How we ended up with the 'Pregnant Man' Emoji

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 129
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,560member
    unless it's a special case, all emoji should be gender-neutral by default
    You mean like the yellow smiley face they started with? I went through your explanation of why and came away convinced of one thing. They are putting WAY too much time and effort into this. They have taken a cute system of putting some emotional context in a text message and kept adding until it's a bloated monstrosity. The vast majorety of emoji's are almost never used. What's more it has become a block to successful communication rather than a help. Somebody sends me a string of Emoji and I just trash the message. I have better things to do than to try to decipher what they're trying to say. You want to tell me something, use words.

    They should never have gone beyond the original non racial, genderless smiley faces and such they started with.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 62 of 129
    darkvader said:
    "Pregnant man" and "pregnant nonbinary person" are actual real-world things that happen.  They exist.  Sure, they're uncommon, but they are absolutely 100% real world people.

    To not intentionally not include them would be incredibly bigoted.

    Trans women are women.  Trans men are men.  Right wing nutjobs are easily offended snowflakes.
    Can trans man become pregnant? 
    elijahg
  • Reply 63 of 129
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,319member
    red oak said:
    What a bizarre, meandering diatribe against common sense.  Apple pro-actively included it

    I can't even understand the point your trying to make here 
    You apparently failed to comprehend the sections about the ESC, how new emojis are ratified, and that they aren’t devised by the implementing OS.
    edited January 2022
  • Reply 64 of 129
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,319member
    entropys said:
    A long discussion on why a political act is not in fact, a political act.  

    It’s only political in your mind. Rage! Roar! Let the world have it, son!
    sconosciuto
  • Reply 65 of 129
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,319member
    DAalseth said:
    unless it's a special case, all emoji should be gender-neutral by default
    You mean like the yellow smiley face they started with? I went through your explanation of why and came away convinced of one thing. They are putting WAY too much time and effort into this. They have taken a cute system of putting some emotional context in a text message and kept adding until it's a bloated monstrosity. The vast majorety of emoji's are almost never used. What's more it has become a block to successful communication rather than a help. Somebody sends me a string of Emoji and I just trash the message. I have better things to do than to try to decipher what they're trying to say. You want to tell me something, use words.

    They should never have gone beyond the original non racial, genderless smiley faces and such they started with.
    Emoji are just like streaming services — nobody expects you to personally use each one. But each one has a use to someone. 

    What is so difficult for you people to grasp, here? You aren’t expected to use every glyph. 
    sconosciuto
  • Reply 66 of 129
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,319member
    darkvader said:
    "Pregnant man" and "pregnant nonbinary person" are actual real-world things that happen.  They exist.  Sure, they're uncommon, but they are absolutely 100% real world people.

    To not intentionally not include them would be incredibly bigoted.

    Trans women are women.  Trans men are men.  Right wing nutjobs are easily offended snowflakes.
    Can trans man become pregnant? 
    Absolutely.
    darkvader
  • Reply 67 of 129
    darkvader said:
    "Pregnant man" and "pregnant nonbinary person" are actual real-world things that happen.  They exist.  Sure, they're uncommon, but they are absolutely 100% real world people.

    To not intentionally not include them would be incredibly bigoted.

    Trans women are women.  Trans men are men.  Right wing nutjobs are easily offended snowflakes.
    Can trans man become pregnant? 
    Absolutely.
    Not just in principle. Any successful case? 
    elijahg
  • Reply 68 of 129
    bluefire1bluefire1 Posts: 1,243member
    It’s one Emoji among thousands. Who gives a crap what it looks like.
    edited January 2022
  • Reply 69 of 129
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    darkvader said:
    "Pregnant man" and "pregnant nonbinary person" are actual real-world things that happen.  They exist.  Sure, they're uncommon, but they are absolutely 100% real world people.

    To not intentionally not include them would be incredibly bigoted.

    Trans women are women.  Trans men are men.  Right wing nutjobs are easily offended snowflakes.
    Can trans man become pregnant? 
    Absolutely.
    Not just in principle. Any successful case? 
    Yes.
    darkvader
  • Reply 70 of 129
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    darkvader said:
    "Pregnant man" and "pregnant nonbinary person" are actual real-world things that happen.  They exist.  Sure, they're uncommon, but they are absolutely 100% real world people.

    To not intentionally not include them would be incredibly bigoted.

    Trans women are women.  Trans men are men.  Right wing nutjobs are easily offended snowflakes.
    Can trans man become pregnant? 
    Absolutely.
    Not just in principle. Any successful case? 

