Rumored next-generation Apple Silicon processor expected in fall 2023 at the earliest

Posted:
in Current Mac Hardware edited May 2023
Apple's first Macs running M3 chips could arrive by the end of 2023 at the earliest, a report from a reliable leaker claims, with an "M3 Pro" variant of Apple Silicon variant expected to arrive as well.

A current M2 Max MacBook Pro
A current M2 Max MacBook Pro


While Apple is currently introducing more Macs running on M2 chips, it may not be that long before M3 becomes more of a focus for consumers. Apple is apparently testing its M3 chips, which will be set to succeed the M2 generation possibly by the end of 2023.

In his "Power On" newsletter for Bloomberg, Mark Gurman writes about an App Store developer log that shows Apple is testing a new chip. The SoC in question is described as having a 12-core CPU, an 18-core GPU, and using 36GB of memory.

That CPU consists of six high-performance cores as well as six efficiency cores, Gurman adds. In effect, this is a two-efficiency-core increase over the 10-core CPU used in the entrylevel M2 Pro.

Based on that increase, it's extrapolated that the M3 Max could get a similar gain to 14 CPU cores, and maybe more than 40 GPU cores. For the M3 Ultra, that could be 28 CPU cores and over 80 GPU cores.

The chip line will be the first using a 3-nanometer process by TSMC, which will offer benefits including increasing the density of cores, potential power savings, and maybe even improved thermal management.

Gurman believes that the chip in question is the base variant of M3 Pro, which could end up in the next update of the 14-inch MacBook Pro and 16-inch MacBook Pro, that could be released in early 2024.

While those variants could land next year, there's a chance that the chip could be used in Mac units in 2023. Gurman continues to insist that M3 Macs will arrive in the fall at the earliest, with M3 versions of MacBook Air and iMac also in development.

Early rumors, which we doubted, predicted the M3 to arrive as soon as April 2023 in the 15-inch MacBook Air. That date has come and gone, and it obviously didn't come to pass.

Read on AppleInsider
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 34
    grom007grom007 Posts: 15member
    I do not understand why Apple does not release the m3 MacBook Pro before the MacBook Air. It gives incentive to consumers to buy the very best.
    jeffharrisbyronldanox9secondkox2d_2williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 34
    jeffharrisjeffharris Posts: 801member
    My current MacBook Pro is a 15" 2019 i9 and I definitely could use more speed at this point.
    96GB of RAM looks pretty tasty!

    Been thinking about upgrading to a 16" M2 Max, but if the M3 is this close, it may be worth waiting until the fall?
    Then they say possibly NEXT year? But no-one is sure when an M3 MB will ship. Great.

    WHY the MacBook Air first? Does Apple sell so many more of those?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 34
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,849member
    2 weeks from now there will be another story saying it'll be out this summer...then 3 weeks later it'll be delayed until 2024. These people don't know shit! 
    mikeybabesjony0bloggerblogwatto_cobradope_ahmine
  • Reply 4 of 34
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,849member
    My current MacBook Pro is a 15" 2019 i9 and I definitely could use more speed at this point.
    96GB of RAM looks pretty tasty!

    Been thinking about upgrading to a 16" M2 Max, but if the M3 is this close, it may be worth waiting until the fall?
    Then they say possibly NEXT year? But no-one is sure when an M3 MB will ship. Great.

    WHY the MacBook Air first? Does Apple sell so many more of those?
    I wanna say that the MacBook Air is Apple's top selling laptop?
    byronlwilliamlondonentropyswatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 34
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,849member
    grom007 said:
    I do not understand why Apple does not release the m3 MacBook Pro before the MacBook Air. It gives incentive to consumers to buy the very best.
    What do you mean very best? What's the very best to you doesn't mean it's the very best for someone else just looking for an ultra-portable MacBook. Not everyone wants a more expensive heavier laptop with more ports as its overkill for their needs. Different people have different needs which is why MacBook Air exists in the first place. 
    byronl9secondkox2FileMakerFellerentropyswatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 34
    AniMillAniMill Posts: 170member
    Either the Mac Pro is dead, or so delayed that it’s become superfluous in their product lineup. Perhaps it’s become such a niche that any further investment simply is not a viability for Apple anymore. Either way, if Apple does not at least preview a Mac Pro option at WWDC, I think it’s dead Jim. Though $3000 ski goggles are considered the “next” thing - but I believe AR/VR is already past the public interest inflection point. WWDC is going to be a very interesting show.
    williamlondoncgWerks9secondkox2jony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 34
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,849member
    AniMill said:
    Either the Mac Pro is dead, or so delayed that it’s become superfluous in their product lineup. Perhaps it’s become such a niche that any further investment simply is not a viability for Apple anymore. Either way, if Apple does not at least preview a Mac Pro option at WWDC, I think it’s dead Jim. Though $3000 ski goggles are considered the “next” thing - but I believe AR/VR is already past the public interest inflection point. WWDC is going to be a very interesting show.
    I doubt it's dead either way. They're just waiting until it's ready to be released. They cannot release another trashcan like MacPro with little to no expandability. I think they learned from that. I think there's still a market for it, even if it's a smaller market (which I believe it is). It'll come out eventually. 
    byronlwilliamlondonjeffharris9secondkox2jony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 34
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,857member
    In other words, nothing new. 

