Work ethics is closely tied to living standard. The harder you work the better you got paid in return. This is especially true in USA. Apple execs work much harder than lower level employees. I have seen many news that high level ceos quit because they want to spend more time with family. Steve Jobs also lament not spending more time outside of work.
I agree 100%. Many employees are paid way more than most of them *earn* (or are worth to the company). Overtime, holiday pay, benefits.... on top of their hourly wage or salary. Yet they bitch and complain and unionize against their employer just to get more, more, more, without giving more. It's a sad state of affairs.
(this doesn't apply to everyone, but a very loud portion of workers)
Those of us that are self-employed know what it's truly like to work hard without any return on that work until the job is done. We don't get to sit around getting paid by the hour whether we produce results or not. I suppose commission workers experience this to a degree, which explains why car salespeople can be so pushy.
There is a fundamental flaw in most of the arguments. Many of the arguments made in the comments are as flawed as TSMC feeling that "Americans" are lazier than workers is in Taiwan. To see past the flawed arguments we must as this question: Who are "Americans"? ANSWER: 332 million people who aren't all the same!
Even if one can effectively argue that the 24 million people of Taiwan are mostly the same (i.e., hard working and loving it), the population of the USA is not only more diverse but also almost 14 times larger in number. This ensures that if human resources makes the right hiring picks, skilled and hard working people in American can and shall be found, even if one can argue that the CULTURE of work in America is inferior to that of Taiwan or China.
Another consideration, for people who give an eye to it, is that Asian American population is about 22 million, which is quite nearly the population of Taiwan! So even if TSMC could effectively argue that Americans of other ethnic groups refuse to work as hard as Taiwanese employees, that ignores the significant number of Asian Americans in the USA. Certainly, some would be Americanized in terms of culture and work ethic, but not all.
Regardless of the number of Asian Americans, the sheer number of workers available in the USA combined with effective hiring practices, and teaching American workers about what TSMC expects of them, can result in a workforce just as effect as is in Taiwan.
Also remember, we are talking about TECH workers here, not folks working part time at McDonald's. So we need to keep the type of workers in perspective.
Perhaps the biggest obstacle would be US law. Bad hiring decisions will be made, but the question is, can TSMC fire those people in the USA? Can TSMC ask people to actually work hard, or does US law currently forbid that or otherwise make it impossible? If US law is the enemy here, it needs to be cited as the main problem, not American workers in general.
Just as soon as I finished reading the linked NY Times story I knew anti-American worker rants would pile up. First, the article cites comments from three anonymous workers, with no indication that they are managers. The one person named is a former TSMC worker. Second, every nation is different and TSMC shouldn't expect the same conditions and working environment on American soil as they do in Taiwan. The founder knows this from experience. What isn't factored into the discussion is the governmental assistance in the tech industry in Taiwan and China that helped move jobs out of America for many, many years. The CHIPS Act and other legislation & incentives is just a small start to getting America back on sound footing WRT tech production.
There is a fundamental flaw in most of the arguments. Many of the arguments made in the comments are as flawed as TSMC feeling that "Americans" are lazier than workers is in Taiwan. To see past the flawed arguments we must as this question: Who are "Americans"? ANSWER: 332 million people who aren't all the same!
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Thank you for pointing out how offensive the statements from the TSMC employees truly are. People should not be pre-judged based on stereotypes, preconceived notions, limited perspective, or lumping an entire population into one homogeneous blob that totally ignores individual diversity.
As you point out, labeling an entire country of over 300 million as exhibiting a common behavioral or ethical trait, especially a highly derogatory one, is also beyond absurd if for no other reason than basic math.
I see no reason why we should allow these TSMC employees to promote their divisive prejudices unchallenged. They are publicly presenting their employer and its commitment to being an equal partner in a hugely important business venture between the US and Taiwan in a very negative and embarrassing manner.
To be fair to TSMC, the misguided statements from the individual employees or ex-employees obviously do not reflect the values of TSMC as a company. I’d expect the company will handle it appropriately.
