Apple chipmaking stumbles led to less impressive iPhone 14 Pro

Posted:
in iPhone edited December 2022
A mistake in developing the A16 Bionic may have led Apple to release a less performative processor for the iPhone 14 Pro, which may be indicative of issues within Apple's chip team.

The iPhone 14 Pro could have been even more capable, says report
The iPhone 14 Pro could have been even more capable, says report


The iPhone 14 Pro uses the A16 Bionic, and despite being one of the most powerful chipsets in a smartphone, it could have been better. Benchmarks show a modest increase in performance year-over-year, and new information suggests it could have been a bigger jump.

According to The Information, Apple's chipmaking team has been going through a lot of internal turmoil. This may have led to the A16 Bionic having a significant change introduced late in development -- at least according to four anonymous sources.

The report says that Apple had planned a generational leap for the A16 Bionic, but early prototypes drew more power than what the company had expected based on software simulations. The high power draw could have affected battery life and made the device run too hot.

Due to this discovery late in development, the A16 Bionic had to be built based on the graphics used in the A15. Originally, the A16 would have introduced Ray Tracing capabilities to iPhone software.

The A16 Bionic had been rumored to be being developed on the 4nm process but was released on the 5nm process. This change seems to corroborate The Information's story, though it was only a rumor.

Apple also oddly released the iPhone 14 and iPhone 14 Max with the A15 Bionic, not the A16. If the A16 didn't differentiate enough from the A15, it could explain Apple's decision to reuse the chip.

"Apple is still above market expectations for generation-over-generation performance for its chips. However, that has been slowing," said Ian Cutress, chief analyst at More Than Moore, a semiconductor analyst firm. "Given where they stand in terms of people and manufacturing, it's a question mark whether they'll be able to maintain their rate of growth."

The Information continues its story with a history of lawsuits and employee departures that have affected Apple's chipmaking team. Johny Srouji continues to be in charge, however, and Apple hasn't commented on any of these allegations publicly.

Read on AppleInsider
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 34
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
     according to four anonymous sources

    Fire Johny Srouji NOW!

    Just getting ahead of the gang. /s
    edited December 2022 williamlondonwatto_cobramacxpressspock1234jony0
  • Reply 2 of 34
    eriamjheriamjh Posts: 1,645member
    If this is true, it explains why the iPhone 14 still has the old chip: they had to differentiate the plain from the Pro.  
    watto_cobralkrupp
  • Reply 3 of 34
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,869member
    Ok……:) Less performance in comparison to which competitor who?
    darbus69williamlondonlollivern2itivguywatto_cobralkruppjas99jony0
  • Reply 4 of 34
    Wonder if this affected the M2 numbers that have been showing up. They seem more in line with what one would expect from Intel than Apple. And like Intel, they can’t seem to deliver on a year-to-year schedule. 
    williamlondonlkrupp
  • Reply 5 of 34
    bageljoeybageljoey Posts: 2,004member
    danox said:
    Ok……:) Less performance in comparison to which competitor who?
    Apple’s best competition is themselves. 
    It’s less than they planned for/wanted it to be.
    watto_cobraelijahglkruppviclauyycjony0
  • Reply 6 of 34
    badmonkbadmonk Posts: 1,295member
    sounds like Apple made the best decision (again) to minimize heat & maximize battery life.

    trust the process.
    williamlondonlolliverJinTechnetroxwatto_cobralkruppjas99spock1234MisterKitJFC_PA
  • Reply 7 of 34
    thttht Posts: 5,450member
    The A16 Bionic had been rumored to be being developed on the 4nm process but was released on the 5nm process. This change seems to corroborate The Information's story, though it was only a rumor.
    Apple touts that A16 Bionic is fabbed on TSMC 4nm. This sentence would make more sense if you used TSMC 3nm.

    A full node change is essentially the Moore's law doubling of transistors, give or take. Chip vendors would typically have to change their designs to adapt to the new node, such as going from TSMC 5nm to 3nm. With half node changes, they can typically keep the design rules for 5nm, but enjoy something like a 10 to 20% increase in transistor count, 5 to 15% power reduction, or some combination. I suppose TSMC 4nm can be considered an enhanced TSMC 5nm, with better transistor density, but just call it TSMC 4nm.

    Calling it 5nm makes it sound like there isn't improvement, and that's factually incorrect. It's a half node improvement that TSMC has done for basically a decade now.

