Why Tesla can get by without CarPlay but other car makers can't

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 90
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 2,217member

    Apple:
    • Introduces CarPlay, version 1.0
    • Introduces the new CarPlay experience, which everybody gets seamlessly
    Google:
    • Introduces Android Auto
    • Introduces an entirely different platform, Android Automotive (head explodes)
    GM:
    • Drops CarPlay and Android Auto in favour of building their own on top of Android Automotive, instantly alienating all iPhone users.

    I prefer Apple's seamless and all-inclusive approach, rather than the mess that Google introduced with Android Automotive, an approach that is profit-centric, not user-centric.
    edge57lolliverFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 42 of 90
    elehcdnelehcdn Posts: 388member
    The point that the article and most posters seem to forget is that a modern in-auto entertainment system requires a connection to the internet. Teslas have it because of their OTA update strategy (and likely Starlink support) and GM has been partnered with OnStar forever for satellite service. CarPlay/Android Auto works because of the extensive cellular network in the US, although it does have issues in remote areas where cellular service is spotty and the device has to resort to using pre-downloaded content and GPS.

    Satellite systems have an inherent advantage because coverage of the US is almost universal - I had a GM with OnStar for a while and there was nowhere that I didn't coverage. But the downside is having to share your information that is being carried in your smartphone with the auto system. I wonder how many people are truly comfortable with sharing all that information with yet another party in the case of an automaker when your phone/tablet/computer already has such a large footprint.

    I am still beholden to CarPlay because so much of my digital life is tied up in the Apple eco-system and all the apps that Apple allows in the iTunes Store. Individual auto manufacturers are going to box you up in their ecosystem and are less likely to allow support for other online developers, especially smaller developers. And as happens with big conglomerates, they will make deals with some content providers and block out others meaning that you are at their mercy in hoping that they are able to negotiate decent terms with content providers who will also have to develop applications for their auto-based operating system.

    Apple (and Android) are always going to have a lot more apps loading to CarPlay because it is a gateway to their whole cellular ecosystem whereas until Tesla or GM produce a phone and an application store developers are going to have to weigh development and support for their apps with the number of devices (vehicles) it will play on.
  • Reply 43 of 90
    alandailalandail Posts: 755member
    edge57 said:
    siretman said:
    I don’t rent a car unless it has CarPlay. I am ready with my USB cable and all waypoints set as favorites in my Maps app. 
    The only way to go in a new city with least amount of errors and screwups. 
    I totally agree... and I won't buy a new car unless it has CarPlay integration either. It's just so much easier to have your Maps destinations and favorites, Apple Music playlists, Messages, Contacts, Calendar, Reminders integration, etc. directly from your phone than it is to set up something new. 
    Tesla integrates messages. It reads and displays incoming messages, you reply with voice.

    Tesla integrates the calendar. Not only can you view your phone's calendar on the Tesla screen, if the address is in the calendar, it automatically navigates to the appointment when you get in the car. Including routing in charging stops if you're going somewhere far away. And preconditioning the battery for faster charging as you approach the charger.

    Tesla integrates your contacts. you can call and text people by their name, and their name shows up when they call or text you.

    Apple Music is on the Tesla, complete with your playlists. The native Apple Music client works better than CarPlay.

    Tesla has its own navigation, you can forward an address to your car as easily as you would forward it to a friend and it adds the navigation to the address.

    There really is no reason to even have CarPlay on the Tesla since they added Apple Music last year. That was the one feature I missed from CarPlay the first few years I owned the car.

    This is coming from someone who wouldn't buy a car without CarPlay and held off buying a Tesla for 2 years longer than I shoudl off because it didn't have CarPlay. Day one of owning the car I wished I hadn't waited.

