All of you whiners probably using Macs that allow you to download software from any vendor, all using their own payment systems. You probably use multiple browsers (because, Safari) and your macs are no less (or more) secure for it. This just brings the iPhone to parity with the Mac. If you are terrified by this for some reason you can just download apps from the official store and done. But once you can get the same software at 30% cheaper directly from the developer, rather than Apple, I suspect many of you will while complaining bitterly here about it as you do.
A. Software is MORE expensive on Windows/Mac with 3rd party stores and payment systems.
B. Android does NOT have a price advantage for software with side loading support.
C. Spotify complained to the EU about the 30% commission in the App Store but 99% of their iOS subscribers turned out to be paying on the internet.
D. Read A-C: software prices are not going to get cheaper on iOS.
Actually EU is one of Apple smaller markets compared to North America and Asia
Much of the EU uses cheap android phones
Actually Apple might just leave the EU because their share is so small there. UK is the biggest market and they are no longer in the EU
say what you will about China or India , they don’t do this retarded shit to Apple
AND
Reading what EU is acting like communists and trying to destroy Apple make me kind of want Putin to destroy Europe …
Wow - you really don't like Europe, do you? And don't really understand what this proposed legislation is about, do you?
For God's Sake - the EU just wants to foster CHOICE ! Why is this so hard to grasp? The US paved the way by breaking up Bell and ordering Microsoft to stop their anticompetitive behavior with IE? Is it so insulting to you that this time it is happening in another part of the world?
The number and the tone of comments from huffy Americans in this forum is absolutely amazing - people who think that milk is produced in bottles, electricity comes from power outlets, that the economy will regulate itself for the best of mankind, and that there's really not much outside of the USA.
Hint: none of this is true!
Siri and Apple Maps suck WATERMELONS outside of your bubble. You probably don't know, because so many US Americans speak at most one language or have never been outside of their country. ½ of the time, Siri gleefully replies "look what I found on the Internet", when I want it to do something a PA should do (and which looks SOOO easy and convenient on Apple's commercials). It is not so helpful if you speak another language, and when you're driving at 130 mph on the highway and have to read on a smartphone what you could have essentially googled.
10+% of POIs on Apple Maps went out of business AGES ago (Google is much, much more up-to-date). Stop telling the rest of the world that "Apple Maps is the best way to explore and navigate the world" - it is NOT! It still isn't - at least outside of the US - even 10 years after it went live. I will decide against the polished eye candy from Apple Maps as long as Google Maps and other apps are more USEFUL.
I am SOOOO glad I can use Google Maps on my iPhone, and I want it to stay that way. And if I get more choice on how to pay, search, navigate or do other stuff with my iPhone, I'll have it!
Yes, I love my iPhone and my iMac. I had a company S6 and a private iPhone 7 and convinced the company that iPhones are more useful, and will save us money in the long run, because I could prove that we have fewer support issues on iOS. I will continue using the Apple App Store because I totally get Apple's point in this matter, and I will buy other Apple products. But I will continue to embrace other apps (like Google Maps) as they work so much better for me than Apple-branded apps which simply aren't as good as the competition.
Google is a US American Company as well - so this is not about "you" against "us", "Americans" against "Europeans" (who should get destroyed by Putin). It's about CHOICE, and allowing each individual to decide for themselves what works best for them. Are you so offended because someone else is advocating a change in terms this time?
Apple leaving the "EU because their share is so small there"? In your dreams. Yes, Europeans like Apple's (or Samsung's) smartphones like the next person in this world. And Apple likes our money. So go to your corner and continue to sulk there while the rest of the world moves on.
BTW, "UK is the biggest market and they are no longer in the EU": you're mixing up "market" with market share. UK population: 67 million. EU population: 448 million.
I agree with much of what you said but it was absolutely wrong headed to go after Microsoft. You could use whatever browser you wanted. If you liked Firefox, then you could use Firefox. Microsoft was not standing in your way. If you decided to stick with IE, then that was your fault. All of these other browsers were free to use. If people were too lazy to try something different then I don't see how that was Microsoft's fault. Just like I don't Think it's google's fault that so many people are using their search engine. I personally think that Bing is better than Google in some ways. But if people are too lazy to try something different or if they just don't care then I don't see how that is Google's fault.
You’d think governing authorities would commend those who stand up for clean, responsible privacy and security protections. It’s actually difficult to make money while doing that. Yet here is apple actually succeeding on all fronts. That is to be commended. You HELP companies like not. Not HINDER them.
