II don't agree with the way Epic Games started this, but I do feel their sentiment. Taking 30% of someone's business in order to sell on their platform is like doing the same in order to make a MacOS or Windows 11 app. It does seem unfair.
Back in the physical software days, most developers/publishers had to get distribution via a company like Ingram Micro-D. Ingram took up to 52% of list price. 30%, which includes credit card fees and risk is a freaking bargain, IMO. There's also a lot of cost in operating one's own e-commerce site.
Having said that, due to pressure from various governments, Apple is probably going to have to compromise. They could take a lower percentage on in-app sales, as long as there's some minimum initial fee and they could allow selling outside of the App Store as long as the app is still submitted for a technical review for which Apple gets a fee. Also, if you sell outside of the App Store, then you have to pay for Apple's development tools and documentation, which are currently free.
Epic doesn’t have to sell in Apples App Store. The store did t exist before Apple spent billions over last 15 years developing it.
But Apple won't let competing app stores on iOS. That is what Epic claims is illegal.
So if you sell your salted peanuts at Safeway, on the shelves. and now you decided you want to go against Safeway rules and build a store in aisle 7 with you own cashier and not pay Safeway
do you think Safeway goes for that?
but if you go outside of Safeway and lease you own space and build yiu store and pull your stuff out of Safeway, I am pretty sure Safeway would not have an issue
again Sweeney is an agent of communist China, that is just as bad as Putin, so there is no need to even discuss them as actual human beings
This is the last time I'm going to waste my evening responsing to your racist garbage.
My iOS devices are my property. I cannot choose to install apps outside of the App Store. I do not have choice. Apple actively prohibits third party payment mechanisms or app distribution channels. So in your analogy that's like Safeway prohibiting me from opening up my own store elsewhere in town. Apple's behavior is illegal and must be stopped.
That is a losing argument or the argument of a loser.
You have the choice to use an Android device. It's a choice that over 70% of mobile users make. What's stopping you? Not Apple. Apple devices are not the only devices you have to choose from. Neither Apple devices or iOS are monopolies under the anti-trust definition of a "monopoly". And having a monopoly in itself, is not illegal. For most consumers, they can do everything with a Samsung Galaxy, that they can do with an iPhone, and more.
When you buy a Mercedes, you can drop in any engine and trans you want, install any stereo system, paint it any color, change the software on the engine computer to increase performance, install oversize tires, etc.. But do you expect Mercedes to factory install engine mounts to accommodate other engines and trans? Or factory install speakers holes in the interior for you to install other stereo systems? Or increase the size of their wheel wells to accommodate tires the car was not designed for? Or provide the software and ports for you to change the software on the engine computer? Of course not. So why do you expect Apple to make modification to iOS to accommodate you? iOS is Apple IP, not yours.
You are allow to jailbreak your Apple devices to install apps from other app stores. You can get an Apple developer account to sign and sideload apps into your Apple devices using a third party installer or learn to use Xcode (which is free.). You can use third party payment systems with your Apple devices by using a web browser.
And no. It's Safeway prohibiting you from opening a competing store, inside a Safeway. You opening a store across town to compete with Safeway, is like a developer opening an app store on Android, to compete with Apple. And there are dozens of app stores on Android, that competes with the Apple App Store in the mobile device market.
Is Disney being anti-competitive because they prohibit you from opening your own concession stand, inside their Disneyland amusement park? Is a musician being anti-competitive because you can't use their copyrighted songs to make money off, even though you bought their CD?
On the other hand, Sweeney have no problem paying the 30% commission on Microsoft Xbox because Microsoft claim that they make very little profit selling Xbox hardware. So he thinks Microsoft is entitled to charge a 30% commission of Xbox game apps, in order to support and profit from their Xbox platform. Even though Microsoft have the same "monopoly" with their Xbox platform, as Apple have with iOS.
“I'll chase him round Good Hope, and round the Horn, and round the Norway Maelstrom, and round perdition's flames before I give him up.”
Most probably familiar with Khan paraphrasing of this in Star Trek ll, Wrath of Khan. Even if they might not be familiar with the original quote and where it came from.
"I'll chase him 'round the moons of Nibia and 'round the Antares Maelstrom and 'round perdition's flames before I give him up!"
