Apple's 2023 CarPlay is an Apple Car preview - and is scaring Detroit

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  • Reply 21 of 39
    I wish Apple bought Aptera and made a version of that solar car, with this CarPlay integration and high level autonomy, as their first Apple Car. They could sell it for 2x what Aptera is quoting in their preorders and still not meet the demand given Apple’s marketing reach and brand cache.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 39
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    emcnair said:
    Beats said:
    jetpilot said:
    Has anyone yet considered the possibility that this new CarPlay IS the "apple car" project?

    The visuals are indeed beautiful and Apple-like but I highly doubt Apple spent almost a decade and billions of dollars and thousands of employees on this. At most maybe they canceled the Car and distributed the remains as CarPlay.

    emcnair said:
    jetpilot said:
    Has anyone yet considered the possibility that this new CarPlay IS the "apple car" project?
    I was thinking the same thing. Apple could focus on the digital user experience. Let car manufacturers focus on the vehicle and the driving experience. 
    This only sounds good in theory. Apple likes to control the hardware so the software works optimally and they own the hardware.  The problem with letting the car manufacturers deal with the hardware is that no one is stopping Google/Samsung/Amazon from ripping off Apple and car manufacturers running with it.
    A valid point, which I won't argue against. However, I will add that maybe Apple has concluded that building a car might not generate enough revenue to justify the expense. Maybe they will just sell  the automotive manufacturer a “little black box” that contains the Apple-designed “brain” that runs the vehicle. Perhaps it's nothing more than an upgrade item for consumers. I know it's very unlikely, but something to contemplate. I wouldn’t mind picking my car, than selecting an Apple CarOS to interact with. 

    It makes no sense Apple spent that much time and money just for this blip on WWDC. Now did they abandon the hardware and make the software available to manufacturers? That would make more sense.

    Apple does need exclusivity to ward off piggybacking like Samsung did to ApplePay. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 39
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    No automaker is going to give apple that much control over their vehicle. Weve already seen that with the limited capabilities of CarPlay. In order to gain more control over internal car systems, automakers will need to give up a LOT of proprietary information, and most likely abandon any other potential interfaces like Google or Microsoft. I really don’t see them wanting to alienate any potential customers.

     This full display preview we’re seeing is most likely more display space that automakers are willing to work with, but highly doubtful that any systems that compromise their own safety and reputation are going to happen… unless apple were to merge with said automaker… yeah i don’t see that happening either.


    The problem is Google/Samsung/Microsoft can just copy the software 99% and give it away for free. That’s the problem with western IP laws.

    This is why I’m rooting for an Apple Car. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 39
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,552member
    jetpilot said:
    Has anyone yet considered the possibility that this new CarPlay IS the "apple car" project?
    Thousands of Apple employees didn’t work for 9 years just for this. 
    Beatswatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 39
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,552member
    Why build a car when any car can be "your" car?
    Any rental car/autonomous vehicle would automagically customize to your preferences. The paradigm of 'owning' a car will change to use case rental for many if not most people.
    You don’t seem familiar with how Apple works, get serious. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 39
    gnapiergnapier Posts: 6member
    jetpilot said:
    Has anyone yet considered the possibility that this new CarPlay IS the "apple car" project?

    Remember when everyone thought the “Apple TV” was going to be a physical TV? Turns out to have been the important bits of the TV; Apple left the low margin stuff to the manufacturers while also offering a desirable addition that improved the experience for the user and that the manufacturers  wanted / needed to remain competitive.

    Same play here.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 39
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,815member
    Beats said:
    No automaker is going to give apple that much control over their vehicle. Weve already seen that with the limited capabilities of CarPlay. In order to gain more control over internal car systems, automakers will need to give up a LOT of proprietary information, and most likely abandon any other potential interfaces like Google or Microsoft. I really don’t see them wanting to alienate any potential customers.

     This full display preview we’re seeing is most likely more display space that automakers are willing to work with, but highly doubtful that any systems that compromise their own safety and reputation are going to happen… unless apple were to merge with said automaker… yeah i don’t see that happening either.


    The problem is Google/Samsung/Microsoft can just copy the software 99% and give it away for free. That’s the problem with western IP laws.

    This is why I’m rooting for an Apple Car. 
    That is impossible. 

    There are over one hundred microcontrollers on modern cars. Most of them from different manufacturers. It's one of the biggest hurdles for carmakers in getting updates out to existing models. Getting everything tested and safe is a very, very complex process.

    If you add onto that the notion of autonomous driving (whichever level) you are talking about yet more complexity due to the 'sensing' capability of the sensors and the need for real-time, high bandwidth, low latency, concurrent processing/transmission. AI is going to play a huge role in everything especially as a result of 'interpretation'. That is only on the side of the car itself. On the other side you have the communication requirements with other vehicles and traffic infrastructure and the authorities.

