Rumored Mac Studio trade-in points to possible refresh during WWDC

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 72
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,808member
    timmillea said:
    The Mac Studio is a design monstrosity and should never have been produced by Apple. I agree that it was probably an interim product before the Apple Silicon Mac Pro could be released. Even so, it was a terrible mistake, tarnishing the design credentials of a design-focussed brand. 

    A 15" MacBook Air, if true, would be a further dilution of the brand. The MBA is a small and light laptop that fits in an envelope. 

    Since Sir Jony Ive left, Apple appears to have lost its way.

    There is a momentum from previous successes but any more crap from Apple will start to impact. 
    There is and will ever be only one Jony Ive. 

    Why Cook didn’t do more to keep him, I’ll never know. Outside of jobs, Ive was THE soul of Apple. 

    It’s definitely a different Apple now and not for the better. But… Jobs and Ive were so amazing, influential and competent at passing down their ethos that Apple is still and will continue to be far and away ahead of everyone else. Just wish it had the same level of care. 
    IMO, he also hurt Apple with his stupid designs. He always put form over function and only seemed to really care about what it looked like. Today's Macs are so much better than in the Jony Ive era. His obsession with thinness was just stupid and created products that didn't function to their potential because of it. And the stupid little things like the chamfered edges that only looked good until you started to use it and then it was completely scratched up and looked like shit (also increased the production cost), or designing a Bluetooth mouse with the charging port on the bottom just so you didn't see the port which made it so you can't use it while charging. Or, making a laptop so thin that it created cooling issues and was also so thin regular ports no longer fit into the design and they had to design a keyboard that apparently nobody liked, even after a couple revisions. This along with many others just made Apple release products that didn't live up to their full potential. 
    muthuk_vanalingamunbeliever2williamlondonRudeBoyRudy9secondkox2
  • Reply 42 of 72
    CheeseFreezeCheeseFreeze Posts: 1,249member
    The iMac M1 is beautiful. The Mac Studio is not. I hope they’ll redesign this product or phase it out in favor of a Mac Pro.
    williamlondon9secondkox2danox
  • Reply 43 of 72
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,808member
    The iMac M1 is beautiful. The Mac Studio is not. I hope they’ll redesign this product or phase it out in favor of a Mac Pro.
    The Mac Studio is not a Mac Pro replacement, or even an interim product. I don't understand why people keep thinking this. It's more of an iMac Pro replacement, not for the Mac Pro. I bet it will still remain in Apple's lineup even after the Apple Silicon Mac Pro arrives. Also, I seriously doubt people who need something like a Mac Studio are deciding not to buy it because they don't think it looks good. At the end of the day they need a Mac to do their work and if this will do it more efficiently than what they have now they're gonna buy it anyways. 
    edited May 2023 williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingamRudeBoyRudywatto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 44 of 72
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,716member
    Reading these comments I am surprised by some of the comments. 

    That Apple is worse without Jonny Ive??? 

    That the iMac is “win in every way”

    In recent years, 5-10 or so. Jonny Ive had clearly taken things too far. Often making compromises on machines for design that simply made the machine worse at doing what it was meant to do. 

    The 2016 to 2020 MacBook Pros to mention just one line that was hampered during this period. 

    Since he has gone Apple have been releasing really good machines. MacBook Pro’s, M2 MacBook Air etc

    Apple are in a far better place now than they were then.

    As for the iMac being everything better than a Studio. Hard disagree on nearly every level except the visual appearance. Loud, noisy, clogged with dust. Screen issues over time the list goes on. 

    Choice is a good thing. I’m hoping we see an incremental update to the Studio to take the M2 line of chips. Would be lovely if the Studio Display could be tweaked but I can’t see that happening. If we get a larger iMac again with M series chips I think that’s a good thing. Certainly the M1 versions need an update now.  

