Apple Car project troubled by management demos and uncertain schedule

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 36
    looplessloopless Posts: 338member
    Apple missed the boat here, all the big traditional manufacturers are producing high quality electric cars and trucks in volume. The F150 is a game changer and the various EV's from Hyundai/KIA , VW etc are all competent enough.And  at the high-end you have Rivian and Lucid. Apple cannot compete anymore. What they could do is make Apple Car Play ubiquitous as a whole car system. Self-driving will never happen outside of highly controlled environments - for example. Mercedes validates self-driving only on specific "freeways" and only on specific sections. Kill the project, it is the Newton of Apple 2022.
    DAalsethanantksundaramelijahg
  • Reply 22 of 36
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,486member
    I am always skeptical when Apple promises things in the ML or AI areas. Remember when Siri was first launched and we were promised conversational interaction from the get go? Yeah, it's still not here. ML and AI is more fitting for Amazon, Google, IBM, or even MS corporate cultures.
    Your skepticism is entirely valid. It's not a criticism of Apple to say that they are a fantastic Product company. That's something they excel at and perform at a level that few other companies in the world can ever hope to attain. Look inside an Apple Store ... there's not a huge variety of products, but the ones that they sell are truly exceptional. 

    So what Apple is not is a fantastic Systems company. They do systems, some pretty well, but not nearly at the same level that they do Products. The other companies you mentioned, like Amazon, Microsoft, Google, and IBM are great systems companies. Amazon does systems at the level that Apple does products, but Amazon's products are not really standouts. They are okay and they help fuel Amazon's systems focus just like Apple's systems like Apple Music and iCloud help promote Apple's products.

    To my earlier point, if Apple approaches their EV initiative from a product perspective they may be able to get something sooner and something that plays to their strengths. Imagine if iPhone was held back while Apple waited to perfect Siri. Not a scenario I'd like to live with. Maybe I'm being overly critical of Apple's systems expertise, but selling a bazillion amazing products and amassing mountains of cash from having done so does not make you a systems expert. It just makes you a fantastically rich and successful products company.
    DAalsethbyronl
  • Reply 23 of 36
    Their heart is just not in it. They just know they can’t milk iPhones forever and need a new cash cow. They decided “we should be into cars” - thats our ticket. And thats pretty much the beginning and end of Tim Cooks vision on that - and the root of their still-born efforts.
    byronlanantksundaramelijahg
  • Reply 24 of 36
    hammeroftruthhammeroftruth Posts: 1,326member
    gatorguy said:
    I wouldn’t put too much stock in a former Uber self-driving engineer’s opinion. Apple’s project may or may not be in trouble, but at least it hasn’t killed anyone like Uber’s has. 

    Maybe that’s why he’s a “former” self-driving engineer. 
    ???

    "The article, based on interviews with 20 people who worked on the project..."

    It's not just a single Uber engineer's observations.
    Never said it was. Just based the fact that a former Uber engineer makes disparaging remarks on a project he probably hasn’t seen, while his former company has hit and killed a pedestrian while testing autonomous driving. Uber had the gall to blame their hardware partner for the accident until they pointed out that Uber cheaped out on the design and left out a few LiDAR sensors that would have prevented such a tragedy. 


  • Reply 25 of 36
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,213member
    Even if no car eventuates, the project is crucially important as phone, and eventually wearables and their services/ ecosphere  interaction with future cars will be all important.  
    sconosciuto
  • Reply 26 of 36
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,552member
    I am always skeptical when Apple promises things in the ML or AI areas. Remember when Siri was first launched and we were promised conversational interaction from the get go? Yeah, it's still not here. ML and AI is more fitting for Amazon, Google, IBM, or even MS corporate cultures.
    Why? None of those companies have AI conversations either. 
  • Reply 27 of 36
    byronlbyronl Posts: 369member
    clemynx said:
    I still don't get that whole AppleCar thing, as in completely lack the phantasy on what Apple might put on the table that makes an Appley impact (like the Apple I, Mac, iPhone did at their time). Just another Tesla clone, with (obviously) way better UI and Carplay integration just doesn't cut it. Also true full self driving (not the crap that Tesla sells) is so far of - even from a legal framework, I doubt it. A 'insanely great' new mobility concept!? Nah.

    So I don't get it. Also if Senior Leadership + CEO can't bother to get involved and the whole concept lacks the 'visionary' leader that twice made Apple great. So why waste all that money, as a stockholder I am pissed? For what result? Carplay v2!? Still don't get it.
    Tesla didn’t invent electrical cars. Calling anyone’s project of an electric car a Tesla clone is ridiculous. Especially since Tesla is now lacking compared to other companies. 
    lol tesla is definitely not lacking compared to others
    anantksundaram
  • Reply 28 of 36
    dk49dk49 Posts: 270member
    I think Apple is stuck in a crisis here. They can't entirely abandon the project because it's the "next big thing", and just too important to ignore from a technology perspective. On the other side, they have been struggling to get things running inside the project. And I don't think they have faced so many challenges with any other ground breaking product they introduced. Plus they have already sunken billions of dollars and many years into the program. Tim Cook is having a hard time deciding what to do with this, and seems like he has left the project on auto pilot. 
    anantksundaram
  • Reply 29 of 36
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,407member
    igorsky said:
    These comments are funny.  People still bringing the same skepticism as from 5 years ago...how did that work out?
    Well, I think?
    muthuk_vanalingamgatorguy
  • Reply 30 of 36
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,407member
    AppleCar is dead. Long live AppleCar(Play). 
  • Reply 31 of 36
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,903member
    Apple will take way longer to complete this project than anyone expects. I think leadership have a great fear of the negative publicity that any death from an Apple branded self-driver will inevitably generate. They will wait for other players to pioneer the self-driving wave and let them suffer the PR nightmare the roadway carnage will bring. Apple is nothing but cautious when it comes to entering new markets.

