Apple's $4B ad business at odds with internal culture and values

Posted:
in iOS edited November 2022
Apple has big plans to expand its home-grown advertising business. However, it could be a struggle both in dealing with a privacy-focused public image and from its own engineers.

Apple's search ads on an iPhone 11 Pro
Apple's search ads on an iPhone 11 Pro


While small compared to behemoths such as Google's advertising empire, Apple's own advertising isn't a small project for the company, with it earning billions from ads served in the App Store and other areas.

However, while Apple has ambitions to grow its ad business in the coming years, potentially hitting $6 billion by 2025, it has to also deal with a fundamental struggle. Advertising is viewed as an anti-privacy industry, whereas Apple is decidedly on the side of privacy being a human right.

This is not just an external image struggle, but one that's also internal. Engineers working on Apple's ad technology have signaled that, though Apple wants to get its ad sales bigger, the engineers don't want it to swell too big.

At least seven people who work with or on the ad team told The Information of apathy among Apple's employees over the ad business. Two said that some engineers took to internal chatrooms over it, expressing fears Apple could be going too far and potentially harming the iPhone's premium experience.

Externally, after years of proclaiming to consumers that it cares about privacy and railing against firms that rely on advertising for revenue, Apple is also seeing critics argue that the ad business isn't going right at all for the company.

"They can't alienate users by essentially taking advantage of everything they have built their brand on such as privacy, protecting your data and protecting your identity," said market research firm Insider Intelligence's director of forecasting Peter Newman.

Apple has also come under fire for displaying gambling app ads next to kids applications and gambling addiction recovery apps in the App Store.

Shac Ron, a former Apple engineer, tweeted they were "glad to see Apple getting raked for ads in the OS." Describing the effort as "disgusting and shameful," Ron added "I hope they will realize how offensive these are but realistically I doubt it."

Boosts from initiatives such as App Tracking Transparency has some analysts claiming Apple's ad business could rake in $30 billion by 2026, in quite ambitious predictions.

Internally, one person familiar with the ad business says Apple doesn't have the same ambitions for its ad arm as Meta or Google, and it doesn't plan to build a vast ad network beyond its ecosystem. Executives are allegedly pleased with revenue growth based on existing ad sports, and apparently don't plan to significantly increase the number of ad spots users could encounter on devices.

The focus on privacy for the company does add some limitations to the effort though. The ad products team is effectively isolated from other departments, so the ad team cannot get developer details from other teams, information that is more easily shared internally in organizations like Google.

The ad salespeople are also sometimes asked to do "uncomfortable" things, the report sources claim, such as being encouraged to pitch to clients to bid for keywords that were less relevant to their apps but were inexpensive due to there being few other bidders. Salespeople claim managers said the aim was to increase prices for those inexpensive keywords, which helped the team reach end-of-quarter revenue targets.

An Apple spokesperson told the report that no recommendations to developers comes at their expense, that developers have control over what they bid on, and that developers only pay per tap or installation, rather than impressions.

When asked about supposed complaints from algorithm engineers over the lack of personal data to better train machine learning models for ad targeting, as well as a difficulty in retaining technical talent for the team, the spokesperson disputed the claims. Engineers were said to be energized by opportunities to innovate on privacy-preserving methods and approaches for advertising.

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 21
    I thought the ad business was cratering on all digital platforms. I rarely notice ads on Apple News and I don’t use the App Store much. Do others see these gambling ads a lot? Curious. I have seen them, but only on a scant few “free” apps I have. What does drive me crazy is the repetitive ads I see once reading articles in Apple News, but I assumed those were pushed by the article author/publishers. Yes/no?

    I don’t know how I’d react to an iPhone with ads placed on the home screen or sprinkled within more apps I depend upon. With the new tiers of Disney+ and Netflix offing ads at a lower premium, if these models prove more valuable to those companies, will there come a time when there are no more ad-free options?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 21
    eriamjheriamjh Posts: 1,642member
    So, no tracking because privacy.  Got it. 

    However, don’t show kids gambling ads.  Got it.  

    How do I do the latter without doing the former?   Asking for a friend.  
    robin huberFileMakerFellerwatto_cobrabyronl
  • Reply 3 of 21
    AniMill said:
    I thought the ad business was cratering on all digital platforms. I rarely notice ads on Apple News and I don’t use the App Store much. Do others see these gambling ads a lot? 
    They're not actually "ads". They're paid product placements. The app will show up more often in the 'You Might Also Like' section. It's like the difference between eye-level products in a grocery store (more likely to be seen) versus lower shelf placements. Companies pay for that too.

