Deadly Apple Store car crash was an accident, driver claims

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 31
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,272member
    DAalseth said:
    M68000 said:
    lkrupp said:
    If the vehicle is a recent model it will have the equivalent of a black box and we’ll see if his story holds up. And of course Apple will be sued for failing to protect its customers and employees.
    Further,  do they have video of where the vehicle started from?  Where was this guy,  in a straight line or were turns involved also?
    been there so many times and I drive a 4Runner.  if he was going 60MPH when he hit the glass he had a maximum 330 foot start (according to Google Earth) from Crate and Barrel across the parking lot.  4Runner is 0-60 in 7.7 seconds.  I'm just saying.. that thing was floored for 100 yards?  I dunno, man.  
    And if he was pressing on the gas, thinking it was the brake that would do it. Especially if the car accelerates, he panics, presses harder on the “brake” and it accelerates more, and he panics more… It’s not an uncommon accident. 
    Sad but true, but more likely with novice and elderly drivers. A similar accident happened where I live a few years ago. In my hometown case the driver was simply pulling into a parking space in front of a breakfast restaurant in a strip mall. There was little more than a single car length from where the driver turned 90 degrees to pull into the parking space to the restaurant wall. The driver accidentally hit the accelerator instead of the brake when pulling into the parking space. In that very short length of travel the car jumped the curb and crashed through a half brick/half glass wall and killed a patron of the restaurant and injured two others. After that tragedy occurred the owner of the building installed unlinked concrete Jersey barriers in front of the restaurant. In all likelihood if the same thing were to happen again the vehicle would likely push the barrier through the restaurant wall with similar results. 
    edited November 2022
  • Reply 22 of 31
    This is derby street shops on the back side from Crate and Barrel to Apple Store.  Notice the angles too..
    Not sure why people are referring to Crate & Barrel when the driver said his foot got stuck on the accelerator while driving by Barnes & Nobles which is 141 feet from the Apple Store. 
    he ain't likely to get up to 60MPH from Barnes and Noble.  I've been there many times.  if that was the speed when he hit the glass... he started speeding up much earlier.
    ronn
  • Reply 23 of 31
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,344member
    jdw said:
    Sorry for my ignorance of crazy modern English, but what in the world does "The car crashed through the glass at speed" mean?  "At speed"?
    It's an idiom meant to imply at higher than expected or appropriate speed. Like many idioms, not particularly accurate or useful, just meant to provoke a feeling or impression.

    I don't know how the 60 MPH was determined. I don't think that speed would be required for a 3000-4000# SUV to do that damage. No braking or constant or increased acceleration could do that at less than 60 MPH. Unintended acceleration through human error seems like a plausible explanation. Except where or how does the transition from causally moving through the car park to accidentally stabbing and hold the accelerator occur? Impairment is still a possibility.


    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 24 of 31
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,025member
    tommikele said:
    lkrupp said:
    If the vehicle is a recent model it will have the equivalent of a black box and we’ll see if his story holds up. And of course Apple will be sued for failing to protect its customers and employees. To crash through the glass entry and stop only when it hit the rear wall, as the article points out, that car must have been moving really quick. The investigators will be crawling up his rear to see if he has any history with Apple, good or bad. 
    The story he told is exactly as it happened. Its already held up -  foot stuck on the accelerator and no braking. All the black box will do in this case is confirm what he said. Alcohol test was negative and you can bet if they took a blood test for other drugs, it will likely be negative too. 

    Horrible accident is what this is. It is not some conspiracy driven plot.

    I wonder of the driver, a 52 year old guy, is an iPhone user or android!
    But in one article he stated that when his foot got caught on the accelerator, he tried to brake with his left foot. Which would show up in the "black box" data, (if he actually depressed the brake with his left foot.) Also, the "black box" will indicated if the accelerator was constantly depressed on a certain setting from the time he said his foot got caught or whether there were changes made during the time  he said he got his foot stuck on it and the time his truck hit the store. If the "black box" data shows that the pressure on the accelerator increased gradually as he sped down the road, let up a little as the truck turned toward the Apple Store and then was fully depressed right before hitting the store front, then it will will prove that the accident did not happened "exactly" as he described. 

    The "black box' will also indicate exactly how fast he was going when he had the chance to make that turn in the road, before jumping up on the sidewalk and hitting the store. That left turn looks wide enough to handle 45MPH, unless there were pedestrians crossing.  
  • Reply 25 of 31
    This is derby street shops on the back side from Crate and Barrel to Apple Store.  Notice the angles too..
    Not sure why people are referring to Crate & Barrel when the driver said his foot got stuck on the accelerator while driving by Barnes & Nobles which is 141 feet from the Apple Store. 
    he ain't likely to get up to 60MPH from Barnes and Noble.  I've been there many times.  if that was the speed when he hit the glass... he started speeding up much earlier.
    It takes 4 seconds to go from 30 mph to 50 mph and his 4Runner has 270HP, it’s possible if the accelerator was to the floor to go that fast. Plus it would take him 194 feet to stop but with the store being 141 feet from BN that ain’t happening. 
  • Reply 26 of 31
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,823moderator
    M68000 said:
    lkrupp said:
    If the vehicle is a recent model it will have the equivalent of a black box and we’ll see if his story holds up. And of course Apple will be sued for failing to protect its customers and employees.
    Further,  do they have video of where the vehicle started from?  Where was this guy,  in a straight line or were turns involved also?
    As I showed in my comment in the first story about this incident, there's a straight section of roadway adject to the parking spaces, which leads directly to a restaurant, also unprotected by lack of any bollards and much closer to the roadway.  This roadway is the only possible direction from which a fast moving vehicle could have come and with the Apple Store set back about 30 feet from the roadway and off to the side versus the restaurant, it makes sense that an out of control driver would swerve to avoid collision with the restaurant and end up in the space in front of the Apple Store.  Under conditions where the driver is gaining control of the vehicle this would give an extra 30 feet of space in which to slow or stop the vehicle, but in this case, according to the driver, he was unable to slow the vehicle and therefore collision through the Apple storefront was inevitable.  

