Australia's Apple Store workers plan Christmas strike

Posted:
in General Discussion edited December 2022
Workers in Apple Stores in Australia are planning to strike over pay and conditions again, this time with a walkout over the Christmas holiday period.

Strikers at Apple's Brisbane store in October 2022. Source: Cameron Atfield, Sydney Morning Herald
Strikers at Apple's Brisbane store in October 2022. Source: Cameron Atfield, Sydney Morning Herald


Following its first strike in October 2022, and subsequent plans to hold further ones when necessary, Australia's workers are preparing for a two-day walkout. It would begin at 15:00 local time on December 23, 2022, and continue throughout Christmas Eve, traditionally a particularly busy time for Apple Store sales.

According to Reuters, the strike would affect all Apple Stores in Australia, but especially the two in Brisbane, plus one each in in Adelaide and Newcastle. These are the stores with most members in Australia's Retail and Fast Food Workers Union (RAFFWU).

RAFFWU has been asking Apple for improved conditions such as fixed rosters, and an agreed annual wage rise. Reportedly, RAFFWU attempted to get Apple management to discuss the issues the week of December 5, but Apple refuses to meet until February 2023.

"This Christmas strike is a way for our members to take back their time with family and friends," RAFFWU secretary Josh Cullinan told Reuters, "while management continues to refuse to give workers the most basic minimum rostering rights."

If it goes ahead, the strike is expected to feature 200 of Apple's approximately 4,000 employees in Australia. RAFFWU's Cullinan says that Apple management will be formally notified of the strike on Monday, December 12.

If it goes ahead, the strike is expected to feature 200 of Apple's approximately 4,000 employees in Australia. RAFFWU's Cullinan says that Apple management will be formally notified of the strike on Monday, December 12.

Reuters says that Apple declined to comment on the strike or current negotations. However, a spokesperson said that Apple was "proud to reward our valued team members in Australia with strong compensation and exceptional benefits."

Alongside the two-day walkout, Australian Apple Store workers will refuse to undertake iPhone and Apple Watch repairs in certain unspecified hours. They may also refuse to wear Apple's festive red t-shirt.

Read on AppleInsider
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 21
    omasouomasou Posts: 406member
    You don't like your job. Find a better one.
    iOS_Guy80bshankdewme
  • Reply 2 of 21
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,315member
    omasou said:
    You don't like your job. Find a better one.
    No, for unions it’s all about the inmates running the asylum. Marxist theory at work here.
    bshank
  • Reply 3 of 21
    omasou said:
    You don't like your job. Find a better one.
    They didn't say they didn't like their job. They may not like the pay or the (likely overnight) repair hours but love the rest.

    Fighting for improvements should always be an option.
    tokyojimuwatto_cobraFileMakerFellerJaiOh81grandact73
  • Reply 4 of 21
    omasouomasou Posts: 406member
    mknelson said:
    omasou said:
    You don't like your job. Find a better one.
    They didn't say they didn't like their job. They may not like the pay or the (likely overnight) repair hours but love the rest.

    Fighting for improvements should always be an option.

    No they want all of the benefits of working for Apple PLUS they want more. It's pure greed.

    The job is worth x dollars plus y benefits. If they can find a better combination somewhere else, then go or else shut up. It's similar to a new hire w/2 weeks of vacation complaining that an employee w/5 years has 30 days vacation. Guess what, stick around for 5 years and you will get that benefit too.

    Everyone thinks they are worth more. Guess what NO YOU AREN'T.

    If you want more pay works somewhere that offers more pay but you don't get employee discounts on Apple products.
    edited December 2022 bshank
  • Reply 5 of 21
    omasouomasou Posts: 406member
    lkrupp said:
    omasou said:
    You don't like your job. Find a better one.
    No, for unions it’s all about the inmates running the asylum. Marxist theory at work here.

    No unions are similar to organized crime. You have a few bosses, aka union reps, that reap the benefits of their position all while letting the inmate think they run the asylum. So yeah, Marxist theory hard at work.
  • Reply 6 of 21
    omasou said:
    lkrupp said:
    omasou said:
    You don't like your job. Find a better one.
    No, for unions it’s all about the inmates running the asylum. Marxist theory at work here.

