Microsoft acquiring Activision Blizzard in $68.7B gaming deal

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  • Reply 61 of 76
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,753member
    danox said:
    techconc said:
    This is the type of acquisition that Apple really needs to make.  Apple just doesn't get the gaming market or simply has no interest in it.  Small indie games in Apple Arcade are fine, but Apple's platforms need A list games.  Apple has great hardware with the M1 Max but a poor gaming selection.  Ironically, Mac sales are at record levels now, but gaming on the Mac is worse than any time in history.  Sad.  
    The M1 Max is not "great hardware" for gaming because the GPU only performs between the level of an Nvidia 3060 and 3080, which are available in x86 machines that cost under $1000. Yes Mac sales are at record levels ... but at a market share (depending upon whether you believe Gartner, IDC, Canalys) that 7.5% to 8.6%, making it third in share behind Windows and ChromeOS. 

    The only path into AAA gaming for Apple is to emulate Microsoft and create their own gaming console. The problem: the AAA console gaming market is in turmoil right now, which is precisely what Microsoft is taking advantage of by snapping up beleagured studios left and right. And - as I mentioned above - currently if you combine the efforts of Microsoft, Nvidia, Google and Amazon and you have 42-45 million cloud gaming subscriptions. It would take Apple 3 years at minimum to launch a console gaming platform; who knows how many cloud gaming subscribers there will be in that time. 
    Apple is by far the most profitable PC maker, marketshare means nothing, if games are made for any Apple device that is actually, better and has great game play, they the players will come, however the current direction of market (crappy games all around as the norm) there is no payday for Apple.
    You're entirely wrong, sorry. Profitability of Apple itself is irrelevant in this context, marketshare is what's important to companies looking to make Mac games. If application/game makers can't make a profit because the market is too small, they won't bother with it no matter if Apple makes $1 per Mac sold or $5000.

    "Crappy games all around" certainly isn't the norm on desktop/console, albeit the case for mobile; 95% of the games in the wider App Store are trash IMO, and probably 75% (and growing) in Apple Arcade are pretty crappy.  Most games are clones of each other, there's not much individuality, and way too many Apple Arcade games are identical to the free App Store versions with the IAPs removed - leaving a difficulty curve that's impossible because it's designed to force you to buy credits or whatever, and you can't.  The majority of desktop/console AAA games are excellent, however.
    edited January 2022 dewmeaderutterBeats
  • Reply 62 of 76
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,753member
    maximara said:
    elijahg said:
    viclauyyc said:
    techconc said:
    This is the type of acquisition that Apple really needs to make.  Apple just doesn't get the gaming market or simply has no interest in it.  Small indie games in Apple Arcade are fine, but Apple's platforms need A list games.  Apple has great hardware with the M1 Max but a poor gaming selection.  Ironically, Mac sales are at record levels now, but gaming on the Mac is worse than any time in history.  Sad.  
    Even Apple buy half of AAA list games on the market, I don’t expect to see people will rush to buy a Mac just to play these games. Hardcore gamer has a long history of dislike/hate Mac/Apple. They might just not to play these games anymore if it is a Mac only.
    That was the same consensus before the iPhone and iPod though. The majority of people didn't like Apple for no real reason than seeing them as overpriced. That slowly changed when the iPod became popular, because it was fairly cheap and worked well. If Apple had a decent machine that wasn't as overpriced as the Mac Pro is, and showed gamers that they can too join in making decent hardware that wasn't extortionate (as they did with iPod and iPhone) enough gamers would eventually change their minds. Apple's only got themselves to blame for the ire of gamers - plus the hardcore gamers are a fairly small faction (think the types who go to gamer cons) compared to those gamers who are more casual but still like AAA games, and those IMO would be more open to Apple. 

    I have friends who have switched back from Mac to PC because they wanted to game, and Apple just didn't have a decent offering without paying through the nose. Their refusal to use Nvidia GPUs (attributable to a childish spat years ago) means we are/were stuck with slow and hot AMD GPUs. The Pro Vega 48 in my iMac is crap compared to the 2080Ti, which came out at the same time and for the same cost - the Pro Vega 48 gets 11500 benchmark, the gets 18600. Again Mac users get jilted because of Apple's stubbornness.
    The M1 changed things.  The fact that Nvidia wanted to get their hands on ARM showed just how much a game changer the M! was.  If all Nvidia wanted was the instruction set they could have paid a royalty like Apple does>. Another option would have been to go with the totally open source RISC-V.  It didn't help Nvidia's efforts ticked off not only the FTC but the UK's Competition and Markets Authority and the EU as well. 

