Apple Car team reforming before end of 2022 says Ming-Chi Kuo

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in General Discussion
After some years of relative silence, the Apple Car team is said to be restarting work, with a potential reformation of the group before the end of the year, Ming-Chi Kuo believes.

Apple Car
Apple Car


Analyst Ming-Chi Kuo took to Twitter on Wednesday with a single tweet sharing his prediction, based on a "survey."

My latest survey indicates that Apple will likely build the new Apple Car project team before the end of 2022.

Apple2022Apple Car

-- (Ming-Chi Kuo) (@mingchikuo)
It's not clear who was included in the survey that Kuo is talking about. Kuo's sources are more on the supply-side than inside Apple itself.

Sometimes known as Project Titan, the term has been used to refer to a car designed by Apple and a self-driving vehicle system. Multiple cycles of rumors throughout the years have converged lately on a fully autonomous vehicle requiring little human intervention while driving.

Rumors go back to 2014 when the first leak described Project Titan focused on vehicles. Apple formed a shell company called SixtyEight Research and began working in a California facility known as SG5.

The Project Titan team has seen numerous changes. Bob Mansfield took over as project lead in 2016, and the suggestion at the time was that Apple wouldn't directly compete with Tesla.

Much has transpired since then, and the COVID pandemic is said to be a factor in Apple's back-burnering the project. The rumor mill was mostly quiet about the project, prior to Kuo's Tweet on Wednesday.

Kuo has said a vehicle launch from Apple is unlikely to happen before 2025.

In August 2018 he said the launch date could be as early as 2023. Previous dates included 2020 and 2021, with delays linked to the departures of team leaders.

Currently, Kuo's TF Securities expects a launch between 2025 and 2027. Apple could work with Kia to manufacture the vehicle, and the company has approached other manufacturers such as Nissan and Hyundai.

Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 19
    dk49dk49 Posts: 228member
    I have lost count of how many times there have been rumours of Apple car team dissolving and forming again. 
    JP234FileMakerFellerlolliverdewmebyronlwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 19
    JP234JP234 Posts: 527member
    I heard that the Apple Car will run OS 8 Copland!
    elijahgFileMakerFellerJinTechbyronlwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 19
    Maybe they can start with an electric scooter.
  • Reply 4 of 19
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,172member
    I have to agree with the sarcasm being posted here. It’s been too long, too many rumors, too little facts, and NOTHING from Apple. The Apple Car has become a joke, a specter, an ethereal cloud of mist. We hear endless stories of manufacturers being approached for partnerships. It’s a car, no, it’s software for a car, no, it’s an AI avocado. 

    I put the Apple Car right up there with Kuo’s prediction of an Apple HDTV... any time now.
    dk49FileMakerFellerdewmebyronljdonAIwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 19
    At least, that car shadows have a resemblance of a Tesla ModelY electric car….
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 19
    lkrupp said:
    I have to agree with the sarcasm being posted here. It’s been too long, too many rumors, too little facts, and NOTHING from Apple. The Apple Car has become a joke, a specter, an ethereal cloud of mist. We hear endless stories of manufacturers being approached for partnerships. It’s a car, no, it’s software for a car, no, it’s an AI avocado. 

    I put the Apple Car right up there with Kuo’s prediction of an Apple HDTV... any time now.
    Apple is not at fault here. Growing up in a small town, I learned early in life to discount rumors until there is some confirmation from a reliable source. That's never happened regarding the supposed Apple car. 

    No one should be surprised that nothing has come of the car rumors  as they have never been confirmed by any reliable source. 
    FileMakerFellerradarthekatdewmewatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 19
    if it doesn’t come with a free asteroid breakout box do I even want one?
    edited September 28 watto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 19
    It's called Project Titan folks.


    Not an Apple Car.

    Not an iCar.

    Not a Widget.