You’d think governing authorities would commend those who stand up for clean, responsible privacy and security protections. It’s actually difficult to make money while doing that. Yet here is apple actually succeeding on all fronts. That is to be commended. You HELP companies like not. Not HINDER them.
All this does is expose the corruption in the EU.
You are confusing a company’s technical standards and expertise with their accounting department’s dodgy practices.
Have you ever seen a technical person be an expert in tax avoidance practices or even plain accounting??? Like finding a pink elephant….
Apple just need to offer a EU version of the unsecured phone with warnings and unsecured access to iCloud and other services because Apple cannot secure it. I am sure they can segregate out a section of the data center for these models
and a regular version, with full Apple features and security.
let customers chose. Or will EU not allow that either?
my bet is most people won’t even buy the EU phones
Actually EU is one of Apple smaller markets compared to North America and Asia
Much of the EU uses cheap android phones
Actually Apple might just leave the EU because their share is so small there. UK is the biggest market and they are no longer in the EU
say what you will about China or India , they don’t do this retarded shit to Apple
AND
Reading what EU is acting like communists and trying to destroy Apple make me kind of want Putin to destroy Europe …
Wow - you really don't like Europe, do you? And don't really understand what this proposed legislation is about, do you?
For God's Sake - the EU just wants to foster CHOICE ! Why is this so hard to grasp? The US paved the way by breaking up Bell and ordering Microsoft to stop their anticompetitive behavior with IE? Is it so insulting to you that this time it is happening in another part of the world?
The number and the tone of comments from huffy Americans in this forum is absolutely amazing - people who think that milk is produced in bottles, electricity comes from power outlets, that the economy will regulate itself for the best of mankind, and that there's really not much outside of the USA.
Hint: none of this is true!
Siri and Apple Maps suck WATERMELONS outside of your bubble. You probably don't know, because so many US Americans speak at most one language or have never been outside of their country. ½ of the time, Siri gleefully replies "look what I found on the Internet", when I want it to do something a PA should do (and which looks SOOO easy and convenient on Apple's commercials). It is not so helpful if you speak another language, and when you're driving at 130 mph on the highway and have to read on a smartphone what you could have essentially googled.
10+% of POIs on Apple Maps went out of business AGES ago (Google is much, much more up-to-date). Stop telling the rest of the world that "Apple Maps is the best way to explore and navigate the world" - it is NOT! It still isn't - at least outside of the US - even 10 years after it went live. I will decide against the polished eye candy from Apple Maps as long as Google Maps and other apps are more USEFUL.
I am SOOOO glad I can use Google Maps on my iPhone, and I want it to stay that way. And if I get more choice on how to pay, search, navigate or do other stuff with my iPhone, I'll have it!
Yes, I love my iPhone and my iMac. I had a company S6 and a private iPhone 7 and convinced the company that iPhones are more useful, and will save us money in the long run, because I could prove that we have fewer support issues on iOS. I will continue using the Apple App Store because I totally get Apple's point in this matter, and I will buy other Apple products. But I will continue to embrace other apps (like Google Maps) as they work so much better for me than Apple-branded apps which simply aren't as good as the competition.
Google is a US American Company as well - so this is not about "you" against "us", "Americans" against "Europeans" (who should get destroyed by Putin). It's about CHOICE, and allowing each individual to decide for themselves what works best for them. Are you so offended because someone else is advocating a change in terms this time?
Apple leaving the "EU because their share is so small there"? In your dreams. Yes, Europeans like Apple's (or Samsung's) smartphones like the next person in this world. And Apple likes our money. So go to your corner and continue to sulk there while the rest of the world moves on.
BTW, "UK is the biggest market and they are no longer in the EU": you're mixing up "market" with market share. UK population: 67 million. EU population: 448 million.
I agree with much of what you said but it was absolutely wrong headed to go after Microsoft. You could use whatever browser you wanted. If you liked Firefox, then you could use Firefox. Microsoft was not standing in your way. If you decided to stick with IE, then that was your fault. All of these other browsers were free to use. If people were too lazy to try something different then I don't see how that was Microsoft's fault. Just like I don't Think it's google's fault that so many people are using their search engine. I personally think that Bing is better than Google in some ways. But if people are too lazy to try something different or if they just don't care then I don't see how that is Google's fault.