    No unions corporations are similar to organized crime. You have a few bosses, aka union reps C-suite executives, that reap the benefits of their position all while letting the inmate think they run the asylum. So yeah, Marxist theory hard at work.
    FTFY
    ilarynxmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 7 of 21
    The worst employees at the Apple Store I used to work at now want to unionize. They harass people they don’t like, engage in subterfuge of management to undermine the company’s goals, and after 15 years feel entitled to just stay forever with piss poor behavior and attitudes. They are a detriment to the company and should have left at least 10 years prior to find better opportunities for themselves. Yet they have not. They want to hang out in the same retail store with their buddies to joke, undermine Apple, and continue to harass anybody they don’t like. Now they’ve partnered with the worst of the new employees who are just out of college and want a job for life. In addition a friend of the two biggest perpetrators became Leader of the Genius Bar and with those two perpetrators called the repair room “an HR free zone.” If you are a loser who makes bad decisions it is not Apple’s responsibility to give you a job for life so you can hone your hobby of harassment of other Apple employees, make fun of customers, and undermine Apple’s priorities. I for one absolutely do not support unionizing as I’ve seen what it can result in. 
    edited December 2022 jdwdewme
  • Reply 8 of 21

    omasou said:
    mknelson said:
    omasou said:
    You don't like your job. Find a better one.
    They didn't say they didn't like their job. They may not like the pay or the (likely overnight) repair hours but love the rest.

    Fighting for improvements should always be an option.

    No they want all of the benefits of working for Apple PLUS they want more. It's pure greed.

    The job is worth x dollars plus y benefits. If they can find a better combination somewhere else, then go or else shut up. It's similar to a new hire w/2 weeks of vacation complaining that an employee w/5 years has 30 days vacation. Guess what, stick around for 5 years and you will get that benefit too.

    Everyone thinks they are worth more. Guess what NO YOU AREN'T.

    If you want more pay works somewhere that offers more pay but you don't get employee discounts on Apple products.
    [emphasis added]

    "Before you criticise a man, first walk a mile in his shoes."

    I don't deny that greed is involved; then again greed is involved on both sides - the workers want to receive more, the company wants to keep more.

    But read the article again. The complaints revolve around wanting fixed rosters and for the wage to increase annually - historically the latter is not an unusual thing in Australia (especially for union workers) where a wage increase that matches the change in the Consumer Price Index ("CPI") is pretty common. Workers wanting their wage to keep place with inflation is not what I would classify as greed.

    Wanting a fixed roster is also not greed, it's part of wanting stability and predictability in your life - and it's virtually a requirement if you are a student undertaking tertiary studies or have dependents such as children or aged parents. It's hard to square Apple's commitment to improving people's lives with a policy that can in some cases be actively harmful.

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The labour laws in Australia are still quite protective of employees, but there are quirks: for example, past a certain number of hours per week a "casual" employee cannot have a fixed weekly roster but must instead transition to "permanent part-time" status if the roster is fixed - but if the roster rotates on a predictable basis on a multi-weekly cycle the employee can remain a casual (so working in the morning one Sunday and in the afternoon the following Sunday is enough to keep the casual status). Casual employees have all of the holiday benefits of permanent employees pro-rated into their hourly pay, so the short-term cashflow can be impacted by changing status.
    muthuk_vanalingamJaiOh81Hedware
  • Reply 9 of 21
    Any true career progression they hoped to have with Apple will be gone.  That is just the way it is 

    Good luck in your next endeavors 
  • Reply 10 of 21
    A thoughtful intelligent response from @FileMakerFeller (@kimberly in Brisbane). 
    muthuk_vanalingamJaiOh81
  • Reply 11 of 21
    bshank said:
    The worst employees at the Apple Store I used to work at now want to unionize. They harass people they don’t like, engage in subterfuge of management to undermine the company’s goals, and after 15 years feel entitled to just stay forever with piss poor behavior and attitudes. They are a detriment to the company and should have left at least 10 years prior to find better opportunities for themselves. Yet they have not. They want to hang out in the same retail store with their buddies to joke, undermine Apple, and continue to harass anybody they don’t like. Now they’ve partnered with the worst of the new employees who are just out of college and want a job for life. In addition a friend of the two biggest perpetrators became Leader of the Genius Bar and with those two perpetrators called the repair room “an HR free zone.” If you are a loser who makes bad decisions it is not Apple’s responsibility to give you a job for life so you can hone your hobby of harassment of other Apple employees, make fun of customers, and undermine Apple’s priorities. I for one absolutely do not support unionizing as I’ve seen what it can result in. 
    Sounds like the Manager of that store is doing a horrible, failing job of 1- hiring good people for the job, 2- actually managing his crew though example, education, etc., to bring out the best of the employees, and 3- failing to show poor performing employees the door. The most hilarious part is the charge of "greed" applied not to the C-suite or stockholders of the most profitable corporation on the planet, but to the retail employees!