    Nvidia didn't want ARM for the graphics, since ARM doesn't make graphics cores. Apple's graphics cores are ultimately from/based around Imagination Technologies in the UK. I'd imagine they were on the road to making their own phone (maybe own OS?) and wanted full control like Apple has - a license to modify the ARM cores and instruction set, a license that is now unavailable.
  • Reply 63 of 76
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,753member
    badmonk said:

    Apple bids it’s time and waits till things are ripe.  

    Apple does not make big moves by acquisition.  

    People have short memories, can’t see the big picture and have trouble reading the tealeaves.
    Problem is IMO Apple has left it too late. The market has surpassed them whilst they've been dilly dallying and pussyfooting around a commitment to games. Much like AppleTV+, they are way too late to the game, bring nothing new to the table, and now they're a distant last place, having to give away their service and still not getting many viewers.

    As I said before, this is Cook's fault for making Apple so lethargic. In the past they could zip in front of the market with an amazing product and wow everyone, but now by the time they release something everyone else has done it first. So the only option is to do as others do, and buy in the decent products, but Apple has always been averse to that so they won't without some much needed clear out of their ageing VPs.
    edited January 2022 Beats
  • Reply 64 of 76
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,557member
    I don't perceive Microsoft or this purchase as being bad for Apple. Blizzard has stated recently that they are moving in the direction of "mobile". Microsoft will likely maintain that direction. Mobile means both Android and iOS.

    One area of concern is that Microsoft Game Pass is available on Windows but not on MacOS. Most of Blizzard's products are available on MacOS. So unless Microsoft makes Game Pass available for MacOS, this could (possibly) be bad news for users of Blizzard's games on MacOS. But this acquisition could be the impetus for Microsoft to provide Game Pass for MacOS. Or Microsoft could continue to provide Battle.Net for MacOS users.

    An area of interest to me is whether Microsoft considers Apple TV to be a console that it will or will not support. If a product runs on iOS, it's pretty easy to get that product to run on tvOS. I suspect that Microsoft will allow some of its products to be ported to Apple TV. And if so, then it might support Call of Duty on other consoles also. But that doesn't mean it will introduce any new products for competing consoles. But I don't know if Microsoft considers Apple TV to be a serious threat to Xbox.
  • Reply 65 of 76
    The M1 Max is not "great hardware" for gaming because the GPU only performs between the level of an Nvidia 3060 and 3080, which are available in x86 machines that cost under $1000. Yes Mac sales are at record levels ... but at a market share (depending upon whether you believe Gartner, IDC, Canalys) that 7.5% to 8.6%, making it third in share behind Windows and ChromeOS. 
    It's not required to have the absolute highest performance to be classified as "great hardware".  By all objective measures the M1 Max is "great hardware".  It's very high performance and runs relatively cool.  It's a great solution and would make a great gaming platform.  For that matter, we're going to see dual and even quad M1 Max configurations by the end of this year.   As for market share, my comment wasn't relative to the market.  Rather, relative to the Mac's history, sales are at the highest volumes ever, yet gaming on the Mac is the worse it has ever been.
    The only path into AAA gaming for Apple is to emulate Microsoft and create their own gaming console. The problem: the AAA console gaming market is in turmoil right now, which is precisely what Microsoft is taking advantage of by snapping up beleagured studios left and right. And - as I mentioned above - currently if you combine the efforts of Microsoft, Nvidia, Google and Amazon and you have 42-45 million cloud gaming subscriptions. It would take Apple 3 years at minimum to launch a console gaming platform; who knows how many cloud gaming subscribers there will be in that time. 
    Apple already has a console.  AppleTV.  Sure, Apple doesn't get it and it's clear a missed opportunity.  They also have Apple Arcade.  They could very well target a new level of performance (like M1 Max) and have games target that hardware as a gaming platform across multiple devices (iMacs, MacBooks, high end Apple TV, etc.).  To your point, Apple should be purchasing some of these game studios and start developing true A list games for their platform.  Exclusive titles get your platform noticed.

     
    tomahawk said:

    Apple doesn't need its own console.  Nintendo showed some time ago you don't have to have the best hardware or graphics to be successful.  Apple needs to figure out a way to bring some truly great games to the AppleTV and push that capability.  They also would need to market the platform as having that capability.  At this point Apple Arcade is an interesting concept, but I'd say their execution is lacking.  Do the same thing they're trying to do with AppleTV+, go get some content!