    I surmised in my comment on that earlier story that, given the roadway and restaurant location, the incident was likely not intentional but rather an instance of unintended acceleration.  
    entropyspulseimagesmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 27 of 31
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,133member
    There were all those stuck accelerator recalls that Toyota did about ten years ago

    Here’s the quick backstory on the “sticky pedal” crisis: In 2009, a man phoned 911 to report that his accelerator pedal was stuck and he couldn’t get the car to stop. He said his brakes weren’t working. Ultimately, his car crashed into another and then plunged into a ravine. Everyone inside the vehicle was killed.
    The 911 call went viral, and the scandal broke wide open. Over the next five years, an estimated 90 people died in Toyotas that mysteriously accelerated. Toyota recalled millions of vehicles but was accused of concealing information about the flawed pedals. In 2014, the company paid $1.2 billion to avoid prosecution for covering up information about problems with “unintended acceleration” that the FBI said Toyota “knew was deadly.” 

    However:

    The real culprit? Human error. More often than not, drivers who reported that their accelerators were stuck were inadvertently flooring it and thinking they were pressing the brakes. Data from many of the “black boxes” from cars involved in incidents of unintended acceleration showed that in most cases, the brakes were never even touched. 


    edited November 2022 ronnradarthekat
  • Reply 28 of 31
    I know this is a few days old, but I have a 4-Runner, it's not the same model as the one involved in this is a Limited.  You can tell because on the truck below the Logo, next to the R of 4Runner is Up/Down Arrows which are exclusive to the Limited Edition. Anyway, I had my shoe get stuck and had to YANK HARD to get it unstuck, it had to do with the heel of the shoe and gas pedal (accelerator), and while I don't think it's a design flaw (as there is never a "perfect" design), it made me aware of the issue and I was luck I was on an open road. 

    I would have crashed into a column on the right at the minimum, thrown it into neutral (if I had time, when the truck gears down and goes you have maybe a sec or two to react) or turned the key off, but again you have a few seconds to react and most people don't understand that.
    pulseimagesradarthekat
  • Reply 29 of 31
  • Reply 30 of 31
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,310member
    macgui said:
    jdw said:
    Sorry for my ignorance of crazy modern English, but what in the world does "The car crashed through the glass at speed" mean?  "At speed"?
    Like many idioms, not particularly accurate or useful, just meant to provoke a feeling or impression.
    The "feeling" it provoked in me was that the English was incorrect. :-)  In fact, I still think it is incorrect, despite your mention of it being an idiom.

    To be honest, I think there is much cruft in English we would be better off doing without. Just because some people have come to embrace certain terms or phrases doesn't mean their continued use is justified.

    My personal philosophy is to rework a sentence when I know in my mind that a particular idiom could be misunderstood, especially when speaking to people outside one's home country which may not have knowledge of country-specific idioms.

    Even here in Japan, there are what I call crazy phrases.  On example, is Ao-Shingo, which is directly translated as Blue Signal (on a stop light), but more correctly translated "Green Light."  Why is "green light" are more correct translation? Because we English speakers never use "Blue Light."  Why?  Because the color is GREEN, not blue!  So why do the Japanese love "Ao" instead?  Well, I've heard some people try to say the light looks a tad blue, but sorry, I have an eye for color and it is certainly not blue.  The better explanation is that the word Ao (blue) is shorter than Midori (green), and to some extend it may sound better.  Is that a good justification for using Ao over Midori?  Absolutely not!  But that is what people have been trained to say.  It's all about mind control.  I remember being in a church here in Japan where the pastor asked children what color stop light he was showing them, and they all screamed MIDORI! knowing, just like me, that it is in fact green.  But the pastor corrected them by saying, "Yes but we say Blue."  So language errors like Ao-shingo and "at speed" are indeed taught, not something we naturally conclude.

    Language is crazy because we people who create and then constantly morph it are crazy.  If we weren't crazy, language would be more consistent and easier to figure out.

    All said, use the most understandable English you can and English speakers worldwide will love you for it.  That's why the last 25+ years of living in Japan has helped me speak better English, because better English is English that is more easily and more widely understood.
  • Reply 31 of 31
    This is derby street shops on the back side from Crate and Barrel to Apple Store.  Notice the angles too..
    Not sure why people are referring to Crate & Barrel when the driver said his foot got stuck on the accelerator while driving by Barnes & Nobles which is 141 feet from the Apple Store. 
    he ain't likely to get up to 60MPH from Barnes and Noble.  I've been there many times.  if that was the speed when he hit the glass... he started speeding up much earlier.
    It takes 4 seconds to go from 30 mph to 50 mph and his 4Runner has 270HP, it’s possible if the accelerator was to the floor to go that fast. Plus it would take him 194 feet to stop but with the store being 141 feet from BN that ain’t happening. 
    Indicted for murder.  Driver indicted for murder in Apple Store crash in Hingham (msn.com)
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