    The same schedule since m1. 
    danoxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 34
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,857member
    AniMill said:
    Either the Mac Pro is dead, or so delayed that it’s become superfluous in their product lineup. Perhaps it’s become such a niche that any further investment simply is not a viability for Apple anymore. Either way, if Apple does not at least preview a Mac Pro option at WWDC, I think it’s dead Jim. Though $3000 ski goggles are considered the “next” thing - but I believe AR/VR is already past the public interest inflection point. WWDC is going to be a very interesting show.
    Not dead or superfluous. 

    The delay is a great thing. 

    We could have been stuck with an m2 ultra and that would suck. 

    A delay means that Apple is ensuring I’m the Mac Peo is the butt-kicking, name-taking monster it’s supposed to be. 
    byronlmacxpressjeffharrisjony0entropyswatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 34
    YasminGYasminG Posts: 2member
    I’m sick and tired waiting for a new iMac. They should have at least offered an M2 offering
    williamlondonking editor the grate9secondkox2headfull0winedanoxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 34
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,952member
    Bummer, I'll be waiting for the M3 minimally. But, my Intel mini w/eGPU is still doing well, so should make it just fine.

    Unfortunately, my son needs to buy something in the next few months, so we're probably looking at M1 Max or M2 Pro and trying to figure out which has the edge for what he does (and will want to do).

    It seems more like it is the M1, M1.25 (called M2), and M2 (called M3) in reality. Hopefully that M3 will put Apple a bit more back where many of his were thinking/hoping when this Apple Silicon stuff started. We're now solidly back to playing catch-up with the PC market, at least in terms of GPUs.

    We all got bit by Apple's early planning/design, I think. I was amazed at what Apple accomplished when everyone was deep in the pandemic, but now 3 years later, we're feeling the reality of the pandemic on Apple. It was just delayed a lot more than other companies.

    What I really hope we'll start hearing, is more of the tech differences of the M3, instead of just more cores and energy efficiency (again, mostly on the GPU-front). We're now years into the transition, and we still don't really know what Apple's plan is for the pro users in GPU-centric disciplines.

    macxpress said:
    I wanna say that the MacBook Air is Apple's top selling laptop?
    That even makes it a bit more puzzling, as my understanding is a huge problem here is going to be supply/yields. It seems like they might just be trying to follow the release schedule they've initiated (ie. new chip starts in the low end models and then to more advanced systems). Otherwise, they'd maybe be better to introduce the M3 in the Pro and Studio.

    AniMill said:
    Either the Mac Pro is dead, or so delayed that it’s become superfluous in their product lineup. Perhaps it’s become such a niche that any further investment simply is not a viability for Apple anymore. Either way, if Apple does not at least preview a Mac Pro option at WWDC, I think it’s dead Jim. Though $3000 ski goggles are considered the “next” thing - but I believe AR/VR is already past the public interest inflection point. WWDC is going to be a very interesting show.
    Yeah, I'll certainly check it out, but kind of sounds like another yawner on the way. I have near zero interest in the VR stuff at this point. Maybe a bit in AR, but more professionally (vertical markets) than any use for myself personally.

    I'm a bit torn on the Mac Pro as well. Unless they give-in in terms of expandability, the Studio seems like the new Mac Pro. What would be the point of a huge case if it can't be expanded? (And, but give-in, I mean add AMD GPUs or something like that back to the platform.)

    I'm hoping they are just way behind - the M3 will be impressive - and they would just be too embarrassed to release a Mac Pro right now with M1/M2 tech in it.

    9secondkox2 said:
    A delay means that Apple is ensuring I’m the Mac Peo is the butt-kicking, name-taking monster it’s supposed to be. 
    That's the hard thing for me to grasp. It would seem (at least from what we know), unless they add AMD back in, it's going to be adequate at best. Hopefully we're pleasantly surprised. Currently, at least for GPU, a top of the line Mac kind of equals a mid-level gaming PC... and then only somewhat (better at one task, worse at others).

