Isn’t this the whole point of unions? Title makes it seem like Apple is the bad guy but things like this need to negotiated by the Union.
Exactly. A union gives the workers the power TO negotiate by the union and the company, but it also means that any change to pay or benefits MUST be negotiated by the union and the company. Like everything in life, it’s a double edged sword. The company can’t just give everyone a raise, otoh they can’t unilaterally cut everyone’s health coverage either.
You forgot most important part. The union organizer gets rich while the rest of the people get screwed
Wrong. The union organizer is working on the shop floor like the rest of them.
Isn’t this the whole point of unions? Title makes it seem like Apple is the bad guy but things like this need to negotiated by the Union.
Exactly. A union gives the workers the power TO negotiate by the union and the company, but it also means that any change to pay or benefits MUST be negotiated by the union and the company. Like everything in life, it’s a double edged sword. The company can’t just give everyone a raise, otoh they can’t unilaterally cut everyone’s health coverage either.
You forgot most important part. The union organizer gets rich while the rest of the people get screwed
Wrong. The union organizer is working on the shop floor like the rest of them.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If your whole goal was "collective bargaining" for better wages/benefits/perks established by contractual agreement, don't be surprised when you're stuck with said wages/benefits/perks for the duration stipulated in the contract. And even if this is a "passive aggressive" attempt on Apple's part, it illustrates perfectly the idiosyncrasies of union membership. Hindsight . . .
A poor performing store gets closed: they’ve always done that in fine tuning their retail. If unionization doesn’t hobble a store’s bottom line it’s fine. Otherwise the doors close, how the employees are then handled is likely up to state law.
As to “organizers”? Tend to be different than the actual union management who are light years away from any shop floor. Look up “Judas Goat”.
Similar thing happened when I was working for AT&T in one of their business offices early during my time with them. The company started offering sales rewards like frozen Omaha steaks for employees who exceeded their sales goals. The union (TCEU Telephone Commercial Employees Union) shut it down as “non-negotiated compensation”. Can’t have competition among union “brothers and sisters” as it’s not the socialist way.
Apple would have never thought about these new benefits were it not for the unionization efforts. It's actually union-busting a tool to thwart additional locations unionizing. The Towson location will aim to have any new benefits included in a first contract. And typically, contracts are multi-year in nature. No one wants to renegotiate annually. It's a headache and takes several months to negotiate successor contracts.
Wrong. The only person that wins in a union are the organizers who gets all the pork. Union? In. This economy ? For retail workers who can be easily replaced by most high school kids who use Apple products?
so dumb
IDK about Apple just being able to replace workers with HS kids. There is some skill (both technical and social) when it comes to working at Apple Retail which is why they're paid a little more than most retail stores.
Apple would have never thought about these new benefits were it not for the unionization efforts. It's actually union-busting a tool to thwart additional locations unionizing. The Towson location will aim to have any new benefits included in a first contract. And typically, contracts are multi-year in nature. No one wants to renegotiate annually. It's a headache and takes several months to negotiate successor contracts.
Wrong. The only person that wins in a union are the organizers who gets all the pork. Union? In. This economy ? For retail workers who can be easily replaced by most high school kids who use Apple products?
so dumb
Bullshit. The union organizers are the workers themselves. Once the union is approved by the workers -- in this case the workers voted for the union 65-to-33 even after strong-arm tactics by Apple -- they work to get better treatment, pay and benefits for all of the workers in the unit. We know unions work because corps like Apple spend millions fighting against them. Including using illegal maneuvers as there are no real penalties for corps.
Once the process is begun, they can't just willy-nilly fire them. It's illegal. And stupid. And I very much doubt that Apple could just replace them with "high school kids who use Apple products" as the union would include genius techs, biz specialists and well experienced workers.
Apple only increased salaries after the unionization effort. Now Apple is claiming better benefits after the unionization vote win. Which they can take away at any time. If they succeeded in killing the union, there's nothing to make them keep these new and/or improved benefits. The union contract would be the only thing to guarantee benefits and procedures are followed.
Union can force Apple to keep stores open? In this economy? These are not hard to replace steel workers. These are easily replaced retail workers. How do I know?
