i doubt it. The only time the EU is ever "unified" is when France and Germany agree and then Britain is willing to go along and Italy and Spain can be ignored. It's going to get even more messy with all of the new countries and the Franco-German force, which is really the ones driving the strong EU idea will become more diluted. But even s'posing that they were able somehow to come to a unified solution, they would have to rearm to bring weight to their foreign policy. Even the pacifist military minimalist (of late at least) Germans realize this which is Fischer was babbling on about his coalition of the willing defense policy. Which would be basically France since Belgium and Germany have little to offer at present or for the foreseeable future. Unless Germany wants to rearm and send all of those unemployed Deutschlanders into national service, which of course they wouldn't, but hypothetically if they did I'm not sure the French would stay so keen on the idea. Perhaps if we encourage Germany to rearm this is the way to get Franch and the Unilateralistanis to hug. Always worked before. Anway, I doubt either the politicians or the public are down with Euroarmament to back their foreign policy.
Well I'm sure you are well versed in how your countrymen feel about Shrubbery. And I don't blame them for the most part. He drives me nuts as well, though for different reasons in some ways. But of course, Mr. Chiraq is equally as well thought of in this country. Rightly so as well given his motivations and various grandstanding absurdities. So it goes. I see no problem with heaping massive criticism on the Chiraqis as long as one makes it clear that the govt is the source of all that well earned scorn. And the vandals and racists can have their moment in the sun as well.
After that, let's just admit that the French and Americans are not allies anymore as long as the present French govt remains in power and get on with it. It's OK, it's not really a big deal to either country.
You will be surprised but i don't know Shrubbery even if i heard many times his name on these boards.
You have the right to be pissed about Chirac, you made some constructive arguments in other threads
Like every countrie there is problems in France, and from time to time these problems are under the sunlights, but you should not resume France to these problems or his past as nor you should resume US to amerindians killer's, ex slavery people or whatever you want. I am ready to discuss some internal political problems concerning France , but i doubt that it will interest many peoples, or i fear it will just add some more noise, something i am not interested in.
Concerning allies. I will said that France and US will have bad relationships as long as the respective governements of these countries will be in charge, but saying they are not anymore allies is wrong. Allies means linked by an alliance, and that alliance is NATO. NATO is not broken, and France is respecting is NATO contract, by letting the coalition planes to fly in the french sky.
Groverat : i am not offended by you, just by the last post before my reply.
i doubt it. The only time the EU is ever "unified" is when France and Germany agree and then Britain is willing to go along and Italy and Spain can be ignored. It's going to get even more messy with all of the new countries and the Franco-German force, which is really the ones driving the strong EU idea will become more diluted. But even s'posing that they were able somehow to come to a unified solution, they would have to rearm to bring weight to their foreign policy. Even the pacifist military minimalist (of late at least) Germans realize this which is Fischer was babbling on about his coalition of the willing defense policy. Which would be basically France since Belgium and Germany have little to offer at present or for the foreseeable future. Unless Germany wants to rearm and send all of those unemployed Deutschlanders into national service, which of course they wouldn't, but hypothetically if they did I'm not sure the French would stay so keen on the idea. Perhaps if we encourage Germany to rearm this is the way to get Franch and the Unilateralistanis to hug. Always worked before. Anway, I doubt either the politicians or the public are down with Euroarmament to back their foreign policy.
Do you really know anything about the EU? I mean have you been following the process and development at all? Or are these just your very personal gut-feelings?
Oh and then there is that 25% that want the US to lose the war. That French quarter deserves some unpleasant thoughts uttered in their general direction as well.
Yes undoubtely, it's stupid. France is not full of intelligent people. It's not a scoop. Just give me the name of a countrie full of intelligent people and i will move here . Hmm perhaps they should not let me in, afterall i am an insane moderator
Yes undoubtely, it's stupid. France is not full of intelligent people. It's not a scoop. Just give me the name of a countrie full of intelligent people and i will move here . Hmm perhaps they should not let me in, afterall i am an insane moderator
Insanity and intelligence are two independent concepts, aren't they? If you move there, maybe I can visit once in a while. I doubt if I could pass their visa restrictions.
I like France-- honestly. Even if they do drive crazy (in a different crazy from say, Germany or the States), and even if it's the only place in the world I've ever had my car broken into (and I lived next to 8 Mile in the Detroit area).
However, someone sent me one of those pass-it-around-emails where according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, France is responsible for 13% of Iraq's arms imports. Additionally, Iraq owes France something like $5 billion, which cannot be repaid until sanctions are lifted.