    Note: this is on the pro side, though. On the consumer side, Apple is certainly kicking butt.

    YasminG said:
    I’m sick and tired waiting for a new iMac. They should have at least offered an M2 offering
    I think they just didn't want to do an iMac M1.25.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 34
    multimediamultimedia Posts: 1,037member
    Just bought the base M2 Pro Mac mini in January. But I can’t get external Thunderbolt 4 SSD enclosures to deliver even 10Gbs speed hooked to one of the four 40Gbps ports! Now I have to travel 25 miles on my electric bike (don’t drive my car any more) over a mountain (Santa Cruz to Los Gatos CA) to the nearest Apple Store to find out I’ve probably got a lemon Mac mini.

    Looking forward, I’ll probably buy a loaded M3 Pro Mac mini next year. Expect that’ll be my last Mac as I’ll be 77 then. I’m not a laptop kind of person.
    danoxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 34
    cgWerks said:
    Bummer, I'll be waiting for the M3 minimally. But, my Intel mini w/eGPU is still doing well, so should make it just fine.

    Unfortunately, my son needs to buy something in the next few months, so we're probably looking at M1 Max or M2 Pro and trying to figure out which has the edge for what he does (and will want to do).

    It seems more like it is the M1, M1.25 (called M2), and M2 (called M3) in reality. Hopefully that M3 will put Apple a bit more back where many of his were thinking/hoping when this Apple Silicon stuff started. We're now solidly back to playing catch-up with the PC market, at least in terms of GPUs.

    We all got bit by Apple's early planning/design, I think. I was amazed at what Apple accomplished when everyone was deep in the pandemic, but now 3 years later, we're feeling the reality of the pandemic on Apple. It was just delayed a lot more than other companies.

    What I really hope we'll start hearing, is more of the tech differences of the M3, instead of just more cores and energy efficiency (again, mostly on the GPU-front). We're now years into the transition, and we still don't really know what Apple's plan is for the pro users in GPU-centric disciplines.

    macxpress said:
    I wanna say that the MacBook Air is Apple's top selling laptop?
    That even makes it a bit more puzzling, as my understanding is a huge problem here is going to be supply/yields. It seems like they might just be trying to follow the release schedule they've initiated (ie. new chip starts in the low end models and then to more advanced systems). Otherwise, they'd maybe be better to introduce the M3 in the Pro and Studio.

    AniMill said:
    Either the Mac Pro is dead, or so delayed that it’s become superfluous in their product lineup. Perhaps it’s become such a niche that any further investment simply is not a viability for Apple anymore. Either way, if Apple does not at least preview a Mac Pro option at WWDC, I think it’s dead Jim. Though $3000 ski goggles are considered the “next” thing - but I believe AR/VR is already past the public interest inflection point. WWDC is going to be a very interesting show.
    Yeah, I'll certainly check it out, but kind of sounds like another yawner on the way. I have near zero interest in the VR stuff at this point. Maybe a bit in AR, but more professionally (vertical markets) than any use for myself personally.

    I'm a bit torn on the Mac Pro as well. Unless they give-in in terms of expandability, the Studio seems like the new Mac Pro. What would be the point of a huge case if it can't be expanded? (And, but give-in, I mean add AMD GPUs or something like that back to the platform.)

    I'm hoping they are just way behind - the M3 will be impressive - and they would just be too embarrassed to release a Mac Pro right now with M1/M2 tech in it.

    9secondkox2 said:
    A delay means that Apple is ensuring I’m the Mac Peo is the butt-kicking, name-taking monster it’s supposed to be. 
    That's the hard thing for me to grasp. It would seem (at least from what we know), unless they add AMD back in, it's going to be adequate at best. Hopefully we're pleasantly surprised. Currently, at least for GPU, a top of the line Mac kind of equals a mid-level gaming PC... and then only somewhat (better at one task, worse at others).

    Note: this is on the pro side, though. On the consumer side, Apple is certainly kicking butt.