    The result is a mini datacenter/server system sitting in your car alongside some serious computing power. The upshot of all that means the individual nature of all those microcontrollers must change and 'control' needs to be centralised to a server-like system partioned into virtual machines with a hypervisor overseeing everything.

    Who do you think has the upper hand in all that back-end technology? Apple isn't at the top of that list in terms of hardware or software. 

    Competitors are already shipping many of the initial implementations of what I have described. It is estimated that 2030 may be the year when most of it is shipping so there is still a way to go.

    The front end user facing systems will probably end up looking rather similar and that is just the nature of how things go. Those systems are already out there and manufacturers will pluck ideas from each other just like they do today.

    Don't you remember how long it took for Mac users to get 'sticky' menus?
    edited June 2022 rundhviddarkvaderAlex1N
  • Reply 28 of 39
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,552member
    gnapier said:
    jetpilot said:
    Has anyone yet considered the possibility that this new CarPlay IS the "apple car" project?

    Remember when everyone thought the “Apple TV” was going to be a physical TV? Turns out to have been the important bits of the TV; Apple left the low margin stuff to the manufacturers while also offering a desirable addition that improved the experience for the user and that the manufacturers  wanted / needed to remain competitive.

    Same play here.

    Because a TV doesn’t offer much margin for hardware innovation. A car does. 
    Beatswatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 39
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,866moderator
    Why build a car when any car can be "your" car?
    Any rental car/autonomous vehicle would automagically customize to your preferences. The paradigm of 'owning' a car will change to use case rental for many if not most people.
    My thought exactly.  Apple offering this CarOS could be a way for Apple and/or rental fleets to source vehicles from manufacturers.  Manufacturers could build basic vehicles designed around the Apple CarOS for sale to rental fleets.  The cost to manufacture such cars might be reduced by Apple providing all the capabilities of CarOS, possibly along with some tools for implementing autonomous capabilities. 

    Then Apple could create a dispatch platform to manage a dynamic fleet of autonomous taxis created from the rental fleets.  This would allow Hertz, et al to both rent cars directly as they do today and to also utilize their fleet by submitting part of their inventory to the Apple-dispatched taxi fleet.  This would allow them flexibility in maximizing utilization of their fleets while providing optimized user experiences to rental customers and taxi riders, assuming they carry iPhones.  

    Apple would then take a piece of each taxi fare fir providing dispatch, routing and the U/X.  
    edited June 2022 watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 39
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,866moderator
    Electric Vehicles don't need a Rev Counter in the display. A Battery discharge/charge meter would be the replacement for it.

    I have CarPlay on my 2019 I-Pace and frankly... it sucks. I've seen it on a BMW 3 series and it is the same. Apple will have a lot of work to do to make it play with all these very different car data systems and so far I'm very reluctant to even consider setting it up when I change my car at the end of the year.
    An abstraction layer can be programmed fir each manufacturer’s data system.  This is not a difficult project and can be handled by the manufacturers’ software team given Apple’s set of APIs.  Once constructed it can be maintained as changes are made to the manufacturers’ data systems or Apple’s APIs.  But essentially it’s a build once affair for each manufacturer.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 39
    darkvaderdarkvader Posts: 1,146member
    jetpilot said:
    Has anyone yet considered the possibility that this new CarPlay IS the "apple car" project?

    In the sense that CarPlay is all that Apple will ever actually ship?  Absolutely.  There won't be a car within the next decade, and probably not ever.

    In the sense that they were never actually attempting anything else?  LOL, no.  While Apple's California self-driving test miles are an absolute joke compared to companies that are serious about self-driving cars, they are also far too high for a company that just wants to take over the dashboard.  The car is one of Apple's most massive development failures.

    Remember this oldie?

    At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated, "If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon."

    In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating: If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:

    1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.

    2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.

    3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason.  You would have to pull to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue.

    For some reason you would simply accept this.

    4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.

    5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would run on only five percent of the roads.

    6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation" warning light.

    7. The airbag system would ask "Are you sure?" before deploying.

    8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.

    9. Every time a new car was introduced car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.

    10. You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off."

    Computer companies aren't car companies.

    (And at least Ford had the good sense to label the button on my car Start/Stop.  Of course they also put the word "Engine" on it in front of Start/Stop, and my car being a plug-in hybrid that is distinctly what that particular button does not actually do.)
    edited June 2022 Beats
  • Reply 32 of 39
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    No automaker is going to give apple that much control over their vehicle. Weve already seen that with the limited capabilities of CarPlay. In order to gain more control over internal car systems, automakers will need to give up a LOT of proprietary information, and most likely abandon any other potential interfaces like Google or Microsoft. I really don’t see them wanting to alienate any potential customers.