I agree with Powerdoc about Intelligent Countries. Or "Righteous" ones. There's just varying levels of hypocrisy. Like people having good days and bad days, some countries have better eras than others.
Other than that, while France does have its problems (some of which are worrying me since I have relatives and friends there), and while its recent foreign policies have been, if you ask me, worse that the US' (which doean't make the US ones good, nuance!), it's globally no better or worse than the the USA, Britain, or Belgium (I couldn't say about Norway, haven't been there since the 70s), to name a few countries of this thread's posters.
France is responsible for 13% of Iraq's arms imports. Additionally, Iraq owes France something like $5 billion, which cannot be repaid until sanctions are lifted.
This is, IMO, as good a reason as any to keep the peace. Is it hypocrisy? Maybe to the extent that they don't come right out and mention their economic interest, but the effect is the same: there wouldn't have been war if it were up to France, and that, to me, is the bottom line.
Also, having spent, in total, about a year in France up to now, and having the country at less than an hour's drive (okay, I'm a Belgian, try to find a country that's NOT an hour's drive away from me), I like it very much. It is not without reason that it is coined 'la douce France' throughout most of Europe. As any country, it has it's 'beauty spots', even Cindy Crawford has them, though she, admittedly, is not a country.
.
Quote:
If you used English units, would you by chance be around say 6'4"? Are you fit, even strong perhaps, a nice muscular build from exercising in your Brussels home? You know, it seems you speaka his language. I have often wondered, if groverat said that to your face would you just smile and give him a vegemite sandwich?
Not really, I'm just pointing at what is, imo, a logical fallacy. I am not little because I am Belgian, I am, in the same degree as everybody else here, a human being, and I am not a victim of the fallacy telling me that I am only as tall or big as my nation is. I heard the phrase piggy-backing, and I think this is, by far, the best example. It is actually, groverat, one of my biggest beefs with you, this thinking of you that you, because you're one face in a crowd of 270 million, are somehow more important than me, a face in a crowd of a mere 10 million.
Also, if he wants to belittle me with this little Belgian crap, he should know that I am indeed 6'4", or over, I don't know your feet, thumbs, and teeth system that well. In any case, irony would have it that this little Belgian would tower over that large American.
I would like to point out that this is not a personal attack. And, I'd like to invite groverat to discuss the point I have brought up above.
I'm not sure what the connection between pro-life fückers and xenophobia is.
You should not look for more connection than I have intended when I wrote that up: they are political stances held by the Vlaams Blok and by the Republican Party, they are, moreover, two of the stances at least our Vlaams Blok, actively is defined by. That is the connection. The list could even go on: tough on crime (zero tolerance, anyone?), 'war on drugs', tough and restrictive when it comes to social security (out of an underlying belief that jobless folks are lazy profiteering bastards). And so on. You'd be surprised. Also, softcore xenophobism, because neither comes right out and says 'them towelheads are stupid', both of them propose stricter immigration laws, and stricter measures to enforce these laws.
Now, you may pound on your chest and say that the US is free of these extreme-right wing aberations that pop up all over Europe, but realise that your 'civilised' rightwing begins where our 'civilised' rightwing danm near ends. In case you didn't realise, both France and Belgium have a right-wing prime minister. ( )
Not really, I'm just pointing at what is, imo, a logical fallacy. I am not little because I am Belgian, I am, in the same degree as everybody else here, a human being, and I am not a victim of the fallacy telling me that I am only as tall or big as my nation is. I heard the phrase piggy-backing, and I think this is, by far, the best example. It is actually, groverat, one of my biggest beefs with you, this thinking of you that you, because you're one face in a crowd of 270 million, are somehow more important than me, a face in a crowd of a mere 10 million.
Also, if he wants to belittle me with this little Belgian crap, he should know that I am indeed 6'4", or over, I don't know your feet, thumbs, and teeth system that well. In any case, irony would have it that this little Belgian would tower over that large American.
I would like to point out that this is not a personal attack. And, I'd like to invite groverat to discuss the point I have brought up above.
The reference to 6'4" and the rest of my post was an admittedly obtuse reference to A Land Down Under by Men at Work. Nothing more. You'll have to speak to groverat about whatever comment he made about stature. My guess is that groverat could still kick your ass though, he has a clear edge in aggression. Plus you can't use the hair pull on him.
