Panther and the PPC970
If I understand things correctly the Mac OS will have to have some sort of update for it to run on the PPC970, correct. If so either 10.2.5 is 970 ready, or we are not going to see new PowerMacs untill after september when panther comes out. So what do you guys think, is there a possibility that 10.2.5 has been updated to work with the PPC970? Or is apple going to wait and release another update later. It just seems like something Steve would do, update the OS to work with the new CPU and not tell anybody. LOL
Either way we will have to have some sort of update for the 970 to work...why not 10.2.5?
Either way we will have to have some sort of update for the 970 to work...why not 10.2.5?
Comments
This is due to localisation for the packaged software. There are facts that point to a June release of the 970 in the PowerMacs and possibly PowerBooks.
The fact that SJ will keynote and Apple has announced 10.3, its most likely that the 970 support is in 10.3 and NOT 10.2.5 - which has consistent OS updates.
Remember, why would you require 970 support in 10.2.5 when you do not have a 970 in your computer? 8)
If Apple is to optimizing 10.3 for the 970 with 64-bit code, which I would consider a sure thing, I would consider it safe to guess that we will see the releases of them go hand in hand. Not only will they want to blow people away with the raw power of the 970, but they'll also want everyone to see how well the new version of OS X runs on it with the 64-bit code. Apple will want people to see how 64-bits will make a difference, using it as a selling point (as if they needed one with all the hype so far), and you'll see the difference if the OS has that 64-bit code. It'll be a significantly lesser blow if the 970 comes first and the OS makes no use of the 64-bits, aka if we're still at 10.2.5 or 10.2.6 (adding 64-bit code sounds like way too much for a double point release). True, the 32-bit performance of the 970 is outstanding, no doubt about it, but the 64-bits will be marketed as a breakthough, and they'll want the OS to affirm that.
What about a 970 tower running 10.26 and then FREE upgrade to 10.3 to those 970 tower owners?
Like I said, I don't think a double point release (10.2.6) will contain loads of new 64-bit code, and putting out a 970 without an OS to take advantage of the 64-bits of the processor would be as impressive as a TKO by the underdog. A 970 with a 64-bit Panther would be a thirty second knock-out punch. I would rather to see the knockout. Just my opinion.
Sure it's possible to have the 970 first, but that's just not as much fun.
Who knows for sure? 10.2 may have 64-bit code hidden in it somewhere and the 82MB of updates from 10.2 to 10.2.5 are partly bug fixes and partly additions to the 64-bit code path. But again, who actually knows what's in the OS code?¿?¿
I don't know for sure either way. But I hope that they haven't been putting the time and effort this past year adding 64-bit code when they should have been optimizing the current 32-bit code and eliminating bugs and improving performance and closing security holes, especially when it would just sitting there going unused with the G4. It would be useless code for a long time, so it seems more logical to just save it for implementation into Panther for when the code will be put to use, rather than spending the time and energy cramming it into each double point release so we can all waste our time downloading it to bloat our system with. 64-bit code is a major thing. Double point releases don't get major things.
Apple doesn't need to add loads of 64-bit code to their OS to make it work on a 970. All that's needed is "minimal" modifications to the kernel (and/or other low-level code), to make the 970 work. And it doens't need to be optimized, refined and tweaked alot to allow the 970 to perform like we we've heard so much about.
Apple can very well update their OS to allow it to run on the 970, with a double-point release. A full 64-bit OS, is probably something that'll need a major upgrade, but they do not need that to release the 970. If the new, fast, saviour processor arrives long enough before 64-bit OS X, Apple will not want to have to wait for a big release of the software, when they so anxiously want to show us that macs have reclaimed the speed throne (or whatever they'll market the intro of the 970 as).
I believe that if the 970 is out early enough, the first boxes will ship with 10.2.x.
I think it would make sense if 10.3 ships in August/September and the 970 is announced at Macworld but doesn't ship until it can go with 10.3. Imagine how it coud be announced at Macworld. All the hype about 10.3 (built partially by what's confirmed at WWDC) and then the announcement about the 970 and then on top of that that the 970 will ship at the same time as 10.3. It just seems like a very Apple thing to do. They'd make the most of the spotlight put on them, to simultaineusly show off their new chip to those most interested in the operating system and show off the new operating system to those most interested in the 970.
