<strong>The last upgrade Apple offered was back in 1994...
Apple doesn't want us to upgrade at little cost and thus lenghten the life of our macs, it wants us to buy a new machine everytime they release one.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is not about that they want you to buy a new one. They _do_ want you to buy a new one, but they also want you to sell/donate your old one. Installed user base. Very important. Gives the platform more momentum.
<strong>I'm betting that picture and that PDF were unrelated. I don't have it anymore - were other specs on it correct? For example, 166Mhz bus with PC2700 RAM?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I still have the PDF and the pix. Here are the specs on the PDF:
Does anyone have *any* evidence that could refute even one aspect of the leaked PDF/photos?
As far as I can see *everything* described in those leaked unofficial documents is either correct or as yet unknown. The case design and layout (inside and out) are *spot-on*, for example.
What we don't know:
? 7lb heatsink ? has anyone weighted one yet? The system weight has increased from 30lb to 42lb, a big jump which to my mind suggests it is still *possible*.
? Motherboard ? is the new mobo the same as the leaked one? At this stage it seems that it could be. I have yet to see a photo of the new mobo to compare for certainty.
? Processor/daughterboard ? well this one is intriguing. The new PMs are all duals but the photo showed only one processor. Perhaps the leaked photo was the first ever photo of a new chip that is coming soon!!! (Then again perhaps it was just an old single G4 card for testing).
? 4GB RAM ? well maybe Apple has yet to 'certify' 1GB DIMMs. We don't *know* if 4GB is impossible with the new PowerMacs.
Whilst trying not to be a rampant optimist I believe that the odds that these documents reveal that the new PowerMacs are a 'G5 Ready' design have increased *markedly* compared to what we thought a few days ago. Provided the mobo and the new system controller chip can handle DDR FSB then (as others have said) it might not be all that long until a new processor card is swapped in (ps: I doubt that Apple will sell it separately). For now I feel that this is the best available evidence that "the big catch-up" is not far away!!!
If the documents do have errors in them then I feel that it might be ages until we see the next-gen processor especially if, to support it, Apple would need to design and release yet another whole new case, mobo and controller chip (the last two being things that Apple does not change all that often).
If there is any truth to the G5-ready comment is refers only to the case -- the current motherboard will not be upgradeable. The chipset communicates with the processor(s) using an MPX bus and either a hypothetical Moto G5 nor the anticipated IBM PowerPC will use the MPX bus. The MPX in the new machines is as far as Motorola is going to push that technology, it will be replaced by RapidIO in Motorola chips. IBM may use RapidIO or another technology which is capable of 6.4 GB/sec -- MPX will never get there and is Moto-specific.
wel dont forget that apple makes high end computers, what you get works if you just go to a market for pc and buy some ram, you have a great risk that it doest work or completly ruins youre computer, so be happy that there is one company in that word that thinks abaut you pleasure and not its own pleasure, you pay a bit more you get a lot more,.
Apple certainly isn't known for providing upgrade options. If the CPU daughter card can be upgraded, however, perhaps it could be a good third-party upgrade opportunity.
If Apple were to have suddenly changed policies and wanted to sell CPU upgrades themselves, it would do them little good to keep it a secret. Far better to loudly advertise "New Power Macs with upgradable CPUs!!!" and pull in extra sales from people who might be holding off waiting for The Next Big Thing.
I still wonder if the CPUs can be upgraded, but if they can be, I'd consider it a side-effect of what is easier and cheaper for Apple to do from a manufacturing and development standpoint. Apple might have designed the current motherboard with faster CPUs in mind, but also ready to deal with slow CPUs as well, if that's all the could get out of Motorola in time.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just not gonna happen. Apple can't market a machine as "upgradable". They did do this at one time (and sold the upgrades), but when they stopped producing upgrade cards, they got hit with a class-action suit. Don't remember what came of that, but I really doubt they would want to be put in that position again (or that Apple legal would allow it).
This is the same reason we'll never see a "lifetime support" option again either.
I suppose it's possible they could sell upgrade cards without claiming upgradability (no legal implications then), but I just can't see this happening somehow.....no market advantage then.
<strong>If there is any truth to the G5-ready comment is refers only to the case -- the current motherboard will not be upgradeable. The chipset communicates with the processor(s) using an MPX bus and either a hypothetical Moto G5 nor the anticipated IBM PowerPC will use the MPX bus. The MPX in the new machines is as far as Motorola is going to push that technology, it will be replaced by RapidIO in Motorola chips. IBM may use RapidIO or another technology which is capable of 6.4 GB/sec -- MPX will never get there and is Moto-specific.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Isn't it possible, however, even if the current G4 only supports an MPX bus, that the connection between the CPU card and the motherboard is designed to handle a faster bus?
If their's a new processor on the way, Apple would have to optimize their OS X.
