Apple, Google attack EU's Big Tech regulatory proposals

Posted:
in General Discussion
The European Union's new Digital Markets Act has been responded to by both Apple and Google, with each company saying the regulation would impose limits on their ability to innovate.

Flag of the European Union
Flag of the European Union


Following the EU's publication of its full Digital Markets Act proposal, the two companies most clearly affected have both spoken out against the planned legislation.

According to ABC News, Apple believes the DMA plans present a risk to security.

"[Parts of the DMA] will create unnecessary privacy and security vulnerabilities for our users," said an Apple spokesperson. "Others will prohibit us from charging for intellectual property in which we invest a great deal."

Google says it intends to work with the EU regulators on the implementation of the proposals.

"We support many of the DMA's ambitions around consumer choice and interoperability," said a Google spokesperson. "We remain concerned that some of the rules could reduce innovation and the choice available to Europeans."

Amazon is also potentially affected by the proposals and told ABC News that it was presently reviewing what the rules could mean for its customers.

The rules, which apply to "gatekeeper" firms, defined as those that earn more than $8 billion a year, that run major services such as social media platforms. The Digital Markets Act includes requirements that could see the companies having to radically change their businesses.

Specifically, Apple would be required to allow sideloading of apps onto iPhones via alternative App Stores. It would also have to allow alternative payment methods alongside its own in-app purchase system, all of which Apple has objected to on security grounds

Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 19
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,253member
    Consumers have a choice. Use a different product. Choice doesn’t mean I have the right to force a company to provide a product the way I want it. Governments have no right to demand a company make something different than what the company wants to sell, except for safety reasons. If the EU gets away with this, I believe they need to be renamed as dictatorship. That’s what they’ve become. 

    To all you EU viewers, what has the EU produced lately? Certainly not any mobile devices or computers. Why don't you just build your own phones? Because you can't? Before you try and tell companies from other countries how to run their businesses why don't you try and replace them with something better instead of telling us what to do.
    edited March 2022 aderutterlkruppnetroxdarelrexbshank
  • Reply 2 of 19
    How will this law impact the gatekeeper statuses of Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo with their gaming platforms?
    aderutterlkrupplordjohnwhorfinapplguyfreeassociate2bshank
  • Reply 3 of 19
    KTRKTR Posts: 280member
    Apple should pill their products, pay the fines and move on
    bshankradarthekat
  • Reply 4 of 19
    rezwitsrezwits Posts: 879member
    Thing is they tell Apple, "You have 3 months to implement the changes" and even if they do in say 12 months or 18 months, this way the EU can get some FINE$ in just for a good year, BASTARDS!
  • Reply 5 of 19
    Google will work with the EU because all they want to make sure is that they are still taking as much data from their products (costumers) as possible. They say they can’t innovate in taking more data I suppose. 
    danox
  • Reply 6 of 19
    iSRSiSRS Posts: 49member
    Forgive my potential ignorance, but this sounds like it is specifically targeted to the big “US based” tech firms. 

    If it was applied to everyone, it sounds like I should be able to go into Dominos, tell them I want to use the Pizza Hut app to pay, and that they provide me with a Papa John’s Pizza. I am not sure why the fact that these companies are large, or that the products are digital should change things.

    I can’t go into Walmart and demand they take my Target Credit Card, or let me pay with my Target Wallet.

    Can anyone that understands this better than I do help me understand what the EU is trying to do here?

    The choice is made before I get to the App Store or Google Play. There is still a choice.
    bshankFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 7 of 19
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    iSRS said:
    Forgive my potential ignorance, but this sounds like it is specifically targeted to the big “US based” tech firms. 
    Well, since there are no EU ‘big tech’ firms to speak of I suppose the answer is yes.
    netroxFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 8 of 19
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,573member
    iSRS said:
    Can anyone that understands this better than I do help me understand what the EU is trying to do here?
    The EU and many other jurisdictions are trying to say that the end user should have full control over the features of the OS, and that the manufacturer's OS cannot limit what the device does.

    Oddly, their ideals don't apply to cars, many of which are made in Europe and contain operating systems for their infotainment systems. I would actually consider certain EU models of cars if I could replace the infotainment OS with something else. But that would affect big EU companies' ability to control their customers, so the EU won't apply the same rules to their own manufacturers' devices.
    ionicledarelrexdanoxfreeassociate2bshankFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 9 of 19
    iSRSiSRS Posts: 49member
    iSRS said:
    Can anyone that understands this better than I do help me understand what the EU is trying to do here?
    The EU and many other jurisdictions are trying to say that the end user should have full control over the features of the OS, and that the manufacturer's OS cannot limit what the device does.