It wasn't as simple as that. Through IE, Microsoft was introducing non-standard code for web developers and encouraging them to use it.
Anyone, hitting a page with that code through a non-IE browser would not be getting the best experience.
You’d think governing authorities would commend those who stand up for clean, responsible privacy and security protections. It’s actually difficult to make money while doing that. Yet here is apple actually succeeding on all fronts. That is to be commended. You HELP companies like not. Not HINDER them.
All this does is expose the corruption in the EU.
You are confusing a company’s technical standards and expertise with their accounting department’s dodgy practices.
Have you ever seen a technical person be an expert in tax avoidance practices or even plain accounting??? Like finding a pink elephant….
You’d be incorrect on that. It’s not “dodgy” to charge a fee for your products and/or services. That’s good business. Apple created a store. If you want to sell your products at their store, you have your items stocked on their shelves. There is a commission for that, Just like any other store.
You want to have your wares sold at Barnes & Noble? Walmart, etc? You pay. It’s good business.
Apple spent money to build this. They earned the right to take s commission. People want to partner because being on Apples platforms sells better than others. That’s also a worthy reason to charge.
But apple doesn’t leave their customers open to whatever anyone wants to do. You go through apples checkout system - again just like any other store.
Cool. The pressure is on. Maybe apple will now contemplate paying its fair share in taxes to European countries it operates in to make this bill more palatable. When you steal from the hand that feeds you time after time again something like this was inevitable and it makes perfect sense that google and amazon are next.
Do you mean that EU wants to steal from Apple which feeds EU?
EU has the thing that apple needs: customers with the cash and access to financial instruments to purchase and keep purchasing their products. But the EU gets a rotten deal because digital services are taxed elsewhere if at all and way bellow actual value. Apple has been very naughty (polite way of saying that they are stealing) and refused to pay fair taxes.
I think this is a shakedown. Pay us what you owe or else thing. What is disconcerting is that the EU has fallen to the level of the likes of apple/google/samsung to get what it wants.
I don't think you understand what a "shakedown" is, because it has nothing to do with getting paid what you're owed.
I'd rather want the EU to force Apple to make their batteries easily replaceable and more of their components user- upgradeable, like SSDs. Desposable electronics are not in line with their pretended environmental standards and should no longer be allowed. Many of them end up in landfills which is a total shame.
Cool. The pressure is on. Maybe apple will now contemplate paying its fair share in taxes to European countries it operates in to make this bill more palatable. When you steal from the hand that feeds you time after time again something like this was inevitable and it makes perfect sense that google and amazon are next.
Playing fair? They don’t have to operate a App Store at all. The losers will be the independent developers that are not billion or trillion dollar companies. The winners will be the ones that started this. Less than 10 percent of their revenue comes from the App Store but they want to undermine Apple to get that 10 percent too as well as be able to steal developers or their customers by removing Apple from the equation.
Apple should recommend antitrust actions against conspiring to illegally fix markets by purposely lying to government agencies to instigate false allegation for commercial and financial gain.
I am SOOOO glad I can use Google Maps on my iPhone, and I want it to stay that way. And if I get more choice on how to pay, search, navigate or do other stuff with my iPhone, I'll have it! … But I will continue to embrace other apps (like Google Maps) as they work so much better for me than Apple-branded apps which simply aren't as good as the competition.
I think you’re missing an important point. Why shouldn’t Apple, or anyone, be allowed to make a product which you consider crappy? Why should the government be allowed to force companies to make their product in a way the government believes is good when there is no health or safety issue?
The way a market thrives is through accepting and promoting the reality that you are welcome to buy a different product or develop your own. Any other approach will eventually stifle the market, guaranteed.
I am SOOOO glad I can use Google Maps on my iPhone, and I want it to stay that way. And if I get more choice on how to pay, search, navigate or do other stuff with my iPhone, I'll have it! … But I will continue to embrace other apps (like Google Maps) as they work so much better for me than Apple-branded apps which simply aren't as good as the competition.
I think you’re missing an important point. Why shouldn’t Apple, or anyone, be allowed to make a product which you consider crappy? Why should the government be allowed to force companies to make their product in a way the government believes is good when there is no health or safety issue?
The way a market thrives is through accepting and promoting the reality that you are welcome to buy a different product or develop your own. Any other approach will eventually stifle the market, guaranteed.
Look up „antitrust laws“ at your leisure, and find out why they exist.