    Buying my first Tesla vs my old car was like buying my first Mac, my first iPhone, my first iPad.
    edited May 2023 williamlondon
  • Reply 44 of 90
    alandailalandail Posts: 755member
    elehcdn said:
    The point that the article and most posters seem to forget is that a modern in-auto entertainment system requires a connection to the internet. Teslas have it because of their OTA update strategy (and likely Starlink support) and GM has been partnered with OnStar forever for satellite service. CarPlay/Android Auto works because of the extensive cellular network in the US, although it does have issues in remote areas where cellular service is spotty and the device has to resort to using pre-downloaded content and GPS.

    Satellite systems have an inherent advantage because coverage of the US is almost universal - I had a GM with OnStar for a while and there was nowhere that I didn't coverage. But the downside is having to share your information that is being carried in your smartphone with the auto system. I wonder how many people are truly comfortable with sharing all that information with yet another party in the case of an automaker when your phone/tablet/computer already has such a large footprint.

    I am still beholden to CarPlay because so much of my digital life is tied up in the Apple eco-system and all the apps that Apple allows in the iTunes Store. Individual auto manufacturers are going to box you up in their ecosystem and are less likely to allow support for other online developers, especially smaller developers. And as happens with big conglomerates, they will make deals with some content providers and block out others meaning that you are at their mercy in hoping that they are able to negotiate decent terms with content providers who will also have to develop applications for their auto-based operating system.

    Apple (and Android) are always going to have a lot more apps loading to CarPlay because it is a gateway to their whole cellular ecosystem whereas until Tesla or GM produce a phone and an application store developers are going to have to weigh development and support for their apps with the number of devices (vehicles) it will play on.
    Quite the opposite. Tesla Model X and S have full Steam support with PS5 quality GPU behind it. You can play any steam game you can play on a high end gaming PC on those cars. 
    jcs2305williamlondon
  • Reply 45 of 90
    alandailalandail Posts: 755member
    auxio said:
    JP234 said:
    Here's my personal favorite part of this story:
    "Games and video services are not available unless the vehicle is parked."

    You would hope this is true, and it is, unless you really, really want to watch movies and play games while you're driving. In that case vehicular suicide is readily available. Here's just one of thousands I found…
    I actually thought this line was bizarre:
    "Tesla charges $99 a year for its premium connectivity, but it doesn't limit people from using navigation or games."

    Games? That's the thing they chose to give for free (aside from the basics)? Most people who can afford a Tesla and have kids will likely have bought them a much better portable gaming system.
    Model S and X have full Steam support with PS5 quality graphics, better than portable gaming systems.


    edited May 2023 williamlondon
  • Reply 46 of 90
    edge57edge57 Posts: 5member
    alandail said:
    edge57 said:
    siretman said:
    I don’t rent a car unless it has CarPlay. I am ready with my USB cable and all waypoints set as favorites in my Maps app. 
    The only way to go in a new city with least amount of errors and screwups. 
    I totally agree... and I won't buy a new car unless it has CarPlay integration either. It's just so much easier to have your Maps destinations and favorites, Apple Music playlists, Messages, Contacts, Calendar, Reminders integration, etc. directly from your phone than it is to set up something new. 
    Tesla integrates messages. It reads and displays incoming messages, you reply with voice.

    Tesla integrates the calendar. Not only can you view your phone's calendar on the Tesla screen, if the address is in the calendar, it automatically navigates to the appointment when you get in the car. Including routing in charging stops if you're going somewhere far away. And preconditioning the battery for faster charging as you approach the charger.

    Tesla integrates your contacts. you can call and text people by their name, and their name shows up when they call or text you.

    Apple Music is on the Tesla, complete with your playlists. The native Apple Music client works better than CarPlay.

    Tesla has its own navigation, you can forward an address to your car as easily as you would forward it to a friend and it adds the navigation to the address.

    There really is no reason to even have CarPlay on the Tesla since they added Apple Music last year. That was the one feature I missed from CarPlay the first few years I owned the car.

    This is coming from someone who wouldn't buy a car without CarPlay and held off buying a Tesla for 2 years longer than I shoudl off because it didn't have CarPlay. Day one of owning the car I wished I hadn't waited.