    Oddly, their ideals don't apply to cars, many of which are made in Europe and contain operating systems for their infotainment systems. I would actually consider certain EU models of cars if I could replace the infotainment OS with something else. But that would affect big EU companies' ability to control their customers, so the EU won't apply the same rules to their own manufacturers' devices.
    Cars are another great example, as are the gaming consoles. So I am not wrong in thinking this is just political gesturing, but with the EU, they actually can affect this type of (ill-conceived) change.
    danox
  • Reply 10 of 19
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,698member
    rob53 said:
    Consumers have a choice. Use a different product. Choice doesn’t mean I have the right to force a company to provide a product the way I want it. Governments have no right to demand a company make something different than what the company wants to sell, except for safety reasons. If the EU gets away with this, I believe they need to be renamed as dictatorship. That’s what they’ve become. 

    To all you EU viewers, what has the EU produced lately? Certainly not any mobile devices or computers. Why don't you just build your own phones? Because you can't? Before you try and tell companies from other countries how to run their businesses why don't you try and replace them with something better instead of telling us what to do.
    What makes you think the EU can't do any of that? 

    Apple, Google, Facebook, Huawei, Microsoft etc have a lot of R&D carried out in the EU.

    As for what the EU has done, just take a look at healthcare, consumer protection, environmental safety, food safety etc and compare those aspects to those available in the US.

    Without claiming everything is perfect here I have yet to know a single US citizen living in the EU who does not want to stay here.

    Why would that be? 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 11 of 19
    kmareikmarei Posts: 183member
    rob53 said:
    Consumers have a choice. Use a different product. Choice doesn’t mean I have the right to force a company to provide a product the way I want it. Governments have no right to demand a company make something different than what the company wants to sell, except for safety reasons. If the EU gets away with this, I believe they need to be renamed as dictatorship. That’s what they’ve become. 

    To all you EU viewers, what has the EU produced lately? Certainly not any mobile devices or computers. Why don't you just build your own phones? Because you can't? Before you try and tell companies from other countries how to run their businesses why don't you try and replace them with something better instead of telling us what to do.
    China forced apple to host its iCloud backups in china for Chinese market
    and to remove some apps (vpn apps) from Chinese market app store
    apple has done this before, just like they added the charger for iPhones sold in France I believe 
    so this isn't something new
  • Reply 12 of 19
    darelrexdarelrex Posts: 138member
    kmarei said:
    China forced apple to host its iCloud backups in china for Chinese market
    and to remove some apps (vpn apps) from Chinese market app store
    apple has done this before, just like they added the charger for iPhones sold in France I believe 
    so this isn't something new
    Those changes might be tolerable and these ones might not be. Just because Apple has made some kinds of regulatory concessions in some countries, doesn't mean that going forward they should do anything anyone demands, no matter how damaging.
    freeassociate2radarthekat
  • Reply 13 of 19
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,698member
    darelrex said:
    kmarei said:
    China forced apple to host its iCloud backups in china for Chinese market
    and to remove some apps (vpn apps) from Chinese market app store
    apple has done this before, just like they added the charger for iPhones sold in France I believe 
    so this isn't something new
    Those changes might be tolerable and these ones might not be. Just because Apple has made some kinds of regulatory concessions in some countries, doesn't mean that going forward they should do anything anyone demands, no matter how damaging.
    There will be regulatory demands everywhere. There always have been. Yes, Apple has the option to comply or pull out. This applies in the US too. 

    Pulling out wouldn't do a lot of good for its business and would allow for competitors, who are willing to comply with regulations, to sweep up its current users and attached revenue streams. 

    Apple and Google etc will protest and try to lobby and see what happens or maybe get creative.

    How about an iPhone Max Security where potential users are required to explicitly sign acceptance of Apple's terms prior to purchase. That might allow them swerve some of the biggest issues here.

    The problem is that I doubt many users would actually do that if there was a regular iPhone without limitations competing with it.