    YasminG said:
    I’m sick and tired waiting for a new iMac. They should have at least offered an M2 offering
    I think they just didn't want to do an iMac M1.25.
    Remember that TSMC makes the majority of CPUs/GPUs for AMD, Apple and NVIDIA (and many others).  
    Samsung makes most of the remaining leading edge chips.  
    Intel is way behind, and any high performance chips they have are not good candidates for laptops that are GPU intensive.  
    Intel laptops have to be plugged-in to achieve high GPU performance, with large amounts of heat and suck batteries dry rapidly.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 34
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,952member
    BlueLightning said:
    Remember that TSMC makes the majority of CPUs/GPUs for AMD, Apple and NVIDIA (and many others).  
    Samsung makes most of the remaining leading edge chips.  
    Intel is way behind, and any high performance chips they have are not good candidates for laptops that are GPU intensive.  
    Intel laptops have to be plugged-in to achieve high GPU performance, with large amounts of heat and suck batteries dry rapidly.  
    True, though this mainly means they'll just use more power while doing it... but at least they can do it.
    Apple seems a bit ahead on the CPU front, but quite a way behind on the GPU end.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 34
    cgWerks said:
    BlueLightning said:
    Remember that TSMC makes the majority of CPUs/GPUs for AMD, Apple and NVIDIA (and many others).  
    Samsung makes most of the remaining leading edge chips.  
    Intel is way behind, and any high performance chips they have are not good candidates for laptops that are GPU intensive.  
    Intel laptops have to be plugged-in to achieve high GPU performance, with large amounts of heat and suck batteries dry rapidly.  
    True, though this mainly means they'll just use more power while doing it... but at least they can do it.
    Apple seems a bit ahead on the CPU front, but quite a way behind on the GPU end.
    Like many home users, I use more CPU than GPU cycles.  
    There are also hardware video coders and decoders, as well as the 16 neural/AI cores that are used for video functions.  
    Apple is mostly a consumer electronics company.  
    Compared to my former late 2013 13" i5 2-core mbp (with no dedicated gpu cores), the 2023 14" M2 Pro mbp (10/16/16 cores) kicks ass.  
    4k video playback caused full fan speed on the 2013 i5 (and lagging video).  
    Fans aren't even activated on the 2023 M2 Pro (and I see short parts of video that were skipped on the Intel chip).  
    edited May 2023 williamlondonwatto_cobradewmecgWerks
  • Reply 16 of 34
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,381moderator
    WHY the MacBook Air first? Does Apple sell so many more of those?
    Yes, mostly due to the large price difference. Air starts at $999, MBP (with Pro chips) starts at $1999.

    ASP is $1200-1300, (3 x $999 + 1 x $1999) / 4 = $1249.

    Air outsells MBP by at least 3:1, 28m units x 0.8 = 22m laptops = 16m Air (+13" MBP), 6m MBP.

    The $3k+ MBPs will be <2m units/year so 8:1 vs Air.
    macxpress said:
    AniMill said:
    Either the Mac Pro is dead, or so delayed that it’s become superfluous in their product lineup. Perhaps it’s become such a niche that any further investment simply is not a viability for Apple anymore. Either way, if Apple does not at least preview a Mac Pro option at WWDC, I think it’s dead Jim. Though $3000 ski goggles are considered the “next” thing - but I believe AR/VR is already past the public interest inflection point. WWDC is going to be a very interesting show.
    I doubt it's dead either way. They're just waiting until it's ready to be released. They cannot release another trashcan like MacPro with little to no expandability. I think they learned from that. I think there's still a market for it, even if it's a smaller market (which I believe it is). It'll come out eventually. 
    They already released a successor to the 2013 Mac Pro with little to no expandability with the Mac Studio. What they learned from the 2013 Mac Pro was not to rely on Intel and AMD for their chips. They build their own chips now and they can build whatever they want.