All that's needed is "minimal" modifications to the kernel (and/or other low-level code), to make the 970 work. And it doens't need to be optimized, refined and tweaked alot to allow the 970 to perform like we we've heard so much about.
Right -- only minimal changes would be required to get OS X working in 32-bit mode. And those are probably related more to the chipset than the CPU.
But -- full 64-bit support could be quite a bit more work, depending on how 64-bit clean Apple's APIs are. I'm purely speculating, but I could imagine Carbon having big issues.
Ideally, Apple would ship a native 64-bit OS with a 64-bit filesystem and a 64-bit Finder. Worst case is that its 90% 32-bit, with just enough 64-bit stuff for benchmarketing (think the early days of PowerPC).
Im thinking its likely to have 64bit support for the 970 and strongly marketed by Apple the fact.
The machines can still ship with 10.3 preloaded, as they have done in the past (of course at Apple's now legendary delivery times - you can get a 970 Pmac in about 6 weeks from announcement).
If not wake me up when the 970 PM is announced. 8)
Originally posted by Zapchud
Apple can very well update their OS to allow it to run on the 970, with a double-point release. A full 64-bit OS, is probably something that'll need a major upgrade, but they do not need that to release the 970.
Absolutely. Keep in mind that they will have been running some QA prototype systems for several months before full production begins on the PPC970. This would be tough to do should they have to wait for a full upgrade of the OS.
Remember 10.0, 10.1, 10.2? When they were all at the .0.0.0 states there were tons of bugs
Also, brand new hardware also has bugs (remember the rev A B/W G3 and rev A Sawtooth?)
Buggy OS + buggy hardware = Biggest PR nightmere ever
Not a good idea
Safter bet is having an exisiting OS running on brand new hardware. I would rather running an older, "bug proof" OS on a new hardware than everything new. No matter how fast the hardware is if the OS keeps crashing that's counter-productive.
Apple should release a new OS with the 970 because the 970 will need a new OS to take full advantage of it. Its a risk they're going to have to take but it's not as if they're starting from scratch as they were with 10.0. I trust Apple will get it right and be certain that the next big thing in computers is as flawless as possible.
Originally posted by IntlHarvester
Right -- only minimal changes would be required to get OS X working in 32-bit mode. And those are probably related more to the chipset than the CPU.
But -- full 64-bit support could be quite a bit more work, depending on how 64-bit clean Apple's APIs are. I'm purely speculating, but I could imagine Carbon having big issues.
Ideally, Apple would ship a native 64-bit OS with a 64-bit filesystem and a 64-bit Finder. Worst case is that its 90% 32-bit, with just enough 64-bit stuff for benchmarketing (think the early days of PowerPC).
If Apple has been adding 64-bit PowerPC support to OS X in these past months, shouldn't we be able to tell by looking at Darwin headers/implementation files/whatever?
I think they've probably been adding 64-bit support to Jaguar--after all they needed an OS to test these machines with, right?--but they kept everything in-house, so as not to spoil the surprise. Personally I wouldn't care if the 970 and Panther were two announcements distant from each other, since I don't think there'd be any performance penalty running Jaguar on the 970--but sure, announcing the two things together would make for a nice PR coup(sp?)!
970 and new mobo support, plus a 64-bit clean Darwin/BSD core wouldn't justify a new point release, IMO, a double-digit would do. Add to that a new FS and a 64-bit clean Cocoa... that'd be quite a Panther!
BTW, I hope Apple is going to encourage developers in the coming years to switch to Cocoa from Carbon by keeping the latter 32-bit while giving Cocoa apps full 64-bit support.
ZoSo
If I understand things correctly the Mac OS will have to have some sort of update for it to run on the PPC970, correct.
Most likely, yes.
If so either 10.2.5 is 970 ready,
Why would they put 970 support in a point release that is at least two and a half months away from the first 970?
(What, you're saying the 970 will be out before June?
or we are not going to see new PowerMacs untill after september when panther comes out.
I have yet to read a press release from Apple stating that Panther is due out in September. It might as well be due out in July or August. Or December. Or February, next year.
So what do you guys think, is there a possibility that 10.2.5 has been updated to work with the PPC970?
Yes, there is. But judging from the rather minor changes in core system component files, I doubt it.
Either way we will have to have some sort of update for the 970 to work...why not 10.2.5?
Might as well have been 10.2.3 already.