    Most people whining about unions while enjoying the benefits of their own job, 40-hour work week, etc., are simply showing their ignorance of the subject as well as US history. 

    Back in the summer, Microsoft entered into a labor neutrality agreement which lets its employees “freely and fairly” unionize. That's the smart thing to do. Why is Apple acting so stupidly in this area?

    Whomever at Apple is responsible for their short-sighted and counter-productive anti-union policy, needs to be shown the door. 
    muthuk_vanalingamFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 12 of 21
    bshankbshank Posts: 252member
    ilarynx said:
    bshank said:
    The worst employees at the Apple Store I used to work at now want to unionize. They harass people they don’t like, engage in subterfuge of management to undermine the company’s goals, and after 15 years feel entitled to just stay forever with piss poor behavior and attitudes. They are a detriment to the company and should have left at least 10 years prior to find better opportunities for themselves. Yet they have not. They want to hang out in the same retail store with their buddies to joke, undermine Apple, and continue to harass anybody they don’t like. Now they’ve partnered with the worst of the new employees who are just out of college and want a job for life. In addition a friend of the two biggest perpetrators became Leader of the Genius Bar and with those two perpetrators called the repair room “an HR free zone.” If you are a loser who makes bad decisions it is not Apple’s responsibility to give you a job for life so you can hone your hobby of harassment of other Apple employees, make fun of customers, and undermine Apple’s priorities. I for one absolutely do not support unionizing as I’ve seen what it can result in. 
    Sounds like the Manager of that store is doing a horrible, failing job of 1- hiring good people for the job, 2- actually managing his crew though example, education, etc., to bring out the best of the employees, and 3- failing to show poor performing employees the door. The most hilarious part is the charge of "greed" applied not to the C-suite or stockholders of the most profitable corporation on the planet, but to the retail employees!

    Most people whining about unions while enjoying the benefits of their own job, 40-hour work week, etc., are simply showing their ignorance of the subject as well as US history. 

    Back in the summer, Microsoft entered into a labor neutrality agreement which lets its employees “freely and fairly” unionize. That's the smart thing to do. Why is Apple acting so stupidly in this area?

    Whomever at Apple is responsible for their short-sighted and counter-productive anti-union policy, needs to be shown the door. 
    The culture at Apple retail stores is very insular. These people have worked together for years and the Leader of the Genius Bar was promoted by the highest levels of management. These retail jobs are not meant to be life long jobs, unless you’re a store manager. The retail jobs are beginner level jobs that help people gain experience and move into good careers in tech. In fact a lot of Apple retail employees get promoted to work in Cupertino. Microsoft is a horrible comparison as they shut down all of their retail stores, so don’t have revolving door retail positions or jobs that are meant to be seasonal or for college kids or recent grads to get some experience in the working world. Unionizing only solidifies the insularity that leads to toxic cultures like I have described. To be blindly pro union is pure ideology and one of the bigger problems we have in this world. Enjoy feeling whatever moral high ground you believ you have with your ideology, but at the end of the day it is just your belief. It makes me wonder whether Elizabeth Warren had a Cyber Monday sale of her 100 Greatest Soundbites for all of her most fervent ideologues to use all over the internet to feel like they know what they’re talking about. But at the end of the day too many people are trapped in this ideological house of mirrors.
    FileMakerFeller
  • Reply 13 of 21
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,315member
    kimberly said:
    A thoughtful intelligent response from @FileMakerFeller (@kimberly in Brisbane). 
    I’d be interested to know if Australian labor law allows what is called a “closed shop”. In the U.S. In certain states , Illinois for example, the employee may choose not to join the union as a condition of employment BUT the employee still has union dues deducted from their paycheck anyway and the union still represents the employee in negotiation which is tantamount to forced union membership. Other states, mainly in the South, have what are called “right to work” laws where the employee can choose to join the union or not and not be forced to pay union dues or be represented by the union. In those states unions have much less clout because they have to convince prospective employees to join without forcing them to. Consequently a lot of manufacturing, especially automobile assembly plants, have moved south.
    edited December 2022 FileMakerFeller
  • Reply 14 of 21
    omasouomasou Posts: 406member

    omasou said:
    mknelson said:
    omasou said:
    You don't like your job. Find a better one.
    They didn't say they didn't like their job. They may not like the pay or the (likely overnight) repair hours but love the rest.

    Fighting for improvements should always be an option.