    This should have been Apple.  They need to push having a few top games available on iOS, macOS and AppleTV.  They need to push low-cost controller availability, etc.  Make the AppleTV the family gaming platform, one that a lot of people already have in their home. Go for the market the Wii filled, and promote all of your subscriptions at the same time.
    Exactly!
  • Reply 66 of 76
    mcdave said:
    techconc said:
    This is the type of acquisition that Apple really needs to make.  Apple just doesn't get the gaming market or simply has no interest in it.  Small indie games in Apple Arcade are fine, but Apple's platforms need A list games.  Apple has great hardware with the M1 Max but a poor gaming selection.  Ironically, Mac sales are at record levels now, but gaming on the Mac is worse than any time in history.  Sad.  
    Apple needs a broader strategy than this and while such a move could showcase the M1 Max, it will never be a mass gaming device and they risk alienating other developers.
    Apple doesn't need to conquer the world and take over gaming for all platforms.  What Apple does need to do is to make a compelling gaming experience for their existing platforms.  Further, when has Apple ever worried about "alienating developers"?  Does Microsoft worry about alienating developers with all of their products for Xbox?  No, of course not.  That's a ridiculous argument.

    Gaming & 3D are critical to current & future (AR)  Apple platforms but they need to invest in power-efficient 3D graphics beyond TBDR & brute force compute. iPhones, iPads, Macs & ATVs need a new generation of graphics cores & graphics-heavy SoCs which in turn will drive developer interest (ARM should already be on their roadmaps).
    A first step would be providing easy multi-platform application targeting for Apple’s own  platforms followed by transition kits for x86/DirectX bound software (like the SSE/AVX to ASi libraries on GitHub).
    AR / VR will always be a very niche platform.  Yes, it makes for great demos and can even be a nice gaming experience, but it's unlikely that will ever be the mainstream for gaming.  At least not for many, many years.  Japhey said:
    Fair point. But the problem with that model is that Arcade has to be playable on iPhones dating back to the 6s. That severely limits the ability of developers to create AAA level games for it. 
    Yup.  They need to have the casual games available on all devices.  Nothing wrong with that.  However, they also need to set the bar higher for first party A list games.  Something like an M1 Max at the minimum.  They also need to offer an M1 Max based Apple TV or similar console for a device that doesn't cost thousands of dollars.  Nothing Apple does is cheap, but they do need a higher end target hardware platform for their more serious games. 

    Beats said:
    Microsoft gets it. Apple doesn’t.
    Sad, but true.

    elijahg said:
    If Apple was taking Apple Arcade as seriously as they are AppleTV+, they'd have bought Activision Blizzard. Blizzard have been brilliant to the Mac platform going back 25+ years. They are one of (possibly the only) game studios that always keeps updates concurrent with their PC counterparts, always releases games on Mac and Windows concurrently, uses and supports the latest Apple tech, and even kept updating Starcraft 1 (from 1998!) so that it works on the latest macOS. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the end of such great Mac support, which would be a huge loss to the Mac platform (unfortunately and yet another thing that makes Mac users second-class citizens). 

    Gaming is massive, streaming was worth $245bn in 2018, gaming was roughly $150bn. Gaming is 70% of the revenue of the App Store. Apple needs to get some young blood in the upper management that understands this, as none of the ageing VPs gets it at all - and they're missing out big time.
    Exactly!
    elijahgBeats
  • Reply 67 of 76
    viclauyyc said:
    Even Apple buy half of AAA list games on the market, I don’t expect to see people will rush to buy a Mac just to play these games. Hardcore gamer has a long history of dislike/hate Mac/Apple. They might just not to play these games anymore if it is a Mac only.
    They may not rush out to buy a Mac just to play games, but many people won't buy a Mac specifically because it's a lousy gaming platform. Some skip Apple platforms entirely.  Some buy a low end Mac and augment with a gaming console.  Either way, Apple is not servicing an entire segment of the market.  Moreover, their overall platform is less attractive for not offering competitive gaming solutions.

    elijahg said:
    Apple already has its own console, and it's in at least a few people's homes already - the AppleTV. For casual games it's fine, they could have a "pro" with a beefed up GPU which would be more on the level of a PS5/Xbox.

