Apple urges lawmakers to reject bill that would force it to allow side-loading

Posted:
in General Discussion
Apple is urging top Senate lawmakers to reject a new piece of antitrust legislation that would force it to allow iOS users to download apps from outside of the App Store.

US Capitol building
US Capitol building


The letter, penned by Apple head of government affairs in the Americas Tim Powderly, was sent to top members of the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee ahead of its scheduled discussion of the bill on Thursday. It echoes many of Apple's previous criticisms of antitrust legislation.

"We are deeply concerned that the legislation, unless amended, would make it easier for big social media platforms to avoid the pro-consumer practices of Apple's App Store, and allow them to continue business as usual," wrote Powderly.

In the letter, Apple said the bill -- the Open Markets Act -- would harm user security and privacy, create legal uncertainty and expansive liability exposure, and deny consumer choice, according to Bloomberg.

"Sideloading would enable bad actors to evade Apple's privacy and security protections by distributing apps without critical privacy and security checks," Powderly wrote. "These provisions would allow malware, scams and data-exploitation to proliferate."

In addition to forcing companies to allow side-loading, the Open Markets Act would also ban companies from requiring app makers to use first-party payment systems and prohibits app marketplace operators from using non-public information to compete with third parties.

The letter was sent to Senate Judiciary Chair Dick Durbin, as well as Sen. Chuck Grassley, the committee's ranking Republican.

The Open Markets Act has bipartisan support, making it likely that it will pass the Senate Judiciary Committee Thursday. It'll face a tougher battle when it goes up for a vote before the full Senate, however.

Back in January, Apple sent a similar letter to legislators on the Judiciary Committee railing against both the Open Markets Act, as well as the American Innovation and Choice Online Act, which would bar companies from preferring its own services over those of rivals.

Read on AppleInsider
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 34
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,095member

    "Sideloading would enable bad actors to evade Apple's privacy and security protections by distributing apps without critical privacy and security checks," Powderly wrote. "These provisions would allow malware, scams and data-exploitation to proliferate."
    Read on AppleInsider
    Everyone knows the security-joke that is Android, and Fandroids will love nothing more than to have Apple forced to allow side loading and bringing in the same security vulnerabilities that are the norm with Android.

    I find it hard to believe that the government would expect force any company to open their 100% proprietary device to other players.  Why folks like Microsoft (Xbox) and Sony (Playstation) aren't joining with Apple on this is beyond me.  When it starts there, then next victims will be them.
    stevenozmjtomlinwilliamlondonlkrupprob53mwhiterezwitsuraharamaximarajahblade
  • Reply 2 of 34
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,572member
    Apple has no legal obligation to allow any third party apps on their platforms. Let alone third party app stores.
    stevenozmjtomlinrob53danoxiOS_Guy80foregoneconclusionwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 34
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,673member
    Agree with both comments above…

    It’s a proprietary closed platform. Its growth and popularity in the mobile market were achieved by consumer choice, not some unfair competitive advantage they abused. As a bit of proof of that, Apple doesn’t even sell products on the low-end of the market, meaning their customers are more willing to pay more money for Apple’s products.

