/dp/B01MR4XEED/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=uk+plug+for+apple+tv&qid=1640963711&sr=8-4

    Here's the cord and plug for an Apple TV in the US

    https://www.amazon.com/Listed-Prong-Power-Compatible-Generation/dp/B07G23GVYN/ref=sr_1_12_sspa?crid=CBIF75XMJAYK&keywords=uk+plug+for+apple+tv&qid=1640953401&sprefix=uk+plug+for+apple+tv,aps,305&sr=8-12-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExS1c1MUlaT1o0MjFOJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDc2OTY5WUVMWTRCODhIRFdPJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA5MDEyNjYyVjlZRDlVQTQ5OVIwJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfbXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

    Here's a US three prong plug. 

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002GRUIM?pd_rd_i=B0002GRUIM&pd_rd_w=abNsi&pf_rd_p=7ea8e9d0-fed1-49e8-a002-f2d3f5cb151d&pd_rd_wg=yEl6j&pf_rd_r=TDGZF9YX9TVXNS320M7X&pd_rd_r=2bda7f99-05bc-4431-a934-c9f43dfedce2

    No way is the UK 3 prong plug only "slightly" larger than the US 3 prong plug. 

    You seem to have missed the point of the picture.  It was to illustrate how similar the US and EU plugs are, in response to a post that said European plugs are large and complex.  

    And I don't know why you're explaining the UK plug to me, I live here, and was taught how to rewire a plug in secondary school (junior high, approximately).  None of what you've said is particularly pertinent, and is better explained in the Tom Scott video already posted.
    And I pointed out to you that the picture you have of a US plug is not even close to that of most US 2 or 3 prong plugs. The pictures you posted of the various plugs from different counties are made by the same company using their own standard receptacle case, that they use for all the various plugs they make. So it's no wonder that they all look similar and about the same size in your photos. You did not make a fair comparison or show any proof that the UK plug is just "slightly larger" than a US plug, as you stated. 

    Anyone seeing the common US 2 and 3 prong plugs in the links i posted, could see that the US plugs are not at all "similar" or only "slightly" smaller in size, to the UK plug.  And the reason we all agree on, is because the UK plug is more "complex", as explained in the Scott video and no one is disputing this. Plus the UK plug is built to handle 240V. While the US plug only need to handle 120V. The UK plug in your picture can not be made any smaller. While the  2 prong US plug pictured can be made less than half the size shown. (Or less than 2/3 the size shown if for a US 3 prong plug.)  

    Here's a link to a photo of a US hair dryer with the required (since the 90's) GFIC plug. The 2 prong GFIC plug is about the size of a UK plug and more complex (internally) and safer, without needing any special socket. Any such requirement in the UK? If so, the GFCI (RCD) plug probably wouldn't be much larger than the US version. "Wall Wart" power supplies in the UK are not much larger than similar ones in the US. 

    https://www.amazon.com/Ionic-Professional-Ceramic-Tourmaline-Technology/dp/B08ZSFQK7G

    BYW- a 240v US plug is about the same size as a UK plug. The US 240V plug and socket do not have all the safety features of the UK plug and socket. But then again, in the US, 240V outlets are not found in the bedroom, bathroom, den or living room. The 240v outlets are only use for large stationary appliances like the stove and electric clothes dryer. Which do not get unplugged after each use. We here do not plug our TV, computer, lights, stereo, toaster, hair dryer, etc., into a 240v outlet. Even though 120v can kill someone just as instantly as 240v. Working and dealing with 240v is much more dangerous than working and dealing with 120v.   