    I fear they've entirely missed the boat on this as a concept though. They watched the mobile (phone) gaming market get invented under their feet but have ignored it until recently with AA, and even then just dipped their little toe in. Apple needs to get back to it's old nimble self, to "skate where the puck is going", rather than this lethargic behemoth Cook has created. When it jumps in with both feet, it redefines a market - but they'd need to buy up a big studio to do that now they've left it so late.
    Exactly!

    danox said:
    Apple has never had a interest in computer games of any type over the years….
    Agreed.  I'm not suggesting otherwise.  This is clearly a blindspot for Apple.  The difference is, in the past, we had various gaming porting companies like Aspyr, Macsoft, etc, etc.  They picked up the slack and brought many, many titles to the Mac platform.  Where are they now?  Apple is selling way more Macs than ever and the game porting business is basically gone.  danox said:
    Dumb American thinks everyone is for sale certain companies in Germany, Japan, China, and Korea will never be up for sale to Americans for any price…..
    Everyone has a price.  Anyone who thinks otherwise is dumb. 

    Ask yourself this question: if AAA style games are such a good fit for Apple's devices, why haven't 3rd parties been porting AAA games like crazy to iOS/iPadOS?
    The obvious answer is that not every console/gamepad game translates well to a touch based device, especially with a small screen like a phone. 

    Smart move.  Right now, everything software, services, & entertainment related is under Eddy Cue.  If Apple is serious about all areas of entertainment, be it music, movies tv, gaming, it might be a good idea to branch out entertainment into its own division and have one person laser focused on that.  Call that division Apple Entertainment or Apple Studios.
    Exactly!
    elijahg
  • Reply 68 of 76
    elijahg said:
    Nvidia didn't want ARM for the graphics, since ARM doesn't make graphics cores. Apple's graphics cores are ultimately from/based around Imagination Technologies in the UK. I'd imagine they were on the road to making their own phone (maybe own OS?) and wanted full control like Apple has - a license to modify the ARM cores and instruction set, a license that is now unavailable.
    ARM does have their own Mali family of GPUs.  Apple's GPUs do leverage IP from Imagination Technologies such as tile based deferred rendering, but their GPU designs are all their own at this point.  

    22july2013 said:
    I don't perceive Microsoft or this purchase as being bad for Apple. Blizzard has stated recently that they are moving in the direction of "mobile". Microsoft will likely maintain that direction. Mobile means both Android and iOS.
    In what form?  Native apps or streaming from Microsoft Game Pass?

    One area of concern is that Microsoft Game Pass is available on Windows but not on MacOS. Most of Blizzard's products are available on MacOS. So unless Microsoft makes Game Pass available for MacOS, this could (possibly) be bad news for users of Blizzard's games on MacOS. But this acquisition could be the impetus for Microsoft to provide Game Pass for MacOS. Or Microsoft could continue to provide Battle.Net for MacOS users.
    I'm not sure Mac users want a Microsoft gaming subscription.  Buying games is one thing.  Subscribing is another.  As for Battle.net, I'm sure that will be maintained "as is" for a reasonable amount of time. 

    An area of interest to me is whether Microsoft considers Apple TV to be a console that it will or will not support. If a product runs on iOS, it's pretty easy to get that product to run on tvOS. I suspect that Microsoft will allow some of its products to be ported to Apple TV. And if so, then it might support Call of Duty on other consoles also. But that doesn't mean it will introduce any new products for competing consoles. But I don't know if Microsoft considers Apple TV to be a serious threat to Xbox.
    The existing AppleTV isn't a threat to any gaming console really.  Apple needs a dedicated gaming version of the AppleTV with much beefier specs.  I think Apple needs to split the AppleTV platform up.  Have a simple streamer that just connects to an HDMI port like a dongle as Amazon and others do for the low end.  Then, have a beefier and much more capable puck like product... maybe more like a Mac min with a fan for a more serious M1 Max based product for the same streaming + gaming. 
  • Reply 69 of 76
    techconc said: Apple needs a dedicated gaming version of the AppleTV with much beefier specs.
    No, they don't. Apple has chosen to go in the direction of non-fragmentation, where the same games will work across all of their hardware. For Apple, that makes perfect sense. It doesn't necessarily make sense for companies like Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft, which is why they tend to focus on people buying games for an isolated piece of hardware. 
  • Reply 70 of 76
    thttht Posts: 5,355member
    techconc said:
    The M1 Max is not "great hardware" for gaming because the GPU only performs between the level of an Nvidia 3060 and 3080, which are available in x86 machines that cost under $1000. Yes Mac sales are at record levels ... but at a market share (depending upon whether you believe Gartner, IDC, Canalys) that 7.5% to 8.6%, making it third in share behind Windows and ChromeOS. 
    It's not required to have the absolute highest performance to be classified as "great hardware".  By all objective measures the M1 Max is "great hardware".  It's very high performance and runs relatively cool.  It's a great solution and would make a great gaming platform.  For that matter, we're going to see dual and even quad M1 Max configurations by the end of this year.   As for market share, my comment wasn't relative to the market.  Rather, relative to the Mac's history, sales are at the highest volumes ever, yet gaming on the Mac is the worse it has ever been.
    As a reminder the M1 Max performs better in CPU and about the same in GPU as the Xbox Series X and PS5, the current generation consoles. They have the hardware for a competent console. Put an M1 Max into a Mac mini box, and basically call it a day. Hardware really isn't the problem.

