muthuk_vanalingam said: Hang on - Why would ANY company "discontinue" a product IF it had succeeded in the market place????
Something to keep in mind: the tech press generally treated Alexa speakers from Amazon as being the winners in the market (pricing/sales volume) and Amazon is currently gutting the Alexa speaker group within the company...because it generated such large losses.
muthuk_vanalingam said: Hang on - Why would ANY company "discontinue" a product IF it had succeeded in the market place????
Something to keep in mind: the tech press generally treated Alexa speakers from Amazon as being the winners in the market (pricing/sales volume) and Amazon is currently gutting the Alexa speaker group within the company...because it generated such large losses.
Forget tech press for a moment. What is your definition of "succeeding in the market place"? I see that @AppleZulu has given a different explanation for the OG Homepod to be discontinued. I am not sure I would agree with that explanation either. Someone who tracked Apple's revenue splitup by category very closely would be able to make a better logical explanation on whether OG HomePod succeeded in the market place or not. As far as I could recollect, the category in which HomePod was included did not see any noticeable growth in revenue in that year. But I could be wrong as well on that.
Maybe this model won’t shit the bed and Apple will claim nothing is wrong. Hard pass.
Shit the bed? I am listening to my OG launch homepod as I am working and writing this? I also have a couple of mini's in the house all updated to 16.3 and running fine.
You’re lucky. There have been multiple threads about the OG being defective. My HomePod Mini’s are great and I’m racking my brain for a reason to buy a couple more, but me and quite a few others are disappointed, not in the OG HomePod but Apples ambivalence to there being an issue requiring a fix for virtually the cost of a new one.
Wow. This one is a head scratcher for me. I can't ever remember a tech product failing in the market and then being brought back shortly after in essentially identical form.
Uh - maybe because it didn't fail?
Apple never made any statements about poor sells, or how it did in the market. Apple never made any statements about why the 1st gen was discontinued.
So what do you base your "failing in the market" statement on? Hopefully not ANALyst who pull shit out of their ass...
PS - we have 8 x 1st gen HomePods.
It failed. It was too expensive (why else did Apple cut the price? Apple never cuts prices), and restricted to Apple’s own ecosystem. Those issues haven’t been resolved but at least it’s$m $50 less than the old one, though missing some hardware soo really about the same price.
Besides, just before it was discontinued people were buying them and the serial number indicated a manufacturing date of 2018. You think Apple wanted to have HomePods sat around in warehouses for 3 years unsold?
No proof in your statement that it failed. You're welcome to your opinion, but no evidence provided.
Billions of people in Apple's ecosystem. For most, that's not a con & definitely not any indication of failure.
"Those issues haven't been resolved" - what issues? All of ours work just fine, and were purchased from release date until discontinue date of the 1st gen. Most of ours are definitely from different production batches - we generally bought one at a time, and only 1 x pair purchased together.
Sure Apple cuts prices. New Mac mini M2 is $100 cheaper than previous version. The new HomePod is released at $50 cheaper than the previous version release price.
So people got old inventory? So what? Doesn't mean there was old inventory everywhere or that old inventory was the only inventory.
People always want to jump to conclusions...
I literally provided proof which you chose to ignore.
Apple doesn’t cut prices of products mid-cycle.
You’re evidently clueless as to how warehousing works. You really think Apple shoves new stock at the front of a massive shelf in their warehouse then only pick from the front so that inventory never gets turned over? Apple’s well known for its tight inventory control, stock sat in warehouses costs money. In any case why have people never received old stock with any other product?
Why did Apple cancel it if it was anything but a failure?
You’re making the most absurd statements to try and support your ridiculous conclusion despite all the evidence pointing to the contrary.
Wow. This one is a head scratcher for me. I can't ever remember a tech product failing in the market and then being brought back shortly after in essentially identical form.
Uh - maybe because it didn't fail?
Apple never made any statements about poor sells, or how it did in the market. Apple never made any statements about why the 1st gen was discontinued.
So what do you base your "failing in the market" statement on? Hopefully not ANALyst who pull shit out of their ass...
PS - we have 8 x 1st gen HomePods.
Hang on - Why would ANY company "discontinue" a product IF it had succeeded in the market place????
Component availability, production capacity availability, etc. COVID was happening...
Or, new model, but same issues as above to get it to market...