    I also don't think self-driving cars will reach ubiquity for probably 50 years. There's going to be a lot of two-steps forward one step back for a long time. The accidents and deaths will get all the publicity and slow the process. Legislators will become hesitant to pass the necessary laws and regulations that will be needed to make it all work. It's not going to be easy like Muck and the others want you to believe.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 32 of 36
    thrangthrang Posts: 1,014member
    I've always felt Apple is working this from two angles - they are developing and patenting a lot of tech I surmise that "could" be used in their own vehicle or "could' be used partnering with an existing major manufacturer.

    The next version of CarPlay that was teased could be the basis for either option...

    Apples next-gen CarPlay will better integrate with your cars infotainment  system  Engadget
  • Reply 33 of 36
    netroxnetrox Posts: 1,454member
    It is unlikely that Apple os building cars. It's just testing their CarPlay Next Generation with prototypes. 

    I am reminded about how for many years, Apple is rumored to be developing Apple TV which turns out to be nothing but a streaming device.


  • Reply 34 of 36
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,051member
    Also, if Apple just bought Tesla when they had the chance, they would've been years ahead of where they are now. They would have engineers, manufacturing, and the ability to boot Musk.
    A waste of money then and now….
  • Reply 35 of 36
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,051member
    dewme said:
    I am always skeptical when Apple promises things in the ML or AI areas. Remember when Siri was first launched and we were promised conversational interaction from the get go? Yeah, it's still not here. ML and AI is more fitting for Amazon, Google, IBM, or even MS corporate cultures.
    Your skepticism is entirely valid. It's not a criticism of Apple to say that they are a fantastic Product company. That's something they excel at and perform at a level that few other companies in the world can ever hope to attain. Look inside an Apple Store ... there's not a huge variety of products, but the ones that they sell are truly exceptional. 

    So what Apple is not is a fantastic Systems company. They do systems, some pretty well, but not nearly at the same level that they do Products. The other companies you mentioned, like Amazon, Microsoft, Google, and IBM are great systems companies. Amazon does systems at the level that Apple does products, but Amazon's products are not really standouts. They are okay and they help fuel Amazon's systems focus just like Apple's systems like Apple Music and iCloud help promote Apple's products.

    To my earlier point, if Apple approaches their EV initiative from a product perspective they may be able to get something sooner and something that plays to their strengths. Imagine if iPhone was held back while Apple waited to perfect Siri. Not a scenario I'd like to live with. Maybe I'm being overly critical of Apple's systems expertise, but selling a bazillion amazing products and amassing mountains of cash from having done so does not make you a systems expert. It just makes you a fantastically rich and successful products company.

    Apple does systems very well in house, when Apple’s SOC chips get to where they want them, none of those companies will do better than Apple if they decide to enter the so called systems market, the only thing those companies have going for them is market inertia. Future Apple disruption is very real in that market.

    In short Apple is more likely to move into that area, versus the car market. 

    Also Apple took 13 years to replace Intel there is no hurry to do it right.
  • Reply 36 of 36
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 1,481member
    dewme said:
    I think Apple has missed the window with this project.  They typically aren’t first, but when they do arrive always come out with category changing products.  I’m not sure what they could bring to the table at this point that isn’t already hitting the market in various flawed interactions.  Without a company champion driving the project, we should consider this just an expensive research effort.
    Apple may have missed the market for the very early adopter phase but the whole EV market is still very far from being ready for the start of mainstream adoption, which is where Apple stands the greatest chance of winning in a big way. The whole charging infrastructure is way too fragile at the present time. 

    I could probably get by with an EV as a second vehicle for around town driving but for longer trips in the US driving an EV would require a lot more attention and preparation than I’m willing to take on at this point. I have no doubt that it can be done, but it’s not yet a no-brainer. At some point we need a universal standard for charging stations and rates and need to start transitioning all gas-only stations to mixed source stations. Some have started the changeover, but they are few and far between. 

    I’d prefer that companies like Apple that are working on EVs focus on building the best possible EV. Putting a dependency on delivering autonomous driving capability at the same time they’re trying to roll out their initial EV products is too much of a distraction, in my opinion. Just build the damn car. Figure out the autonomous driving stuff later on as new sensor technology, AI, and ML finally move from the laboratory to mainstream. 
    I believe Apple waits for a certain adoption level before they move forward. An early developer of EVs was Honda. They had the first EV sold to the public in the US in 1996 and the first hybrid as well in 1999 both failed to catch on. Now they are behind the curve and struggling to catch-up. Apple is developing for the future and laying the ground work for something they see coming. When the real shift away from fossil fuels begins, they will find Cook more committed. 
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