    Like everyone has been saying, Apple's doesn't think of games as a strategic asset for Macs and macOS, and have at best only put perfunctory effort into it, if you could even call it that. Arcade is like a minimal effort for iOS, where there already a lot of games, and macOS gets the droppings from it, if that. They will have close to 100m Apple Silicon Macs in customer hands in another couple of years. That's a nice base of customers with a significant fraction that would love to play games on their Macs. 

    I don't think games are going to come just because this installed base is there. Apple has to become a game publisher and developer, in a much more dedicated fashion than Arcade. They really need to develop games for Macs and publish games for Macs. There is a large enough user base for it. Everything else: consoles, AAA platform games, will come if they are successful in getting Mac users to pay for games on Macs. Which I think they can be. Games designed for M1 machines as the minimum, will be enough. But Apple really has do it.
    elijahgtechconc
  • Reply 71 of 76
    danox said:
    YP101 said:
    Well, Apple just buy Nintendo will solve the problem. Nintendo gets M1 CPU will resolve the current hardware limitation.
    Apple will receive all retro games on Apple TV.
    We went through this 5 years ago when people thought that NIntendo was dead (couldn't keep up with Microsoft and Sony in specs, their "family-friendly" focus meant losing out to the iPad etc.) so people claimed that Apple should buy Nintendo in order to bring the Mario, Zelda etc. games to the iPad and iPhone. Nintendo said: "We are not for sale and never will be" followed by "even if we are sold it will never be to a foreign company." 

    As for Sony, yeah as if the antitrust regulators would allow that. It would give Apple:
    A. a smartphone and tablet manufacturer (Android)
    B. a TV (again Android), DVD and premium audio manufacturer 
    C. the world's #1 gaming console platform
    D. the Columbia movie studio (Spider-Man, Ghostbusters, Jumanji, Bad Boys, Karate Kid, Men In Black and a bunch of other franchises, and that doesn't even include Sony Japan's extensive film, TV, music etc. properties)

    So the Japanese government is going to let the company that killed off the Walkman (and indirectly the Blu-Ray by creating the streaming era) and mobile gaming (seriously degrading Sony, Nintendo, Sega etc. in the process while creating a boom for competing Chinese and South Korean tech companies like Tencent, Xiaomi, LG and Samsung) buy Sony? Yeah, totally not going to happen. 

    Dumb American thinks everyone is for sale certain companies in Germany, Japan, China, and Korea will never be up for sale to Americans for any price…..
    Nokia would like a word…

    if they sold, other countries will too. 

    Business is business. 

    And please leave the name calling out of this forum. 
    edited January 2022
  • Reply 72 of 76
    Ask yourself this question: if AAA style games are such a good fit for Apple's devices, why haven't 3rd parties been porting AAA games like crazy to iOS/iPadOS?
    No console. 

    Add the fact that Macs have been notoriously difficult to develop for due to no help from Apple, and history is what it is. Though early on, Apple had tons of the top games on its platform. 

    However, there is now a superior API in Metal but many long-standing developers haven’t learned it. 

    So there is a new thing brewing. 

    Apple also does not have a true games console. 

    When they do, the situation will be quite different snd many games will come to Mac as many barriers will be broken. Cross development will then be cake. 