     This full display preview we’re seeing is most likely more display space that automakers are willing to work with, but highly doubtful that any systems that compromise their own safety and reputation are going to happen… unless apple were to merge with said automaker… yeah i don’t see that happening either.


    The problem is Google/Samsung/Microsoft can just copy the software 99% and give it away for free. That’s the problem with western IP laws.

    This is why I’m rooting for an Apple Car. 
    That is impossible. 

    There are over one hundred microcontrollers on modern cars. Most of them from different manufacturers. It's one of the biggest hurdles for carmakers in getting updates out to existing models. Getting everything tested and safe is a very, very complex process.

    If you add onto that the notion of autonomous driving (whichever level) you are talking about yet more complexity due to the 'sensing' capability of the sensors and the need for real-time, high bandwidth, low latency, concurrent processing/transmission. AI is going to play a huge role in everything especially as a result of 'interpretation'. That is only on the side of the car itself. On the other side you have the communication requirements with other vehicles and traffic infrastructure and the authorities.

    The result is a mini datacenter/server system sitting in your car alongside some serious computing power. The upshot of all that means the individual nature of all those microcontrollers must change and 'control' needs to be centralised to a server-like system partioned into virtual machines with a hypervisor overseeing everything.

    Who do you think has the upper hand in all that back-end technology? Apple isn't at the top of that list in terms of hardware or software. 

    Competitors are already shipping many of the initial implementations of what I have described. It is estimated that 2030 may be the year when most of it is shipping so there is still a way to go.

    The front end user facing systems will probably end up looking rather similar and that is just the nature of how things go. Those systems are already out there and manufacturers will pluck ideas from each other just like they do today.

    Don't you remember how long it took for Mac users to get 'sticky' menus?

    Are you responding to the wrong comment? What is “impossible”? Google/Samsung/Microsoft/Huawei just ripping off Apple and distributing the software freely?

    Nothing in your reply makes sense.

    Or are you saying it’s impossible for Apple to develop a Car? Because that’s just ignorant. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 39
    mulasienmulasien Posts: 22member
    No automaker is going to give apple that much control over their vehicle.
    That's up to the free market to decide. Toyota was one of the last stubborn holdouts for adopting CarPlay/Android Auto, trying to push their Entune system instead.

    They finally caved when enough customers never considered buying a Toyota for the last 5 years with no CarPlay/Android Auto option available. Myself included.

    An automaker can desire to control whatever they want, but if their competition is stealing away customers by giving them what they want, they'll eventually cave.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 39
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,815member
    Beats said:
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    No automaker is going to give apple that much control over their vehicle. Weve already seen that with the limited capabilities of CarPlay. In order to gain more control over internal car systems, automakers will need to give up a LOT of proprietary information, and most likely abandon any other potential interfaces like Google or Microsoft. I really don’t see them wanting to alienate any potential customers.

     This full display preview we’re seeing is most likely more display space that automakers are willing to work with, but highly doubtful that any systems that compromise their own safety and reputation are going to happen… unless apple were to merge with said automaker… yeah i don’t see that happening either.


    The problem is Google/Samsung/Microsoft can just copy the software 99% and give it away for free. That’s the problem with western IP laws.

    This is why I’m rooting for an Apple Car. 
    That is impossible. 

    There are over one hundred microcontrollers on modern cars. Most of them from different manufacturers. It's one of the biggest hurdles for carmakers in getting updates out to existing models. Getting everything tested and safe is a very, very complex process.

    If you add onto that the notion of autonomous driving (whichever level) you are talking about yet more complexity due to the 'sensing' capability of the sensors and the need for real-time, high bandwidth, low latency, concurrent processing/transmission. AI is going to play a huge role in everything especially as a result of 'interpretation'. That is only on the side of the car itself. On the other side you have the communication requirements with other vehicles and traffic infrastructure and the authorities.

    The result is a mini datacenter/server system sitting in your car alongside some serious computing power. The upshot of all that means the individual nature of all those microcontrollers must change and 'control' needs to be centralised to a server-like system partioned into virtual machines with a hypervisor overseeing everything.

    Who do you think has the upper hand in all that back-end technology? Apple isn't at the top of that list in terms of hardware or software. 

    Competitors are already shipping many of the initial implementations of what I have described. It is estimated that 2030 may be the year when most of it is shipping so there is still a way to go.

    The front end user facing systems will probably end up looking rather similar and that is just the nature of how things go. Those systems are already out there and manufacturers will pluck ideas from each other just like they do today.

    Don't you remember how long it took for Mac users to get 'sticky' menus?

    Are you responding to the wrong comment? What is “impossible”? Google/Samsung/Microsoft/Huawei just ripping off Apple and distributing the software freely?