You have the terminology wrong. It is actually the feat, thumbs and teeth system. Basically you try to brush your teeth with your thumbs and if you can do so it is a great feat. If you try say ten times and fail on 4 but succeed on 6 then you would be 6'4" tall. Naturally it is derived from the British who as a nation have generally failed at brushing their teeth.
As for the more topical points in the thread, I'll respond to them later once I can find a mainline in which to get the coffee flowing through the old ticker. Here in WestCoastistan it is only 7:39 AM, too early in the morning to mock the French even for me.
The more i study the government of France, the more disgusted I am at its deep-rooted anti-Semitism. Between that, the poll that says some unbelivably high percentage of French folks wish Saddam to beat the coalition and the defacing of the English war memorial, I'm not very inclined to listen to France any longer.
My country still keeps up diplomatic relations with them. So far as I'm concerned, that might be more than they deserve.
Unfortunately most of the world is full of anti-semitism. and probably always has been.
Anti-semitic violence is on the rise in France. But does that have to do with this case? Maybe not.
If America were run this way Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would have been shot through the head in the 1970s. But America is not run that way, we have more freedoms here.
While I agree with the nature of your reply. this one point doesnt necessarily seem that bad.
sure of course not litterally, but these two guys cause more problems than they solve and are more trouble than they are worth.
The common foreign policy of the EU is not very far away.
French president telling Eastern Europe to "shut up."
UK/Poland going to war without the rest of Europe.
France/Germany/Belgium talking about their own defense force.
Yeah, it's just a few weeks away!
Quote:
Do you really know anything about the EU? I mean have you been following the process and development at all? Or are these just your very personal gut-feelings?
Do you even know how many times I've been condescended to from Europeans who act like they know everything about the US only to see them bristle when I say to them what you just said?
---------
der Kopf:
Re: "little Belgian".
Let's look at the sentence it's en, eh?
"Piggy-back your way to importance, little Belgian, it's the only way you'll be noticed."
Are *you*, der Kopf, piggy-backing your way to importance? No, your nation is. So when I say "little Belgian" I am referring to you as an obscure personification of your nation's policies. Belgium's government has a very severe case of "short-man" syndrome.
I'm very impressed that you're 6'4" (I am 2" shorter), and I'll gladly accept your vegemite sandwich.
Since I happily addressed that could you please answer the question of how the US has diminished in power?
Quote:
This is, IMO, as good a reason as any to keep the peace. Is it hypocrisy? Maybe to the extent that they don't come right out and mention their economic interest, but the effect is the same: there wouldn't have been war if it were up to France, and that, to me, is the bottom line.
Comments
Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
Well I'm sure you are well versed in how your countrymen feel about Shrubbery. And I don't blame them for the most part. He drives me nuts as well, though for different reasons in some ways. But of course, Mr. Chiraq is equally as well thought of in this country. Rightly so as well given his motivations and various grandstanding absurdities. So it goes. I see no problem with heaping massive criticism on the Chiraqis as long as one makes it clear that the govt is the source of all that well earned scorn. And the vandals and racists can have their moment in the sun as well.
After that, let's just admit that the French and Americans are not allies anymore as long as the present French govt remains in power and get on with it. It's OK, it's not really a big deal to either country.
You will be surprised but i don't know Shrubbery even if i heard many times his name on these boards.
You have the right to be pissed about Chirac, you made some constructive arguments in other threads
Like every countrie there is problems in France, and from time to time these problems are under the sunlights, but you should not resume France to these problems or his past as nor you should resume US to amerindians killer's, ex slavery people or whatever you want. I am ready to discuss some internal political problems concerning France , but i doubt that it will interest many peoples, or i fear it will just add some more noise, something i am not interested in.
Concerning allies. I will said that France and US will have bad relationships as long as the respective governements of these countries will be in charge, but saying they are not anymore allies is wrong. Allies means linked by an alliance, and that alliance is NATO. NATO is not broken, and France is respecting is NATO contract, by letting the coalition planes to fly in the french sky.
Groverat : i am not offended by you, just by the last post before my reply.
Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
i doubt it. The only time the EU is ever "unified" is when France and Germany agree and then Britain is willing to go along and Italy and Spain can be ignored. It's going to get even more messy with all of the new countries and the Franco-German force, which is really the ones driving the strong EU idea will become more diluted. But even s'posing that they were able somehow to come to a unified solution, they would have to rearm to bring weight to their foreign policy. Even the pacifist military minimalist (of late at least) Germans realize this which is Fischer was babbling on about his coalition of the willing defense policy. Which would be basically France since Belgium and Germany have little to offer at present or for the foreseeable future. Unless Germany wants to rearm and send all of those unemployed Deutschlanders into national service, which of course they wouldn't, but hypothetically if they did I'm not sure the French would stay so keen on the idea. Perhaps if we encourage Germany to rearm this is the way to get Franch and the Unilateralistanis to hug. Always worked before. Anway, I doubt either the politicians or the public are down with Euroarmament to back their foreign policy.