I got 2 kids working part time in Apple stores here in California while they going to college. And everything they are doing, my 12 year old can do.
Yes bull shit lol
Show were I said the union can force Apple to keep stores open. They'd be stupid to close stores when a good percentage of their sales are made in them. Not to mention the goodwill and familiarity the retail locations affords Apple.
Ah, so you have two kids working for Apple. Appears you like the kool-aid flavor aid.
And I'm sure your 12y.o. can easily replace a Genius Technician, Business Expert/Pro, or Technical Specialist.
What did you say that union vote tally in Towson was? Most of the Nay votes are genius technicians. Most of the yay votes are the “burger flippers” or front line retail like my kids.
my kids are working there part time while attending UCLA , flexible schedule, great retail pay, they love it .
Now you're pulling stuff out of your nether regions. The vote was 2-to-1. There aren't that many genius technicians. There were probably more non-voting geniuses than those voting nay. The trio of Apple workers that became the organizing committee are a Genius Tech, Operations Lead and Specialists Lead, with an average tenure of ten years. They started the ball rolling with other members of their particular group within Apple before speaking and organizing with other groups. Many of those scared by Apple after the unionization effort was announced and Apple started the anti-union campaign were the lower-level employees with less tenure.
The frustrations within Apple predate COVID. The Pandemic really pushed the unionization effort forward. From harsh scheduling imposed by corporate, to lack of pay transparency and inadequate safety measures. The workers with the most to lose have the least amount of say. Frontline/Essential workers were hailed as heroes, yet treated like dirt before, during and after The Pandemic.
The anti-union effort by Apple flies in the face of their promise in their own Supplier Code of Conduct which promises that they will be neutral in collective bargaining efforts.
Similar thing happened when I was working for AT&T in one of their business offices early during my time with them. The company started offering sales rewards like frozen Omaha steaks for employees who exceeded their sales goals. The union (TCEU Telephone Commercial Employees Union) shut it down as “non-negotiated compensation”. Can’t have competition among union “brothers and sisters” as it’s not the socialist way.
A community way - not a socialist way - is the take out. Disappointed that you didn’t add ‘communist way’ to your ‘socialist way’ as per the normal American practice.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If your whole goal was "collective bargaining" for better wages/benefits/perks established by contractual agreement, don't be surprised when you're stuck with said wages/benefits/perks for the duration stipulated in the contract. And even if this is a "passive aggressive" attempt on Apple's part, it illustrates perfectly the idiosyncrasies of union membership. Hindsight . . .
Exactly, if these idiots want to basically hide behind a union contract to shield them from basically being lazy and still not lose their jobs.
well don’t cry if Apple decides to offer non union people more incentives and /or better pay
How stupid are these people? They are easily replaced retail people , not hard to replace steel workers
Apple would have never thought about these new benefits were it not for the unionization efforts. It's actually union-busting a tool to thwart additional locations unionizing. The Towson location will aim to have any new benefits included in a first contract. And typically, contracts are multi-year in nature. No one wants to renegotiate annually. It's a headache and takes several months to negotiate successor contracts.
Wrong. The only person that wins in a union are the organizers who gets all the pork. Union? In. This economy ? For retail workers who can be easily replaced by most high school kids who use Apple products?
so dumb
Bullshit. The union organizers are the workers themselves. Once the union is approved by the workers -- in this case the workers voted for the union 65-to-33 even after strong-arm tactics by Apple -- they work to get better treatment, pay and benefits for all of the workers in the unit. We know unions work because corps like Apple spend millions fighting against them. Including using illegal maneuvers as there are no real penalties for corps.
Once the process is begun, they can't just willy-nilly fire them. It's illegal. And stupid. And I very much doubt that Apple could just replace them with "high school kids who use Apple products" as the union would include genius techs, biz specialists and well experienced workers.
Apple only increased salaries after the unionization effort. Now Apple is claiming better benefits after the unionization vote win. Which they can take away at any time. If they succeeded in killing the union, there's nothing to make them keep these new and/or improved benefits. The union contract would be the only thing to guarantee benefits and procedures are followed.
Union can force Apple to keep stores open? In this economy? These are not hard to replace steel workers. These are easily replaced retail workers. How do I know?