    No they want all of the benefits of working for Apple PLUS they want more. It's pure greed.

    The job is worth x dollars plus y benefits. If they can find a better combination somewhere else, then go or else shut up. It's similar to a new hire w/2 weeks of vacation complaining that an employee w/5 years has 30 days vacation. Guess what, stick around for 5 years and you will get that benefit too.

    Everyone thinks they are worth more. Guess what NO YOU AREN'T.

    If you want more pay works somewhere that offers more pay but you don't get employee discounts on Apple products.
    [emphasis added]

    "Before you criticise a man, first walk a mile in his shoes."

    I don't deny that greed is involved; then again greed is involved on both sides - the workers want to receive more, the company wants to keep more.

    But read the article again. The complaints revolve around wanting fixed rosters and for the wage to increase annually - historically the latter is not an unusual thing in Australia (especially for union workers) where a wage increase that matches the change in the Consumer Price Index ("CPI") is pretty common. Workers wanting their wage to keep place with inflation is not what I would classify as greed.

    Wanting a fixed roster is also not greed, it's part of wanting stability and predictability in your life - and it's virtually a requirement if you are a student undertaking tertiary studies or have dependents such as children or aged parents. It's hard to square Apple's commitment to improving people's lives with a policy that can in some cases be actively harmful.

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The labour laws in Australia are still quite protective of employees, but there are quirks: for example, past a certain number of hours per week a "casual" employee cannot have a fixed weekly roster but must instead transition to "permanent part-time" status if the roster is fixed - but if the roster rotates on a predictable basis on a multi-weekly cycle the employee can remain a casual (so working in the morning one Sunday and in the afternoon the following Sunday is enough to keep the casual status). Casual employees have all of the holiday benefits of permanent employees pro-rated into their hourly pay, so the short-term cashflow can be impacted by changing status.

    What you describe is an HR issue. I would hope Apple has proper escalation SoPs for unfair treatment by managers.

    As for CPI, when does any company provide an annual raise that keeps pace w/CPI? Not sure about Australia but in the US companies especially w/in the last 10 years and in my sector have standardized job descriptions and attempt to standardize pay for the job descriptions. Is it perfect? Are their exceptions? Of course.

    Everyone knows or should know the longer you stay at a company your pay will start to stagnate when comparing to the same jobs at another company or even a new hire at the same company. In the last year there was an exodus of long term employees b/c they found significant increases over their current salaries but over time their annual increase will level that out back to the median.
  • Reply 15 of 21
    omasouomasou Posts: 406member
    bshank said:
    The worst employees at the Apple Store I used to work at now want to unionize. They harass people they don’t like, engage in subterfuge of management to undermine the company’s goals, and after 15 years feel entitled to just stay forever with piss poor behavior and attitudes. They are a detriment to the company and should have left at least 10 years prior to find better opportunities for themselves. Yet they have not. They want to hang out in the same retail store with their buddies to joke, undermine Apple, and continue to harass anybody they don’t like. Now they’ve partnered with the worst of the new employees who are just out of college and want a job for life. In addition a friend of the two biggest perpetrators became Leader of the Genius Bar and with those two perpetrators called the repair room “an HR free zone.” If you are a loser who makes bad decisions it is not Apple’s responsibility to give you a job for life so you can hone your hobby of harassment of other Apple employees, make fun of customers, and undermine Apple’s priorities. I for one absolutely do not support unionizing as I’ve seen what it can result in. 

    What you describe is also a HR issue and would not be tolerated if brought to the attention of management and HR. In this instance "management" would be the mothership to deal w/the local fiefdom managers. Sounds like they should be put on a PIP.

    Unionizing will only cement the senior bad apples in their positions and make it impossible to remediate their behavior and/or terminate.

    I have this discussion way too many times. Typically, the issue is people and not the company and I see folks quit b/c their boss is an a** but complain about the "company".

    If "local management" are allowed to operate in an unprofessional manner then the "local employees" need to go over their head an get the right folks involved to correct the situation. If the does not resolve the situation the maybe yes it is a problem w/the company culture but you will not fix it. Time to leave and find a place that matches your expectations.
    edited December 2022 FileMakerFeller
  • Reply 16 of 21
    It’s disturbing that so many pricks here are okay with the wages of low level employees being kept stagnant and falling behind inflation and rises in the cost of living despite Apple benefiting from their work and increasing its profit margins. It is a right in Australia to form unions and for employees to be members of those unions. Otherwise Australia would have employers with the slave ownership mentality of US employers and corporations. 