Do you really know anything about the EU? I mean have you been following the process and development at all? Or are these just your very personal gut-feelings?
Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
Oh and then there is that 25% that want the US to lose the war. That French quarter deserves some unpleasant thoughts uttered in their general direction as well.
Yes undoubtely, it's stupid. France is not full of intelligent people. It's not a scoop. Just give me the name of a countrie full of intelligent people and i will move here
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Yes undoubtely, it's stupid. France is not full of intelligent people. It's not a scoop. Just give me the name of a countrie full of intelligent people and i will move here
Insanity and intelligence are two independent concepts, aren't they? If you move there, maybe I can visit once in a while. I doubt if I could pass their visa restrictions.
However, someone sent me one of those pass-it-around-emails where according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, France is responsible for 13% of Iraq's arms imports. Additionally, Iraq owes France something like $5 billion, which cannot be repaid until sanctions are lifted.
(Hey-- they actually exist! Site: http://www.sipri.se/)
I agree with Powerdoc about Intelligent Countries. Or "Righteous" ones. There's just varying levels of hypocrisy. Like people having good days and bad days, some countries have better eras than others.
Originally posted by GardenOfEarthlyDelights
France is responsible for 13% of Iraq's arms imports. Additionally, Iraq owes France something like $5 billion, which cannot be repaid until sanctions are lifted.
This is, IMO, as good a reason as any to keep the peace. Is it hypocrisy? Maybe to the extent that they don't come right out and mention their economic interest, but the effect is the same: there wouldn't have been war if it were up to France, and that, to me, is the bottom line.
Also, having spent, in total, about a year in France up to now, and having the country at less than an hour's drive (okay, I'm a Belgian, try to find a country that's NOT an hour's drive away from me), I like it very much. It is not without reason that it is coined 'la douce France' throughout most of Europe. As any country, it has it's 'beauty spots', even Cindy Crawford has them, though she, admittedly, is not a country.
.
If you used English units, would you by chance be around say 6'4"? Are you fit, even strong perhaps, a nice muscular build from exercising in your Brussels home? You know, it seems you speaka his language. I have often wondered, if groverat said that to your face would you just smile and give him a vegemite sandwich?
Not really, I'm just pointing at what is, imo, a logical fallacy. I am not little because I am Belgian, I am, in the same degree as everybody else here, a human being, and I am not a victim of the fallacy telling me that I am only as tall or big as my nation is. I heard the phrase piggy-backing, and I think this is, by far, the best example. It is actually, groverat, one of my biggest beefs with you, this thinking of you that you, because you're one face in a crowd of 270 million, are somehow more important than me, a face in a crowd of a mere 10 million.
Also, if he wants to belittle me with this little Belgian crap, he should know that I am indeed 6'4", or over, I don't know your feet, thumbs, and teeth system that well. In any case, irony would have it that this little Belgian would tower over that large American.
I would like to point out that this is not a personal attack. And, I'd like to invite groverat to discuss the point I have brought up above.
Originally posted by New
I went there once, the food was good too...
I wasn't talking about France, but the nameless country full of intelligent people where Powerdoc is gonna move...
Originally posted by New
I wasn't talking about France, but the nameless country full of intelligent people where Powerdoc is gonna move...
The name of this countrie is utopia land. They refuse to give me a visa
I will miss the food
Originally posted by Powerdoc
The name of this countrie is utopia land. They refuse to give me a visa
I will miss the food
hey, France has great food to, I miss having a "canard" in Montmartre (as you say in freedom speak.)
Originally posted by New
hey, France has great food to, I miss having a "canard" in Montmartre (as you say in freedom speak.)
Yes a "canard" in a nice glass of old Armagnac or Cognac is fine.
Originally posted by Immanuel Goldstein
France [snip]'s globally no better or worse than the the USA, Britain, or Belgium.
Amen to that.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Yes a "canard" in a nice glass of old Armagnac or Cognac is fine.
Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
I'm not sure what the connection between pro-life fückers and xenophobia is.