Funny how Sony CEO back in the 80's or 90's said the same thing when they were at their financial peak. Typical ego attitude and now they are beaten by Apple and Samsung and learned to shut up. TSMC thinks they are all up there now. History is repeating itself. I think American people know how to enjoy their lives. In Japan, you are lucky if you can take a vacation.
And those of us in the west think they work TOO hard. Life is about balance, and if TSMC can’t understand that, then they have little chance of success here. Remember the Foxconn suicides? Yeah, won’t don’t put up with a workplace like that. We walk.
They are right. Americans aren't hard working people. They're lazy. They aren't competitive.
China brings results, America consumes them.
As for Foxconn suicide, more people committed suicides when they are not employed. Statistics matter and to blame suicide on Foxconn is hilarious and so detached from the whole context of suicide prevention. Asians value work more and if they don't work, they feel worthless and are likely to commit suicide. The suicide rate at Foxconn is significantly lower than the rate outside of Foxconn but for some reason, people are convinced people are killing themselves because of hardships at Foxconn. People at Foxconn are also paid more than the average outside of Foxconn and Foxconn is one of the most sought companies for many Asians to work for.
Americans have NO business to impose their values on the Asians who see differently. Asians take pride in hard work and education more than Americans do. They love electronics and technology. They would be happy working 7 days a week.
What poppycock. America lead the way on so many major industries and sectors and still does. America leads tech, China leads knocking it off.
There’s a reason IT workers want US visas - nobody wants to go work in China.
I agree 100%. Many employees are paid way more than most of them *earn* (or are worth to the company). Overtime, holiday pay, benefits.... on top of their hourly wage or salary. Yet they bitch and complain and unionize against their employer just to get more, more, more, without giving more. It's a sad state of affairs.
(this doesn't apply to everyone, but a very loud portion of workers)
Those of us that are self-employed know what it's truly like to work hard without any return on that work until the job is done. We don't get to sit around getting paid by the hour whether we produce results or not. I suppose commission workers experience this to a degree, which explains why car salespeople can be so pushy.
Nonsense. Wage stagnation has proven as fact (not opinion) that middle class incomes dropped, while wealth was consolidated at the top. Corresponds with weakened unions. When unions are strong, collective bargaining allows more fair splits. This is why pro sports leagues have unions too!
The article quoted 3 engineers who didn't fancy picking the slack of American engineers who are unlikely to work the long hours that has made tsmc the world leader in the most advanced technology in the world. They are probably right, but it don't mean Americans are lazy though. They value other things in life, nothing wrong with that. But it does mean tsmc America is unlikely to have the same throughput and cost of manufacture of the same product to the same quality as the Taiwanese operation. Chip costs will go up, either tsmc sells all chips at same price wherever produced or they sell US made chips at higher price to the US customers who insist on sourcing from the US. Can't see the latter as that will seriously embarrass the Americans and become political, so tsmc will take the hit but become less competitive because of American operations, and will in time close it down as non performing, after having taken CHIPS money. Can't beat the profit effort equation at the end of the day. It's clear that the reason tsmc are leaders is because they have such dedicated engineers so invested in their company's success.
What does TSMC do. They manufacture chips designed by western firms using processes invented, equipment engineered and manufactured by western firms (ASML out of Netherlands)
What does TSMC do. They manufacture chips designed by western firms using processes invented, equipment engineered and manufactured by western firms (ASML out of Netherlands)
I can't see anything relevant there.
They do what they do well enough to be world leaders in the areas that matter and not all of it comes from western firms.
TSMC and ASML work together to push the latest nodes into profitable products. Neither company could do it alone and both of them rely on western and non-western firms for their own supply chains.
It's worth noting too that the latest most advanced nodes represent less than 2% of global semi conductor output.
We are also very likely to see 'chip-stacked' alternatives come to market at competitive prices which make use of older more mature process nodes and give more bang for buck.
US sourced processors will undoubtedly be more expensive than non-US sourced equivalents unless further subsidies are made available.
The Obama's production company Higher Ground supported the movie American Factory which won the documentary Academy Award in 2020.
“American Factory” tells the story of what happens when a Chinese company opens an automotive glass plant at a former General Motors plant in Ohio and faces intense cultural differences and community skepticism.