    Employers in Australia are facing severe labour shortages and Apple is competing for employees who are in the position to ask for higher wages and better conditions. That’s how capitalism works in labour markets. Seems you ignorant lot have forgotten your economics and instead rely on anti-employee rants. 

    Apple is going to meet its match in Australia. Apple wants Australia as a market in case any of you numskulls start your usual bleating that Apple should simply withdraw from markets that aren’t playing to Apple’s songsheet. Just in case you numskulls have forgotten,  Facebook lost in trying to take on the Australian Government. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 17 of 21
    omasou said:
    bshank said:
    The worst employees at the Apple Store I used to work at now want to unionize. They harass people they don’t like, engage in subterfuge of management to undermine the company’s goals, and after 15 years feel entitled to just stay forever with piss poor behavior and attitudes. They are a detriment to the company and should have left at least 10 years prior to find better opportunities for themselves. Yet they have not. They want to hang out in the same retail store with their buddies to joke, undermine Apple, and continue to harass anybody they don’t like. Now they’ve partnered with the worst of the new employees who are just out of college and want a job for life. In addition a friend of the two biggest perpetrators became Leader of the Genius Bar and with those two perpetrators called the repair room “an HR free zone.” If you are a loser who makes bad decisions it is not Apple’s responsibility to give you a job for life so you can hone your hobby of harassment of other Apple employees, make fun of customers, and undermine Apple’s priorities. I for one absolutely do not support unionizing as I’ve seen what it can result in. 

    What you describe is also a HR issue and would not be tolerated if brought to the attention of management and HR. In this instance "management" would be the mothership to deal w/the local fiefdom managers. Sounds like they should be put on a PIP.

    Unionizing will only cement the senior bad apples in their positions and make it impossible to remediate their behavior and/or terminate.

    I have this discussion way too many times. Typically, the issue is people and not the company and I see folks quit b/c their boss is an a** but complain about the "company".

    If "local management" are allowed to operate in an unprofessional manner then the "local employees" need to go over their head an get the right folks involved to correct the situation. If the does not resolve the situation the maybe yes it is a problem w/the company culture but you will not fix it. Time to leave and find a place that matches your expectations.

    I tried

  • Reply 18 of 21
    For those who are not enlightened, it was Australian unions who established the principle of 8 hours work, 8 hours play and 8 hours rest which was then adopted by the rest of the world. If you enjoy being with your family and sleep, you should pay your respects to my ancestors who fought and died to make everybody’s lives better—even the born on third libertarians.
  • Reply 19 of 21
    bshank said:
    ilarynx said:
    bshank said:
    The worst employees at the Apple Store I used to work at now want to unionize. They harass people they don’t like, engage in subterfuge of management to undermine the company’s goals, and after 15 years feel entitled to just stay forever with piss poor behavior and attitudes. They are a detriment to the company and should have left at least 10 years prior to find better opportunities for themselves. Yet they have not. They want to hang out in the same retail store with their buddies to joke, undermine Apple, and continue to harass anybody they don’t like. Now they’ve partnered with the worst of the new employees who are just out of college and want a job for life. In addition a friend of the two biggest perpetrators became Leader of the Genius Bar and with those two perpetrators called the repair room “an HR free zone.” If you are a loser who makes bad decisions it is not Apple’s responsibility to give you a job for life so you can hone your hobby of harassment of other Apple employees, make fun of customers, and undermine Apple’s priorities. I for one absolutely do not support unionizing as I’ve seen what it can result in. 
    Sounds like the Manager of that store is doing a horrible, failing job of 1- hiring good people for the job, 2- actually managing his crew though example, education, etc., to bring out the best of the employees, and 3- failing to show poor performing employees the door. The most hilarious part is the charge of "greed" applied not to the C-suite or stockholders of the most profitable corporation on the planet, but to the retail employees!

    Most people whining about unions while enjoying the benefits of their own job, 40-hour work week, etc., are simply showing their ignorance of the subject as well as US history. 

    Back in the summer, Microsoft entered into a labor neutrality agreement which lets its employees “freely and fairly” unionize. That's the smart thing to do. Why is Apple acting so stupidly in this area?