    Wanted to add…

    I do think Apple should offer some kind of tiered developer account whereby a developer could pay more yearly to opt out of the App Store and be able to distribute/sell their own apps from their own site (Apps would still be reviewed by Apple before being signed.). I also think Apple could start lowering their fees, especially for subscription services. Those two things still let Apple stay in control but also squash a lot of these issues.
    edited February 2022 lkruppwatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 34
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Only the malcontents that infest tech blogs like AppleInsider would side-load, and they would deserve whatever they get. This is purely a case of the tail trying to wag the dog, a bunch of losers who want to force Apple to do something it doesn’t want to do when they could easily move to Android and side-load away to their heart's content as well as tweet settings till the cows come home. But no, they insist Apple be forced to be just like Android and hide behind the ‘choice’ false flag.
    rob53danoxuraharamaximarawatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 34
    Apple need to open up their platform, but getting Congress involved is the wrong approach. Apple could see a new renaissance if they open their doors to more content. You would think Tim has people come to his home weekly and repaint his white walls. Tim sits in his white chair to watch the white paint dry while drinking skim milk and reading The History of Bread by John Ashton. The painters cannot speak while they are on site: that would be too interesting. Apple, not Microsoft, should have bought Activision and forged a new venture into gaming. Apple could buy Sony, Disney, or Nintendo. Anything with verve. Everything Apple do has the pizazz of a starched, white shirt. Coming soon to iOS: 1. Face ID that supports wearing a mask, but you're really tired from staying up late forcing yourself to memorize Old Man and the Sea backwards and you can't find the glasses you normally wear 2. 47 new emoji signifying various varieties of field grass, including zoysia, ryegrass, and seashore paspalum. 3. A new tab in iMessage that gives you ideas for conversation starters each day. Ideas could be discussing your favorite speed of breeze or the optimal number of times you should let a record spin on the run-out and whether you should count the rotations out-loud or silently.
    shareef777
  • Reply 6 of 34
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,572member
    mjtomlin said:
    Agree with both comments above…
    I also think Apple could start lowering their fees, especially for subscription services. 
    Thanks, but don't you agree that Apple's $0 charge for free apps needs to be subsidized by the charge for the bigger companies?
    rezwitsuraharamaximarawatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 34
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,572member
    Apple need to open up their platform, ... Apple could see a new renaissance if they open their doors to more content. 
    The question isn't whether Apple should do this or that, the question is whether Apple should be FORCED to do those things. Don't you think Apple should have the same freedoms as someone who opens up a lemonade stand and sells only one brand of lemonade? Intelligence should never be mandated by law.

    Frankly, you all might be right that Apple might win more business if they did those things you want. I don't know. But I do know that I believe in freedom and Apple should be allowed to make the wrong business choices. Can you tell me why Apple should be denied freedom?
    iOS_Guy80rob53maximara
  • Reply 8 of 34
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,673member
    lkrupp said:
    Only the malcontents that infest tech blogs like AppleInsider would side-load, and they would deserve whatever they get. This is purely a case of the tail trying to wag the dog, a bunch of losers who want to force Apple to do something it doesn’t want to do when they could easily move to Android and side-load away to their heart's content as well as tweet settings till the cows come home. But no, they insist Apple be forced to be just like Android and hide behind the ‘choice’ false flag.

    That’s a little harsh, don’t you think? As a programming hobbyist, there are things I write that I would like to be able to give to a few other people, but not “publish” on the App Store. There are more than just nefarious reasons for wanting something like side-loading. 
  • Reply 9 of 34
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,572member
    mjtomlin said:
    lkrupp said:
    Only the malcontents that infest tech blogs like AppleInsider would side-load, and they would deserve whatever they get. This is purely a case of the tail trying to wag the dog, a bunch of losers who want to force Apple to do something it doesn’t want to do when they could easily move to Android and side-load away to their heart's content as well as tweet settings till the cows come home. But no, they insist Apple be forced to be just like Android and hide behind the ‘choice’ false flag.

    That’s a little harsh, don’t you think? As a programming hobbyist, there are things I write that I would like to be able to give to a few other people, but not “publish” on the App Store. There are more than just nefarious reasons for wanting something like side-loading. 
    You can already do that two different ways, with TestFlight and Xcode. Why do you want a third way?