Their main purpose is to prevent companies from amassing too much power and using it to — stifle the market.
Not taking a stand on this EU vs Apple issue. Merely pointing out that your argument completely misses that government regulations aren’t just about „health or safety issues“, but also about enabling a free market with real chances at competition.
Similar laws exist in the US, btw, and are enforced there on a regular basis. You just don’t read about them on tech news sites.
You’d think governing authorities would commend those who stand up for clean, responsible privacy and security protections. It’s actually difficult to make money while doing that. Yet here is apple actually succeeding on all fronts. That is to be commended. You HELP companies like not. Not HINDER them.
All this does is expose the corruption in the EU.
You are confusing a company’s technical standards and expertise with their accounting department’s dodgy practices.
Have you ever seen a technical person be an expert in tax avoidance practices or even plain accounting??? Like finding a pink elephant….
You’d be incorrect on that. It’s not “dodgy” to charge a fee for your products and/or services. That’s good business. Apple created a store. If you want to sell your products at their store, you have your items stocked on their shelves. There is a commission for that, Just like any other store.
You want to have your wares sold at Barnes & Noble? Walmart, etc? You pay. It’s good business.
Apple spent money to build this. They earned the right to take s commission. People want to partner because being on Apples platforms sells better than others. That’s also a worthy reason to charge.
But apple doesn’t leave their customers open to whatever anyone wants to do. You go through apples checkout system - again just like any other store.
You’re looking to put lipstick on a pig but in the process you are absolutely right in that apple created the app store and the underlying tech and has every right under the sun to charge an arm and a leg for the privilege of anyone using it. Well the funny thing is that the societies apple operate in are quite similar to the app ecosystem, if you will, in that the government's that fostered them and curate them, and spent so much money on them, that by the way allow apple to operate in them, want their cut in way of taxes.
whats dodgy is that apple is cheating the dealer at the casino. As they say in life there are only two certainties… death and taxes
Apple would be better off leaving all EU countries.
Sure understand the sentiments behind such a statement but you do realise that apple would never ever even consider it? Right? You do know that the European market is larger than the US market in most metrics? Yes?
It would be ironic to me if Apple complains about this, because they are perfectly happy bending over backwards to appease China and Russia. If Apple doesn’t want to follow the rules in the EU, but they’re ok doing even worse in China and Russia, that would speak volumes to me.
Ah the mythical Apple “monopoly”. Just how many smartphones are available for EU residents to choose from? You don’t like Siri? Buy a different phone. Fixed it for you.
I am SOOOO glad I can use Google Maps on my iPhone, and I want it to stay that way. And if I get more choice on how to pay, search, navigate or do other stuff with my iPhone, I'll have it! … But I will continue to embrace other apps (like Google Maps) as they work so much better for me than Apple-branded apps which simply aren't as good as the competition.
I think you’re missing an important point. Why shouldn’t Apple, or anyone, be allowed to make a product which you consider crappy? Why should the government be allowed to force companies to make their product in a way the government believes is good when there is no health or safety issue?
The way a market thrives is through accepting and promoting the reality that you are welcome to buy a different product or develop your own. Any other approach will eventually stifle the market, guaranteed.
Hi, Georgie, with all due respect, I think YOU are missing the point of the legislation, and that you don't understand that some rules are needed in order for a market to work: The EU does NOT want to dictate how Apple should develop their products or prevent them from releasing inferior products. Apple is welcome to release what they want, as long as it's legally compliant AND they don't FORCE customers to use it just because they use another product from them. BTW - I was coming on a bit strong when I said Apple Maps and Siri are crappy. They're nice, but - let's face it - they probably work better in San Francisco than in the rest of the world.
Just because I buy the iPhone product should not automatically imply that I MUST also choose the Apple Maps product, that I cannot use anything else but the Siri product, pay via Apple, get my apps from a single (Apple) source, send texts only to iPhone users, use only Safari, etc. etc.. Most of these things are already possible, so one of the biggest remaining problems here is that Apple could be required to review its App Store policies. That discussion is anything but new - even in the US. So I don't understand why most people here are getting so worked up.
