Apple and Google protest against Australia's proposed antitrust reforms

Posted:
in General Discussion
Apple has formally told Australian authorities that it has "serious concerns" with proposed App Store antitrust conclusions, while Google says they could cause "unintended harm."




Following its examination of app store policies, and then considering legislation to open up those stores, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission issued a discussion paper on the topic. That ACCC paper was published in February, and while Apple and Google's responses were filed in early April, they have only now been publicly revealed.

Apple says its own "serious concerns about the implementation of [proposed] regulatory reforms," include how it believes the ACCC is trying to reform issue that do not exist.

"[Some] reforms are directed at addressing hypothetical (rather than existing) problems insofar as conduct attributable to Apple is concerned," says Apple's full filing. "[The] real-world market outcomes which will result from the proposed 'reforms' relevant to Apple, if they are implemented in the form proposed, would reduce incentives for dynamic firms like Apple to innovate and develop new and differentiated products..."

The filing further says these reforms "would force Apple to redesign the iPhone" in ways that would "ultimately benefit only... a handful of powerful developers whose primary goal is to remove the [App Store's] protections for consumers."

"Apple is puzzled that the competition and consumer protection agency would prioritize purported competition concerns which lack cogent evidence of harm, over clear and present severe damage to users that they experience every day," it continues.

Google's full filing says that it supports the ACCC's vision of protecting consumers, while encouraging innovation. However, it concurs with Apple about how the proposals cover "conduct that is merely speculated as a theoretical possibility."

"Any new regulatory framework should only seek to tackle and prevent unambiguous
harm arising from a lack of competition," says Google. "Any new framework should focus on addressing only types of conduct that can be shown to be unambiguously harmful, and which are not capable of being addressed by existing laws."

Epic Games has also filed a submission regarding the ACCC's proposals, and it backs the regulator's plans. Forcing Apple and Google to allow alternative app stores would result in "a more open ecosystem that gives consumers and developers better choice and value," says Epic.

Microsoft also backs the ACCC in its own full filing. Microsoft says that in its experience, Apple and Google policies "either prevent us entirely from offering competitive cloud game streaming apps to mobile users, or limit services such as the use of alternative in-app purchase payment processing systems."

Australia's non-profit Digital Industry Group Inc (DiGi), however, agrees that the proposals are unnecessary. DiGi lobbies on behalf of Apple, Google, and more, and says in its full submission that the proposals "would lack the depth, breadth and clarity to be suitably comprehensive."

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission is expected to make a recommendation to government at the end of September 2022.

Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 12
    kelemorkelemor Posts: 29member
    Hey Microsoft you could always make a windows phon…….yeah never mind 
    foregoneconclusionrob53JaiOh81watto_cobraFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 2 of 12
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Wait, what? I thought there were already alternative app stores for Android. What did I miss here?
    watto_cobraFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 3 of 12
    Microsoft and Epic are dominant players on desktop/console for gaming and want to extend that dominance to mobile. End of story. The fact that mobile gaming became so popular (with revenue that now exceeds desktop/console gaming) without Microsoft or Epic having that much involvement should be viewed as a competitive success story. Instead, governments around the world seem to be rushing to agree with Microsoft/Epic that they need to dominate every platform in order for "competition" to exist. 
    Alex1Nwatto_cobraFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 4 of 12
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,259member
    It’s Apple’s products and ecosystem. All Australia is doing is trying to force Apple to open everything up so the Australian government and military can dump whatever software they want onto Apple’s products for free and could care less what it does to consumers. Why doesn’t the Australian government simply create their own phone and (try to) force every citizen to use it?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 12
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,774member
    rob53 said:
    It’s Apple’s products and ecosystem. All Australia is doing is trying to force Apple to open everything up so the Australian government and military can dump whatever software they want onto Apple’s products for free and could care less what it does to consumers. Why doesn’t the Australian government simply create their own phone and (try to) force every citizen to use it?
    It can't be Apple's ecosystem if third parties are involved. It isn't actually a closed ecosystem precisely because of that. If it were, then everything would be first party. It isn't. 

    There are rules and regulations to to abide by. 

    Apple has the choice to adapt to any obligations or face the consequences. 

    There is nothing in what it has stated that holds water against what they are potentially on the hook for. 
    muthuk_vanalingamFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 6 of 12
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,259member
    avon b7 said:
    rob53 said:
    It’s Apple’s products and ecosystem. All Australia is doing is trying to force Apple to open everything up so the Australian government and military can dump whatever software they want onto Apple’s products for free and could care less what it does to consumers. Why doesn’t the Australian government simply create their own phone and (try to) force every citizen to use it?
    It can't be Apple's ecosystem if third parties are involved. It isn't actually a closed ecosystem precisely because of that. If it were, then everything would be first party. It isn't. 

    There are rules and regulations to to abide by. 

    Apple has the choice to adapt to any obligations or face the consequences. 

    There is nothing in what it has stated that holds water against what they are potentially on the hook for. 
    Third parties as in programmers are simply contract programmers using Apple software to create apps running on only Apple hardware and Apple operating systems. Android, Windows and basic Unix/linux software doesn’t run on iOS devices. This makes it an Apple closed ecosystem. As for rules, they are always applied to benefit a select group of people or corporations. Forcing a company to open a product rarely helps everyone and often ruins a product. 
    Alex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 12
    dantheman827dantheman827 Posts: 118member
    Microsoft and Epic are dominant players on desktop/console for gaming and want to extend that dominance to mobile. End of story. The fact that mobile gaming became so popular (with revenue that now exceeds desktop/console gaming) without Microsoft or Epic having that much involvement should be viewed as a competitive success story. Instead, governments around the world seem to be rushing to agree with Microsoft/Epic that they need to dominate every platform in order for "competition" to exist. 
    Microsoft and Epic... dominant players?