     
    I agree with Davidw. I live in the U.S. and I have never in my life seen a plug with a housing like in this picture. I guess the point of the picture is to highlight the differences in the prongs but it’s a very bad example of what a U.S. plug looks like. I’m pretty Shure that the little girl in the story lives in the U.S. and the story sounds very credible to me knowing the type of plugs that we have in the U.S. Also, I prefer the simpler plugs that we have in the U.S. and I’m not concerned about the danger. That’s what parenting is for.
    bloggerblogwilliamlondon
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 50 of 52
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,472member
    mattinoz said:
    It is physically impossible to insert a plug in a socket and touch the life metal parts, not even with a penny. Plug and socket are constructed that way.  Both have to follow strict standards. If both are constructed as imposed by those standards, nothing could happen to the girl. 
    That’s not to say Alexa should have such a challenge.  That’s not acceptable behaviour for a smart speaker. But the little girl was never in danger. Not even when she had done what Alex instructed her to do. 
    I literally had a quarter drop down into the gap between the plug and outlet and send sparks shooting out a few years ago. Impossible may be too strong of a word here. 
    Don’t your plugs have half the prongs covered by plastic insulation?

    I haven’t seen a new plug for years that doesn’t have this simple protection. 
    I think exactly zero plugs I own have that, and I have many. 
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 51 of 52
    davidw said:
    crowley said:
    davidw said:
    crowley said:
    mretondo said:
    It is physically impossible to insert a plug in a socket and touch the life metal parts, not even with a penny. Plug and socket are constructed that way.  Both have to follow strict standards. If both are constructed as imposed by those standards, nothing could happen to the girl. 
    That’s not to say Alexa should have such a challenge.  That’s not acceptable behaviour for a smart speaker. But the little girl was never in danger. Not even when she had done what Alex instructed her to do. 
    You can absolutely do this in the US. Our plugs are a terrible design.
    Yes we can do that in the US, but I prefer the convenience of US plugs over European’s overly complex and large plugs
    ???

    European plugs are basically the same as US plugs, just with cylindrical prongs instead of flat ones.  UK plugs are the larger (slightly)  and more complex (with actual safety features!) ones.


    That's not a fair comparison. All the pictures are of plugs made by the same company using a standard size receptacle case for all the various plugs in different countries. 

    In the US, the vast majority of electrical devices only needs a 2 prong polarized plug. They do not require the third ground prong. Only heavy duty appliances like refrigerators, microwaves, air conditioners, garbage disposals, computer cases with exposed metal and internal power supply, shop tools, non double insulated corded power hand tools, etc., requires grounding. Wheres the Apple TV here in the US can get by using a small 2 prong plug, the Apple TV in the UK still requires their standard 3 prong plug.  

    But in the UK, every electrical device requires the third ground prong. without it, one would not be able to insert the plug into the socket as the third prong is needed to release the door blocking the other two prong from reaching the live contacts in the socket. Plus there need to be room for a fuse in the plug. 

    Here's what the cord and plug looks like for an Apple TV in the UK

    https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Gadget-SolutionsTM-Figure-Laptop/dp/B01MR4XEED/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=uk+plug+for+apple+tv&qid=1640963711&sr=8-4

    Here's the cord and plug for an Apple TV in the US

    https://www.amazon.com/Listed-Prong-Power-Compatible-Generation/dp/B07G23GVYN/ref=sr_1_12_sspa?crid=CBIF75XMJAYK&keywords=uk+plug+for+apple+tv&qid=1640953401&sprefix=uk+plug+for+apple+tv,aps,305&sr=8-12-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExS1c1MUlaT1o0MjFOJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDc2OTY5WUVMWTRCODhIRFdPJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA5MDEyNjYyVjlZRDlVQTQ5OVIwJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfbXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

    Here's a US three prong plug. 

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002GRUIM?pd_rd_i=B0002GRUIM&pd_rd_w=abNsi&pf_rd_p=7ea8e9d0-fed1-49e8-a002-f2d3f5cb151d&pd_rd_wg=yEl6j&pf_rd_r=TDGZF9YX9TVXNS320M7X&pd_rd_r=2bda7f99-05bc-4431-a934-c9f43dfedce2

    No way is the UK 3 prong plug only "slightly" larger than the US 3 prong plug. 