My guess is that Moto or IBM have given their future processor to Apple to make a new Mobo and Apple has already optimized their OS=10.2. Remember that IBM and Moto will announce new processor the 15th of October. IBM will probablyannounce the next gen of PPC's. I also thing 1 GB DIMM's are on the way
<strong>If there is any truth to the G5-ready comment is refers only to the case -- the current motherboard will not be upgradeable. The chipset communicates with the processor(s) using an MPX bus and either a hypothetical Moto G5 nor the anticipated IBM PowerPC will use the MPX bus. .</strong><hr></blockquote>
Perhaps the new chipset is able to use other protocols than simply the MPX bus. after all the first G4 use both the MPX bus and the 60x bus. Who knows ?
Apple will not reveal this info anyway before we see a new chip.
Is the the Logic Board we will be seeing for the next 18 months, or is it the 'stop-gap' board that will be replaced a short 6 months down the road?
Let us hope that the entire Du-Op setup is a 'stop measure' They are fine machines. Faster than most people will ever need. That does not change the fact that it has no room to grow
That is a scary thing. This tech on iMacs in 12 months is one thing. On PowerMacs @ $3k+ it is just wrong.
<strong>The last upgrade Apple offered was back in 1994...
Apple doesn't want us to upgrade at little cost and thus lenghten the life of our macs, it wants us to buy a new machine everytime they release one.
Steve is especially greedy there.
Just look at the current RAM prices: 730.- for 512MB DDR333, while the same thing costs 230.- in a PC store (CHF) That's what I call an elephantite margin.
Also the heatsink the new machine has, while big, is nowhere near 7lbs in weight, so I guess, while the rest was true, those parts about heatsinks and G5 ready were pulled out of someones behind.
Of course I like to be positively surprised, for a change.
I just looked at the <a href="http://www.geocities.com/willywalloo/"; target="_blank">picture</a> again and it looks like someone just threw that in, specifically looking that the different size of font as well as different face: one that I've never seen Apple use before.
>>theres som corn whiskey 2 cents jibba jabba.
<strong>? 7lb heatsink ? has anyone weighted one yet? The system weight has increased from 30lb to 42lb, a big jump which to my mind suggests it is still *possible*.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Trust me the heatsink in those machines isn't 7 lbs. In fact I doubt it is even one third that weight.
Comments
<strong>The last upgrade Apple offered was back in 1994...
Apple doesn't want us to upgrade at little cost and thus lenghten the life of our macs, it wants us to buy a new machine everytime they release one.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is not about that they want you to buy a new one. They _do_ want you to buy a new one, but they also want you to sell/donate your old one. Installed user base. Very important. Gives the platform more momentum.
<strong>I'm betting that picture and that PDF were unrelated. I don't have it anymore - were other specs on it correct? For example, 166Mhz bus with PC2700 RAM?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I still have the PDF and the pix. Here are the specs on the PDF:
> up to 4 IDE or SCSI Hds + 2 CD/DVD Drives;
> + 4096 MB RAM, + next generation G5 ready, + Turbine Cooling
> 1AGP, 4PCI, 4 SDRAM, Slim Power Supply, NON ATX
> CD bays with Glossed Alum. flush front bezel and flip down doors
> Glossy Alum. lighted power button and headphone jack on front bezel
> Port detail on back: 2 USB, 2 FW, Ether net, modem, Stereo minijack line in and separate line out, Apple Audio Speaker Jack
> 3 IDE MB connections HD 1&2, HD 3&4, CD 1&2
No mention of MB FSB, and the only relation of the PDF with the pix is that they were posted by the same person (FWIW).
As for me, not that I'm satisfied with my current H/W, but I know what I want to buy ... and this current offering from Apple isn't it.
and ... MaCommentary, I agree!
(edit: "5" instead of "%" in G5)
[ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: MacJedai ]</p>
As far as I can see *everything* described in those leaked unofficial documents is either correct or as yet unknown. The case design and layout (inside and out) are *spot-on*, for example.
What we don't know:
? 7lb heatsink ? has anyone weighted one yet? The system weight has increased from 30lb to 42lb, a big jump which to my mind suggests it is still *possible*.
? Motherboard ? is the new mobo the same as the leaked one? At this stage it seems that it could be. I have yet to see a photo of the new mobo to compare for certainty.
? Processor/daughterboard ? well this one is intriguing. The new PMs are all duals but the photo showed only one processor. Perhaps the leaked photo was the first ever photo of a new chip that is coming soon!!! (Then again perhaps it was just an old single G4 card for testing).
? 4GB RAM ? well maybe Apple has yet to 'certify' 1GB DIMMs. We don't *know* if 4GB is impossible with the new PowerMacs.
