How Apple & Big Tech gutted New York's right to repair bill

Posted:
in General Discussion
New York's toothless right to repair bill not only includes concessions to the demands of Big Tech firms, but text written by them.

Apple Repair Program
Apple Repair Program


In December 2022, New York became the first US state to pass a Right to Repair bill, but one which AppleInsider described as "functionally toothless." Now draft documents and emails between lobbyists, government and repair advocacy groups show much the Digital Fair Repair Act was directly changed by Big Tech.

According to Grist, a nonprofit media organization, many of those changes are identical to those proposed by TechNet. This trade organization represents Apple, Google, Samsung, HP and more.

"We had every environmental group walking supporting this bill," Patricia Fahy, bill sponsor, told Grist as she confirmed the authenticity of the documents. "What hurt this bill is Big Tech was opposed to it."

New: Gov. Hochul has signed the "right to repair" law -- with the Legislature agreeing to a number of changes, as outlined in her approval message. pic.twitter.com/GUBExlj5BD

-- Jon Campbell (@JonCampbellNY)


In June 2021, a version of the act was passed by the New York State Senate with a smaller number of certain changes. Specifically, the state agreed to allow exclusions for various items such as police radios and farm equipment.

"We made a lot of changes to get it over the finish line in the first day or two of June," said Fahy. She says she was willing to agree to those because it meant the bill would focus on small electronics, and so give consumers "the biggest bang for their buck."

Once it was passed, however, Senator Neil Breslin (Democrat) says the tech industry was surprised. "There's a number of people who were advocating on the parts of the [manufacturers] who really, in private chats, were not expecting it would be passed," he said.

From that point, TechNet and others including lobbyists representing Apple, Google, and Microsoft, held frequent meetings with Governor Kathy Hochul. Those specifically representing Apple, IBM, and TechNet specifically asked the governor to veto the bill entirely.

Microsoft reportedly softened its resistance to the bill, though, and while it requested edits, did not ask for a veto. "[Microsoft] constantly tried to reach out [to us]," said Fahy.

Failing to get a veto, TechNet and others asked for the law to apply only to future products, not ones already being manufactured. It asked, too, that devices sold on government contracts, or in business-to-business deals, be excluded.

It also asked for printed circuit boards be excluded. TechNet pressed for the bill to allow manufacturers to sell multiple components pre-assembled as one unit, where selling an individual part could be a "safety risk."

A draft following TechNet's requests was shared with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) by advocacy group Repair.org. Subsequent documents seen by Grist show that the FTC was highly critical and noted that the new bill "could easily be abused by a manufacturer."

"These particular TechNet edits all have a common theme," FTC chief counsel Dan Salsburg wrote in an email to Fahy's office, "ensuring that manufacturers retain control over the market for the repair of their products."

Reportedly, however, TechNet got everything it asked for, and the final bill even contains text as written by the group.

Security concerns

TechNet has responded to Grist, saying that the original version of the bill as published in June 2021, "presented unacceptable risks to consumer data privacy and safety." TechNet executive director for the Northeast, Chris Gilrein also said that his organization "addressed the most egregious security issues."

Despite the watering down of the bill, Repair.org executive director Gay Gordon-Byrne said getting any right to repair bill passed is "huge."

"[It] could have been huger," he added.

Fahy points out that the New York Department of State still has to craft regulations what will dictate how this law is passed, and she hopes it will clarify some of these weakened aspects. She also says that even as it is now, the act will help New York consumers save money, and keep old devices from going in to landfills.

Plus Fahy believes that the passage of this bill will help other states to get their own versions passed in to law -- and that this could ultimately lead to national agreement between manufacturers and repair firms.

Apple, IBM, and others declined to comment.

There are already steps underway to create such a national agreement. In 2021, President Biden asked the FTC to draft new right to repair regulations.


Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 17
    "Corporations are people" is probably one of the most harmful decisions SCOTUS has ever made.
    OferDoctorQ
  • Reply 2 of 17
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,941member
    Something is wrong when the potentially affected parties can use their own leverage to sway decisions to this degree. 
    muthuk_vanalingamOferFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 3 of 17
    Personally I’ve always thought that forcing the ‘right to repair’ is stupid and wrong. Yes I think companies should provide users with a means to repair their own devices because that’s a nice thing to do. But it’s false to say that when someone buys a company’s product that means they are entitled to buy further parts for repair directly and according to their desires.

    If you want a company to give you parts beyond what you originally bought, buy from a company who will do that. If there aren’t any, then either don’t buy anything or make your own.
    edited February 2023 therbenrob53williamlondonFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 4 of 17
    badmonkbadmonk Posts: 1,326member
    I find it curious that the farm equipment companies got a pass here as there is a greater need for farmers to get their repairs done in an affordable fashion than millennials and their iPhones.  They are running low margin high risk businesses and the capital outlay of their equipment is astronomical.

    So this speaks even more to the corruption of the process than BigTechs involvement.

    Also I suspect that durability and repairability are inversely related.  Of course screens and batteries may be the exception. If Apple products are unabused they have been the most reliable products I have ever owned and usually I have passed them down to others giving them extended lives before ending up in a landfill.

    It’s the cheap electronics with short half lives that are creating the bulk of unnecessary waste.

    And there are real privacy concerns in opening up anyone to conduct repairs in order to save a few dollars.  Our devices have become our personal dairies.

    I wonder what Hunter Biden thinks about right to repair.
    OferFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 5 of 17
    "Corporations are people" is probably one of the most harmful decisions SCOTUS has ever made.
    Except that corporations are 100% run by people, and decisions are made by people. They aren’t run by people who are capable of temporarily suspending their personhood to assume a personless role as company worker.
    therbenwilliamlondon
  • Reply 6 of 17
    "Corporations are people" is probably one of the most harmful decisions SCOTUS has ever made.
    Actually that is the exact reason why corporations were created in the first place. To create a fictional person. The origin of the word comes from the Latin “to make into a body”. Otherwise every company would exist as partnerships which legally dissolve at the death of one of the partner owners and entangle all their legal affairs, including personal, with each other.
    williamlondonFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 7 of 17
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,891moderator
    A rational society would first seek to enforce recycling across all of the products it consumes. Then the right to repair issue becomes far less urgent.  

    And a rational society would also perform some deep studies to determine whether what @BadMonk wrote is true about repairability and durability being inversely related (I suspect he's correct).  If that's the case then it raises issues for how far right to repair should go.  
    edited February 2023 FileMakerFeller
  • Reply 8 of 17
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,210member
    The right to repair movement will only create a market for stolen Apple parts. Right now there is no benefit to stealing an Apple device for parts, the device basically ends up being a brick. I like it like that.
    edited February 2023 radarthekat
  • Reply 9 of 17
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,281member
    badmonk said:
    I find it curious that the farm equipment companies got a pass here as there is a greater need for farmers to get their repairs done in an affordable fashion than millennials and their iPhones.  They are running low margin high risk businesses and the capital outlay of their equipment is astronomical.

    So this speaks even more to the corruption of the process than BigTechs involvement.

    Also I suspect that durability and repairability are inversely related.  Of course screens and batteries may be the exception. If Apple products are unabused they have been the most reliable products I have ever owned and usually I have passed them down to others giving them extended lives before ending up in a landfill.

    It’s the cheap electronics with short half lives that are creating the bulk of unnecessary waste.

    And there are real privacy concerns in opening up anyone to conduct repairs in order to save a few dollars.  Our devices have become our personal dairies.

    I wonder what Hunter Biden thinks about right to repair.
    It depends on which farmers you’re talking about. There’s a ton of money subsidizing farmers while most people get nothing. I’m against right to repair because I already have a right to repair the products I buy. RTR only affects repair companies. If I need to find repair parts I usually can. RTR advocates want the original company to provide parts and tools, which Apple has started to do, to private repair companies and to be honest, I really don’t care to support them. I’ll support Apple authorized service centers but not the repair stands at the malls. 
    williamlondonFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 10 of 17
    MadbumMadbum Posts: 536member
    It was a “right to steal bill”


  • Reply 11 of 17
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,941member
    rob53 said:
    badmonk said:
    I find it curious that the farm equipment companies got a pass here as there is a greater need for farmers to get their repairs done in an affordable fashion than millennials and their iPhones.  They are running low margin high risk businesses and the capital outlay of their equipment is astronomical.