    You seem to have missed the point of the picture.  It was to illustrate how similar the US and EU plugs are, in response to a post that said European plugs are large and complex.  

    And I don't know why you're explaining the UK plug to me, I live here, and was taught how to rewire a plug in secondary school (junior high, approximately).  None of what you've said is particularly pertinent, and is better explained in the Tom Scott video already posted.
    And I pointed out to you that the picture you have of a US plug is not even close to that of most US 2 or 3 prong plugs. The pictures you posted of the various plugs from different counties are made by the same company using their own standard receptacle case, that they use for all the various plugs they make. So it's no wonder that they all look similar and about the same size in your photos. You did not make a fair comparison or show any proof that the UK plug is just "slightly larger" than a US plug, as you stated. 

    Anyone seeing the common US 2 and 3 prong plugs in the links i posted, could see that the US plugs are not at all "similar" or only "slightly" smaller in size, to the UK plug.  And the reason we all agree on, is because the UK plug is more "complex", as explained in the Scott video and no one is disputing this. Plus the UK plug is built to handle 240V. While the US plug only need to handle 120V. The UK plug in your picture can not be made any smaller. While the  2 prong US plug pictured can be made less than half the size shown. (Or less than 2/3 the size shown if for a US 3 prong plug.)  

    Here's a link to a photo of a US hair dryer with the required (since the 90's) GFIC plug. The 2 prong GFIC plug is about the size of a UK plug and more complex (internally) and safer, without needing any special socket. Any such requirement in the UK? If so, the GFCI (RCD) plug probably wouldn't be much larger than the US version. "Wall Wart" power supplies in the UK are not much larger than similar ones in the US. 

    https://www.amazon.com/Ionic-Professional-Ceramic-Tourmaline-Technology/dp/B08ZSFQK7G

    BYW- a 240v US plug is about the same size as a UK plug. The US 240V plug and socket do not have all the safety features of the UK plug and socket. But then again, in the US, 240V outlets are not found in the bedroom, bathroom, den or living room. The 240v outlets are only use for large stationary appliances like the stove and electric clothes dryer. Which do not get unplugged after each use. We here do not plug our TV, computer, lights, stereo, toaster, hair dryer, etc., into a 240v outlet. Even though 120v can kill someone just as instantly as 240v. Working and dealing with 240v is much more dangerous than working and dealing with 120v.   



     
    I agree with Davidw. I live in the U.S. and I have never in my life seen a plug with a housing like in this picture. I guess the point of the picture is to highlight the differences in the prongs but it’s a very bad example of what a U.S. plug looks like. I’m pretty Shure that the little girl in the story lives in the U.S. and the story sounds very credible to me knowing the type of plugs that we have in the U.S. Also, I prefer the simpler plugs that we have in the U.S. and I’m not concerned about the danger. That’s what parenting is for.
    I appreciate this is old and a bit stale in relevance, but....

    You guys really focused on the housing here, when the point was about the prongs and design complexity.  Here's an alternate image, using iPod chargers:



    Different housing from the original image, but clearly the design of the Europlug is close to identical to the US because the prongs have the exact same layout and only differ in shape.  

    Maybe this image would be even clearer, of an integrated cable...



    So the original opinion, which is that Europeans have overly large and complex plugs, and that the US ones are more convenient seems very shaky since the plugs are almost exactly the same.  That was the entire point.  Ultimately I think have a preference for a type of electrical outlet is a bit of a silly thing whichever way you land.  Unless one is actually unsafe, they all get the job done.

    There is also the Schuko plug, which is used in Europe, and is admittedly a bit bigger, but is suitable for higher power draw.  That's more comparable to the US type B plug, and again, they're not all that different in size, though the prongs are definitely different.

    Schuko

    US Type B



    The UK plug is a different matter entirely, and I could fully understand someone finding it overly large, even if there are decent reasons for the size.

     
    edited October 2023
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
Sign In or Register to comment.