    The ads that you see inside 'free' apps have nothing to do with Apple.
    edited November 2022 watto_cobratenthousandthings
  • Reply 4 of 21
    Amen. Want to be like all the other dirtbag corporations? Have ads. Be like Apple. Don’t. 

    Can’t help wondering whether this would have happened if Steve were still around. As said on recent MacBreak Weekly: “There isn’t anyone there to say no.”
    elijahgentropyswatto_cobrabyronl
  • Reply 5 of 21
    thrangthrang Posts: 1,008member
    eriamjh said:
    So, no tracking because privacy.  Got it. 

    However, don’t show kids gambling ads.  Got it.  

    How do I do the latter without doing the former?   Asking for a friend.  
    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201084


    eriamjhFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 21
    chadbagchadbag Posts: 2,000member
    I used to do a lot of browsing on the App Store.  No longer. Too many ads and paid placements. 

    Also, did anyone preview this article (aka “edit”) before it was published?  Lots of dumb typos. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 21
    robin huber said: Can’t help wondering whether this would have happened if Steve were still around. As said on recent MacBreak Weekly: “There isn’t anyone there to say no.”
    Nobody remembers iAd? That was something that Steve Jobs promoted quite a bit. It just didn't catch on. 
    appleinsideruserwatto_cobraStrangeDays
  • Reply 8 of 21
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,759member
    Amen. Want to be like all the other dirtbag corporations? Have ads. Be like Apple. Don’t. 

    Can’t help wondering whether this would have happened if Steve were still around. As said on recent MacBreak Weekly: “There isn’t anyone there to say no.”
    Apparently there have been people pushing back hard, but Cook apparently is desperate for more money at the cost of everything - including Apple’s coveted customer satisfaction. Despite which Apple’s share price has been flat for the last 18 months. 

    I’m getting more and more pissed off with these ads everywhere, and the only way Apple will grow revenue from it is to insert more ads into everything. How long until we get them on macOS, like MS has in windows? 

    Cook has stayed far beyond his usefulness. He needs to be replaced - and not by another COO. 
    appleinsideruser
  • Reply 9 of 21
    elijahg said: Apparently there have been people pushing back hard, but Cook apparently is desperate for more money at the cost of everything - including Apple’s coveted customer satisfaction. Despite which Apple’s share price has been flat for the last 18 months. 
    Collecting money for better product placement is a longstanding tradition in brick/mortar stores. Not really sure why people are acting outraged beyond ignorance of how stores traditionally monetize things. Plus the gambling thing is a huge LOL. Gambling became mainstream in the United States a long time ago. It's not some sort of forbidden activity. Turn on any sports broadcast and you're going to see adverts for gambling. Kids watch sports, right? 
    edited November 2022 watto_cobraStrangeDays
  • Reply 10 of 21
    eriamjh said:
    So, no tracking because privacy.  Got it. 

    However, don’t show kids gambling ads.  Got it.  

    How do I do the latter without doing the former?   Asking for a friend.  

    Simple: Don’t anccept ads for gambling, or anything else that’s addictive.

  • Reply 11 of 21
    sunman42 said:
    eriamjh said:
    So, no tracking because privacy.  Got it. 

    However, don’t show kids gambling ads.  Got it.  

    How do I do the latter without doing the former?   Asking for a friend.  

    Simple: Don’t anccept ads for gambling, or anything else that’s addictive.

    Like games? 

    My optometrist told me she’s addicted to MyFitnessPal. 

    A friend of mine is an alcoholic. He hasn’t had a drink in decades but, perhaps unknown to him, transferred his addiction to cycling. No advertising for Strava!

    Some people uses their devices too much, that’s part of the reason we have Screen Time. Better ban ads for electronics. 

    This can go on and on. Maybe it’s just easier to not place ads for gambling apps alongside apps that are rated for children.  No tracking necessary, either. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 21
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,165member
    What Would Steve Do?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 21
    To the extent that advertising is about providing people with useful information, it’s fine. The problem comes when advertising turns into manipulation— convincing people to do things contrary to their interests. It’s possible to stay on the right side of the line — for example I think Gruber manages it— but most companies can’t resist the dark side. 