    https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/346416/how-to-share-an-app-with-friends-and-family-only <--
    ronnurahararob53jahbladeaderutter
  • Reply 10 of 34
    I could understand this if there were no other options in the market for a phone.  And frankly, isn’t this a first world problem?  Perhaps move onto other more important legislation.  And, if you don’t like proprietary k-cups, then buy a coffee machine that does not use them.   You don’t force Keurig to support every type of  coffee capsule in the market.  How many congressmen have security controlled phones to support their security clearance?  Maybe they should write legislation to side load on those? It is a controlled device with monopololistic practices of a closed system after all !  ;)  geez. 
  • Reply 11 of 34
    Always entertaining when the companies all for big government and regulation complain when it affects them. 
    maximara
  • Reply 12 of 34
    rezwitsrezwits Posts: 879member
    I could understand this if there were no other options in the market for a phone.  And frankly, isn’t this a first world problem?  Perhaps move onto other more important legislation.  And, if you don’t like proprietary k-cups, then buy a coffee machine that does not use them.   You don’t force Keurig to support every type of  coffee capsule in the market.  How many congressmen have security controlled phones to support their security clearance?  Maybe they should write legislation to side load on those? It is a controlled device with monopololistic practices of a closed system after all !  ;)  geez. 
    You wanna hear a funny story?  I used to take care of my "old man" and 7 years ago, he wanted a K-cup coffee machine, but didn't want to buy/pay the heavy fee for an actual proprietary branded one, me being an "Apple FanBoy" I told him spend the $120 get some free cups and that'll work better.
    He cheap'd out and spent $45, the first one broke in a little over a year. He spent $60 on another one, that broke a couple years later but had a warranty, from Walmart.  I took it back and got replacement unit from Walmart.  The 3rd one (the replacement) broke in under a year.
    I said that's it damn it, I went out and spent $90 cause they had come down since the first release at $150, like 15 years ago,
    I was like here! DONE, I am sick of this replacing these stupid knock offs.  I told you get the REAL DEAL and stop being stupid.
    This story may seem off topic but the point is, if you get the knock offs you get CRAP.
    Somethings CAN be done, 99% the right way in a controlled environment.
    I still have that 4th coffee machine, the authentic Keurig one, and it's lasted over 4 years.

    SECURITY, DO IT FOR ME!  I don't have an army of 10,000 programmers to do it myself.
    I want to make money selling software, STOP PIRACY, I don't have an army of 10,000 coders to it myself.

    RIDIC
    JaiOh81maximara
  • Reply 13 of 34
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,673member
    mjtomlin said:
    lkrupp said:
    Only the malcontents that infest tech blogs like AppleInsider would side-load, and they would deserve whatever they get. This is purely a case of the tail trying to wag the dog, a bunch of losers who want to force Apple to do something it doesn’t want to do when they could easily move to Android and side-load away to their heart's content as well as tweet settings till the cows come home. But no, they insist Apple be forced to be just like Android and hide behind the ‘choice’ false flag.

    That’s a little harsh, don’t you think? As a programming hobbyist, there are things I write that I would like to be able to give to a few other people, but not “publish” on the App Store. There are more than just nefarious reasons for wanting something like side-loading. 
    You can already do that two different ways, with TestFlight and Xcode. Why do you want a third way?

    https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/346416/how-to-share-an-app-with-friends-and-family-only <--

    Yep. Already knew those options… not the same thing as creating a full app and sending it to someone for them to use freely without restrictions. Both TestFlight and distributing Xcode projects have limitations and hurdles.

    I’m all for side-loading, but at the same time, I’m not complaining about Apple not allowing it because I fully understand why they don’t allow it, and I accept it. 

    Having an opinion doesn’t make someone unreasonable. Just because you cannot fathom why someone might need a 3rd option, doesn’t mean they don’t have a legitimate reason for it.
    muthuk_vanalingamwilliamlondon
  • Reply 14 of 34
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,673member
    mjtomlin said:
    Agree with both comments above…
    I also think Apple could start lowering their fees, especially for subscription services. 
    Thanks, but don't you agree that Apple's $0 charge for free apps needs to be subsidized by the charge for the bigger companies?

    Apple charges all developers $99 a year to distribute their apps in the App Store, regardless of price. If a developer wants to make money by selling that app, then Apple should be able to charge a fee for each transaction made. Apple is completely entitled to determined what that fee is as long as the developer is aware of those fees when joining the developer program.

    Believing that doesn’t preclude me from thinking Apple might be better off if they lowered those fees as an option to get rid of all these antitrust accusations.
    muthuk_vanalingamiOS_Guy80maximarawilliamlondon
  • Reply 15 of 34
    Your coffee machine story reminds me of the Terry Pratchett (GNU) https://samvimesbootstheory.com/. Buy cheap and you end up paying more.
    maximararezwits
  • Reply 16 of 34
    mjtomlin said:
    mjtomlin said:
    Agree with both comments above…
    I also think Apple could start lowering their fees, especially for subscription services. 
    Thanks, but don't you agree that Apple's $0 charge for free apps needs to be subsidized by the charge for the bigger companies?

