RCS is still half-baked, and Apple has no reason to adopt it

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 50
    gatorguy said:
    If there is any issue about which I care less than what color someone's texts are, I can't think of it right now.  A green text does tell me that I shouldn't expect the person with whom I'm messaging won't see certain things, so I can avoid using those features, but other than that, who gives a shjt?

    As for "bullying" over green bubbles versus blue, I'm sorry, but I fail to see how Apple is to blame for the vile behavior of a user of a messaging app.  Address the bullies.
    Perhaps because what you would expect to be a private conversation may not be private after all due to Apple relying on SMS rather than fully-encrypted RCS when communicating cross-platform, or in any other rare situations where iMessage may fail even between two iPhone users. There is no downside to you having RCS as the backup messaging option instead of the old, insecure, and less private SMS. 

    I have never expected, nor will I expect, any conversation over SMS to be private.  Anyone who has that expectation is deluded.
    watto_cobraentropysBart YMplsP
  • Reply 22 of 50
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,388member
    gatorguy said:
    If there is any issue about which I care less than what color someone's texts are, I can't think of it right now.  A green text does tell me that I shouldn't expect the person with whom I'm messaging won't see certain things, so I can avoid using those features, but other than that, who gives a shjt?

    As for "bullying" over green bubbles versus blue, I'm sorry, but I fail to see how Apple is to blame for the vile behavior of a user of a messaging app.  Address the bullies.
    Perhaps because what you would expect to be a private conversation may not be private after all due to Apple relying on SMS rather than fully-encrypted RCS when communicating cross-platform, or in any other rare situations where iMessage may fail even between two iPhone users. There is no downside to you having RCS as the backup messaging option instead of the old, insecure, and less private SMS. 

    I have never expected, nor will I expect, any conversation over SMS to be private.  Anyone who has that expectation is deluded.
    BINGO!! You got it.

    Yet it could be private if Apple adopted Google's E2EE RCS as backup to iMessage instead of SMS.
    DangDavemuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 23 of 50
    btskyybtskyy Posts: 1member
    One gain universally for RCS is high quality photo and video messages. This is the complaint I get most from iphone users. I have them resend via cloud or vis versa, I resend via cloud link.

    This is not a big deal for those that understand this constraint of SMS but is very frustrating, such as with my family, when they blame my message media quality on my phone, when it is the protocol.

    RCS implemention would be less frustrating for both iOS and Android users
    edited July 2022 jcs2305williamlondon
  • Reply 24 of 50
    This is pretty pathetic saying that iPhone users are bullying Android users because their text shows up as green bubbles.

    What a load of cobblers. The reality is that it shows up green because it is an MMS or SMS text. This will be the same for anyone using Android or a Nokia 918 or whatever.

    In fact, if an iPhone user only uses iMessages with SMS then they would show up as a green bubble as well. Hardly a claim of bullying.
    williamlondonJP234Bart Y
  • Reply 25 of 50
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,108member
    iMessage was originally created because the other message systems at the time didn’t support Mac and iPhone hardware very well the same goes for the Apple Watch and Apple Pay both become successful and the crying ensues, when Apple actually gets serious about AAA games watch out for the wailing and crying…..Guaranteed.
    kaushalwilliamlondonlolliverJP234Bart Y
  • Reply 26 of 50
    From what I understand RCS is only end to end encrypted if both users use google messages app. Then how would Apple implementing RCS as a fallback solve this problem. 

    Also end to end encryption doesn’t work form group messages. So it won’t work for group chats involving iMessage fallback and kids that get excluded from group iMessage chats will still be excluded. 

    And don’t forget the spam issues that RCS has to deal
    with. 
    williamlondonlolliverBart Yroundaboutnow
  • Reply 27 of 50
    Here's a link from ArsTechnica.  Provides a little more technical background and history: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/new-google-site-begs-apple-for-mercy-in-messaging-war/
    JP234GG1Bart Y
  • Reply 28 of 50
    If google wants to compete why don’t they create a google messaging app for iOS just like WhatsApp, signal, etc. then you can choose any bubble color
    you like.  
    edited August 2022 Bart Y
  • Reply 29 of 50
    mknelsonmknelson Posts: 1,128member
    Isn't that green bubble graphic backwards? Shouldn't the green be on the left?
  • Reply 30 of 50
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,222member
    gatorguy said:
    If there is any issue about which I care less than what color someone's texts are, I can't think of it right now.  A green text does tell me that I shouldn't expect the person with whom I'm messaging won't see certain things, so I can avoid using those features, but other than that, who gives a shjt?