    But Apple will have to court these developers at first snd help them get over the initial programming hurdle
     as it is, these guys know how to mss as make Xbox, and Ps games. But developing for Apple and M series is going to be a new curve. 

    Can be done. Just needs commitment from Apple. 


  • Reply 73 of 76
    Ask yourself this question: if AAA style games are such a good fit for Apple's devices, why haven't 3rd parties been porting AAA games like crazy to iOS/iPadOS?
    No console. 

    Add the fact that Macs have been notoriously difficult to develop for due to no help from Apple, and history is what it is. Though early on, Apple had tons of the top games on its platform.
    That's the point. AAA games don't make sense for Apple's hardware lineup. What does make sense is what Apple has been doing with Apple Arcade: focus on making games playable across their entire hardware lineup. People talk about cloud gaming for AAA, but with small phone and tablet screens it's mostly a novelty. Those games aren't designed for screens that small, so the experience is always going to be compromised.
  • Reply 74 of 76
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,680member
    Ask yourself this question: if AAA style games are such a good fit for Apple's devices, why haven't 3rd parties been porting AAA games like crazy to iOS/iPadOS?
    No console. 

    Add the fact that Macs have been notoriously difficult to develop for due to no help from Apple, and history is what it is. Though early on, Apple had tons of the top games on its platform.
    That's the point. AAA games don't make sense for Apple's hardware lineup. What does make sense is what Apple has been doing with Apple Arcade: focus on making games playable across their entire hardware lineup. People talk about cloud gaming for AAA, but with small phone and tablet screens it's mostly a novelty. Those games aren't designed for screens that small, so the experience is always going to be compromised.
    I agree with this but if Apple is serious about gaming it really needs to invest in first party exclusives similar to what they're doing for ATV+.  Down the road they may even sign agreements with TV makers and have Apple Arcade preinstalled on new TV's.
  • Reply 75 of 76
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    tomahawk said:
    techconc said:
    This is the type of acquisition that Apple really needs to make.  Apple just doesn't get the gaming market or simply has no interest in it.  Small indie games in Apple Arcade are fine, but Apple's platforms need A list games.  Apple has great hardware with the M1 Max but a poor gaming selection.  Ironically, Mac sales are at record levels now, but gaming on the Mac is worse than any time in history.  Sad.  
    The M1 Max is not "great hardware" for gaming because the GPU only performs between the level of an Nvidia 3060 and 3080, which are available in x86 machines that cost under $1000. Yes Mac sales are at record levels ... but at a market share (depending upon whether you believe Gartner, IDC, Canalys) that 7.5% to 8.6%, making it third in share behind Windows and ChromeOS. 

    The only path into AAA gaming for Apple is to emulate Microsoft and create their own gaming console. The problem: the AAA console gaming market is in turmoil right now, which is precisely what Microsoft is taking advantage of by snapping up beleagured studios left and right. And - as I mentioned above - currently if you combine the efforts of Microsoft, Nvidia, Google and Amazon and you have 42-45 million cloud gaming subscriptions. It would take Apple 3 years at minimum to launch a console gaming platform; who knows how many cloud gaming subscribers there will be in that time. 
    Apple doesn't need its own console.  Nintendo showed some time ago you don't have to have the best hardware or graphics to be successful.  Apple needs to figure out a way to bring some truly great games to the AppleTV and push that capability.  They also would need to market the platform as having that capability.  At this point Apple Arcade is an interesting concept, but I'd say their execution is lacking.  Do the same thing they're trying to do with AppleTV+, go get some content!

    This should have been Apple.  They need to push having a few top games available on iOS, macOS and AppleTV.  They need to push low-cost controller availability, etc.  Make the AppleTV the family gaming platform, one that a lot of people already have in their home. Go for the market the Wii filled, and promote all of your subscriptions at the same time.
    You state "Apple doesn't need its own console" and then you cite Nintendo ... which has its own console. The Nintendo Switch is a hybrid of two of the most popular console gaming hardware platforms of all time: the Wii and the DS. Without the massive success of the Wii and the operating system from the 3DS, the Switch wouldn't have had a chance. Nintendo also has what Apple does not have, which is an extensive list of their own gaming IP - Breath of the Wild was a launch title, plus Super Mario Odyssey, Smash Bros Ultimate, Animal Crossing and the venerable Mario Kart were key to its success - and a longrunning relationship with gaming studios. Apple has none of those things. 