    You are conflating gender with sexual characteristics.
    And, saying a 'trans man' typically would mean a female who transitioned to living as a male.   So yeh, unless the person had sex reassignment surgery or the hormonal therapy disrupted her cycles, then he could become pregnant.

    But all of that, I think is separate from this emoji question which suggests a biologic male becoming pregnant -- which is ridiculous.
    elijahg
  • Reply 71 of 129
    darkvader said:
    "Pregnant man" and "pregnant nonbinary person" are actual real-world things that happen.  They exist.  Sure, they're uncommon, but they are absolutely 100% real world people.

    To not intentionally not include them would be incredibly bigoted.

    Trans women are women.  Trans men are men.  Right wing nutjobs are easily offended snowflakes.
    Can trans man become pregnant? 
    Absolutely.
    Not just in principle. Any successful case? 

    You are conflating gender with sexual characteristics.
    And, saying a 'trans man' typically would mean a female who transitioned to living as a male.   So yeh, unless the person had sex reassignment surgery or the hormonal therapy disrupted her cycles, then he could become pregnant.

    But all of that, I think is separate from this emoji question which suggests a biologic male becoming pregnant -- which is ridiculous.
    I'm fine with everything you've said (though I think it's odd that you think that you get to have the last word on what words mean)... up until this assumption. You're so far out on a ledge that Wile E. Coyote is looking at you dubiously.

    There is no reason to assume that the Emoji suggests "a biologic male becoming pregnant". In fact, since it's just a glyph, you get to decide what you think it is... and so does everyone else. Most people will say "it looks like a man, but pregnant". And that's the point. It *looks* like a man, just like a typical trans man. It says nothing about genetics, epigenetics, and antenatal development.

    The name of the glyph gives you no support either. "Man" or "male", you don't get to decide if it's referring to gender or sex.
    darkvader
  • Reply 72 of 129
    darkvader said:
    "Pregnant man" and "pregnant nonbinary person" are actual real-world things that happen.  They exist.  Sure, they're uncommon, but they are absolutely 100% real world people.

    To not intentionally not include them would be incredibly bigoted.

    Trans women are women.  Trans men are men.  Right wing nutjobs are easily offended snowflakes.
    Can trans man become pregnant? 
    Absolutely.
    Not just in principle. Any successful case? 

    You are conflating gender with sexual characteristics.
    And, saying a 'trans man' typically would mean a female who transitioned to living as a male.   So yeh, unless the person had sex reassignment surgery or the hormonal therapy disrupted her cycles, then he could become pregnant.

    But all of that, I think is separate from this emoji question which suggests a biologic male becoming pregnant -- which is ridiculous.
    I'm fine with everything you've said (though I think it's odd that you think that you get to have the last word on what words mean)... up until this assumption. You're so far out on a ledge that Wile E. Coyote is looking at you dubiously.

    There is no reason to assume that the Emoji suggests "a biologic male becoming pregnant". In fact, since it's just a glyph, you get to decide what you think it is... and so does everyone else. Most people will say "it looks like a man, but pregnant". And that's the point. It *looks* like a man, just like a typical trans man. It says nothing about genetics, epigenetics, and antenatal development.

    The name of the glyph gives you no support either. "Man" or "male", you don't get to decide if it's referring to gender or sex.
    Yes. That is very well stated. Thank You.
    darkvader
  • Reply 73 of 129
    darkvader said:
    "Pregnant man" and "pregnant nonbinary person" are actual real-world things that happen.  They exist.  Sure, they're uncommon, but they are absolutely 100% real world people.

    To not intentionally not include them would be incredibly bigoted.

    Trans women are women.  Trans men are men.  Right wing nutjobs are easily offended snowflakes.
    Can trans man become pregnant? 
    Absolutely.
    Not just in principle. Any successful case? 

    You are conflating gender with sexual characteristics.
    And, saying a 'trans man' typically would mean a female who transitioned to living as a male.   So yeh, unless the person had sex reassignment surgery or the hormonal therapy disrupted her cycles, then he could become pregnant.

    But all of that, I think is separate from this emoji question which suggests a biologic male becoming pregnant -- which is ridiculous.
    Well, my question should be 'can trans woman become pregnant?'. Isn' pregnant one of the words in the hotly discussed emoji? 
  • Reply 74 of 129
    darkvader said:
    "Pregnant man" and "pregnant nonbinary person" are actual real-world things that happen.  They exist.  Sure, they're uncommon, but they are absolutely 100% real world people.