    Whomever at Apple is responsible for their short-sighted and counter-productive anti-union policy, needs to be shown the door. 
    The culture at Apple retail stores is very insular. These people have worked together for years and the Leader of the Genius Bar was promoted by the highest levels of management. These retail jobs are not meant to be life long jobs, unless you’re a store manager. The retail jobs are beginner level jobs that help people gain experience and move into good careers in tech. In fact a lot of Apple retail employees get promoted to work in Cupertino. Microsoft is a horrible comparison as they shut down all of their retail stores, so don’t have revolving door retail positions or jobs that are meant to be seasonal or for college kids or recent grads to get some experience in the working world. Unionizing only solidifies the insularity that leads to toxic cultures like I have described. To be blindly pro union is pure ideology and one of the bigger problems we have in this world. Enjoy feeling whatever moral high ground you believ you have with your ideology, but at the end of the day it is just your belief. It makes me wonder whether Elizabeth Warren had a Cyber Monday sale of her 100 Greatest Soundbites for all of her most fervent ideologues to use all over the internet to feel like they know what they’re talking about. But at the end of the day too many people are trapped in this ideological house of mirrors.
    A simple reading of these posts clearly demonstrates the one who is blindly "absolutist" and ideological regarding unions. 
  • Reply 20 of 21
    bshankbshank Posts: 252member
    ilarynx said:
    bshank said:
    ilarynx said:
    bshank said:
    The worst employees at the Apple Store I used to work at now want to unionize. They harass people they don’t like, engage in subterfuge of management to undermine the company’s goals, and after 15 years feel entitled to just stay forever with piss poor behavior and attitudes. They are a detriment to the company and should have left at least 10 years prior to find better opportunities for themselves. Yet they have not. They want to hang out in the same retail store with their buddies to joke, undermine Apple, and continue to harass anybody they don’t like. Now they’ve partnered with the worst of the new employees who are just out of college and want a job for life. In addition a friend of the two biggest perpetrators became Leader of the Genius Bar and with those two perpetrators called the repair room “an HR free zone.” If you are a loser who makes bad decisions it is not Apple’s responsibility to give you a job for life so you can hone your hobby of harassment of other Apple employees, make fun of customers, and undermine Apple’s priorities. I for one absolutely do not support unionizing as I’ve seen what it can result in. 
    Sounds like the Manager of that store is doing a horrible, failing job of 1- hiring good people for the job, 2- actually managing his crew though example, education, etc., to bring out the best of the employees, and 3- failing to show poor performing employees the door. The most hilarious part is the charge of "greed" applied not to the C-suite or stockholders of the most profitable corporation on the planet, but to the retail employees!

    Most people whining about unions while enjoying the benefits of their own job, 40-hour work week, etc., are simply showing their ignorance of the subject as well as US history. 

    Back in the summer, Microsoft entered into a labor neutrality agreement which lets its employees “freely and fairly” unionize. That's the smart thing to do. Why is Apple acting so stupidly in this area?

    Whomever at Apple is responsible for their short-sighted and counter-productive anti-union policy, needs to be shown the door. 
    The culture at Apple retail stores is very insular. These people have worked together for years and the Leader of the Genius Bar was promoted by the highest levels of management. These retail jobs are not meant to be life long jobs, unless you’re a store manager. The retail jobs are beginner level jobs that help people gain experience and move into good careers in tech. In fact a lot of Apple retail employees get promoted to work in Cupertino. Microsoft is a horrible comparison as they shut down all of their retail stores, so don’t have revolving door retail positions or jobs that are meant to be seasonal or for college kids or recent grads to get some experience in the working world. Unionizing only solidifies the insularity that leads to toxic cultures like I have described. To be blindly pro union is pure ideology and one of the bigger problems we have in this world. Enjoy feeling whatever moral high ground you believ you have with your ideology, but at the end of the day it is just your belief. It makes me wonder whether Elizabeth Warren had a Cyber Monday sale of her 100 Greatest Soundbites for all of her most fervent ideologues to use all over the internet to feel like they know what they’re talking about. But at the end of the day too many people are trapped in this ideological house of mirrors.
    A simple reading of these posts clearly demonstrates the one who is blindly "absolutist" and ideological regarding unions. 
    Silly, since I used to be fully pro union. I have been very left and anti corporate and after being on the inside I have seen with my own eyes things that have caused me to question my thinking and come to different conclusions given new information. My profession is not allowed to unionize, so I have been very pro union and even canvassed for Democratic candidates over the years to promote such ideologies. I haven’t become a total right wing loon, but I can certainly see the other side of an issue and am proud to say that I have expanded my views and try to see the world in all of its complexity. I used to drink that koolaid but it’s an over simplistic way of seeing people, issues, the world, etc. I have come to the conclusion that not all jobs need to have a union. It’s much more complex that your barb implies yet also a pretty simple
    concept.
    omasouFileMakerFeller
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