    And competitors would have a marketing field day with that. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 14 of 19
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,872member
    darelrex said:
    kmarei said:
    China forced apple to host its iCloud backups in china for Chinese market
    and to remove some apps (vpn apps) from Chinese market app store
    apple has done this before, just like they added the charger for iPhones sold in France I believe 
    so this isn't something new
    Those changes might be tolerable and these ones might not be. Just because Apple has made some kinds of regulatory concessions in some countries, doesn't mean that going forward they should do anything anyone demands, no matter how damaging.
    It may mean a regional iPhone and services just for the EU…..While the rest of the world moves on…
    radarthekat
  • Reply 15 of 19
    bshankbshank Posts: 255member
    avon b7 said:
    rob53 said:
    Consumers have a choice. Use a different product. Choice doesn’t mean I have the right to force a company to provide a product the way I want it. Governments have no right to demand a company make something different than what the company wants to sell, except for safety reasons. If the EU gets away with this, I believe they need to be renamed as dictatorship. That’s what they’ve become. 

    To all you EU viewers, what has the EU produced lately? Certainly not any mobile devices or computers. Why don't you just build your own phones? Because you can't? Before you try and tell companies from other countries how to run their businesses why don't you try and replace them with something better instead of telling us what to do.
    What makes you think the EU can't do any of that? 

    Apple, Google, Facebook, Huawei, Microsoft etc have a lot of R&D carried out in the EU.

    As for what the EU has done, just take a look at healthcare, consumer protection, environmental safety, food safety etc and compare those aspects to those available in the US.

    Without claiming everything is perfect here I have yet to know a single US citizen living in the EU who does not want to stay here.

    Why would that be? 
    It’s only because of the cheese
    FileMakerFeller
  • Reply 16 of 19
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,843moderator
    avon b7 said:
    rob53 said:
    Consumers have a choice. Use a different product. Choice doesn’t mean I have the right to force a company to provide a product the way I want it. Governments have no right to demand a company make something different than what the company wants to sell, except for safety reasons. If the EU gets away with this, I believe they need to be renamed as dictatorship. That’s what they’ve become. 

    To all you EU viewers, what has the EU produced lately? Certainly not any mobile devices or computers. Why don't you just build your own phones? Because you can't? Before you try and tell companies from other countries how to run their businesses why don't you try and replace them with something better instead of telling us what to do.
    What makes you think the EU can't do any of that? 

    Apple, Google, Facebook, Huawei, Microsoft etc have a lot of R&D carried out in the EU.

    As for what the EU has done, just take a look at healthcare, consumer protection, environmental safety, food safety etc and compare those aspects to those available in the US.

    Without claiming everything is perfect here I have yet to know a single US citizen living in the EU who does not want to stay here.

    Why would that be? 
    That would be self-selection bias.  

    A more accurate assessment would be made by polling a population of people who do not live in the EU.  You’d explain in detail how the EU differs from some control country or region outside the EU, and then ask which place would be more desirable to move to.  
    edited March 2022
  • Reply 17 of 19
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,843moderator
    avon b7 said:
    darelrex said:
    kmarei said:
    China forced apple to host its iCloud backups in china for Chinese market
    and to remove some apps (vpn apps) from Chinese market app store
    apple has done this before, just like they added the charger for iPhones sold in France I believe 
    so this isn't something new
    Those changes might be tolerable and these ones might not be. Just because Apple has made some kinds of regulatory concessions in some countries, doesn't mean that going forward they should do anything anyone demands, no matter how damaging.
    There will be regulatory demands everywhere. There always have been. Yes, Apple has the option to comply or pull out. This applies in the US too. 

    Pulling out wouldn't do a lot of good for its business and would allow for competitors, who are willing to comply with regulations, to sweep up its current users and attached revenue streams. 

    Apple and Google etc will protest and try to lobby and see what happens or maybe get creative.

    How about an iPhone Max Security where potential users are required to explicitly sign acceptance of Apple's terms prior to purchase. That might allow them swerve some of the biggest issues here.

    The problem is that I doubt many users would actually do that if there was a regular iPhone without limitations competing with it.

    And competitors would have a marketing field day with that. 
    How about what Google did with OEMs, offering them a stripped down subset of their services if they didn’t want the Google Playstore.  