    So this speaks even more to the corruption of the process than BigTechs involvement.

    Also I suspect that durability and repairability are inversely related.  Of course screens and batteries may be the exception. If Apple products are unabused they have been the most reliable products I have ever owned and usually I have passed them down to others giving them extended lives before ending up in a landfill.

    It’s the cheap electronics with short half lives that are creating the bulk of unnecessary waste.

    And there are real privacy concerns in opening up anyone to conduct repairs in order to save a few dollars.  Our devices have become our personal dairies.

    I wonder what Hunter Biden thinks about right to repair.
    It depends on which farmers you’re talking about. There’s a ton of money subsidizing farmers while most people get nothing. I’m against right to repair because I already have a right to repair the products I buy. RTR only affects repair companies. If I need to find repair parts I usually can. RTR advocates want the original company to provide parts and tools, which Apple has started to do, to private repair companies and to be honest, I really don’t care to support them. I’ll support Apple authorized service centers but not the repair stands at the malls. 
    That is a choice you will never lose but when you take your vintage Mac in for repair the only thing you'll get from Apple is that it's time to buy a new Mac. 

    Third party repair services can competively attempt to fix an Apple certified unrepairable product, if they can source the parts. 

    Of course, Apple (and everyone else) should be designing for repair too. 


    muthuk_vanalingamFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 12 of 17
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,210member
    avon b7 said:
    rob53 said:
    badmonk said:
    I find it curious that the farm equipment companies got a pass here as there is a greater need for farmers to get their repairs done in an affordable fashion than millennials and their iPhones.  They are running low margin high risk businesses and the capital outlay of their equipment is astronomical.

    So this speaks even more to the corruption of the process than BigTechs involvement.

    Also I suspect that durability and repairability are inversely related.  Of course screens and batteries may be the exception. If Apple products are unabused they have been the most reliable products I have ever owned and usually I have passed them down to others giving them extended lives before ending up in a landfill.

    It’s the cheap electronics with short half lives that are creating the bulk of unnecessary waste.

    And there are real privacy concerns in opening up anyone to conduct repairs in order to save a few dollars.  Our devices have become our personal dairies.

    I wonder what Hunter Biden thinks about right to repair.
    It depends on which farmers you’re talking about. There’s a ton of money subsidizing farmers while most people get nothing. I’m against right to repair because I already have a right to repair the products I buy. RTR only affects repair companies. If I need to find repair parts I usually can. RTR advocates want the original company to provide parts and tools, which Apple has started to do, to private repair companies and to be honest, I really don’t care to support them. I’ll support Apple authorized service centers but not the repair stands at the malls. 
    That is a choice you will never lose but when you take your vintage Mac in for repair the only thing you'll get from Apple is that it's time to buy a new Mac. 

    Third party repair services can competively attempt to fix an Apple certified unrepairable product, if they can source the parts. 

    Of course, Apple (and everyone else) should be designing for repair too. 


    The parts can be sourced if you put the work in to do so, in short isn’t Apple’s job to give you the parts at a discount or make it easy.
    Right to repair will only create a market for stolen parts or counterfeit parts in the end.
  • Reply 13 of 17
    avon b7 said:

    Of course, Apple (and everyone else) should be designing for repair too. 

    Designing for repair has its own associated costs (design and final product). I would imagine that a cell phone designed to be repairable by the end user would be less compact and durable. Glueing everything together tight has benefits, both in manufacturing costs and in durability.

    FileMakerFeller
  • Reply 14 of 17
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,941member
    danox said:
    avon b7 said:
    rob53 said:
    badmonk said:
    I find it curious that the farm equipment companies got a pass here as there is a greater need for farmers to get their repairs done in an affordable fashion than millennials and their iPhones.  They are running low margin high risk businesses and the capital outlay of their equipment is astronomical.