    They said there was a Mac Pro coming, it sells below 1% of their units volume so it's not that important. It could launch with M3 but I think they'll announce an M2 model at WWDC. If it's an M2 Ultra with a larger GPU chip (2x M2 Ultra GPU cores = 56TFLOPs), it will do just fine. M3 version would be close to 100TFLOPs.
    williamlondonFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 34
    grom007 said:
    I do not understand why Apple does not release the m3 MacBook Pro before the MacBook Air. It gives incentive to consumers to buy the very best.
    This is how it works:
    1. The first silicon out in a new generation is the A-series. This is for obvious reasons, Apple builds hundreds of millions of these for iPhone and iPad.
    2. The base M-series is a variant of the A-series. It powers the consumer line (MB Air, iMac, Mini, iPad Pro) and Apple can make these in volume without missing a beat. The iPhone and the iPad pay for this. That's the genius of Apple Silicon.
    3. The M-series Pro/Max (and Ultra) is a different story. There are real development costs associated with designing and building the Pro/Max (the Max is just a Pro with two GPU units instead of one, or the Pro is just a Max with only one GPU instead of two), and that development must follow the A-series and the base M-series. It can't happen the other way around. The science and the economics of fabrication don't allow it. Thus, the MB Pro, the (possible) iMac Pro, the Mini Pro, the Mac Studio, and the (probable) Mac Pro all have to wait for the process to unfold.
    The economics of doing it the other way around are beyond prohibitive. No one with any knowledge of TSMC's fabs has ever suggested the M3 would appear before 2024. The iPhone Pro line will get 3nm silicon in Fall 2023, probably. But the M-series won't see a refresh until 2024. All the rumors of M3 appearing imminently are just wishful thinking. It's never had any basis in reality.
    williamlondonFileMakerFellerdarkvaderwatto_cobracgWerks
  • Reply 18 of 34
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,372member
    grom007 said:
    I do not understand why Apple does not release the m3 MacBook Pro before the MacBook Air. It gives incentive to consumers to buy the very best.
    This is how it works:
    1. The first silicon out in a new generation is the A-series. This is for obvious reasons, Apple builds hundreds of millions of these for iPhone and iPad.
    2. The base M-series is a variant of the A-series. It powers the consumer line (MB Air, iMac, Mini, iPad Pro) and Apple can make these in volume without missing a beat. The iPhone and the iPad pay for this. That's the genius of Apple Silicon.
    3. The M-series Pro/Max (and Ultra) is a different story. There are real development costs associated with designing and building the Pro/Max (the Max is just a Pro with two GPU units instead of one, or the Pro is just a Max with only one GPU instead of two), and that development must follow the A-series and the base M-series. It can't happen the other way around. The science and the economics of fabrication don't allow it. Thus, the MB Pro, the (possible) iMac Pro, the Mini Pro, the Mac Studio, and the (probable) Mac Pro all have to wait for the process to unfold.
    The economics of doing it the other way around are beyond prohibitive. No one with any knowledge of TSMC's fabs has ever suggested the M3 would appear before 2024. The iPhone Pro line will get 3nm silicon in Fall 2023, probably. But the M-series won't see a refresh until 2024. All the rumors of M3 appearing imminently are just wishful thinking. It's never had any basis in reality.
    At some point the A-series and M-series might merge into a single higher volume die bined for it various uses. Then it would make sense for the M-series products to out fresh in the market prior to xmas shopping. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 34
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,857member
    mattinoz said:
    grom007 said:
    I do not understand why Apple does not release the m3 MacBook Pro before the MacBook Air. It gives incentive to consumers to buy the very best.
    This is how it works:
    1. The first silicon out in a new generation is the A-series. This is for obvious reasons, Apple builds hundreds of millions of these for iPhone and iPad.
    2. The base M-series is a variant of the A-series. It powers the consumer line (MB Air, iMac, Mini, iPad Pro) and Apple can make these in volume without missing a beat. The iPhone and the iPad pay for this. That's the genius of Apple Silicon.
    3. The M-series Pro/Max (and Ultra) is a different story. There are real development costs associated with designing and building the Pro/Max (the Max is just a Pro with two GPU units instead of one, or the Pro is just a Max with only one GPU instead of two), and that development must follow the A-series and the base M-series. It can't happen the other way around. The science and the economics of fabrication don't allow it. Thus, the MB Pro, the (possible) iMac Pro, the Mini Pro, the Mac Studio, and the (probable) Mac Pro all have to wait for the process to unfold.
    The economics of doing it the other way around are beyond prohibitive. No one with any knowledge of TSMC's fabs has ever suggested the M3 would appear before 2024. The iPhone Pro line will get 3nm silicon in Fall 2023, probably. But the M-series won't see a refresh until 2024. All the rumors of M3 appearing imminently are just wishful thinking. It's never had any basis in reality.
    At some point the A-series and M-series might merge into a single higher volume die bined for it various uses. Then it would make sense for the M-series products to out fresh in the market prior to xmas shopping. 
    At 3nm and lower, the iPhone can and likely will be running actual m series branded chips. Probably limited to the Pro Max models at first - so they can price gouge. 

    As it is though, there isn’t much difference between s series and m series. Mostly Just more cores, more RAM, higher clocks, and some GPU differences. So it’s mostly a branding thing as it is. 

    The way Apple gets Pro and Max chips is by adding cores and RAM on the same die - It’s a BRILLIANT, cost effective strategy and scales the performance as high as they want. 
  • Reply 20 of 34
    alandailalandail Posts: 757member
    grom007 said:
    I do not understand why Apple does not release the m3 MacBook Pro before the MacBook Air. It gives incentive to consumers to buy the very best.
    The MacBook Pro uses the more advanced, more complex, lower volume version of the chip, it's not going to be ready for mass production as quickly as the base version.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
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