    Apple could just offer an iOS lite to the EU, with no way to upgrade to full iOS.  IOS lite would, of course, not include many of the APIs critical to creating monetizable apps.  The app developers would need to roll their own versions of those APIs, and do so in a form that doesn’t get them sued by Apple for copyright infringement.  But go ahead, make your own app stores and side-loaded apps.  Of course, those missing APIs would be available to any app installed via the Apple App Store.  
    edited March 2022 FileMakerFeller
  • Reply 18 of 19
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,573member
    avon b7 said:
    darelrex said:
    kmarei said:
    China forced apple to host its iCloud backups in china for Chinese market
    and to remove some apps (vpn apps) from Chinese market app store
    apple has done this before, just like they added the charger for iPhones sold in France I believe 
    so this isn't something new
    Those changes might be tolerable and these ones might not be. Just because Apple has made some kinds of regulatory concessions in some countries, doesn't mean that going forward they should do anything anyone demands, no matter how damaging.
    There will be regulatory demands everywhere. There always have been. Yes, Apple has the option to comply or pull out. This applies in the US too. 

    Pulling out wouldn't do a lot of good for its business and would allow for competitors, who are willing to comply with regulations, to sweep up its current users and attached revenue streams. 

    Apple and Google etc will protest and try to lobby and see what happens or maybe get creative.

    How about an iPhone Max Security where potential users are required to explicitly sign acceptance of Apple's terms prior to purchase. That might allow them swerve some of the biggest issues here.

    The problem is that I doubt many users would actually do that if there was a regular iPhone without limitations competing with it.

    And competitors would have a marketing field day with that. 
    How about what Google did with OEMs, offering them a stripped down subset of their services if they didn’t want the Google Playstore.  

    Apple could just offer an iOS lite to the EU, with no way to upgrade to full iOS.  IOS lite would, of course, not include many of the APIs critical to creating monetizable apps.  The app developers would need to roll their own versions of those APIs, and do so in a form that doesn’t get them sued by Apple for copyright infringement.  But go ahead, make your own app stores and side-loaded apps.  Of course, those missing APIs would be available to any app installed via the Apple App Store.  
    Some big companies, like Epic or Microsoft, would probably be very okay with that change. In fact, they would probably prefer it that way so that small companies can't compete with them. So my opinion is that Apple should switch from selling to leasing iPhones in the EU. If the device is rented rather than owned, it most likely wouldn't be subject to the same requirements, because the device isn't "owned" by the user.
    radarthekat
  • Reply 19 of 19
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,843moderator
    avon b7 said:
    darelrex said:
    kmarei said:
    China forced apple to host its iCloud backups in china for Chinese market
    and to remove some apps (vpn apps) from Chinese market app store
    apple has done this before, just like they added the charger for iPhones sold in France I believe 
    so this isn't something new
    Those changes might be tolerable and these ones might not be. Just because Apple has made some kinds of regulatory concessions in some countries, doesn't mean that going forward they should do anything anyone demands, no matter how damaging.
    There will be regulatory demands everywhere. There always have been. Yes, Apple has the option to comply or pull out. This applies in the US too. 

    Pulling out wouldn't do a lot of good for its business and would allow for competitors, who are willing to comply with regulations, to sweep up its current users and attached revenue streams. 

    Apple and Google etc will protest and try to lobby and see what happens or maybe get creative.

    How about an iPhone Max Security where potential users are required to explicitly sign acceptance of Apple's terms prior to purchase. That might allow them swerve some of the biggest issues here.

    The problem is that I doubt many users would actually do that if there was a regular iPhone without limitations competing with it.

    And competitors would have a marketing field day with that. 
    How about what Google did with OEMs, offering them a stripped down subset of their services if they didn’t want the Google Playstore.  

    Apple could just offer an iOS lite to the EU, with no way to upgrade to full iOS.  IOS lite would, of course, not include many of the APIs critical to creating monetizable apps.  The app developers would need to roll their own versions of those APIs, and do so in a form that doesn’t get them sued by Apple for copyright infringement.  But go ahead, make your own app stores and side-loaded apps.  Of course, those missing APIs would be available to any app installed via the Apple App Store.  
    Some big companies, like Epic or Microsoft, would probably be very okay with that change. In fact, they would probably prefer it that way so that small companies can't compete with them. So my opinion is that Apple should switch from selling to leasing iPhones in the EU. If the device is rented rather than owned, it most likely wouldn't be subject to the same requirements, because the device isn't "owned" by the user.
    Already the OS is not owned, but licensed.  So I’m not sure how much your proposal would change the picture.  But I’d be supportive of any change that would circumvent this pending EU law.  
    FileMakerFeller
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