Plenty of reasons other than "failing in the market".
And none of us really know why, because Apple generally doesn't share that type of information.
The bolded points do not make any sense or whatsoever. Apple's strength is in supply chain management. The excuse that Apple discontinued a successful product due to component shortage is silly. Do you have ANY data from Apple's quarterly reports after OG Homepod's launch to even show anecdotal evidence for the success of Homepad in market place? Failing that, you are the ANALyst in this thread.
Component availability, production capacity availability, etc. COVID was happening...
Yeah the 2018 manufacture date of HomePods delivered in 2021 really supports that theory too. I know, maybe they couldn't get components so they had to use their backup supply from 2018? Looking forward to how you twist that one.
muthuk_vanalingam said: Forget tech press for a moment. What is your definition of "succeeding in the market place"? I see that @AppleZulu has given a different explanation for the OG Homepod to be discontinued. I am not sure I would agree with that explanation either. Someone who tracked Apple's revenue splitup by category very closely would be able to make a better logical explanation on whether OG HomePod succeeded in the market place or not. As far as I could recollect, the category in which HomePod was included did not see any noticeable growth in revenue in that year. But I could be wrong as well on that.
The OG HomePod was always being compared to Alexa speakers and the comparison almost always resulted in something along the lines of "lower price = better sales = better strategy". That comparison then resulted in people thinking the $99 HomePod Mini is what Apple should have done in the first place and proof that Apple had abandoned a more expensive product. Now that the OG HomePod has returned with new internals, those same people are having a hard time admitting that they were wrong. And they're definitely wrong considering that the Amazon smart speaker equation is now known to be "lower price = better sales = lose a ton of money and gut the smart speaker group".
I see it more as a reset on Apple's part. $299 is likely what they learned from the OG HomePod to be the pricing sweet spot. But the OG HomePod wasn't producing the margin they wanted at $299. So they took what they learned from the OG HomePod design to simplify the internals while also maintaining or improving the sound quality etc.
Wow. This one is a head scratcher for me. I can't ever remember a tech product failing in the market and then being brought back shortly after in essentially identical form.
Uh - maybe because it didn't fail?
Apple never made any statements about poor sells, or how it did in the market. Apple never made any statements about why the 1st gen was discontinued.
So what do you base your "failing in the market" statement on? Hopefully not ANALyst who pull shit out of their ass...
PS - we have 8 x 1st gen HomePods.
It failed. It was too expensive (why else did Apple cut the price? Apple never cuts prices), and restricted to Apple’s own ecosystem. Those issues haven’t been resolved but at least it’s$m $50 less than the old one, though missing some hardware soo really about the same price.
Besides, just before it was discontinued people were buying them and the serial number indicated a manufacturing date of 2018. You think Apple wanted to have HomePods sat around in warehouses for 3 years unsold?
No proof in your statement that it failed. You're welcome to your opinion, but no evidence provided.
Billions of people in Apple's ecosystem. For most, that's not a con & definitely not any indication of failure.
"Those issues haven't been resolved" - what issues? All of ours work just fine, and were purchased from release date until discontinue date of the 1st gen. Most of ours are definitely from different production batches - we generally bought one at a time, and only 1 x pair purchased together.
Sure Apple cuts prices. New Mac mini M2 is $100 cheaper than previous version. The new HomePod is released at $50 cheaper than the previous version release price.
So people got old inventory? So what? Doesn't mean there was old inventory everywhere or that old inventory was the only inventory.
People always want to jump to conclusions...
I literally provided proof which you chose to ignore.
Apple doesn’t cut prices of products mid-cycle.
You’re evidently clueless as to how warehousing works. You really think Apple shoves new stock at the front of a massive shelf in their warehouse then only pick from the front so that inventory never gets turned over? Apple’s well known for its tight inventory control, stock sat in warehouses costs money. In any case why have people never received old stock with any other product?
Why did Apple cancel it if it was anything but a failure?
You’re making the most absurd statements to try and support your ridiculous conclusion despite all the evidence pointing to the contrary.
Hey, and I literally provided proof that Apple has cut prices mid-cycle, and on a product that wasn't a failure.