    If in 2021, Apple was expecting TSMC 3nm to be in mass production by summer of 2022, which would be in time for fall iPhone shipments, they would have designed a chip given TSMC 3nm capabilities, like hardware ray tracing features. Once TSMC and Apple saw that 3nm was going to make it on time, and they would have figured it out in 2021, they would fallback to the half node step, TSMC 4nm, and get the typical half node improvements, like 10 to 15% performance, 10 to 15% less power, some combination.

    Strategically, I kind of think the Jade C die (M1 Max), Jade C chop (M1 Pro), Jade 2C (M1 Ultra), and the failed Jade 4C was a mistake. It didn't scale in the manner that buyers wanted. The M1 Max and on down appear fine. The M1 Ultra and on up? There have been issues. Apple's designed itself into a box that can't get them to ship higher end machines. That's a bigger issue than TSMC being late.
    watto_cobratenthousandthingsdewmelkruppAnilu_777viclauyyc
  • Reply 8 of 34
    badmonk said:
    sounds like Apple made the best decision (again) to minimize heat & maximize battery life.

    trust the process.
    Apple making a CPU that is barely faster than the A15 doesn't sound like the best decision.  So for the past few years, their A chips have been barely faster than the previous version.  Same with the M chips too.  They all have the same single-core score, 1700s, for the M1, M1 Pro, M1 Max, and M1 Ultra.  Then the M2 rolls out and it isn't much faster than the M1, but improves on the GPU.  Meanwhile, Apple has yet to put the M2 into the mini and iMac to improve those systems, in which the mini is now two years old with no updates, and the iMac is over a year old with no updates.  Instead, they put the M2 into an iPad with a hobbled operating system that doesn't fully support the potential of the chip.  It is like Apple's roadmap is completely off course.  The Intel transition was completed in 270 days.  Apple Silicon is 3 years and counting, and still not done yet (They don't know how to build a Mac Pro with better GPU performance than the current high performance GPU cards available for that system).
    elijahgurahara
  • Reply 9 of 34
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 1,480member
    It sounds like some of the folks the got from Intel were trying to turn Apple into Intel with hot chips that can replace a room heater. 
    watto_cobralkrupp
  • Reply 10 of 34
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,372member
    My "glass half full" hope is that Apple started ramping up the iPhone 15 development and staffing earlier than normal and is planning to make it a blockbuster release. This required scaling back their ambitions for the iPhone 14 since it is really more of a sustainment strategy than a step change. I'm still quite happy with my Xs Max, but I'm actively planning on jumping on the next iPhone update cycle, which conveniently aligns with my 5-year upgrade plan. It's a done deal, unless Apple does something totally out of character or something totally outside of their control gets in the way. Upgrading at 5-year intervals provides quite the rush.
    watto_cobraScot1
  • Reply 11 of 34
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,339member
    lkrupp said:
     according to four anonymous sources

    Fire Johny Srouji NOW!

    Just getting ahead of the gang. /s
    I suppose he is fully responsible, but I found this quote from the WSJ article on Srouji to be of interest...

    "Mr. Srouji is known for demanding hard truths with the axiom that his meetings focus on problems, not successes."
    watto_cobrajas99Applejacs
  • Reply 12 of 34
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,168member
    Sounds like a mixed up story to me.
    I have  wouldn’t be surprised that in the supply constrained environment of most of last year Apple did not go for a greatly faster chip. It didn’t have to either, with the last three generations still outperforming competitors.

    Maybe the shenanigans in the chip design team is simply that, bad management and unresolved staffing issues. So Execs turfed the managers.

    And perhaps the hardware Ray tracing problems are more why we don’t yet have a Mac Pro, or updated desktop macs.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 34
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,759member
    tht said:
    Calling it 5nm makes it sound like there isn't improvement, and that's factually incorrect. It's a half node improvement that TSMC has done for basically a decade now.

    If in 2021, Apple was expecting TSMC 3nm to be in mass production by summer of 2022, which would be in time for fall iPhone shipments, they would have designed a chip given TSMC 3nm capabilities, like hardware ray tracing features. Once TSMC and Apple saw that 3nm was going to make it on time, and they would have figured it out in 2021, they would fallback to the half node step, TSMC 4nm, and get the typical half node improvements, like 10 to 15% performance, 10 to 15% less power, some combination.