I got 2 kids working part time in Apple stores here in California while they going to college. And everything they are doing, my 12 year old can do.
Yes bull shit lol
Show were I said the union can force Apple to keep stores open. They'd be stupid to close stores when a good percentage of their sales are made in them. Not to mention the goodwill and familiarity the retail locations affords Apple.
Ah, so you have two kids working for Apple. Appears you like the kool-aid flavor aid.
And I'm sure your 12y.o. can easily replace a Genius Technician, Business Expert/Pro, or Technical Specialist.
What did you say that union vote tally in Towson was? Most of the Nay votes are genius technicians. Most of the yay votes are the “burger flippers” or front line retail like my kids.
my kids are working there part time while attending UCLA , flexible schedule, great retail pay, they love it .
Now you're pulling stuff out of your nether regions. The vote was 2-to-1. There aren't that many genius technicians. There were probably more non-voting geniuses than those voting nay. The trio of Apple workers that became the organizing committee are a Genius Tech, Operations Lead and Specialists Lead, with an average tenure of ten years. They started the ball rolling with other members of their particular group within Apple before speaking and organizing with other groups. Many of those scared by Apple after the unionization effort was announced and Apple started the anti-union campaign were the lower-level employees with less tenure.
The frustrations within Apple predate COVID. The Pandemic really pushed the unionization effort forward. From harsh scheduling imposed by corporate, to lack of pay transparency and inadequate safety measures. The workers with the most to lose have the least amount of say. Frontline/Essential workers were hailed as heroes, yet treated like dirt before, during and after The Pandemic.
The anti-union effort by Apple flies in the face of their promise in their own Supplier Code of Conduct which promises that they will be neutral in collective bargaining efforts.
Cook et al need to stop being hypocrites.
They don’t have to work for Apple. Try other retail and see?
The original article never stated what the termination date of the contract was between the Towson union and Apple. I think this question is still important and still unanswered. If it's two years in the future, this union will miss the new benefits for two years. Isn't this an important aspect of this story?
Apple would have never thought about these new benefits were it not for the unionization efforts. It's actually union-busting a tool to thwart additional locations unionizing. The Towson location will aim to have any new benefits included in a first contract. And typically, contracts are multi-year in nature. No one wants to renegotiate annually. It's a headache and takes several months to negotiate successor contracts.
Wrong. The only person that wins in a union are the organizers who gets all the pork. Union? In. This economy ? For retail workers who can be easily replaced by most high school kids who use Apple products?
so dumb
Bullshit. The union organizers are the workers themselves. Once the union is approved by the workers -- in this case the workers voted for the union 65-to-33 even after strong-arm tactics by Apple -- they work to get better treatment, pay and benefits for all of the workers in the unit. We know unions work because corps like Apple spend millions fighting against them. Including using illegal maneuvers as there are no real penalties for corps.
Once the process is begun, they can't just willy-nilly fire them. It's illegal. And stupid. And I very much doubt that Apple could just replace them with "high school kids who use Apple products" as the union would include genius techs, biz specialists and well experienced workers.
Apple only increased salaries after the unionization effort. Now Apple is claiming better benefits after the unionization vote win. Which they can take away at any time. If they succeeded in killing the union, there's nothing to make them keep these new and/or improved benefits. The union contract would be the only thing to guarantee benefits and procedures are followed.
Exactly. While Apple cannot unilaterally give the union members these benefits without negotiating with the union, neither will they be able to unilaterally take them away once they have been negotiated into the union contract. But with the non-union employees, Apple will be able to take or modify those benefits any time and any way they want.
The restriction on new benefits and salary without negotiation looks like a bad thing for the union members, and generally speaking, I think probably Apple is, at least in part, using it to discourage other locations from unionizing, but it's just short term downside. For the longer term, it's a huge benefit to the worker not have stuff changed at the whim of the company.
Apple would have never thought about these new benefits were it not for the unionization efforts. It's actually union-busting a tool to thwart additional locations unionizing. The Towson location will aim to have any new benefits included in a first contract. And typically, contracts are multi-year in nature. No one wants to renegotiate annually. It's a headache and takes several months to negotiate successor contracts.