    So this speaks even more to the corruption of the process than BigTechs involvement.

    Also I suspect that durability and repairability are inversely related.  Of course screens and batteries may be the exception. If Apple products are unabused they have been the most reliable products I have ever owned and usually I have passed them down to others giving them extended lives before ending up in a landfill.

    It’s the cheap electronics with short half lives that are creating the bulk of unnecessary waste.

    And there are real privacy concerns in opening up anyone to conduct repairs in order to save a few dollars.  Our devices have become our personal dairies.

    I wonder what Hunter Biden thinks about right to repair.
    It depends on which farmers you’re talking about. There’s a ton of money subsidizing farmers while most people get nothing. I’m against right to repair because I already have a right to repair the products I buy. RTR only affects repair companies. If I need to find repair parts I usually can. RTR advocates want the original company to provide parts and tools, which Apple has started to do, to private repair companies and to be honest, I really don’t care to support them. I’ll support Apple authorized service centers but not the repair stands at the malls. 
    That is a choice you will never lose but when you take your vintage Mac in for repair the only thing you'll get from Apple is that it's time to buy a new Mac. 

    Third party repair services can competively attempt to fix an Apple certified unrepairable product, if they can source the parts. 

    Of course, Apple (and everyone else) should be designing for repair too. 


    The parts can be sourced if you put the work in to do so, in short isn’t Apple’s job to give you the parts at a discount or make it easy.
    Right to repair will only create a market for stolen parts or counterfeit parts in the end.
    The market for stolen parts already exists. 

    Right to repair can solve all kinds of parts problems and extend the sales network for them that already exists. 

    It would allow Apple to offload unused or refurbished parts and help with traceability. 

    While Apple does not have to provide parts at a discount, it definitely should make access to them easier. Along with designing for repair. 

    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 15 of 17
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,891moderator
    avon b7 said:
    rob53 said:
    badmonk said:
    I find it curious that the farm equipment companies got a pass here as there is a greater need for farmers to get their repairs done in an affordable fashion than millennials and their iPhones.  They are running low margin high risk businesses and the capital outlay of their equipment is astronomical.

    So this speaks even more to the corruption of the process than BigTechs involvement.

    Also I suspect that durability and repairability are inversely related.  Of course screens and batteries may be the exception. If Apple products are unabused they have been the most reliable products I have ever owned and usually I have passed them down to others giving them extended lives before ending up in a landfill.

    It’s the cheap electronics with short half lives that are creating the bulk of unnecessary waste.

    And there are real privacy concerns in opening up anyone to conduct repairs in order to save a few dollars.  Our devices have become our personal dairies.

    I wonder what Hunter Biden thinks about right to repair.
    It depends on which farmers you’re talking about. There’s a ton of money subsidizing farmers while most people get nothing. I’m against right to repair because I already have a right to repair the products I buy. RTR only affects repair companies. If I need to find repair parts I usually can. RTR advocates want the original company to provide parts and tools, which Apple has started to do, to private repair companies and to be honest, I really don’t care to support them. I’ll support Apple authorized service centers but not the repair stands at the malls. 
    That is a choice you will never lose but when you take your vintage Mac in for repair the only thing you'll get from Apple is that it's time to buy a new Mac. 

    Third party repair services can competively attempt to fix an Apple certified unrepairable product, if they can source the parts. 

    Of course, Apple (and everyone else) should be designing for repair too. 


    I’d be curious to see the results of a study to see how often Apple recommends replacement rather than repair of Apple products that the company is still selling as refurbished.  

    The logical policy for Apple would be to recommend replacement only for products Apple no longer offers for sale in their refurbished products catalog or if the repaired product simply would no longer meet a customer’s needs.  These are the two aspects any good Apple technician should address.  In the latter aspect, if the customer should replace the product regardless of whether it can be economically repaired, because his need has evolved beyond what the repaired product is suitable to support, then there becomes the question of whether to trade in to Apple or to repair and sell elsewhere.  This is a matter for the customer to determine based upon convenience and retained value.  