    Strategically, I kind of think the Jade C die (M1 Max), Jade C chop (M1 Pro), Jade 2C (M1 Ultra), and the failed Jade 4C was a mistake. It didn't scale in the manner that buyers wanted. The M1 Max and on down appear fine. The M1 Ultra and on up? There have been issues. Apple's designed itself into a box that can't get them to ship higher end machines. That's a bigger issue than TSMC being late.
    Good analysis. Designing themselves into a box was my concern right from day 1 of the Intel -> ARM switch. Apple's CPU team had the advantage that they could design their own architecture which meant specific hardware optimisations for Swift, Javascript, low power, AI etc and then not worry about backwards compatibility. This gave them a huge jump ahead performance wise right out of the gate with M1. However, that is a once-only jump. Future improvements are incremental, optimising aspects of the silicon and adding hardware to improve particular software functions. Apple does still have an advantage with this as they write the compiler so they can remove lesser-used silicon and emulate it in software if they want to keep the die size down, keep backwards compatibility and add new instructions to the silicon.

    Apple's CPU team is tiny compared to Intel's or AMD's. Generational Apple Silicon speed improvements are nothing like they were, and in many ways the M2 was a disappointment. I don't think we're going to see Apple staying so far ahead of Intel on the performance front. Power consumption wise though Apple will always have the lead as they don't have a huge amount of silicon dedicated to RISCifying the complex CISC x86 instructions.
    edited December 2022 dewme
  • Reply 14 of 34
    Remote work = less productivity. Get everyone back to their campus already. 
    Madbum9secondkox2aderutterwilliamlondonwatto_cobraMisterKit
  • Reply 15 of 34
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,808member
    clexman said:
    Remote work = less productivity. Get everyone back to their campus already. 
    How do you know their silicon team wasn't already working at Apple Park?
    elijahgwatto_cobrauraharatwokatmew
  • Reply 16 of 34
    jdw said:
    lkrupp said:
     according to four anonymous sources

    Fire Johny Srouji NOW!

    Just getting ahead of the gang. /s
    I suppose he is fully responsible, but I found this quote from the WSJ article on Srouji to be of interest...

    "Mr. Srouji is known for demanding hard truths with the axiom that his meetings focus on problems, not successes."
    Who else spends time in meetings on problems that are already solved?
  • Reply 17 of 34
    I wonder if this is due to Apple laziness, perhaps because of staff working from home and not in the office, with far greater interaction.  I have noticed what I perceive to be lazy programming with beta software updates.  Basic features such as phone calls or text messages don’t work and almost every app on my watch has failed at some point during the last round of updates.  Even things corrected by the public version now don’t work again.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 18 of 34
    MadbumMadbum Posts: 536member
    Lol I think Qualcomm or Samsung wish they can “ stumble” like Apple
    jas99watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 34
    MadbumMadbum Posts: 536member
    No more this idiotic remote work
    williamlondonwatto_cobraspock1234
  • Reply 20 of 34
    I have a question for the more technically knowledgeable folks. I keep seeing the “designed itself into a box” idea trotted out. I’m curious why people would think that the M series chips would be subject to that kind of bind, when it’s reasonable to say the the A-series hasn’t in many iterations. It’s clear the architecture itself has room to grow — multiple billion-dollar companies have ARM-based commercial and consumer initiatives in place.

    So given that Apple’s teams now have multiple generations of chip and hardware design experience to draw upon, and a culture that doesn’t rest, why should anyone think this is a screw-up, rather than the natural design process and temporary technological limitations? I’m sure we’re all well aware just how difficult it is to create and implement leaps in chip tech, and that one of the keys to success has always been in how well the software leverages those advances into significant improvements for end-users.

    I’m genuinely… mystified… by the doom-seekers that look for any sign of internal dysfunction to point to as a sign of the impending apocalyptic collapse of Apple or its desicion-making. It’s been decades since Apple was “beleaguered” to death. Why do folks still fall into this mental trap? It’s practically a TV Trope. (In fact, the second I post this, I’m going to look over on the site.)

    Sincerely, 

    Really Confused Reader

    PS - I own a 14 Pro Max and from my point of view it’s no less impressive than other generations have been. The experience of using is full of both delight, productivity, and creativity. I’m one of those folks that flips their phone every generation, as it’s the computer I get the most work out of besides my work machine. Other family members updating from the 11 Pro Max and the 12 have also been suitably happy with their purchase decision.

    Also, per the odd comments on the M1 and M2, we have multiple machines here for work that span both Mac and PC generations, including the latest. The M-series are machines consistently the best performing on almost every metric, and the most pleasant to use. From a real world use pov, I just don’t get the comments. (Or the idea that a product could be ‘less impressive’ if no company has released something more impressive. It’s like comparing an athlete’s performance to what they’ve done in the past — circumstances are completely different and variables are hard to control. The only metric that counts is if they win. It’s nice to set a record, but that in no way detracts from the accomplishment of winning against other elite athletes. Unless you’re truly jaded, I guess.
    edited December 2022 Madbumscout6900jas99coolfactorwatto_cobraspock1234
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