    Incidentally, you greatly overstate the number of Apple TV boxes in the wild. Apple TV is behind Roku, Tizen, Fire TV, lgOS and Android TV/Google TV and it isn't close. If it were, you would have more developers for Apple Arcade. The reason why Apple Arcade didn't take off is because it is between a rock and a hard place. Apple wants the combination of iPhone, iPad and Apple TV to push at least PS4-caliber games. (Whether the Apple TV is even capable of 4K games at high refresh rates is debatable. It is likely capable of either 1080p games at high refresh rates or 4K games at low ones.)
    Two problems.
    1. There is no evidence that AAA gamers want PS4-caliber games. They want the latest games running at the most powerful specs, which means 8K with ray tracing etc.
    2. iPad/iPhone gaming is primarily touchscreen. Apple TV requires controllers. The largest audience of gamers - by far - is iPad but the AAA gaming experience requires targeting the device with a very small market share (Apple TV) with the ideal version of the game while still making the iPad and iPhone versions high quality. That is a challenge that AAA developers for no other platform but Nintendo have to worry about, and again Nintendo's partners have been developing games for the DS and Gameboy for decades. 

    And for the reasons that I have stated, no this shouldn't be Apple. Apple doesn't have a platform capable of running Activision Blizzard games. Microsoft has two of them: Windows and PlayStation. And no, buying Activision Blizzard won't cause a stampede of people to run out and buy MacBook Airs or Apple TVs to game on because that is still just one content library from one studio. It would be the equivalent of - for example - Amazon trying to build a streaming service with only the MGM library. 

    There’s so much wrong with this reply I don’t know where to start…

    1. “Nintendo has something Apple doesn’t have and that’s their own IP”

    which is EXACTLY why he believes Apple should buy Nintendo.

    2. “And a long running relationship with game studios. Apple has none of those.”

    See #1.

    3. Comparing Apple TV market share to Android OS and LGOS.

    Ummm Apple TV is a separate box from actual TVs. Of course stock smart TV OSes will have greater market share. What’s your point?

    4. “Apple wants to push PS4 caliber games.”

    Um no. They clearly want the exact opposite. Have you not seen Apple Arcade and the keynotes? They are quick mobile games with low graphically capability on purpose.

    5. “Apple doesn’t have the platform to run Activision Blizzard games”

    Then you completely forget about Mac, which is everything Microsoft copied but made worse. Apple DOES have platforms they just don’t care about pushing them for gaming. Look at Apple Arcade.

    @highframerate ;
    edited January 2022 williamlondon
  • Reply 76 of 76
    techconc said: Apple needs a dedicated gaming version of the AppleTV with much beefier specs.
    No, they don't. Apple has chosen to go in the direction of non-fragmentation, where the same games will work across all of their hardware. For Apple, that makes perfect sense. It doesn't necessarily make sense for companies like Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft, which is why they tend to focus on people buying games for an isolated piece of hardware. 
    How's that strategy working out for them?  There is a reason anyone who cares about games avoids Apple's platforms.  Candy crush may bring in a lot of revenue for them, but it does nothing to satisfy the needs of gamers.  For that matter, even if you want to take the position of not having a fragmented market, you still need to raise the bar to something like an M1 at least in order to get more compelling titles on the platform.

     tht said:
    As a reminder the M1 Max performs better in CPU and about the same in GPU as the Xbox Series X and PS5, the current generation consoles. They have the hardware for a competent console. Put an M1 Max into a Mac mini box, and basically call it a day. Hardware really isn't the problem.

    Like everyone has been saying, Apple's doesn't think of games as a strategic asset for Macs and macOS, and have at best only put perfunctory effort into it, if you could even call it that. Arcade is like a minimal effort for iOS, where there already a lot of games, and macOS gets the droppings from it, if that. They will have close to 100m Apple Silicon Macs in customer hands in another couple of years. That's a nice base of customers with a significant fraction that would love to play games on their Macs. 

    I don't think games are going to come just because this installed base is there. Apple has to become a game publisher and developer, in a much more dedicated fashion than Arcade. They really need to develop games for Macs and publish games for Macs. There is a large enough user base for it. Everything else: consoles, AAA platform games, will come if they are successful in getting Mac users to pay for games on Macs. Which I think they can be. Games designed for M1 machines as the minimum, will be enough. But Apple really has do it.
    100% agree.  Well said.


    williamlondon
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