Apple continuing full-court press against retail unionization efforts

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  • Reply 21 of 29
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,993member
    Madbum said:
    If these already very highly paid with industry leading benefits and very replaceable Apple retail workers wants to unionize in this economy, they do it at their own risk

    i know about 100 very computer and Apple literate 18 year olds from the high schools in my area that just graduated and would love to work at Apple .

    other retail workers simply do not get the benefits Apple workers get. 

    Stupid stupid greedy people will get what they deserve 
    They can read Apple’s, Starbucks, and Amazon’s stock, profit, quarterly reports, they can see Apple giving free money to the NFL fat cats, amounting to billions of dollars, just four billion dollars per year pays 66,000 American retail employees 60,000 dollars per year, what is more beneficial? Jerry Jones/NFL or making a difference to lives of potentially 200,000 Americans, MAGA?
    ronnAlex_V
  • Reply 22 of 29
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,993member
    JP234 said:
    thrang said:
    Union organizers across Apple's retail footprint say that pay has fallen below living wages in many markets, including Atlanta.


    It's not really the sole responsibility of a company to pay a "living wage" whatever that really means. 

    No it's not the sole responsibility. It's just one of the responsibilities of a company to the people responsible for its success (or failure). The man who mops the blood off the operating room floor is as responsible for the lives of patients as the heart surgeon. Neither works without the other, and you've missed that completely.
    Are you sure?  I would contend that CEO pay is based not upon the number of hours worked versus those working on the manufacturing line or in the stores, but rather by the impact of the work the CEO does.  A CEO routinely makes decisions that have significant impact on the future of the entire business.  Rarely, an individual worker at the retail or manufacturing level has such impact, and if he/she does, his/her pay and position would be substantially raised in recognition of that impact.  Compensation is far more about each employee’s impact than about proximity to the product or service or hours worked.  

    So let’s talk about your heart surgeon versus the employee who mops the blood from the operating room floor.  If the person cleaning the operating room calls in sick, another orderly can be assigned the task.  There’s likely some formal process for accomplishing that task and it’s likely there are a number of orderlies trained to carry it out.  Even the surgeon scheduled to perform the next operation, could, if necessary to prep the room, could step in to perform that task.  The impact to success of the next heart surgery performed in the operating room is not significantly reliant upon the orderly originally assigned the task.  A nurse could perform the task if needed.  Many others could perform that task.

    If the Surgeon, however, is unable to come to work, a nurse, orderly or some other hospital personnel other than another doctor, could not be expected to be able to step in.  The role of heart surgeon is highly specialized, requiring advance medical knowledge and experience.  And the attainment of this knowledge and experience, over a long period of time and at great personal effort, allows the surgeon to perform what those without that experience and knowledge could not reliably perform.  This makes the surgeon far more valuable than the person who cleans the blood off the operating room floor.  

    I’m a bit shocked I had to explain that.  
    In HMO America do Surgeons actually get work on the common people? ;)
  • Reply 23 of 29
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,840member
    JP234 said:
    macxpress said:
    JP234 said:
    thrang said:
    Union organizers across Apple's retail footprint say that pay has fallen below living wages in many markets, including Atlanta.


    It's not really the sole responsibility of a company to pay a "living wage" whatever that really means. 

    No it's not the sole responsibility. It's just one of the responsibilities of a company to the people responsible for its success (or failure). The man who mops the blood off the operating room floor is as responsible for the lives of patients as the heart surgeon. Neither works without the other, and you've missed that completely.
    If you don't like what you're getting paid you can just leave and get a job that pays more. It's not like they're locked into a contract with Apple and have to get out of it. People do this everyday, without a union. 

    I think these retail workers forget they're still working in retail. Are their positions a little more skilled yes, but they're also paid more than most other retail jobs. They also get health insurance (or at least the opportunity to get it) whether they're part or full time employees. They also get massive discounts on certain Apple products. They get a great benefits package most retail workers don't get. It's like they want Apple Corporate benefits for working in Apple Retail. 
    "If you don't like it, just leave for something better." Exactly why the "woke" movement was born. And why the ruling classes think that's a bad thing.
    LOL! Yeah that's exactly why it was born! *rollseyes*
    paxman
  • Reply 24 of 29
    mikethemartian said:

    Are you implying that the required skill level of a CEO of a company is commensurate with that of a surgeon?
    Really?

    Are you implying that the skill level of say Tim Cook who has guided Apple to be the most valuable company in the world does not have a skill level at least commiserate with that of an experienced cardiac surgeon?

    The fact that he works in money, supply chains, products, and policy rather than tissue and scalpels does not make him less skilled - it simply means he works in a different medium.
    edited August 2022 FileMakerFellerbeowulfschmidt
  • Reply 25 of 29
    Personally, I hate unions, because I was unable to fire a low-performing individual at my previous job. (She knows who she is!)

    That said, I back union organizing efforts 100 percent. If you want a functioning middle class in this country, you NEED unions to force corporations to pay middle-class wages. You know how middle-class families got by with stay-at-home moms in the 1950s and 1960s? It's because most jobs paid enough money for a family to afford a decent house, to put food on the table, and pay for medical bills. If the federal minimum wage had kept pace with inflation, it would be over $20 today. If the minimum wage had kept pace with productivity, it would be closer to $30/hour. That's it's been stuck at $7.25 for decades is a testament to the anti-labor sentiment that corporations have bought and paid for.

    Unions aren't perfect. I know that as someone who managed an office of union workers. But they're the least terrible way for the average worker — the average America — to stand up against corporate greed. And yes, I'm including Apple in that list, along with other so-called worker-friendly companies like Starbucks and Trader Joe's. Shame on them all.
    edited August 2022 FileMakerFellermuthuk_vanalingamAlex_VronnJP234
  • Reply 26 of 29
    mikethemartian said:

    Are you implying that the required skill level of a CEO of a company is commensurate with that of a surgeon?
    Really?

    Are you implying that the skill level of say Tim Cook who has guided Apple to be the most valuable company in the world does not have a skill level at least commiserate with that of an experienced cardiac surgeon?

    The fact that he works in money, supply chains, products, and policy rather than tissue and scalpels does not make him less skilled - it simply means he works in a different medium.
    I’m not implying. I’m saying straight out.
  • Reply 27 of 29
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    JP234 said:
    mikethemartian said:

    Are you implying that the required skill level of a CEO of a company is commensurate with that of a surgeon?
    Really?

    Are you implying that the skill level of say Tim Cook who has guided Apple to be the most valuable company in the world does not have a skill level at least commiserate with that of an experienced cardiac surgeon?

    The fact that he works in money, supply chains, products, and policy rather than tissue and scalpels does not make him less skilled - it simply means he works in a different medium.
    I’m not implying. I’m saying straight out.
    When you're dead inside, you don't need a surgeon. You need something else to keep you alive.
    Tim Cook?
    JP234ronn
  • Reply 28 of 29
    Huh.

    My dad worked as a pharmacist for Walgreens and when they were unionizing they threatened to break his legs if he didn't join.

    However corrupt and reprehensible we might view some union actions today, do try to remember that unions learned those tactics from the companies who fought to keep unions from forming in the first place.  From the companies who hired Pinkerton to threaten, maim, and kill organizers, and from the government, which also fought against unions in the beginning.

    To the extent that union organizers employ violence, fraud, and other criminal activity to promote themselves, I continue to condemn them.  I absolutely support unionization, even if I don't always support the union itself.  And if you think that's a contradiction, you aren't paying attention.

    edited August 2022 muthuk_vanalingam
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