Whilst trying not to be a rampant optimist I believe that the odds that these documents reveal that the new PowerMacs are a 'G5 Ready' design have increased *markedly* compared to what we thought a few days ago. Provided the mobo and the new system controller chip can handle DDR FSB then (as others have said) it might not be all that long until a new processor card is swapped in (ps: I doubt that Apple will sell it separately). For now I feel that this is the best available evidence that "the big catch-up" is not far away!!!
If the documents do have errors in them then I feel that it might be ages until we see the next-gen processor especially if, to support it, Apple would need to design and release yet another whole new case, mobo and controller chip (the last two being things that Apple does not change all that often).
Corrections and any refuting evidence welcome!
<strong>
Apple certainly isn't known for providing upgrade options. If the CPU daughter card can be upgraded, however, perhaps it could be a good third-party upgrade opportunity.
If Apple were to have suddenly changed policies and wanted to sell CPU upgrades themselves, it would do them little good to keep it a secret. Far better to loudly advertise "New Power Macs with upgradable CPUs!!!" and pull in extra sales from people who might be holding off waiting for The Next Big Thing.
I still wonder if the CPUs can be upgraded, but if they can be, I'd consider it a side-effect of what is easier and cheaper for Apple to do from a manufacturing and development standpoint. Apple might have designed the current motherboard with faster CPUs in mind, but also ready to deal with slow CPUs as well, if that's all the could get out of Motorola in time.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just not gonna happen. Apple can't market a machine as "upgradable". They did do this at one time (and sold the upgrades), but when they stopped producing upgrade cards, they got hit with a class-action suit. Don't remember what came of that, but I really doubt they would want to be put in that position again (or that Apple legal would allow it).
This is the same reason we'll never see a "lifetime support" option again either.
I suppose it's possible they could sell upgrade cards without claiming upgradability (no legal implications then), but I just can't see this happening somehow.....no market advantage then.
[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: taboo ]</p>
<strong>If there is any truth to the G5-ready comment is refers only to the case -- the current motherboard will not be upgradeable. The chipset communicates with the processor(s) using an MPX bus and either a hypothetical Moto G5 nor the anticipated IBM PowerPC will use the MPX bus. The MPX in the new machines is as far as Motorola is going to push that technology, it will be replaced by RapidIO in Motorola chips. IBM may use RapidIO or another technology which is capable of 6.4 GB/sec -- MPX will never get there and is Moto-specific.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Isn't it possible, however, even if the current G4 only supports an MPX bus, that the connection between the CPU card and the motherboard is designed to handle a faster bus?
My guess is that Moto or IBM have given their future processor to Apple to make a new Mobo and Apple has already optimized their OS=10.2. Remember that IBM and Moto will announce new processor the 15th of October. IBM will probablyannounce the next gen of PPC's. I also thing 1 GB DIMM's are on the way
Who knows but this is my guess.
<strong>If there is any truth to the G5-ready comment is refers only to the case -- the current motherboard will not be upgradeable. The chipset communicates with the processor(s) using an MPX bus and either a hypothetical Moto G5 nor the anticipated IBM PowerPC will use the MPX bus. .</strong><hr></blockquote>
Perhaps the new chipset is able to use other protocols than simply the MPX bus. after all the first G4 use both the MPX bus and the 60x bus. Who knows ?
Apple will not reveal this info anyway before we see a new chip.
Is the the Logic Board we will be seeing for the next 18 months, or is it the 'stop-gap' board that will be replaced a short 6 months down the road?
Let us hope that the entire Du-Op setup is a 'stop measure' They are fine machines. Faster than most people will ever need. That does not change the fact that it has no room to grow
That is a scary thing. This tech on iMacs in 12 months is one thing. On PowerMacs @ $3k+ it is just wrong.
[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: zaz ]</p>
<strong>The last upgrade Apple offered was back in 1994...
Apple doesn't want us to upgrade at little cost and thus lenghten the life of our macs, it wants us to buy a new machine everytime they release one.
Steve is especially greedy there.
Just look at the current RAM prices: 730.- for 512MB DDR333, while the same thing costs 230.- in a PC store (CHF) That's what I call an elephantite margin.
Also the heatsink the new machine has, while big, is nowhere near 7lbs in weight, so I guess, while the rest was true, those parts about heatsinks and G5 ready were pulled out of someones behind.
Of course I like to be positively surprised, for a change.
G-News</strong><hr></blockquote>
swiss people go here:<a href="http://www.heinigerag.ch/frameset.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.heinigerag.ch/frameset.htm</a>;
<strong>If their's a new processor on the way, Apple would have to optimize their OS X. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Not necessarily. It depends on the new CPU architecture.
>>theres som corn whiskey 2 cents jibba jabba.
-walloo
<strong>? 7lb heatsink ? has anyone weighted one yet? The system weight has increased from 30lb to 42lb, a big jump which to my mind suggests it is still *possible*.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Trust me the heatsink in those machines isn't 7 lbs. In fact I doubt it is even one third that weight.