Dude, if you don't like the "product" Apple invented, invested, built, and provided, go do it yourself! Plain and simple. Crying and complaining you don't like it is worthless. Do something worth the attention of the world, and decide then how to charge others to play in that ecosystem. Apple did it, were successful, and still are enough so that they remain on top. Period. Millions of people accept that, pay for that, and live happy, productive lives. If you don't like something, go do better yourself.
Epic doesn’t have to sell in Apples App Store. The store did t exist before Apple spent billions over last 15 years developing it.
But Apple won't let competing app stores on iOS. That is what Epic claims is illegal.
So if you sell your salted peanuts at Safeway, on the shelves. and now you decided you want to go against Safeway rules and build a store in aisle 7 with you own cashier and not pay Safeway
do you think Safeway goes for that?
but if you go outside of Safeway and lease you own space and build yiu store and pull your stuff out of Safeway, I am pretty sure Safeway would not have an issue
again Sweeney is an agent of communist China, that is just as bad as Putin, so there is no need to even discuss them as actual human beings
This is the last time I'm going to waste my evening responsing to your racist garbage.
My iOS devices are my property. I cannot choose to install apps outside of the App Store. I do not have choice. Apple actively prohibits third party payment mechanisms or app distribution channels. So in your analogy that's like Safeway prohibiting me from opening up my own store elsewhere in town. Apple's behavior is illegal and must be stopped.
In what way did Apple prevent Google from building the play store? In what way is Apple preventing Netflix from selling subscriptions on the Netflix website?
Epic doesn’t have to sell in Apples App Store. The store did t exist before Apple spent billions over last 15 years developing it.
But Apple won't let competing app stores on iOS. That is what Epic claims is illegal.
So if you sell your salted peanuts at Safeway, on the shelves. and now you decided you want to go against Safeway rules and build a store in aisle 7 with you own cashier and not pay Safeway
do you think Safeway goes for that?
but if you go outside of Safeway and lease you own space and build yiu store and pull your stuff out of Safeway, I am pretty sure Safeway would not have an issue
again Sweeney is an agent of communist China, that is just as bad as Putin, so there is no need to even discuss them as actual human beings
This is the last time I'm going to waste my evening responsing to your racist garbage.
My iOS devices are my property. I cannot choose to install apps outside of the App Store. I do not have choice. Apple actively prohibits third party payment mechanisms or app distribution channels. So in your analogy that's like Safeway prohibiting me from opening up my own store elsewhere in town. Apple's behavior is illegal and must be stopped.
That is a losing argument or the argument of a loser.
You have the choice to use an Android device. It's a choice that over 70% of mobile users make. What's stopping you? Not Apple. Apple devices are not the only devices you have to choose from. Neither Apple devices or iOS are monopolies under the anti-trust definition of a "monopoly". And having a monopoly in itself, is not illegal. For most consumers, they can do everything with a Samsung Galaxy, that they can do with an iPhone, and more.
When you buy a Mercedes, you can drop in any engine and trans you want, install any stereo system, paint it any color, change the software on the engine computer to increase performance, install oversize tires, etc.. But do you expect Mercedes to factory install engine mounts to accommodate other engines and trans? Or factory install speakers holes in the interior for you to install other stereo systems? Or increase the size of their wheel wells to accommodate tires the car was not designed for? Or provide the software and ports for you to change the software on the engine computer? Of course not. So why do you expect Apple to make modification to iOS to accommodate you? iOS is Apple IP, not yours.
You are allow to jailbreak your Apple devices to install apps from other app stores. You can get an Apple developer account to sign and sideload apps into your Apple devices using a third party installer or learn to use Xcode (which is free.). You can use third party payment systems with your Apple devices by using a web browser.
And no. It's Safeway prohibiting you from opening a competing store, inside a Safeway. You opening a store across town to compete with Safeway, is like a developer opening an app store on Android, to compete with Apple. And there are dozens of app stores on Android, that competes with the Apple App Store in the mobile device market.
Is Disney being anti-competitive because they prohibit you from opening your own concession stand, inside their Disneyland amusement park? Is a musician being anti-competitive because you can't use their copyrighted songs to make money off, even though you bought their CD?