    To not intentionally not include them would be incredibly bigoted.

    Trans women are women.  Trans men are men.  Right wing nutjobs are easily offended snowflakes.
    Can trans man become pregnant? 
    Absolutely.
    Not just in principle. Any successful case? 

    You are conflating gender with sexual characteristics.
    And, saying a 'trans man' typically would mean a female who transitioned to living as a male.   So yeh, unless the person had sex reassignment surgery or the hormonal therapy disrupted her cycles, then he could become pregnant.

    But all of that, I think is separate from this emoji question which suggests a biologic male becoming pregnant -- which is ridiculous.
    Well, my question should be 'can trans woman become pregnant?'. Isn' pregnant one of the words in the hotly discussed emoji? 
    I think you've finally asked the question you expect to hear a "no" to. And indeed, to the best of my knowledge, it's not yet medically possible for a trans woman to become pregnant. Don't assume that that's going to be true forever though (I wrote about that earlier).

    However... how is that even relevant to the emoji everyone's discussing? A trans woman *looks like* a woman. The emoji is of someone who *looks like a man*. So, that would be a trans man, and some such people do indeed get pregnant.

    ...and again, why is reality relevant to emoji, which are replete with fantastical things like unicorns?
    darkvader
  • Reply 75 of 129
    Japhey said:
    Beer Belly Man?

    Pregnant Man looks like my uncle. He’s not with child, of course, he simply enjoys his Stout and rubs his beer belly with pride. 
    Just like the eggplant emoji, the pregnant man emoji will be used for many different things.

    It's interesting that the people wailing and gnashing their teeth against something like this tend to be extraordinarily "binary" (e.g., close-minded) people.  <3
    darkvader
  • Reply 76 of 129
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    darkvader said:
    "Pregnant man" and "pregnant nonbinary person" are actual real-world things that happen.  They exist.  Sure, they're uncommon, but they are absolutely 100% real world people.

    To not intentionally not include them would be incredibly bigoted.

    Trans women are women.  Trans men are men.  Right wing nutjobs are easily offended snowflakes.
    Can trans man become pregnant? 
    Absolutely.
    Not just in principle. Any successful case? 

    You are conflating gender with sexual characteristics.
    And, saying a 'trans man' typically would mean a female who transitioned to living as a male.   So yeh, unless the person had sex reassignment surgery or the hormonal therapy disrupted her cycles, then he could become pregnant.

    But all of that, I think is separate from this emoji question which suggests a biologic male becoming pregnant -- which is ridiculous.
    Well, my question should be 'can trans woman become pregnant?'. Isn' pregnant one of the words in the hotly discussed emoji? 

    If by pregnant you "with child", then no.   A person who transitioned from biologic male to female simply doesn't have the equipment -- at least not with a bunch of transplants.  And, to the best of my knowledge, that's never been done.
    leighrelijahg
  • Reply 77 of 129
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    darkvader said:
    "Pregnant man" and "pregnant nonbinary person" are actual real-world things that happen.  They exist.  Sure, they're uncommon, but they are absolutely 100% real world people.

    To not intentionally not include them would be incredibly bigoted.

    Trans women are women.  Trans men are men.  Right wing nutjobs are easily offended snowflakes.
    Can trans man become pregnant? 
    Absolutely.
    Not just in principle. Any successful case? 

    You are conflating gender with sexual characteristics.
    And, saying a 'trans man' typically would mean a female who transitioned to living as a male.   So yeh, unless the person had sex reassignment surgery or the hormonal therapy disrupted her cycles, then he could become pregnant.

    But all of that, I think is separate from this emoji question which suggests a biologic male becoming pregnant -- which is ridiculous.

    There is no reason to assume that the Emoji suggests "a biologic male becoming pregnant". ...
    I would think there is far less reason to think it is related to transsexualism. 
    Typically, when people see "guy" they think "guy".

    But yeh, put the emoji in the right context, and it could point to trans.  But even then it would be shaky -- even an insult -- because the only way it could happen would be if a biologic female who went through all the steps of transitioning to a male became pregnant -- thus undoing everything he worked for and hoped for.   It would far worse than they typical insult of using the wrong gender when addressing the person.

    edited January 2022 elijahg
  • Reply 78 of 129
    darkvader said:
    "Pregnant man" and "pregnant nonbinary person" are actual real-world things that happen.  They exist.  Sure, they're uncommon, but they are absolutely 100% real world people.