Wrong. The only person that wins in a union are the organizers who gets all the pork. Union? In. This economy ? For retail workers who can be easily replaced by most high school kids who use Apple products?
so dumb
Bullshit. The union organizers are the workers themselves. Once the union is approved by the workers -- in this case the workers voted for the union 65-to-33 even after strong-arm tactics by Apple -- they work to get better treatment, pay and benefits for all of the workers in the unit. We know unions work because corps like Apple spend millions fighting against them. Including using illegal maneuvers as there are no real penalties for corps.
Once the process is begun, they can't just willy-nilly fire them. It's illegal. And stupid. And I very much doubt that Apple could just replace them with "high school kids who use Apple products" as the union would include genius techs, biz specialists and well experienced workers.
Apple only increased salaries after the unionization effort. Now Apple is claiming better benefits after the unionization vote win. Which they can take away at any time. If they succeeded in killing the union, there's nothing to make them keep these new and/or improved benefits. The union contract would be the only thing to guarantee benefits and procedures are followed.
Exactly. While Apple cannot unilaterally give the union members these benefits without negotiating with the union, neither will they be able to unilaterally take them away once they have been negotiated into the union contract. But with the non-union employees, Apple will be able to take or modify those benefits any time and any way they want.
The restriction on new benefits and salary without negotiation looks like a bad thing for the union members, and generally speaking, I think probably Apple is, at least in part, using it to discourage other locations from unionizing, but it's just short term downside. For the longer term, it's a huge benefit to the worker not have stuff changed at the whim of the company.
Apple would have never thought about these new benefits were it not for the unionization efforts. It's actually union-busting a tool to thwart additional locations unionizing. The Towson location will aim to have any new benefits included in a first contract. And typically, contracts are multi-year in nature. No one wants to renegotiate annually. It's a headache and takes several months to negotiate successor contracts.
Wrong. The only person that wins in a union are the organizers who gets all the pork. Union? In. This economy ? For retail workers who can be easily replaced by most high school kids who use Apple products?
so dumb
Bullshit. The union organizers are the workers themselves. Once the union is approved by the workers -- in this case the workers voted for the union 65-to-33 even after strong-arm tactics by Apple -- they work to get better treatment, pay and benefits for all of the workers in the unit. We know unions work because corps like Apple spend millions fighting against them. Including using illegal maneuvers as there are no real penalties for corps.
Once the process is begun, they can't just willy-nilly fire them. It's illegal. And stupid. And I very much doubt that Apple could just replace them with "high school kids who use Apple products" as the union would include genius techs, biz specialists and well experienced workers.
Apple only increased salaries after the unionization effort. Now Apple is claiming better benefits after the unionization vote win. Which they can take away at any time. If they succeeded in killing the union, there's nothing to make them keep these new and/or improved benefits. The union contract would be the only thing to guarantee benefits and procedures are followed.
Exactly. While Apple cannot unilaterally give the union members these benefits without negotiating with the union, neither will they be able to unilaterally take them away once they have been negotiated into the union contract. But with the non-union employees, Apple will be able to take or modify those benefits any time and any way they want.
The restriction on new benefits and salary without negotiation looks like a bad thing for the union members, and generally speaking, I think probably Apple is, at least in part, using it to discourage other locations from unionizing, but it's just short term downside. For the longer term, it's a huge benefit to the worker not have stuff changed at the whim of the company.
Apple has only added benefits and not taken anything away in the 17 years of Apple Retail.
However, even if these union people get same benefits negotiated, it will be less since they will have to pay union due to their union mob bosses lol
Apple has no obligation to cover their union dues or will they ever give union people more benefits than their true loyal non union employees.
There is no win here for these people who stupidly joined this union. !!
Apple would have never thought about these new benefits were it not for the unionization efforts. It's actually union-busting a tool to thwart additional locations unionizing. The Towson location will aim to have any new benefits included in a first contract. And typically, contracts are multi-year in nature. No one wants to renegotiate annually. It's a headache and takes several months to negotiate successor contracts.
Wrong. The only person that wins in a union are the organizers who gets all the pork. Union? In. This economy ? For retail workers who can be easily replaced by most high school kids who use Apple products?
so dumb
Then cheap people like you complain about cheap help MAGA a joke.