    Buying my first Tesla vs my old car was like buying my first Mac, my first iPhone, my first iPad.
    Not knocking Tesla because I've never seen it, but I prefer an interface that's consistent across multiple devices (cars). My Mazda6 will also display much of the content (contacts, calendar, music, etc. on my phone, but the interface blows compared to CarPlay. I think allowing the auto buyer choice over which platform they prefer is the way to go across the board! I want a choice between stockOS, CarPlayOS, AdroidOS, etc. Perhaps I'll love the stockOS over CarPlay, but I still want the option to choose. 
  • Reply 47 of 90
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,555member
    CarPlay does not support web browser. If one likes to surf the net while the car is not moving, CarPlay is useless. 
    I pondered your viewpoint for a while. It's interesting, but if the car's screen's hardware does not physically support multiple fingers at the same time, then lack of a browser is not really Apple's fault, is it? (The Apple web browser supports multi-touch.) My Honda's screen's touch interface seems pretty unresponsive and laggy to me. Do you really think people would want a bad hardware experience to browse the web? Moreover, every car's screen (that I've seen) is so tiny. And touching the screen would require holding your arm straight out for a long time. A browser doesn't seem very practical to me. So I think I'll stick to my iPad in the car, getting Internet access by using my iPhone as a WIFI hotspot.

    Your point is still valid, but calling Carplay "useless" is really an overreach.
    FileMakerFellerwaveparticleedge57
  • Reply 48 of 90
    mystigomystigo Posts: 183member
    I didn't realize Tesla did not have CarPlay support. Even if Musk wasn't such a huge donkey butt, that would stop me buying one right there.
    edge57williamlondon
  • Reply 49 of 90
    chadbagchadbag Posts: 1,995member
    Tesla can, at least now, as it has first mover advantage, as someone mentioned earlier.   They have the cachet and “cult” so people sober look it.  As EV goes more
    mainstream, people will want it.  I won’t ever buy a car without it, Tesla or not. 
  • Reply 50 of 90
    chadbagchadbag Posts: 1,995member
    jdonAI said:
    sirdir said:
    Can they? I’m not considering buying a Tesla, the lack of CarPlay is one of the reasons 
    Yeah, sure, that's the reason . . .
    Yes, it is one of the main reasons I won’t consider a Tesla when I go to upgrade my PHEV with a BEV. 
  • Reply 51 of 90
    waveparticlewaveparticle Posts: 1,497member
    CarPlay does not support web browser. If one likes to surf the net while the car is not moving, CarPlay is useless. 
    I pondered your viewpoint for a while. It's interesting, but if the car's screen's hardware does not physically support multiple fingers at the same time, then lack of a browser is not really Apple's fault, is it? (The Apple web browser supports multi-touch.) My Honda's screen's touch interface seems pretty unresponsive and laggy to me. Do you really think people would want a bad hardware experience to browse the web? Moreover, every car's screen (that I've seen) is so tiny. And touching the screen would require holding your arm straight out for a long time. A browser doesn't seem very practical to me. So I think I'll stick to my iPad in the car, getting Internet access by using my iPhone as a WIFI hotspot.

    Your point is still valid, but calling Carplay "useless" is really an overreach.
    Do you need special screen to support multi-touch? I don't know. But nowadays, most car screens are at least 7 inches. Some can go as large as 17 inches. 
    edited May 2023
  • Reply 52 of 90
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,568member
    Tesla basically has Apple CarPlay. Just not Apple’s running software. It’s close enough. 

    GM thinking people want to pay again just to access the media they’ve already paid for is shortsighted and gouging. 

    People are fed up paying a million ways to Sunday. 
    alandail
  • Reply 53 of 90
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,568member
    applguy said:
    With Tesla, it feels like the car was built around the infotainment center. It's the nucleus of the car. All other manufactures it feels like the car was designed by one group, the infotainment by another, and another group put the two together and hoped for the best. I don't miss CarPlay driving the Tesla. I can't say that driving the BMW or Honda. 
    Agreed. Tesla has had it down for a while. I do feel they need to redesign the UI though. 