    Keep updating Apple. Long gone are the stagnant later years of Jonny Ive. 
    Hate like this is the strangest thing. I’ve was t stagnant. He was iconic. What he did was create products so epic, that messing with the design just for the sake of change would be a step backward. You say he was stagnant, yet current apple has either not changed his designs at all, or copied his older stuff. 

    The new iMac is a rip off Ive’s Pro Display design, made thinner and smaller. In fact, take the iMac from the front and outside of a different snd polarizing bezel color, it’s nearly indistinguishable from the previous models. In fact, the color of the bezel is… a throwback to Ive’s first iMac. 

    Then, take the MacBook Pro and Air - they look like… Ive’s PowerBooks. 

    The IPad? Same old. 

    iPhone? You guessed it. Same. 

    Watch? LOL. EVEN WITH A “new”” watch ui, looks like it’s just the iPhone grid. 

    You insinuate the Mac Studio is a new, non-stagnant product? When it’s just a stretch Mac mini that’s finally been given horsepower? Like a said previous, the studio is fine. It is the powerful Mac mini we’ve been asking for (with the price we haven’t). 

    But it’s not really new. It’s a modded Mac mini (also Ive’s design) with some holes drilled in the front. 

    I don’t know where you get the imac criticism unless you’re talking about imacs from 15+ years ago. My work and home imac 5ks were and are flawless, outside of not being compatible with the latest OS. And if you actually read my post, it was a thoughtful breakdown 

    you mention a screen issue, but we can’t really compare since the studio display hasn’t been out long and doesn’t reflect on the Mac Studio anyway. Meanwhile the Mac studios have had widespread reports of fan issues. So man made computers aren’t perfect no matter who designs them. Besides, I’ve didn’t make the screen, etc. so you can’t throw that st the man. Be genuine. You mention fan noise, but that was the Intel era dude! Ive’s iMacs would be pretty dang quiet with Apple Silicon. 

    It’s always easy to learn from a mistake. And the apple hardware engineering team have learned some from their failures from 2015-2020. Ive’s vision for that time was fantastic. The fact that it didn’t pan out had to do with Apple engineering limitations. The Apple board could have commissioned redesigns if they wanted. They didn’t. Again not all on Ive. 

    YOU BLAME Ive for taking things too far as if the entire Apple board wasn’t pushing those things. The butterfly keyboard was a product of the hardware team. The touchbar mbps were hampered by Intel failing to honor its promise, and compares to the Mac Studio m1 ultra being hampered by a memory bottleneck - also no fault of Ive. That was on Srouji. 

    I’ve is human. He is bound to miss at times, but his got to miss ratio is unmatched. And his hits aren’t just base hits. They’re grand slams. I’ve aimed higher than high. He aimed so high, that he challenged Apple to INVENT around his vision. And they did. And most of the time, it came together spectacularly. 

    I’ve took risks as leaders, pioneers, and legends do. That’s how you change the world. Current Apple is playing it too safe, not really changing any formulas, staying within the lines, and iterating on Ive’s previous successes. That, my friend, is stagnant. Apple has been doing a whole lot of base hitting (if that) since I’ve departed. Ive’s designs rocked industries. Nothing Apple has done since resembles that. We will see how the AR/VR thing goes (and even that, like Apple Silicon, had started development under Ive’s tenure) Hopefully it can recapture some of that Ive magic. 

    So let’s not pretend Apple is somehow better off without it’s one of a kind, iconic visionary designer who continuously to Apple to new heights. It’s not. But it’s not in bad shape either. I’ve passed down his ethos and displine and as much heart and care as other humans could receive. 

    Let’s also not pretend that I’ve was somehow some kind of failure due to a faulty keyboard that wasn’t engineered just right by Mansfield/Rocco or touchbar that was not developed further by Federighi. The man was a success beyond measure. He’s earned his accolades, not whatever this is. He’s a legend. 