    Apple charges all developers $99 a year to distribute their apps in the App Store, regardless of price. If a developer wants to make money by selling that app, then Apple should be able to charge a fee for each transaction made. Apple is completely entitled to determined what that fee is as long as the developer is aware of those fees when joining the developer program.

    Believing that doesn’t preclude me from thinking Apple might be better off if they lowered those fees as an option to get rid of all these antitrust accusations.
    I notice you ignored my question, which was whether Apple can "subsidize" its services for its developers of free apps (eg, iCloud services) using the 15% to 30% fees that come from the non-free apps. I read your post three times and I couldn't find the answer. Once again you talk about what Apple should be doing (you said, "Apple might be better off if...", and you said "Apple could start lowering its fees") but that's missing the point of why Apple has to do anything other than what it wants to do. Why don't you want Apple to have the right to make a bad business decision? Why do you deny Apple any freedom? Who should be the individuals that get to tell Apple what they can do?

    Apple has the right, in my opinion, (and so does Google) to conduct business the way it wants, even if it's not optimal for your purposes or for anyone's purposes. Some people seem to think that companies shouldn't have the same freedoms that individuals do. If Apple doesn't want to have any app stores on iOS, they shouldn't be forced. You have lots of other choices you can make when you buy a smartphone.
    smiffy31iOS_Guy80maximara
  • Reply 17 of 34
    mjtomlin said:
    mjtomlin said:
    lkrupp said:
    Only the malcontents that infest tech blogs like AppleInsider would side-load, and they would deserve whatever they get. This is purely a case of the tail trying to wag the dog, a bunch of losers who want to force Apple to do something it doesn’t want to do when they could easily move to Android and side-load away to their heart's content as well as tweet settings till the cows come home. But no, they insist Apple be forced to be just like Android and hide behind the ‘choice’ false flag.

    That’s a little harsh, don’t you think? As a programming hobbyist, there are things I write that I would like to be able to give to a few other people, but not “publish” on the App Store. There are more than just nefarious reasons for wanting something like side-loading. 
    You can already do that two different ways, with TestFlight and Xcode. Why do you want a third way?

    https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/346416/how-to-share-an-app-with-friends-and-family-only <--

    Yep. Already knew those options… not the same thing as creating a full app and sending it to someone for them to use freely without restrictions. Both TestFlight and distributing Xcode projects have limitations and hurdles.
    Aha! So you want a free-for-all for developers and users on iOS. Now I understand you. You're entitled to want that. And you're entitled to get that in Android. What you are not entitled to do is to force Apple's iOS to copy any part of Android's design.

    Apple is not required to copy anything or everything that Android already gives you. However, in case you aren't familiar with my posts, I've been saying for years on these forums that Apple should allow users to replace iOS with Android on iPhones. Would that make you happy? You could then share apps with your friends "without restrictions," using Android on iPhones. Of course that won't make you happy because that's not really what you want. You do not want the freedom to install apps on iPhones, you want the freedom to install apps on iOS. Right?
    uraharaaderutter
  • Reply 18 of 34
    Side loading is an awful idea. People already deal with spam calls, phishing emails, Trojans. Companies deal with ransomware attacks and phishing schemes every day and the number only increases. Bad actors from overseas and on-shore are looking for easy money and access to vital information on our country and competition, let’s not make it worse by opening yet another door stupidly.

    instead our government should focus on closing some of the existing holes and making it something we don’t need to worry about. Work with other countries on cybercrime laws and enforce them harshly.


    maximarabadmonkwilliamlondon
  • Reply 19 of 34
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    Apple has no legal obligation to allow any third party apps on their platforms. Let alone third party app stores.
    Not unless this bill were to pass, then it's legal obligation.

    That said, I don't see a chance in Hades that the bill passes.
    muthuk_vanalingammaximara
  • Reply 20 of 34
    mjtomlin said:

    Yep. Already knew those options… not the same thing as creating a full app and sending it to someone for them to use freely without restrictions. Both TestFlight and distributing Xcode projects have limitations and hurdles.
    There is the newly announced https://developer.apple.com/support/unlisted-app-distribution/ that allows apps to be distributed to anyone in any number through the app store.
    It remains to be seen how this works out in practice. I will be trying this out with an app I currently distribute with the ADHOC distribution method, when I renew the certificates.
    aderutter
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