    Bought a ‘22 BMW with CarPlay. Love it. But it would suck without it - or if I had to pay every month to use it. Sheesh. 
  • Reply 54 of 90
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,568member
    alandail said:
    blastdoor said:
    In theory GM might be able to get away with this. The keys are to:
    1.  build a good UI
    2. support all the relevant content streaming services (there's no reason that Apple Music, Spotify, Netflix, etc couldn't be offered in a GM car)
    and, not absolutely necessarily but ideally
    3. offer something special/unique that is better than CarPlay through a phone. 

    #2 is drop dead easy. 
    #1 is where I suspect GM will struggle, though *in theory* they could get it right by hiring the right people and letting them do their job

    For #3, Tesla offers seamless integration with their charging network and... uh... I guess "full" self driving (ahem). 

    GM's super cruise is arguably already better than Tesla "full" self driving, so that's something. I doubt GM will be able to address the seamless charging integration, but I suppose it's not crazy bananas impossible that they might. 

    So bottom line.... Yeah, it's theoretically possible that GM could make this work. But software is hard and I'm skeptical GM can pull it off. 

    Absolutely isn't better than FSD. My car can drive from my street to any destination anywhere in the country, highway or city. No other car comes close to doing that.
    It’s the far and away best system available so far. No one else is close yet. I suspect this exact feature is what’s delaying an apple car as well. It’s not so easy to do. 
  • Reply 55 of 90
    sflagelsflagel Posts: 795member
    alandail said:
    sbdude said:
    Tesla can get away with it because no other manufacturer has the rabid (and often blind) fan base that Tesla does. One need only look at manufacturing defects, reliability and other objective measures as they relate to "satisfaction" ratings to determine that Tesla drivers often overlook the shortcomings simply because of their adulation for the brand. CarPlay is but one of the features you won't find in a Tesla compared to other brands: satellite radio, branded (premium) sound systems, a speedometer in front of the steering wheel, an external/internal refresh every 7 years or so.
    I went from Mercedes E Class with upgraded audio to Tesla Model 3 Performance. The Tesla Model 3 sound system absolutely blows away what I had in the Mercedes. Everyone who rides in my car is amazed at how good the sound system is.

    Maybe take the time to understand why Tesla absolutely blows away customer satisfaction surveys instead of assuming everyone who owns one is wrong.

    Going from the Mercedes to the Tesla was like going from a flip phone to an iPhone.

    We replaced our second Mercedes within 2 weeks because we both only wanted to drive the Tesla.

    And the longer we own them, the better they get though over the air software updates, just like our phones and computers.
    Maybe it was going from an ICE car to an electric car that blew you away, rather than Mercedes to Tesla? There are definitely excellent electric alternatives to Tesla now available (although I hear that the US struggles to build good alternative charging networks, which is not an issue in Europe). 
    edited May 2023 tmaywilliamlondon
  • Reply 56 of 90
    sflagelsflagel Posts: 795member
    alandail said:
    sflagel said:
    alandail said:
    siretman said:
    I don’t rent a car unless it has CarPlay. I am ready with my USB cable and all waypoints set as favorites in my Maps app. 
    The only way to go in a new city with least amount of errors and screwups. 
    I won't rent a car unless it's a Tesla.