You should not look for more connection than I have intended when I wrote that up: they are political stances held by the Vlaams Blok and by the Republican Party, they are, moreover, two of the stances at least our Vlaams Blok, actively is defined by. That is the connection. The list could even go on: tough on crime (zero tolerance, anyone?), 'war on drugs', tough and restrictive when it comes to social security (out of an underlying belief that jobless folks are lazy profiteering bastards). And so on. You'd be surprised. Also, softcore xenophobism, because neither comes right out and says 'them towelheads are stupid', both of them propose stricter immigration laws, and stricter measures to enforce these laws.
Now, you may pound on your chest and say that the US is free of these extreme-right wing aberations that pop up all over Europe, but realise that your 'civilised' rightwing begins where our 'civilised' rightwing danm near ends. In case you didn't realise, both France and Belgium have a right-wing prime minister. (
Not really, I'm just pointing at what is, imo, a logical fallacy. I am not little because I am Belgian, I am, in the same degree as everybody else here, a human being, and I am not a victim of the fallacy telling me that I am only as tall or big as my nation is. I heard the phrase piggy-backing, and I think this is, by far, the best example. It is actually, groverat, one of my biggest beefs with you, this thinking of you that you, because you're one face in a crowd of 270 million, are somehow more important than me, a face in a crowd of a mere 10 million.
Also, if he wants to belittle me with this little Belgian crap, he should know that I am indeed 6'4", or over, I don't know your feet, thumbs, and teeth system that well. In any case, irony would have it that this little Belgian would tower over that large American.
I would like to point out that this is not a personal attack. And, I'd like to invite groverat to discuss the point I have brought up above.
The reference to 6'4" and the rest of my post was an admittedly obtuse reference to A Land Down Under by Men at Work. Nothing more. You'll have to speak to groverat about whatever comment he made about stature. My guess is that groverat could still kick your ass though, he has a clear edge in aggression. Plus you can't use the hair pull on him.
You have the terminology wrong. It is actually the feat, thumbs and teeth system. Basically you try to brush your teeth with your thumbs and if you can do so it is a great feat. If you try say ten times and fail on 4 but succeed on 6 then you would be 6'4" tall. Naturally it is derived from the British who as a nation have generally failed at brushing their teeth.
As for the more topical points in the thread, I'll respond to them later once I can find a mainline in which to get the coffee flowing through the old ticker. Here in WestCoastistan it is only 7:39 AM, too early in the morning to mock the French even for me.
Originally posted by mrmister
The more i study the government of France, the more disgusted I am at its deep-rooted anti-Semitism. Between that, the poll that says some unbelivably high percentage of French folks wish Saddam to beat the coalition and the defacing of the English war memorial, I'm not very inclined to listen to France any longer.
My country still keeps up diplomatic relations with them. So far as I'm concerned, that might be more than they deserve.
Unfortunately most of the world is full of anti-semitism. and probably always has been.
Originally posted by groverat
Anti-semitic violence is on the rise in France. But does that have to do with this case? Maybe not.
If America were run this way Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would have been shot through the head in the 1970s. But America is not run that way, we have more freedoms here.
While I agree with the nature of your reply. this one point doesnt necessarily seem that bad.
sure of course not litterally, but these two guys cause more problems than they solve and are more trouble than they are worth.
The common foreign policy of the EU is not very far away.
French president telling Eastern Europe to "shut up."
UK/Poland going to war without the rest of Europe.
France/Germany/Belgium talking about their own defense force.
Yeah, it's just a few weeks away!
Do you really know anything about the EU? I mean have you been following the process and development at all? Or are these just your very personal gut-feelings?
Do you even know how many times I've been condescended to from Europeans who act like they know everything about the US only to see them bristle when I say to them what you just said?
---------
der Kopf:
Re: "little Belgian".
Let's look at the sentence it's en, eh?
"Piggy-back your way to importance, little Belgian, it's the only way you'll be noticed."
Are *you*, der Kopf, piggy-backing your way to importance? No, your nation is. So when I say "little Belgian" I am referring to you as an obscure personification of your nation's policies. Belgium's government has a very severe case of "short-man" syndrome.
I'm very impressed that you're 6'4" (I am 2" shorter), and I'll gladly accept your vegemite sandwich.
Since I happily addressed that could you please answer the question of how the US has diminished in power?
This is, IMO, as good a reason as any to keep the peace. Is it hypocrisy? Maybe to the extent that they don't come right out and mention their economic interest, but the effect is the same: there wouldn't have been war if it were up to France, and that, to me, is the bottom line.
There was no peace in Iraq before the war.
Logical fallacy, indeed.