    Be careful apple! 
    (And maybe hire John Gruber)
    FileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 21
    entropys said:
    What Would Steve Do?
    He would tell you to stop bothering him, decide in your own mind what's right, and then go do that.
    watto_cobraStrangeDays
  • Reply 15 of 21
    entropys said:
    What Would Steve Do?
    He would tell you to stop bothering him, decide in your own mind what's right, and then go do that.
    That’s what ghost of Steve would do. If you chose to prominently display ads for gambling apps living Steve would have called you a bozo and fired you. 
    elijahgentropys
  • Reply 16 of 21
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    AniMill said:
    I thought the ad business was cratering on all digital platforms. I rarely notice ads on Apple News and I don’t use the App Store much. Do others see these gambling ads a lot? 
    They're not actually "ads". They're paid product placements. The app will show up more often in the 'You Might Also Like' section. It's like the difference between eye-level products in a grocery store (more likely to be seen) versus lower shelf placements. Companies pay for that too.

    The ads that you see inside 'free' apps have nothing to do with Apple.
    I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.
    elijahg
  • Reply 17 of 21
    elijahg said:
    Amen. Want to be like all the other dirtbag corporations? Have ads. Be like Apple. Don’t. 

    Can’t help wondering whether this would have happened if Steve were still around. As said on recent MacBreak Weekly: “There isn’t anyone there to say no.”
    Apparently there have been people pushing back hard, but Cook apparently is desperate for more money at the cost of everything - including Apple’s coveted customer satisfaction. Despite which Apple’s share price has been flat for the last 18 months. 

    I’m getting more and more pissed off with these ads everywhere, and the only way Apple will grow revenue from it is to insert more ads into everything. How long until we get them on macOS, like MS has in windows? 

    Cook has stayed far beyond his usefulness. He needs to be replaced - and not by another COO. 
    Sweet job repeating rumor as fact. 

    Even this article quotes the internal (still working there) sources as saying Apple is happy with growth as it is, and doesn’t plan to do anything as drastic as the fear mongerers suggest. 

    Executives are allegedly pleased with revenue growth based on existing ad sports, and apparently don't plan to significantly increase the number of ad spots users could encounter on devices. 

    And fire Cook? Riiiiight. Back to that trope, are we… 
    edited November 2022
  • Reply 18 of 21
    blastdoor said:
    entropys said:
    What Would Steve Do?
    He would tell you to stop bothering him, decide in your own mind what's right, and then go do that.
    That’s what ghost of Steve would do. If you chose to prominently display ads for gambling apps living Steve would have called you a bozo and fired you. 
    Steve isn’t living so what you’ve described is just your own thoughts attributed to him. 

    What’s interesting when people deify a person is they overlook all the mistakes or questionable things they did while living. In Jobs’ case for products like iPod socks to iAd, and for business cases like colluding to prevent employment at will with competitors, to stock option price backdate manipulation. 
    edited November 2022
  • Reply 19 of 21
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,212member
    From an opinion piece on an Apple fan forum:

    Tim Cook - "When an online service is free, you’re not the customer. You’re the product."

    That’s a powerful selling point when compared to companies like Meta and Google.

    But now it’s true for Apple too. Apple may use you as a product far less frequently than its competitors, but it still does so. That turns a black-and-white difference into more of a gray area.

    “What happens on iPhone, stays on iPhone” is a powerful message. “What happens on iPhone, mostly stays on iPhone” not so much.

    Now, personally, I do broadly believe Apple’s privacy promises. But that’s not the point. Now Apple customers have to decide for themselves whether the company is truly different to companies like Google, or whether it’s just a matter of degree – that Apple is merely less worse than Google.

    muthuk_vanalingamelijahgentropys
  • Reply 20 of 21
    blastdoor said:
    entropys said:
    What Would Steve Do?
    He would tell you to stop bothering him, decide in your own mind what's right, and then go do that.
    That’s what ghost of Steve would do. If you chose to prominently display ads for gambling apps living Steve would have called you a bozo and fired you. 
    Steve isn’t living so what you’ve described is just your own thoughts attributed to him. 

    What’s interesting when people deify a person is they overlook all the mistakes or questionable things they did while living. In Jobs’ case for products like iPod socks to iAd, and for business cases like colluding to prevent employment at will with competitors, to stock option price backdate manipulation. 
    So if you felt it necessary to point out that I must be imagining what living Steve would have said, shouldn’t you also point out that there’s no such thing as ghosts? Or do you think it makes total sense that I’m talking to the ghost of Steve?

    Your commentary about deification is irrelevant. You don’t have to deify Steve Jobs to be highly confident that he’d fire the bozo who decided to sh!t all over Apple’s otherwise impeccable brand with utterly tasteless ads. There are plenty of other decisions that have been made since he died that I suspect he’d disagree with but respect as a legitimate difference of opinion. But this ad thing is just a big turd — it’s way out of bounds. 
    elijahgentropys
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