    Nothing in your reply makes sense.

    Or are you saying it’s impossible for Apple to develop a Car? Because that’s just ignorant. 
    You said Google et al could just copy the software 99%.

    That's impossible. Only Apple will know what's in its sauce. The closely guarded crown jewels will not be open to anyone to 'copy' but why would Google want to do that? I'd wager its AI is quite mature given the processing power and data available and there lies the crux of the matter: data. Lots of data. Something that Google, Amazon, Huawei etc have managed for decades. It is entirely possible that open source software will play an important part too but each company will have there own methods. 

    In interface terms, you will see things developing over time and companies taking ideas from each other.

    A speedometer isn't going to look all that different, in functional terms, from OS to OS.

    Of course digital dashboards and AR HUDs already exist so there are already cues to take from. 
    edited June 2022 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 35 of 39
    netroxnetrox Posts: 1,451member
    jetpilot said:
    Has anyone yet considered the possibility that this new CarPlay IS the "apple car" project?
    Yes, that's what I think as well. 

    It just doesn't make sense for Apple to produce a car. 

    I am seeing the same pattern...  as they made up rumors about Apple TV only to end up as an "interface" for TV's. 

    Same with apple car which is actually just the next generation CarPlay. 


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 39
    No automaker is going to give apple that much control over their vehicle. Weve already seen that with the limited capabilities of CarPlay. In order to gain more control over internal car systems, automakers will need to give up a LOT of proprietary information, and most likely abandon any other potential interfaces like Google or Microsoft. I really don’t see them wanting to alienate any potential customers.

     This full display preview we’re seeing is most likely more display space that automakers are willing to work with, but highly doubtful that any systems that compromise their own safety and reputation are going to happen… unless apple were to merge with said automaker… yeah i don’t see that happening either.
    I tend to agree with you on most of that… there is too much at play here to give any tech company full control of, or full access to the proprietary in-car technologies already developed by the auto manufactures. However, any auto manufacture that does not include compatibility to Apple technologies will do so at their own peril. Today’s customer is more tech savvy than ever before and they know what they want, and if it’s Apple tech, they will buy from manufactures who provide that… The smart move for all the auto manufactures would be to design their systems to accept and work with all viable technologies for such purposes, and it be a dealer installed (at time of purchase) option. Kind of a plug and play like the current line up of TV services are, such as Apple TV, Fire, Hulu, Netflix, etc… where each service will work on almost all TV hardware. Want a Ford - buy it with the Apple technologies… don’t like or want to pay for Apple, then get the “Google Android based system in that same vehicle on that same car lot… just have it installed and configured during the new car prep phase of the transaction… kind of like how the old GM based on star system is… a subscription based service that no one ever wanted, but it was installed regardless of the wants or need of the customer… so its not like it can’t be done… they’ve been doing something similar for years already. Ford has it’s own, as did Dodge/Chrysler, and Toyota, etc…
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 39
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,020member
    I definitely agree it’s going to take a long time to come in to common usage. Even manufacturers who have embraced it, like Kia, are inconsistent with the implementation. My stepmother‘s 2020 K5 has wireless CarPlay. My 2019 optima has wired CarPlay. And my decked out, 2022 Kia carnival has wired but not wireless CarPlay. That thing is like a spaceship …and it still doesn’t support it.  

    Speaking of electric vehicles, we are nowhere near ready from an infrastructure standpoint. We are probably decades away from it. There’s not the generation and recharging capacity to replace the gasoline fleet yet.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 39
    jetpilotjetpilot Posts: 34member
    clemynx said:
    jetpilot said:
    Has anyone yet considered the possibility that this new CarPlay IS the "apple car" project?
    Thousands of Apple employees didn’t work for 9 years just for this. 
    How do you know? You don't work for Apple. Incorporating the new Car Play into every single system of a car and designing it so it works seamlessly across vehicles from numerous manufacturers around the world would take a tremendous effort over an extended period of time from many people with expertise in various areas of the automotive industry. They didn't just cobble this together overnight. As the article states:

    "Apple needs to work hard with automakers to deliver this level of system integration. Never before has CarPlay been able to interface with a car's real-time systems, and that will likely require fine-tuning.

    CarPlay has to be perfect. The average weight of a vehicle is 4,156 pounds, according to a 2020 report from the Environmental Protection Agency. That's a lot more dangerous than rolling out an iOS update that introduces a storage bug."
    edited June 2022 watto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 39
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 2,919member
    Apple may be developing next gen CarPlay to put in Apple branded car as well other manufacturers vehicles for a seamless user experience, long as driver uses iPhone in car. When Apple adds features to iPhone; they work across every car which has next gen CarPlay integrated.
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