    CarPlay brings navigation and music to cars that support it. Tesla has those native, including Apple Music. On trips, when combined with FSD, Tesla's navigation doesn't just tell you where to charge, it drives you from charger to charger. We took a 3400 mile road trip recently, I drove 100 miles, the car drove the rest. I wouldn't even think of taking that same road trip in any other car.
    Did the car change lanes automatically, or do yo have to use the blinker?
    does all of it automatically. Changes lanes, taking exits, turning, stop lights, stop signs, traffic circles. Most people really have no idea how advanced FSD Beta is because Tesla doesn't advertise.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWHizZOnroA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKGI-PcHnPg
    Thanks for this. I tried FSD this morning (in London) and have to say that it did not work well. It did not recognise speed limits, kept too much distance to the front car so others constantly got in front of me, did not recognise a red light at a pedestrian crossing, waited ages before changing lanes on the motorway, and on the exit it took the inside instead of the outside lane. It was scary. Maybe it works in the US but definitely not in the UK.  

    (And of course in the UK you need to hang your arm on the steering wheel so it thinks you are in control). 
    edited May 2023 tmaywilliamlondonroundaboutnow
  • Reply 57 of 90
    theLedgertheLedger Posts: 17member
    It is true - many new car buyers are turned off when Apple CarPlay or Android Auto is not offered. Apple has provided a way for content makers to get their content into a vehicle. The people at GM are looking to make money in two ways - subscription fees and charging content makers to get their apps onto their vehicles. Tesla gets away with it partly because their subscription fee increasingly offered new features so people saw value in it.

    BMW tried the subscription fees thing and nobody liked it - partly because it didn’t offer any promises of increasing value. Even the newish CEO of Aston Martin was appalled that the previous leadership showed little concern for in car telematics and the lack of CarPlay support. So much so that it’s one of the featured items in their spy shots. 

    But just so you know - there are all kinds of hacks out there to get Apple CarPlay on a Tesla screen. I just don’t see how an automaker with a small team will be able to compete with the likes of Apple that spends way more and has the culture to create what it does. 




  • Reply 58 of 90
    jfabula1jfabula1 Posts: 138member
    sirdir said:
    Can they? I’m not considering buying a Tesla, the lack of CarPlay is one of the reasons 
    Wowed…..maybe it’s the price of Tesla is the main reason. You can do anything in Tesla w your iphone.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 59 of 90
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,272member
    GM has always baffled me. They definitely have the technical chops, market presense, and loyal customer base to take on just about anyone, but they always seem to find a way to snatch defeat from the hands of victory and commit unforced errors all on their own. I've never worked for GM, but I've worked for companies that have a very close relationship with GM, so I have a little insight into the quality of their engineering teams, which I've always been very impressed with their teams and people when working directly with them.

    It baffles me why GM didn't simply and quietly pursue their infotainment and services subscription strategy while still maintaining close ties with Apple. They could retain Apple CarPlay as a customer selectable option even after they go live with their homegrown or Google-assisted solution. They've done similar things with other OEMs like Bose and Recaro. There was nothing to be gained by GM preemptively throwing Apple under the bus with a big announcement. Did Google goad them into doing this or did GM screw this up all on their own? 

    The bottom line is that GM will have to compete directly against Apple at some point. If they make it a zero sum game GM is going to lose some sales and some customers. On the other hand, if GM continued to make Apple CarPlay an option on their vehicles they may lose a few dollars on upgrades and subscriptions for customers who choose to go with the Apple option, but still retain those customers under the GM umbrella, which would still pay back over the long term as those still-loyal customers continue to funnel dollars into GM's money pot through GMs maintenance and service channels. 
    roundaboutnow
  • Reply 60 of 90
    alandailalandail Posts: 755member
    sflagel said:
    alandail said:
    sbdude said:
    Tesla can get away with it because no other manufacturer has the rabid (and often blind) fan base that Tesla does. One need only look at manufacturing defects, reliability and other objective measures as they relate to "satisfaction" ratings to determine that Tesla drivers often overlook the shortcomings simply because of their adulation for the brand. CarPlay is but one of the features you won't find in a Tesla compared to other brands: satellite radio, branded (premium) sound systems, a speedometer in front of the steering wheel, an external/internal refresh every 7 years or so.
    I went from Mercedes E Class with upgraded audio to Tesla Model 3 Performance. The Tesla Model 3 sound system absolutely blows away what I had in the Mercedes. Everyone who rides in my car is amazed at how good the sound system is.