The biggest evidence that Apple doesn't see the full-sized HomePod as a failure is the fact that they just released a second-generation full-sized HomePod. If there's anyone who knows Apple's warehousing situation as well as the financial details on the OG HomePod, it's probably Apple, right? The people who have the best access to Apple's internal info, and who have the most experience at selling this type stuff successfully are the ones who made the judgement call to issue a second-generation full-sized HomePod. So who's more likely to be right about this? Apple, or keyboard jockeys who want to insist that the thing is a failure?
muthuk_vanalingam said: Forget tech press for a moment. What is your definition of "succeeding in the market place"? I see that @AppleZulu has given a different explanation for the OG Homepod to be discontinued. I am not sure I would agree with that explanation either. Someone who tracked Apple's revenue splitup by category very closely would be able to make a better logical explanation on whether OG HomePod succeeded in the market place or not. As far as I could recollect, the category in which HomePod was included did not see any noticeable growth in revenue in that year. But I could be wrong as well on that.
The OG HomePod was always being compared to Alexa speakers and the comparison almost always resulted in something along the lines of "lower price = better sales = better strategy". That comparison then resulted in people thinking the $99 HomePod Mini is what Apple should have done in the first place and proof that Apple had abandoned a more expensive product. Now that the OG HomePod has returned with new internals, those same people are having a hard time admitting that they were wrong. And they're definitely wrong considering that the Amazon smart speaker equation is now known to be "lower price = better sales = lose a ton of money and gut the smart speaker group".
I see it more as a reset on Apple's part. $299 is likely what they learned from the OG HomePod to be the pricing sweet spot. But the OG HomePod wasn't producing the margin they wanted at $299. So they took what they learned from the OG HomePod design to simplify the internals while also maintaining or improving the sound quality etc.
If you read through these peanut galleries for a while, you'll see that this is a repeating theme that people do not get about Apple and its competitors. Apple never chases market share through low price/high volume/low (or no) margins. Other companies do, and it's at their own peril. Sometimes it works, but other times it costs them a lot of money. Even when the HomePod mini was released, the naysayers proclaimed its doom because it was still double or triple the price of the cheap competition. The mini is priced to sell in sufficient volume to support the HomeKit ecosystem. The full sized HP is priced to support music fans. Neither is priced to be a loss-leader, because Apple doesn't do that.
Wow. This one is a head scratcher for me. I can't ever remember a tech product failing in the market and then being brought back shortly after in essentially identical form.
Uh - maybe because it didn't fail?
Apple never made any statements about poor sells, or how it did in the market. Apple never made any statements about why the 1st gen was discontinued.
So what do you base your "failing in the market" statement on? Hopefully not ANALyst who pull shit out of their ass...
PS - we have 8 x 1st gen HomePods.
It failed. It was too expensive (why else did Apple cut the price? Apple never cuts prices), and restricted to Apple’s own ecosystem. Those issues haven’t been resolved but at least it’s$m $50 less than the old one, though missing some hardware soo really about the same price.
Besides, just before it was discontinued people were buying them and the serial number indicated a manufacturing date of 2018. You think Apple wanted to have HomePods sat around in warehouses for 3 years unsold?
No proof in your statement that it failed. You're welcome to your opinion, but no evidence provided.
Billions of people in Apple's ecosystem. For most, that's not a con & definitely not any indication of failure.
"Those issues haven't been resolved" - what issues? All of ours work just fine, and were purchased from release date until discontinue date of the 1st gen. Most of ours are definitely from different production batches - we generally bought one at a time, and only 1 x pair purchased together.
Sure Apple cuts prices. New Mac mini M2 is $100 cheaper than previous version. The new HomePod is released at $50 cheaper than the previous version release price.
So people got old inventory? So what? Doesn't mean there was old inventory everywhere or that old inventory was the only inventory.
People always want to jump to conclusions...
I literally provided proof which you chose to ignore.
Apple doesn’t cut prices of products mid-cycle.
You’re evidently clueless as to how warehousing works. You really think Apple shoves new stock at the front of a massive shelf in their warehouse then only pick from the front so that inventory never gets turned over? Apple’s well known for its tight inventory control, stock sat in warehouses costs money. In any case why have people never received old stock with any other product?
Why did Apple cancel it if it was anything but a failure?
You’re making the most absurd statements to try and support your ridiculous conclusion despite all the evidence pointing to the contrary.
You provided no proof - only speculation & opinion. Look up those definitions.
Price cuts - see other posts after mine - they have cut prices mid-cycle. And now you're moving the goal posts. That's not what you originally said...