    As for "bullying" over green bubbles versus blue, I'm sorry, but I fail to see how Apple is to blame for the vile behavior of a user of a messaging app.  Address the bullies.
    Perhaps because what you would expect to be a private conversation may not be private after all due to Apple relying on SMS rather than fully-encrypted RCS when communicating cross-platform, or in any other rare situations where iMessage may fail even between two iPhone users. There is no downside to you having RCS as the backup messaging option instead of the old, insecure, and less private SMS. 
    Apple relying on SMS?
    williamlondon
  • Reply 31 of 50
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,222member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    If there is any issue about which I care less than what color someone's texts are, I can't think of it right now.  A green text does tell me that I shouldn't expect the person with whom I'm messaging won't see certain things, so I can avoid using those features, but other than that, who gives a shjt?

    As for "bullying" over green bubbles versus blue, I'm sorry, but I fail to see how Apple is to blame for the vile behavior of a user of a messaging app.  Address the bullies.
    Perhaps because what you would expect to be a private conversation may not be private after all due to Apple relying on SMS rather than fully-encrypted RCS when communicating cross-platform, or in any other rare situations where iMessage may fail even between two iPhone users. There is no downside to you having RCS as the backup messaging option instead of the old, insecure, and less private SMS. 

    I have never expected, nor will I expect, any conversation over SMS to be private.  Anyone who has that expectation is deluded.
    BINGO!! You got it.

    Yet it could be private if Apple adopted Google's E2EE RCS as backup to iMessage instead of SMS.
    The various forks of RCS used by carriers is quite vulnerable to government orders to access.
    williamlondonGG1
  • Reply 32 of 50
    carnegiecarnegie Posts: 1,078member
    Google's PR campaign with regard to RCS is pretty disingenuous. I'd liken it to a car salesman who, when touting a particular car model, refers to the features and power of a more expensive trim package with a larger engine and refers to the price and fuel efficiency of a less expensive trim package with a smaller engine, all while obscuring the reality that they're referring to different versions of the car - i.e., you can't get all that they're trying to sell you on. You either get the power and the bells and whistles, or you get the fuel efficiency and the lower cost.

    To get the important benefits that RCS offers over SMS, you really have to be using Google's version of it - not some industry standard version that Apple just has to agree to use. For Apple's part, I can understand it saying... no thanks. And for my part, I definitely say... no thanks. I don't want Apple changing the way my iPhone's messaging works such that the text messages I send are - even as a fallback - going through Google's servers. If Apple did that, I'd consider it an abandonment of my interests. It's not what I expect when I buy an iPhone.

    Google isn't trying to PR-war Apple into adopting an industry standard that will allow for better interoperability. It's trying to PR-war Apple into adopting Google's way of doing things so that Google is in a better competitive position and so that Google's a little more involved in the lives and tech of iOS users - whether they want it to be or not. That's fine, Google can seek that. But (1) it should be more honest about what it's asking for and (2) it's hard to fault Apple for refusing to go along.

    As for the green bubble versus blue bubble issue: I get the negative impacts that the obvious visual cue may have on some. But green bubbles don't mean Android user, they mean SMS. There are reasons why iOS users (and Android users, for that matter) would want to know - through clear visual cues - that the messages they are sending or receiving are being delivered through SMS rather than, e.g., through Apple's iMessage service. I wouldn't want to lose that visual cue even if the fallback were RCS rather than SMS.
    lolliverBart YGG1roundaboutnowdanox
  • Reply 33 of 50
    GG1GG1 Posts: 483member
    Here's a link from ArsTechnica.  Provides a little more technical background and history: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/new-google-site-begs-apple-for-mercy-in-messaging-war/
    I was going to reference that article. The one section that caught my attention was this:

    "If you want to implement RCS, you'll need to run the messages through some kind of service, and who provides that server? It will probably be Google. Google bought Jibe, the leading RCS server provider, in 2015."

    Furthermore, Google's RCS API implements end-to-end encryption, but that API is proprietary and not available to third parties, according to the Ars article. The AI article mentions that end-to-end encryption is not part of the RCS protocol (per carrier implementation).
    williamlondonroundaboutnow
  • Reply 34 of 50
    iMessage security is highly overrated. It is nowhere are secure as people think it is.