    This is being secretly developed in a nondescript warehouse space some where in San Francisco where a top secret group of Apple engineers and some head hunted former Tesla engineers are going to revolutionize autonomous driving!!! Estimated time till production: 5 years. 


  • Reply 9 of 19
    lkrupp said:
    I have to agree with the sarcasm being posted here. It’s been too long, too many rumors, too little facts, and NOTHING from Apple. The Apple Car has become a joke, a specter, an ethereal cloud of mist. We hear endless stories of manufacturers being approached for partnerships. It’s a car, no, it’s software for a car, no, it’s an AI avocado.

    You have been online long enough to know that Apple rumor sites will post anything for ad impressions. True journalism died in the Nineties.

    As for this specific rumor, Ming-Chi Kuo is not predicting an Apple Car. He's predicting the reformation of a group to study the concept. Remember that just because Apple works on something doesn't necessarily mean it will make it to market. Look at that wireless AirPower charging mat. They abandoned it.

    Periodically prototype designs of products that never made it to market leak out. For sure, not everything Apple prototypes ends up on a store shelf.
    I put the Apple Car right up there with Kuo’s prediction of an Apple HDTV... any time now.

    Nah, the Apple HDTV was Gene Munster's pet fantasy, not Kuo's.
    edited September 28 FileMakerFellerlolliverradarthekatbyronlwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 19
    It would be really funny if this is all because somebody said "Apple Card" and somebody heard "Apple Car".

    Funny to me, anyway. :smile:
    crowleybyronlfreeassociate2watto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 19
    You can sort of tell what an Apple car would be like based on their existing products and patents: Apple Maps built from ground up with detailed metro information, the AR navigation feature in the map, the incredible improvements in the AI powered Visual Lookup, Spotlight search, and Siri, as well as all the car hardware patents (assembled by Patently Apple), you know they are working on some massive project that would vertical integrate the future product. I must say that battery technologies field quickly became very competitive, Apple surely has no interest in focusing on that. It's likely that the interaction experience will be their focus. 
    fastasleepbyronlwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 19
    lkrupp said:
    I have to agree with the sarcasm being posted here. It’s been too long, too many rumors, too little facts, and NOTHING from Apple. The Apple Car has become a joke, a specter, an ethereal cloud of mist. We hear endless stories of manufacturers being approached for partnerships. It’s a car, no, it’s software for a car, no, it’s an AI avocado. 
    It's not like Apple announced anything. You know how long other technologies have been in Apple's R&D before coming to market in any form whatsoever? How long it was for the iPad from the whiteboard to a marketable product? It's only been ~8 years for a freakin' vehicle.

    Anyone paying any bit of attention has seen the massive amount of work they've been putting into this, on top of the straight-up rumors of partnerships etc.

    Patently Apple has 133 items on Project Titan:
    https://www.patentlyapple.com/autonomous-vehicle-technology/

    They'll turn it into a product when the technologies they need to create the experience they want are adequately developed, and not sooner. 


    mpantone said:

    You have been online long enough to know that Apple rumor sites will post anything for ad impressions. True journalism died in the Nineties. 
    It's not like they're making stuff up, see the Patently Apple link above.
    edited September 28 byronlStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 19
    y2any2an Posts: 135member
    I continue to think Titan doesn’t aim to build a car, rather it will build a suite of hardware and software capabilities for manufacturers to include in their models, all seamlessly integrated with iPhone, watch, satellite services (watch out, OnStar!), and so forth. Any effort towards physical car prototypes will turn out to be test bed vehicles to design and prove the hardware and software. If there’s a re-org coming it will likely be because they are moving beyond research into full scale development if not manufacture. 
    welshdogdewmebyronlwatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 19
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,843member
    y2an said:
    I continue to think Titan doesn’t aim to build a car, rather it will build a suite of hardware and software capabilities for manufacturers to include in their models, all seamlessly integrated with iPhone, watch, satellite services (watch out, OnStar!), and so forth. Any effort towards physical car prototypes will turn out to be test bed vehicles to design and prove the hardware and software. If there’s a re-org coming it will likely be because they are moving beyond research into full scale development if not manufacture. 