..."welcome to buy a different product or develop your own". Congratulations - you've stated pretty much what the EU wants. Except that it should work like this even if it isn't in Appe's interest. It is difficult for me to grasp that you put forward the arguments that govern the EU initiative, but that you apply them to only one perspective. I guess you see the entire Apple ecosystem as "the product", and say "take the bundle or leave it", whereas many people (including many Americans) want to be able to customize the ecosystem - even in ways that Apple doesn't like. Maybe some of the initiatives don't make a lot of sense or are unreasonable? E.g. I don't see WhatsApp, iMessage and SMS/MMS become interoperable any time soon.
But I suspect that many of you are getting worked up over the fact that a FOREIGN legislative body wants to create a level playing field for all companies that want to be active in Europe, which is an opinion that I would expect from an orange-skinned politician, not the informed US public. I say that because similar initiatives are being contemplated by your own legislative bodies, and many Corporate practises are being challenged even in North America. Go watch what (US American) Louis Rossman has to say about the "Right to Repair" a MacBook or an iPhone. I'm not even mentioning Epic or Meta vs. Apple, because those 2 have their own hidden agendas. No American would go to Rossman and tell him "well, if Apple wants to dry up your business, you have to lie down and let them, because otherwise you'll stifle the market. You're welcome to create your own locked-down JPhone, repair Android phones, or do dishwashers instead".
As I've said in other posts - Apple wouldn't be in the European market if it weren't profitable for them. It will continue to be profitable for them. But I also think it's good that some entity sets the stage for companies and consumers to interact fairly.
Comments
B. Android does NOT have a price advantage for software with side loading support.
C. Spotify complained to the EU about the 30% commission in the App Store but 99% of their iOS subscribers turned out to be paying on the internet.
D. Read A-C: software prices are not going to get cheaper on iOS.
Apple just need to offer a EU version of the unsecured phone with warnings and unsecured access to iCloud and other services because Apple cannot secure it. I am sure they can segregate out a section of the data center for these models
and a regular version, with full Apple
features and security.
let customers chose. Or will EU not allow that either?
my bet is most people won’t even buy the EU phones
Anyone, hitting a page with that code through a non-IE browser would not be getting the best experience.
whats dodgy is that apple is cheating the dealer at the casino. As they say in life there are only two certainties… death and taxes
The EU does NOT want to dictate how Apple should develop their products or prevent them from releasing inferior products. Apple is welcome to release what they want, as long as it's legally compliant AND they don't FORCE customers to use it just because they use another product from them.
BTW - I was coming on a bit strong when I said Apple Maps and Siri are crappy. They're nice, but - let's face it - they probably work better in San Francisco than in the rest of the world.
Just because I buy the iPhone product should not automatically imply that I MUST also choose the Apple Maps product, that I cannot use anything else but the Siri product, pay via Apple, get my apps from a single (Apple) source, send texts only to iPhone users, use only Safari, etc. etc.. Most of these things are already possible, so one of the biggest remaining problems here is that Apple could be required to review its App Store policies. That discussion is anything but new - even in the US. So I don't understand why most people here are getting so worked up.
..."welcome to buy a different product or develop your own". Congratulations - you've stated pretty much what the EU wants. Except that it should work like this even if it isn't in Appe's interest. It is difficult for me to grasp that you put forward the arguments that govern the EU initiative, but that you apply them to only one perspective. I guess you see the entire Apple ecosystem as "the product", and say "take the bundle or leave it", whereas many people (including many Americans) want to be able to customize the ecosystem - even in ways that Apple doesn't like. Maybe some of the initiatives don't make a lot of sense or are unreasonable? E.g. I don't see WhatsApp, iMessage and SMS/MMS become interoperable any time soon.
But I suspect that many of you are getting worked up over the fact that a FOREIGN legislative body wants to create a level playing field for all companies that want to be active in Europe, which is an opinion that I would expect from an orange-skinned politician, not the informed US public.
I say that because similar initiatives are being contemplated by your own legislative bodies, and many Corporate practises are being challenged even in North America. Go watch what (US American) Louis Rossman has to say about the "Right to Repair" a MacBook or an iPhone. I'm not even mentioning Epic or Meta vs. Apple, because those 2 have their own hidden agendas. No American would go to Rossman and tell him "well, if Apple wants to dry up your business, you have to lie down and let them, because otherwise you'll stifle the market. You're welcome to create your own locked-down JPhone, repair Android phones, or do dishwashers instead".
As I've said in other posts - Apple wouldn't be in the European market if it weren't profitable for them. It will continue to be profitable for them. But I also think it's good that some entity sets the stage for companies and consumers to interact fairly.