    On the flip side, Apple should offer replacement and recycling for anything else unless the repair is minimal and the repaired product would still well meet the customer’s needs.  
  • Reply 16 of 17
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,941member
    avon b7 said:
    rob53 said:
    badmonk said:
    I find it curious that the farm equipment companies got a pass here as there is a greater need for farmers to get their repairs done in an affordable fashion than millennials and their iPhones.  They are running low margin high risk businesses and the capital outlay of their equipment is astronomical.

    So this speaks even more to the corruption of the process than BigTechs involvement.

    Also I suspect that durability and repairability are inversely related.  Of course screens and batteries may be the exception. If Apple products are unabused they have been the most reliable products I have ever owned and usually I have passed them down to others giving them extended lives before ending up in a landfill.

    It’s the cheap electronics with short half lives that are creating the bulk of unnecessary waste.

    And there are real privacy concerns in opening up anyone to conduct repairs in order to save a few dollars.  Our devices have become our personal dairies.

    I wonder what Hunter Biden thinks about right to repair.
    It depends on which farmers you’re talking about. There’s a ton of money subsidizing farmers while most people get nothing. I’m against right to repair because I already have a right to repair the products I buy. RTR only affects repair companies. If I need to find repair parts I usually can. RTR advocates want the original company to provide parts and tools, which Apple has started to do, to private repair companies and to be honest, I really don’t care to support them. I’ll support Apple authorized service centers but not the repair stands at the malls. 
    That is a choice you will never lose but when you take your vintage Mac in for repair the only thing you'll get from Apple is that it's time to buy a new Mac. 

    Third party repair services can competively attempt to fix an Apple certified unrepairable product, if they can source the parts. 

    Of course, Apple (and everyone else) should be designing for repair too. 


    I’d be curious to see the results of a study to see how often Apple recommends replacement rather than repair of Apple products that the company is still selling as refurbished.  

    The logical policy for Apple would be to recommend replacement only for products Apple no longer offers for sale in their refurbished products catalog or if the repaired product simply would no longer meet a customer’s needs.  These are the two aspects any good Apple technician should address.  In the latter aspect, if the customer should replace the product regardless of whether it can be economically repaired, because his need has evolved beyond what the repaired product is suitable to support, then there becomes the question of whether to trade in to Apple or to repair and sell elsewhere.  This is a matter for the customer to determine based upon convenience and retained value.  

    On the flip side, Apple should offer replacement and recycling for anything else unless the repair is minimal and the repaired product would still well meet the customer’s needs.  
    I was referring to older, non-supported devices but it would be nice to hear if anyone knows what Apple actually does with the spares it has warehoused that relate to vintage or obsolete hardware that is not supported by Apple. 

    I wonder if it gets sold off to certified third party interests or destroyed or recycled in some way. 

    With Apple Stores in general I think it very much depends on where you live as to what degree of service flexibility you get. 

    Here, in Spain, I've been refused repair for damage caused by a swollen battery on a vintage MacBook Pro which itself had been subject to a (then expired) repair extension programme on the battery which Apple never notified me of. That one had flown under my radar but, seeing as I bought it directly from Apple and they sent me the invoice by email and had the Apple ID associated with it, it would have been great if Apple had simply notified me about it at the time.

    I've also had a vintage 27inch i7 iMac refused repair even though new Apple parts were available from specialists in other regions but not from Apple itself. In that case it was the graphics card. Cost made it prohibitive for me to import as an individual.

    A similar thing happened with an eMac (video again). 

    In all cases, I was given a shrug of the shoulders and the 'well, it's old' line before being asked if I was interested in a new machine. 

    The only thing I've ever got lucky with was an iPod Nano recall (I saw that by pure chance) and everything went great in that case (and entirely by post). At the time Apple said it would be putting the same discontinued model back into production to replace the faulty units. That never happened and I got a brand new current model (at the time).


    muthuk_vanalingam
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