    I guess Steam doesn't exist then.
    applguywatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 12
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,774member
    rob53 said:
    avon b7 said:
    rob53 said:
    It’s Apple’s products and ecosystem. All Australia is doing is trying to force Apple to open everything up so the Australian government and military can dump whatever software they want onto Apple’s products for free and could care less what it does to consumers. Why doesn’t the Australian government simply create their own phone and (try to) force every citizen to use it?
    It can't be Apple's ecosystem if third parties are involved. It isn't actually a closed ecosystem precisely because of that. If it were, then everything would be first party. It isn't. 

    There are rules and regulations to to abide by. 

    Apple has the choice to adapt to any obligations or face the consequences. 

    There is nothing in what it has stated that holds water against what they are potentially on the hook for. 
    Third parties as in programmers are simply contract programmers using Apple software to create apps running on only Apple hardware and Apple operating systems. Android, Windows and basic Unix/linux software doesn’t run on iOS devices. This makes it an Apple closed ecosystem. As for rules, they are always applied to benefit a select group of people or corporations. Forcing a company to open a product rarely helps everyone and often ruins a product. 
    It is not only developers. They create products that are provided to the outside world (consumers). 

    Convergence and open standards do not ruin anything. They favour industries and consumers. As does competition. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 9 of 12
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,598member
    Maybe Australia's Competition Commission will succeed in getting Apple and Google to leave Australia, thus increasing consumer choice.
    Alex1Napplguy
  • Reply 10 of 12
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,259member
    avon b7 said:
    rob53 said:
    avon b7 said:
    rob53 said:
    It’s Apple’s products and ecosystem. All Australia is doing is trying to force Apple to open everything up so the Australian government and military can dump whatever software they want onto Apple’s products for free and could care less what it does to consumers. Why doesn’t the Australian government simply create their own phone and (try to) force every citizen to use it?
    It can't be Apple's ecosystem if third parties are involved. It isn't actually a closed ecosystem precisely because of that. If it were, then everything would be first party. It isn't. 

    There are rules and regulations to to abide by. 

    Apple has the choice to adapt to any obligations or face the consequences. 

    There is nothing in what it has stated that holds water against what they are potentially on the hook for. 
    Third parties as in programmers are simply contract programmers using Apple software to create apps running on only Apple hardware and Apple operating systems. Android, Windows and basic Unix/linux software doesn’t run on iOS devices. This makes it an Apple closed ecosystem. As for rules, they are always applied to benefit a select group of people or corporations. Forcing a company to open a product rarely helps everyone and often ruins a product. 
    It is not only developers. They create products that are provided to the outside world (consumers). 

    Convergence and open standards do not ruin anything. They favour industries and consumers. As does competition. 
    What competition are you talking about? There’s android phones, that’s the competition. If you’re trying to say Apple needs to open up the iPhone to run other operations systems as competition, sorry, I don’t buy this. Consumers buy Apple devices because they like how they work. Apple is not required to change their products to satisfy a small amount of developers and consumers. They can buy a different phone. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 12
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,352member
    rob53 said:
    It’s Apple’s products and ecosystem. All Australia is doing is trying to force Apple to open everything up so the Australian government and military can dump whatever software they want onto Apple’s products for free and could care less what it does to consumers. Why doesn’t the Australian government simply create their own phone and (try to) force every citizen to use it?
    Oh no... after the debacle* of the CovidSAFE app the government paid a mate to make..... there is no swearword strong enough to express how unenthusiastic I'd be to even on the same network as a government OS on any device.

    *mostly didn't work because they had to go with central data collection in a massive honey pot.

    Might be time to point out to the ACCC the market has means (ie Webapps) they have chosen not to use.
    watto_cobraFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 12 of 12
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,774member
    rob53 said:
    avon b7 said:
    rob53 said:
    avon b7 said:
    rob53 said:
    It’s Apple’s products and ecosystem. All Australia is doing is trying to force Apple to open everything up so the Australian government and military can dump whatever software they want onto Apple’s products for free and could care less what it does to consumers. Why doesn’t the Australian government simply create their own phone and (try to) force every citizen to use it?
    It can't be Apple's ecosystem if third parties are involved. It isn't actually a closed ecosystem precisely because of that. If it were, then everything would be first party. It isn't. 

    There are rules and regulations to to abide by. 

    Apple has the choice to adapt to any obligations or face the consequences. 

    There is nothing in what it has stated that holds water against what they are potentially on the hook for. 
    Third parties as in programmers are simply contract programmers using Apple software to create apps running on only Apple hardware and Apple operating systems. Android, Windows and basic Unix/linux software doesn’t run on iOS devices. This makes it an Apple closed ecosystem. As for rules, they are always applied to benefit a select group of people or corporations. Forcing a company to open a product rarely helps everyone and often ruins a product. 
    It is not only developers. They create products that are provided to the outside world (consumers). 

    Convergence and open standards do not ruin anything. They favour industries and consumers. As does competition. 
    What competition are you talking about? There’s android phones, that’s the competition. If you’re trying to say Apple needs to open up the iPhone to run other operations systems as competition, sorry, I don’t buy this. Consumers buy Apple devices because they like how they work. Apple is not required to change their products to satisfy a small amount of developers and consumers. They can buy a different phone. 
    I'm talking about the same competition numerous governments around the world are taking issue with. 

    Android or iPhones are not 'competion' but I'm not promoting the idea of forced alternative operating systems either.


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