Some folks just aren’t aware, apparently, that the owner of an iPhone does not own, but merely licenses the use of, iOS. That’s the reason they aren’t grokking your lucid arguments.
So why haven't Epic sued Microsoft and Sony for their 30% commission? Xbox and PlayStation game consoles account for over 70% of Fortnite revenue. Mobile platforms, less than 10%. Could it be that Sweeney is OK with paying Microsoft and Sony the same 30% he's bitching about paying Apple?
Sony acquired 1.4% in Epic in 2020 for $250M and another 3% for $1B in April 2022 - That's why Tim stopped going after Sony?! [KIRKBI (Lego) also invested $1B the same time as Sony in 2022. Chinese conglomerate Tencent invested $330M for 40% in 2012. Walt Disney also has stakes in Epic.]
As for why Tim wants to fight Apple to the bitter end? If I were to leave a 'noteworthy' legacy, I'd take on the #1 BIGGEST, most reputable company too. Just like the goons (Amy K, Lizzie Warren, etc.) on the Hill. It's the second best thing next to a Presidential bid. lol.
I guess I did for those who are sympathetic to the Chinese communists and their agents like Epic and Sweeney
Enough with the anti-China bigotry, we get it, you are not into China or anything Chinese, propaganda has worked on you.
Bigotry? Are you dense? I lived in China /Hong Kong and Taiwan for 15 years. I speak Chinese fluently and I love my Chinese friends.I am against Chinese communists and their state owned companies doing damage to America.
so Chinese communists and CCP is “propaganda”? Lol
so what is clear is you have no issues with Chinese communists
So why haven't Epic sued Microsoft and Sony for their 30% commission? Xbox and PlayStation game consoles account for over 70% of Fortnite revenue. Mobile platforms, less than 10%. Could it be that Sweeney is OK with paying Microsoft and Sony the same 30% he's bitching about paying Apple?
Sony acquired 1.4% in Epic in 2020 for $250M and another 3% for $1B in April 2022 - That's why Tim stopped going after Sony?! [KIRKBI (Lego) also invested $1B the same time as Sony in 2022. Chinese conglomerate Tencent invested $330M for 40% in 2012. Walt Disney also has stakes in Epic.]
As for why Tim wants to fight Apple to the bitter end? If I were to leave a 'noteworthy' legacy, I'd take on the #1 BIGGEST, most reputable company too. Just like the goons (Amy K, Lizzie Warren, etc.) on the Hill. It's the second best thing next to a Presidential bid. lol.
I think it's called Infamy not legacy when you set out to make a name for yourself by destroying something good.
And by and large the Appstore is good (could by better but conceptually good) in that it has opened to doors for smaller developers to effectively find viable market for products. Sure that isn't the space Epic plays in I get they don't give a rats about that space. Apple do care, that space drives software, hardware and brand.
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Having said that, due to pressure from various governments, Apple is probably going to have to compromise. They could take a lower percentage on in-app sales, as long as there's some minimum initial fee and they could allow selling outside of the App Store as long as the app is still submitted for a technical review for which Apple gets a fee. Also, if you sell outside of the App Store, then you have to pay for Apple's development tools and documentation, which are currently free.
But Samsung and Qualcomm are not run by a clown.
"I'll chase him 'round the moons of Nibia and 'round the Antares Maelstrom and 'round perdition's flames before I give him up!"
licenses the use of, iOS. That’s the reason they aren’t grokking your lucid arguments.
[KIRKBI (Lego) also invested $1B the same time as Sony in 2022. Chinese conglomerate Tencent invested $330M for 40% in 2012. Walt Disney also has stakes in Epic.]
As for why Tim wants to fight Apple to the bitter end?
If I were to leave a 'noteworthy' legacy, I'd take on the #1 BIGGEST, most reputable company too. Just like the goons (Amy K, Lizzie Warren, etc.) on the Hill. It's the second best thing next to a Presidential bid. lol.
so Chinese communists and CCP is “propaganda”? Lol
so what is clear is you have no issues with Chinese communists
And by and large the Appstore is good (could by better but conceptually good) in that it has opened to doors for smaller developers to effectively find viable market for products. Sure that isn't the space Epic plays in I get they don't give a rats about that space. Apple do care, that space drives software, hardware and brand.