    In 2016, researchers at Johns Hopkins demonstrated that iMessage messages can be decrypted of they’re intercepted. This is a link to their paper - https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurity16/sec16_paper_garman.pdf. While the attack is difficult to execute, it should never be possible. The research team said that Apple should replace the iMessage protocol with something more secure, like the Signal protocol. https://www.vice.com/en/article/d7y7vk/apple-should-replace-imessage-encryption-researchers-warn

    iMessage does not allow participants to verify one another’s identities and the shared encryption key. The system requires devices to implicitly trust Apple’s servers to distribute user’s public keys. In Signal, you can scan a QR code to verify the encryption key; this prevents man in the middle attacks. See this for more info https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2015/09/09/lets-talk-about-imessage-again/

    iMessage data is also accessible to governments since iCloud backups are not end to end encrypted. In November 2021, Rolling Stone published an FBI document showing that iMessage can reveal more information that most other messengers, link: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/whatsapp-imessage-facebook-apple-fbi-privacy-1261816/ and see this PDF: https://propertyofthepeople.org/document-detail/?doc-id=21114562
    williamlondon
  • Reply 35 of 50
    jimh2 said:
    bossbaby said:
    And the pathetic iMessage still dont have automatic spam filter. I really wish I could install Google message on my iPhone. The most annoying, I kept receiving spam Imessage from random emails. I both have iphone and Android and nope, RCS is not half baked. I use both and rcs has more feature than iMessage imho. Imessage doesnt have enough user base, atleast, outside america. 
    All my friends, with a few exceptions, use iPhones so RCS is of no value to me. I like the colored bubbles telling me who is using what type of phone. It's petty, but also hard to not think those with green bubble are not the "cool kids".
    Delete your account.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 36 of 50
    "My text shows up as green bubbles on your iPhone! We need a law to stop texting monopolies like Apple from doing that! It's so demeaning! I should be allowed to be referred to in the pronoun colour of my choice! Not letting me choose my own colour is racist!"
    who's an edgy boy? You are! That's right! Such an edgy boy! Edgelord Edgy GIF - Edgelord Edgy Or GIFs
    crowleyStrangeDays
  • Reply 37 of 50
    igorskyigorsky Posts: 766member
    Claims of bullying are getting worrisome - in particular, youth cohorts are experiencing mass bullying over green bubbles. Apple is culpable. If they're not going to adopt RCS they need to at least make some changes to iMessage to stop children from having such a visceral thing to respond to.
    Or maybe, you know, stop relying on Apple to do your parenting for you.
  • Reply 38 of 50
    igorskyigorsky Posts: 766member
    At best, your article is misleading. Google has not asked Apple to replace iMessage with RCS. What Google has asked is that Apple replace its texting backup from SMS to RCS. If your article were honest, you would have compared SMS to RCS. But in doing so you would have had to acknowledge that SMS provides absolutely zero advantages over RCS, and there is no reasonable justification for Apple to not make that change. 

    Your Apple fandom is obnoxious. You should probably look up the word integrity. And your editor should definitely not quit their day job. 
    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/new-google-site-begs-apple-for-mercy-in-messaging-war/
    This is article explains the negatives of RCS quite well.  Calm down and read that instead.
    edited August 2022 roundaboutnow
  • Reply 39 of 50
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,907member
    Apple has iMessage.  

    It’s a differentiator - the kind that every company strives for. 

    It’s the best messaging platform by far. You don’t adopt someone else’s lesser product when yours is winning. 

    Of course Google wants apple to make it easier for them to compete. But that’s not Apples job. Apples job is to win and it does it’s job well. 

    There is no “problem.” iMessage is well thought out. iMessage parity is guaranteed with blue text bubbles and other platforms are seen in green - which is an Android branding color (so android peeps can blame Google if their color means something negative to them - or they can blame themselves for buying into android if they need something to blame). The reality is that it’s a way to distinguish what you can and ant expect in a mixed platform chat. It’s wise, not wrong or somehow bad. LOL

    if some people feel bad that their text bubbles are seen in green to iPhone users. Then they should either a) get counseling for being so distraught over a non issue or a) change platforms if it means so much to them. This is like someone complaining at the track meet that their generic shoes seem plain while their opponents Nike shoes are seen as better because they have a swoosh logo. So their answer is for Nike to remove the swoosh logo. Utterly ridiculous. 

    There is nothing to see here. Just another company trying to gain status by tearing a successful rival down. Oldest story in the book. 
    edited August 2022 igorskydanoxtht
  • Reply 40 of 50
    sbdudesbdude Posts: 277member
    So what I glean from all the single-posters, refutations, and articles is that there is no "industry standard" RCS, if there is a "standard" then it's google's and it must be run through google's servers, if I want e2ee if has to be through google's servers, e2ee is only for one-on-one conversations only, and the carriers have forked the hell out of RCS. So tell me, which part of this do I willingly want to be involved in?

    Also, enough with the green chat bubble bullying thing; in the words of Richard Nixon's Head: "Put down your crack pipes and beer bongs and pay attention" to your kids.

    igorskyroundaboutnowtht
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