I'm not clueless - just calling out speculation & opinion when I see it.
Canceling - see above.
What statement of mine is absurd? If you're going to call it out, at least quote it.
muthuk_vanalingam said: Forget tech press for a moment. What is your definition of "succeeding in the market place"? I see that @AppleZulu has given a different explanation for the OG Homepod to be discontinued. I am not sure I would agree with that explanation either. Someone who tracked Apple's revenue splitup by category very closely would be able to make a better logical explanation on whether OG HomePod succeeded in the market place or not. As far as I could recollect, the category in which HomePod was included did not see any noticeable growth in revenue in that year. But I could be wrong as well on that.
The OG HomePod was always being compared to Alexa speakers and the comparison almost always resulted in something along the lines of "lower price = better sales = better strategy". That comparison then resulted in people thinking the $99 HomePod Mini is what Apple should have done in the first place and proof that Apple had abandoned a more expensive product. Now that the OG HomePod has returned with new internals, those same people are having a hard time admitting that they were wrong. And they're definitely wrong considering that the Amazon smart speaker equation is now known to be "lower price = better sales = lose a ton of money and gut the smart speaker group".
I see it more as a reset on Apple's part. $299 is likely what they learned from the OG HomePod to be the pricing sweet spot. But the OG HomePod wasn't producing the margin they wanted at $299. So they took what they learned from the OG HomePod design to simplify the internals while also maintaining or improving the sound quality etc.
If you read through these peanut galleries for a while, you'll see that this is a repeating theme that people do not get about Apple and its competitors. Apple never chases market share through low price/high volume/low (or no) margins. Other companies do, and it's at their own peril. Sometimes it works, but other times it costs them a lot of money. Even when the HomePod mini was released, the naysayers proclaimed its doom because it was still double or triple the price of the cheap competition. The mini is priced to sell in sufficient volume to support the HomeKit ecosystem. The full sized HP is priced to support music fans. Neither is priced to be a loss-leader, because Apple doesn't do that.
Almost all of the complaints about Apple products is usually it cost too much and Apples unwillingness to pursuit market share.
Component availability, production capacity availability, etc. COVID was happening...
Yeah the 2018 manufacture date of HomePods delivered in 2021 really supports that theory too. I know, maybe they couldn't get components so they had to use their backup supply from 2018? Looking forward to how you twist that one.
You really need to re-read what I wrote. I didn't twist anything. I make no statements of fact - only possibilities.
You're claiming fact without any proof - only speculation & opinion..
Component availability, production capacity availability, etc. COVID was happening...
Yeah the 2018 manufacture date of HomePods delivered in 2021 really supports that theory too. I know, maybe they couldn't get components so they had to use their backup supply from 2018? Looking forward to how you twist that one.
You really need to re-read what I wrote. I didn't twist anything. I make no statements of fact - only possibilities.
You're claiming fact without any proof - only speculation & opinion..
And yet I completely refuted your "possibilities". As I said, it is well known that Apple has an excellent supply chain. But since this is apparently only my "opinion" and not the truth, you must believe that they in fact have a crap supply chain and want product sat around in warehouses for years.
The original price of the HomePod $349 was built-in, a reflection of what it took to support the HomePod as a new product, and a margin to discount it when necessary. At $299, Apple has priced it, not to lose any money on it. As opposed to the others, who have priced it as a loss-leader and relying on people looking for a “free lunch” out there, as their competition races to the bottom in price… They got no where to go.
BTW, I have two 1st gen HomePods attached to my AppleTV, and for my apartment needs, they just work.
And at the new price of $299 ($300) it doesn’t sound like HomePods ‘failed’ to me.
Oh and BTW, how much was Apple charging for Siri?…$0
And if you purchased a competitor because of the voice assistant,
then what you got was sh*tty sounding speakers, in any comparison.
Component availability, production capacity availability, etc. COVID was happening...
Yeah the 2018 manufacture date of HomePods delivered in 2021 really supports that theory too. I know, maybe they couldn't get components so they had to use their backup supply from 2018? Looking forward to how you twist that one.
You really need to re-read what I wrote. I didn't twist anything. I make no statements of fact - only possibilities.
You're claiming fact without any proof - only speculation & opinion..