You forgot most important part. The union organizer gets rich while the rest of the people get screwed
This is a lie. You have clearly never been in a union or ever read a dictionary to learn what a union actually is. I think you’re thinking (well, anti-thinking) of multi-level marketing or pyramid schemes.
it is true that very, very large unions use dues to collect money to put aside for “strike funds” (which go to the workers so they can survive a strike action or union-busting moves) or for *member-approved* political action to strengthen protections for unions. But that’s not at all what most unions do, nor what this Apple Store union (or for that matter the nascent Starbucks union) is doing.
Maybe go find an actual union in your town and talk to the members or officers about what it actually does to educate yourself and not seem quite so knee-jerk reactionary. As a reminder, unions are what gave American workers things like “paid time off,” “weekends,” and the outlawing of child labour, among many other benefits.
They wanted to unionize, now they have to play by the rules. It’s too bad because Apple Retail has always been quite generous with their benefits package and the pay has always been on the higher end of retail (except for a very brief period during the Browett era).
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If your whole goal was "collective bargaining" for better wages/benefits/perks established by contractual agreement, don't be surprised when you're stuck with said wages/benefits/perks for the duration stipulated in the contract. And even if this is a "passive aggressive" attempt on Apple's part, it illustrates perfectly the idiosyncrasies of union membership. Hindsight . . .
Exactly, if these idiots want to basically hide behind a union contract to shield them from basically being lazy and still not lose their jobs.
well don’t cry if Apple decides to offer non union people more incentives and /or better pay
How stupid are these people? They are easily replaced retail people , not hard to replace steel workers
You realise that the biggest union in the US is the one for steel workers, right? Why, if steel workers are hard to replace and therefore should have more bargaining power with an employer, would they feel the need to join a union?
Unions are there to protect every worker against the unfair and illegal practices that an employer might adopt. Does that include lazy and/or incompetent workers? Yes. Does it exclude competent and energetic workers? No. Does having a union add friction and inefficiency to the worker management process? Yes. Is that cost borne in mind by management when they make worker-hostile decisions, or by workers, who are seeking relief? Unlikely.
Comments
The frustrations within Apple predate COVID. The Pandemic really pushed the unionization effort forward. From harsh scheduling imposed by corporate, to lack of pay transparency and inadequate safety measures. The workers with the most to lose have the least amount of say. Frontline/Essential workers were hailed as heroes, yet treated like dirt before, during and after The Pandemic.
The anti-union effort by Apple flies in the face of their promise in their own Supplier Code of Conduct which promises that they will be neutral in collective bargaining efforts.
Cook et al need to stop being hypocrites.
well don’t cry if Apple decides to offer non union people more incentives and /or better pay
How stupid are these people? They are easily replaced retail people , not hard to replace steel workers
However, even if these union people get same benefits negotiated, it will be less since they will have to pay union due to their union mob bosses lol
Apple has no obligation to cover their union dues or will they ever give union people more benefits than their true loyal non union employees.
There is no win here for these people who stupidly joined this union. !!
so union contract up, Apple can just say, ok , here is xyz matching all benefits .
union says , oh we want our union to have whatever the other people get anytime.
Apple says:” Sure they can just leave the union and not be bonded to the contract”
lol
Then cheap people like you complain about cheap help MAGA a joke.
it is true that very, very large unions use dues to collect money to put aside for “strike funds” (which go to the workers so they can survive a strike action or union-busting moves) or for *member-approved* political action to strengthen protections for unions. But that’s not at all what most unions do, nor what this Apple Store union (or for that matter the nascent Starbucks union) is doing.
Maybe go find an actual union in your town and talk to the members or officers about what it actually does to educate yourself and not seem quite so knee-jerk reactionary. As a reminder, unions are what gave American workers things like “paid time off,” “weekends,” and the outlawing of child labour, among many other benefits.
Unions are there to protect every worker against the unfair and illegal practices that an employer might adopt. Does that include lazy and/or incompetent workers? Yes. Does it exclude competent and energetic workers? No. Does having a union add friction and inefficiency to the worker management process? Yes. Is that cost borne in mind by management when they make worker-hostile decisions, or by workers, who are seeking relief? Unlikely.