    Maybe take the time to understand why Tesla absolutely blows away customer satisfaction surveys instead of assuming everyone who owns one is wrong.

    Going from the Mercedes to the Tesla was like going from a flip phone to an iPhone.

    We replaced our second Mercedes within 2 weeks because we both only wanted to drive the Tesla.

    And the longer we own them, the better they get though over the air software updates, just like our phones and computers.
    Maybe it was going from an ICE car to an electric car that blew you away, rather than Mercedes to Tesla? There are definitely excellent electric alternatives to Tesla now available (although I hear that the US struggles to build good alternative charging networks, which is not an issue in Europe). 
    Nope, it's everything else about the car that blows away the Mercedes. Again, it was like going from a flip phone to iPhone. I only had the car for a week and a software update gave me features that didn't exist when I bought the car. And that keeps happening. So many things the car does that no other car does, many of which come straight from customer suggestions.

    The whole thing is vertically integrated the way Apple does, including using custom designed chips. Tesla takes that all the way to manufacturing. Constantly iterating, improving, and simplifying, every aspect of the car at a rate no other company can match because they aren't vertically integrated. Most car companies don't even realize just how far behind they are.

    Every Apple fan would become a huge fan of Tesla if they try out the car.

    Car unlocks when I walk up to it with my phone, locks when I walk away
    It's already on when I sit down, it's turns off when I leave
    Has dog mode to keep the car comfortable for pets
    Has cabin overheat protection so car doesn't get too hot in the sun.
    Has sentry mode so if anyone damages the car when you're gone, you have footage
    Last year they added viewing the sentry mode cameras from your phone
    Seat, mirror, steering wheel, and many other settings are tied to your profile. So two different drivers have all of their settings set when they get in the car
    Profile is now stored in the cloud, so if you rent a Tesla, you get all of your settings.
    Constantly is recording the surroundings when you drive, so if you are in an accident, it has footage that can prove it's the other driver's fault
    Are the safest cars ever built
    - least likely to get injured in an accident. The 4 Tesla models are the 4 safest cars ever tested. They relentlessly improve the design to improve this here.
    - least likely to have an accident. And they keep improving this.
    The fleet is all connected, so Tesla has more safety data than anyone, they analyze this data to improve their AI to prevent more accidents and to improve their pre-crash behavior when an accident is unavoidable.
    Tesla insurance (in Ohio), cut my insurance bill by 75%.
    Summon to pull car out of a tight parking spot. Our garage is tight, we use it to park and unpark our cars.

    The list goes on and on, some of these existed when I bought the car in 2019, others have been added since then.

    And on top of that, Autopilot and FSD have gotten massively better since then. And keep improving. Car does over 95% of my driving now. recognizes and adjusts for speed limit changes so I don't get a ticket, recognizes and responds to traffic lights, stop signs, navigation automatically reroutes if there is a traffic jam ahead and rerouting saves times, and with FSD, it does all of the driving to handle the reroute.

    I live in Ohio, but drive to Florida a couple times/year. The fastest way there is back roads for the first hour. I hate going that way so take the highway/interstate. Takes longer, but easier driving. I changed the last trip, just as easy to let the car drive the back roads as it is to let it drive the highways. 3400 mile, month long trip, I drove 100 miles. We go again in the fall, I suspect the percentage the car drives doubles for that trip.

    No other car company does all of that. Being an EV has little do with it. Competition has no idea how far behind they are. And most people really have no idea how far ahead Tesla is.

    Flip Phone vs iPhone
    Command Line vs Macintosh
    Mercedes vs Tesla

    I lived through all 3 transitions, Feeling was the same with all 3 transitions.

    I had a flip phone I barely used, I'm never without my iPhone
    I've gone on many trips where in the past I would have flown, I let my car drive me instead. I would have never taken that 3400 mile road trip if I still had the Mercedes.
    williamlondon
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