And yet I completely refuted your "possibilities". As I said, it is well known that Apple has an excellent supply chain. But since this is apparently only my "opinion" and not the truth, you must believe that they in fact have a crap supply chain and want product sat around in warehouses for years.
You provided no proof against my possibilities. You continue to state your opinion as fact, which it is not.
In response to your reply, I made no comments/statements about Apple's supply chain. Not even an inference.
Please read my replies again, without the attitude or emotions.
It is possible that your opinions prevents you from seeing other possibilities.
You provided no proof against my possibilities. You continue to state your opinion as fact, which it is not.
In response to your reply, I made no comments/statements about Apple's supply chain. Not even an inference.
Please read my replies again, without the attitude or emotions.
It is possible that your opinions prevents you from seeing other possibilities.
My proof was the fact that Apple has an excellent supply chain, therefore component availability was not an issue. And as I said, HomePods from 2018 were being sold in 2021 so they were in storage from way before COVID hit supply chains. It really isn't that complicated to understand.
You still apparently believe that it is only an opinion that Apple has an excellent supply chain, an "opinion" you apparently don't share?
nicholfd said: Component availability, production capacity availability, etc. COVID was happening...
Component availability and production capacity. What are those two things if not supply chain?
The original price of the HomePod $349 was built-in, a reflection of what it took to support the HomePod as a new product, and a margin to discount it when necessary. At $299, Apple has priced it, not to lose any money on it. As opposed to the others, who have priced it as a loss-leader and relying on people looking for a “free lunch” out there, as their competition races to the bottom in price… They got no where to go.
BTW, I have two 1st gen HomePods attached to my AppleTV, and for my apartment needs, they just work.
And at the new price of $299 ($300) it doesn’t sound like HomePods ‘failed’ to me.
Oh and BTW, how much was Apple charging for Siri?…$0
And if you purchased a competitor because of the voice assistant,
then what you got was sh*tty sounding speakers, in any comparison.
Apparently it is only Amazon that is making a loss on smart speakers. Sonos seem to be doing pretty well?
Why would Apple charge for Siri? I guess we have to decide between shitty sounding speaker or shitty voice assistant?
Comments
I see it more as a reset on Apple's part. $299 is likely what they learned from the OG HomePod to be the pricing sweet spot. But the OG HomePod wasn't producing the margin they wanted at $299. So they took what they learned from the OG HomePod design to simplify the internals while also maintaining or improving the sound quality etc.
The biggest evidence that Apple doesn't see the full-sized HomePod as a failure is the fact that they just released a second-generation full-sized HomePod. If there's anyone who knows Apple's warehousing situation as well as the financial details on the OG HomePod, it's probably Apple, right? The people who have the best access to Apple's internal info, and who have the most experience at selling this type stuff successfully are the ones who made the judgement call to issue a second-generation full-sized HomePod. So who's more likely to be right about this? Apple, or keyboard jockeys who want to insist that the thing is a failure?
Price cuts - see other posts after mine - they have cut prices mid-cycle. And now you're moving the goal posts. That's not what you originally said...
I'm not clueless - just calling out speculation & opinion when I see it.
Canceling - see above.
What statement of mine is absurd? If you're going to call it out, at least quote it.
You're claiming fact without any proof - only speculation & opinion..
BTW, I have two 1st gen HomePods attached to my AppleTV, and for my apartment needs, they just work.
Oh and BTW, how much was Apple charging for Siri?…$0
And if you purchased a competitor because of the voice assistant,
In response to your reply, I made no comments/statements about Apple's supply chain. Not even an inference.
Please read my replies again, without the attitude or emotions.
It is possible that your opinions prevents you from seeing other possibilities.
You still apparently believe that it is only an opinion that Apple has an excellent supply chain, an "opinion" you apparently don't share?
Component availability and production capacity. What are those two things if not supply chain?
Let me help you.
Supply Chain Management: Ensure Component Availability at ... - Altium
Ensuring availability in the supply chain | BCS
Global electronics supply chain shows promise for 2023 | ZDNET
The big challenges for supply chains in 2022 - World Economic Forum
Supply Chain Capacity Planning: How Communication Rifts Lead To ...
Is that enough or would you like more?
If my statements backed by facts are actually opinion, then what are your statements? Fact, I suppose, and not your opinion?
Why would Apple charge for Siri? I guess we have to decide between shitty sounding speaker or shitty voice assistant?