I expect this documentary would supply a much needed context to the present issue. Highly recommended.
The Obama's production company Higher Ground supported the movie American Factory which won the documentary Academy Award in 2020.
“American Factory” tells the story of what happens when a Chinese company opens an automotive glass plant at a former General Motors plant in Ohio and faces intense cultural differences and community skepticism.
I expect this documentary would supply a much needed context to the present issue. Highly recommended.
Totally forgot about that documentary. I watched it long ago. Totally agree. A perfect example how the two cultures worked things out.
In my experience, longer hours or extra days = slower work. If you know you have more time, you take more time. You're not going to work at the same pace knowing it's a 12 hour day versus an 8 hour day or a 6 day week instead of a 5 day week.
You're confirming TSMC's statements :-)
Companies expecting you to work long hours and in weekends are not managed well and prefer squeezing employees for financial gains. This type of companies should be $hitcanned.
Comments
(this doesn't apply to everyone, but a very loud portion of workers)
Those of us that are self-employed know what it's truly like to work hard without any return on that work until the job is done. We don't get to sit around getting paid by the hour whether we produce results or not. I suppose commission workers experience this to a degree, which explains why car salespeople can be so pushy.
Even if one can effectively argue that the 24 million people of Taiwan are mostly the same (i.e., hard working and loving it), the population of the USA is not only more diverse but also almost 14 times larger in number. This ensures that if human resources makes the right hiring picks, skilled and hard working people in American can and shall be found, even if one can argue that the CULTURE of work in America is inferior to that of Taiwan or China.
Another consideration, for people who give an eye to it, is that Asian American population is about 22 million, which is quite nearly the population of Taiwan! So even if TSMC could effectively argue that Americans of other ethnic groups refuse to work as hard as Taiwanese employees, that ignores the significant number of Asian Americans in the USA. Certainly, some would be Americanized in terms of culture and work ethic, but not all.
Regardless of the number of Asian Americans, the sheer number of workers available in the USA combined with effective hiring practices, and teaching American workers about what TSMC expects of them, can result in a workforce just as effect as is in Taiwan.
Also remember, we are talking about TECH workers here, not folks working part time at McDonald's. So we need to keep the type of workers in perspective.
Perhaps the biggest obstacle would be US law. Bad hiring decisions will be made, but the question is, can TSMC fire those people in the USA? Can TSMC ask people to actually work hard, or does US law currently forbid that or otherwise make it impossible? If US law is the enemy here, it needs to be cited as the main problem, not American workers in general.
There’s a reason IT workers want US visas - nobody wants to go work in China.
They are probably right, but it don't mean Americans are lazy though. They value other things in life, nothing wrong with that.
But it does mean tsmc America is unlikely to have the same throughput and cost of manufacture of the same product to the same quality as the Taiwanese operation. Chip costs will go up, either tsmc sells all chips at same price wherever produced or they sell US made chips at higher price to the US customers who insist on sourcing from the US. Can't see the latter as that will seriously embarrass the Americans and become political, so tsmc will take the hit but become less competitive because of American operations, and will in time close it down as non performing, after having taken CHIPS money.
Can't beat the profit effort equation at the end of the day. It's clear that the reason tsmc are leaders is because they have such dedicated engineers so invested in their company's success.
They do what they do well enough to be world leaders in the areas that matter and not all of it comes from western firms.
TSMC and ASML work together to push the latest nodes into profitable products. Neither company could do it alone and both of them rely on western and non-western firms for their own supply chains.
It's worth noting too that the latest most advanced nodes represent less than 2% of global semi conductor output.
We are also very likely to see 'chip-stacked' alternatives come to market at competitive prices which make use of older more mature process nodes and give more bang for buck.
US sourced processors will undoubtedly be more expensive than non-US sourced equivalents unless further subsidies are made available.
“American Factory” tells the story of what happens when a Chinese company opens an automotive glass plant at a former General Motors plant in Ohio and faces intense cultural differences and community skepticism.
I expect this documentary would supply a much needed context to the present issue. Highly recommended.