    I hope this is right. I was very annoyed to find that Volvo put Android Auto in the C40 Recharge. I'm annoyed my Sony TV runs Android TV. All of these kinds of OSes should have an Apple option. What you suggest sounds reasonable - Apple developed software AND hardware to be incorporated in the cars of partners. You get get the car you want with a superior OS and sensors that integrates perfectly with iOS and maybe even Homekit.
    byronlwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 19
    mpantonempantone Posts: 1,934member
    mpantone said:

    You have been online long enough to know that Apple rumor sites will post anything for ad impressions. True journalism died in the Nineties. 
    It's not like they're making stuff up, see the Patently Apple link above.
    I never stated that this rumor was made up or all rumors were made up. 

    In this case, Ming-Chi Kuo says that he thinks Apple is trying to put together a new Apple Car research team. He's not stating that an Apple Car is coming. Apple has been working on this for nearly ten years.

    Alphabet has been working on Waymo for longer.

    He's not even speculating what product -- if any -- would ship.

    One thing we do know -- based on California DMV autonomous vehicle testing data -- is that Apple's on again/off again program does not have much in the way of total miles driven. For sure the US DOT, the California DMV, and other authorities aren't going to let Apple market any sort of vehicle (consumer or commercial) without extensive road testing. And when I mean road testing, I mean on PUBLIC roads, not some fenced off test track in Nevada, Utah, wherever.

    There is nothing new here. Various companies have been testing autonomous vehicles for years and years and there are only a handful of very limited deployments here in the USA.
    edited September 28 byronldewme
  • Reply 16 of 19
    JP234 said:
    I heard that the Apple Car will run OS 8 Copland!
    Darn! I was hoping it would run Rhapsody!
    byronlwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 19
    It's a waste of time and energy to discuss Apple Car.  It'll never happen (at least fully autonomous).
    dk49watto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 19
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,177member
    mpantone said:
    mpantone said:

    You have been online long enough to know that Apple rumor sites will post anything for ad impressions. True journalism died in the Nineties. 
    It's not like they're making stuff up, see the Patently Apple link above.
    I never stated that this rumor was made up or all rumors were made up. 

    In this case, Ming-Chi Kuo says that he thinks Apple is trying to put together a new Apple Car research team. He's not stating that an Apple Car is coming. Apple has been working on this for nearly ten years.

    Alphabet has been working on Waymo for longer.

    He's not even speculating what product -- if any -- would ship.

    One thing we do know -- based on California DMV autonomous vehicle testing data -- is that Apple's on again/off again program does not have much in the way of total miles driven. For sure the US DOT, the California DMV, and other authorities aren't going to let Apple market any sort of vehicle (consumer or commercial) without extensive road testing. And when I mean road testing, I mean on PUBLIC roads, not some fenced off test track in Nevada, Utah, wherever.

    There is nothing new here. Various companies have been testing autonomous vehicles for years and years and there are only a handful of very limited deployments here in the USA.
    I was referring to AppleInisder "posting anything for ad impressions" and your claim that journalism is dead for some reason. ¯\(°_o)/¯ 
  • Reply 19 of 19
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,177member
    y2an said:
    I continue to think Titan doesn’t aim to build a car, rather it will build a suite of hardware and software capabilities for manufacturers to include in their models, all seamlessly integrated with iPhone, watch, satellite services (watch out, OnStar!), and so forth. Any effort towards physical car prototypes will turn out to be test bed vehicles to design and prove the hardware and software. If there’s a re-org coming it will likely be because they are moving beyond research into full scale development if not manufacture. 
    There's no way they won't own the whole stack. Anyone who says they're building software for other companies' cars don't understand modern Apple at all.
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