    To not intentionally not include them would be incredibly bigoted.

    Trans women are women.  Trans men are men.  Right wing nutjobs are easily offended snowflakes.
    Can trans man become pregnant? 
    Absolutely.
    Not just in principle. Any successful case? 

    You are conflating gender with sexual characteristics.
    And, saying a 'trans man' typically would mean a female who transitioned to living as a male.   So yeh, unless the person had sex reassignment surgery or the hormonal therapy disrupted her cycles, then he could become pregnant.

    But all of that, I think is separate from this emoji question which suggests a biologic male becoming pregnant -- which is ridiculous.

    There is no reason to assume that the Emoji suggests "a biologic male becoming pregnant". ...
    I would think there is far less reason to think it is related to transsexualism. 
    Typically, when people see "guy" they think "guy".

    But yeh, put the emoji in the right context, and it could point to trans.  But even then it would be shaky -- even an insult -- because the only way it could happen would be if a biologic female who went through all the steps of transitioning to a male became pregnant -- thus undoing everything he worked for and hoped for.   It would far worse than they typical insult of using the wrong gender when addressing the person.
    You are simply mistaken about that. Some trans men have made that choice and have become pregnant, on purpose (use google, it's not hard to find). I think they're better equipped than you to decide what is an insult to them.

    I will admit that this seemed a bit strange to me too. But then I grew up in a culture that was extremely binary. When you absorb on a deeper level what it means to be nonbinary, it makes more sense. I'm sure some trans men feel entirely male, in every sense, and would be upset at the notion of getting pregnant. But there are, obviously, some who are comfortable with an in-between state, that is more male in appearance and behavior in general, but still capable of being pregnant and bearing a child. It seems weird to me, but why should anyone else give a crap about what seems weird to me? (Why, even, should I?) It's a big world and there's room in it for everyone... as long as they don't try to run other peoples' lives.
    darkvader
  • Reply 79 of 129
    JapheyJaphey Posts: 1,456member
    darkvader said:
    "Pregnant man" and "pregnant nonbinary person" are actual real-world things that happen.  They exist.  Sure, they're uncommon, but they are absolutely 100% real world people.

    To not intentionally not include them would be incredibly bigoted.

    Trans women are women.  Trans men are men.  Right wing nutjobs are easily offended snowflakes.
    Can trans man become pregnant? 
    Absolutely.
    Not just in principle. Any successful case? 

    You are conflating gender with sexual characteristics.
    And, saying a 'trans man' typically would mean a female who transitioned to living as a male.   So yeh, unless the person had sex reassignment surgery or the hormonal therapy disrupted her cycles, then he could become pregnant.

    But all of that, I think is separate from this emoji question which suggests a biologic male becoming pregnant -- which is ridiculous.

    There is no reason to assume that the Emoji suggests "a biologic male becoming pregnant". ...
    I would think there is far less reason to think it is related to transsexualism. 
    Typically, when people see "guy" they think "guy".

    But yeh, put the emoji in the right context, and it could point to trans.  But even then it would be shaky -- even an insult -- because the only way it could happen would be if a biologic female who went through all the steps of transitioning to a male became pregnant -- thus undoing everything he worked for and hoped for.   It would far worse than they typical insult of using the wrong gender when addressing the person.

    My God do you ever get tired of hearing yourself talk? Who are you to tell everyone what trans people do or do not find insulting? They are more than capable of explaining that themselves, if they so choose. For a little perspective, I suggest you read this article before posting your typical knee-jerk reactionary response…

    https://thetranscendentaltourist.wordpress.com/2015/06/02/5-things-cis-people-can-actually-do-for-trans-people-now-that-you-care-about-us/comment-page-2/

    Actually read it. 
    edited January 2022 darkvader
  • Reply 80 of 129
    Japhey said:
    My God do you ever get tired of hearing yourself talk? Who are you to tell everyone what trans people do or do not find insulting? They are more than capable of explaining that themselves, if they so choose. For a little perspective, I suggest you read this article before posting your typical knee-jerk reactionary response…

    https://thetranscendentaltourist.wordpress.com/2015/06/02/5-things-cis-people-can-actually-do-for-trans-people-now-that-you-care-about-us/comment-page-2/

    Actually read it. 
    I don't blame you for being irritated. And it's not your job to put up with irritation. But if you actually want to move the needle, be gentler. (Advice that I try to take myself, though I sometimes fail.) He, unlike others, seems to be willing to make some effort. Honey/vinegar, etc.
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