    As I stated earlier, though Apple is undoubtedly lessened by Ive’s absence, they are not anything less than great as is. Apple today is far and away the easer in tech and software design and engineering. And Apple has much to thank Ive for in building that sustainable foundation. 




    danoxwatto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 45 of 72
    waveparticlewaveparticle Posts: 1,497member
    tht said:
    tht said:
    Will Apple have an answer to the nVidia juggernaut?
    Obviously no. They are not in the business of providing dGPUs for gaming, workstation, or server markets. They aren't in the business of maximizing GPU performance at all costs, only constrained by residential and office electric circuits. The server GPU requirements? Sheesh, those server boxes with 4 GPUs must need 220V 30A circuits going into them. That's what I use to run my dryer, oven or my car.

    The Mac Studio, and Mac Pro if it ever is released, are mid-end media production machines, for Youtubers, or smaller media production uses. They are going to have a minimalistic power consumption for a GPU, like 120 W in the Studio and maybe 250 W in a Mac Pro. If they match the performance of 250 to 350 W dGPUs, it's a big win for what they are trying to do. Sell a small or quiet and cool machine to prosumer content creation users. I think that is their goal, and it's not to enter new markets with these boxes, unless creation tools for the XR goggles gives them a new Mac market.

    Mid-range dGPUs from AMD and Nvidia basically start at 250 W, and the high end ones are at 350 to 450 W. My 15yo wants a new dGPU. I am thinking I will turn it into a ducting project for him too.
    You need to watch Nvidia CEO Jason Huang commencement speech at National Taiwan University. He is predicting PCs will be replaced by AI powered computers. Apple may be missing the boat if it fails to take action. 
    Don't understand what you are saying. The mundane interpretation is that PCs running Microsoft Windows will have a lot of machine learning powered features, and Nvidia hardware in those PCs will be power them. That doesn't sound like a differentiator. PCs running Apple operating systems will also have a lot of machine learning powered features, and Apple's hardware will power them. Have to be more specific about what "AI features" that only Nvidia can provide and others can't.

    A more fanciful interpretation is that the server + thin clients will become a thing again, and there will be a lot machine learning power features powered by Nvidia's hardware, everyone's stuff will be in the cloud, the primary interface will be through browsers (with audio etc), and that's how everyone will use computers. Nvidia hardware is powering everything on the server side. Apple will be fine with this too. They sell a lot of high priced thin clients with their phones, tablets, and PCs.
    The primary differentiator will be speed. Nadia powered PC will be much much faster running some AI tasks. For example, it will recognize picture faster. Yes, you can let some server do it. But some times it will be more desirable let the desktop computer do it. For example, you may not like to let a server see the picture. 
    https://www.ft.com/content/5bfcc670-7fcf-4ffd-92ae-cd7b7948405f

    Nvidia chief Jensen Huang says AI is creating a ‘new computing era’

    edited May 2023 elijahg
  • Reply 46 of 72
    thttht Posts: 5,444member
    timmillea said:
    A 15" MacBook Air, if true, would be a further dilution of the brand. The MBA is a small and light laptop that fits in an envelope. 
    There are manilla envelopes that fit 17" laptops.  :wink: 
     
    The first model MBA that Jobs pulled out of an envelope was 0.16-0.76" H x 12.74" W x 8.9" D. The M2 MBA13 is 0.44" H x 11.97" W x 8.46" D. The MBP14 is 0.61" H x 12.31" W x 8.71" D. The MBP15 is 0.61" H x 13.75" W x 9.48" D.

    An MBA15 is rumored to have about a 1.5" longer diagonal display. That adds 1.3" to the width and 0.8" to the depth. Assuming it is the same thickness, it could be 0.44" H x 13.4" W x 9.3" D. So smaller in footprint than the old MBP15 models, and 30% thinner. It's definitely going to fit the "Air" branding.

    Best case scenario is the M1 MBA is retired, and the M2 MBA drops down to $1000 and this MBP15 hits a $1500 price point. I guess the MBP13 remains in the lineup at $1300? It really should just be retired.
    watto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 47 of 72
    thttht Posts: 5,444member
    tht said:
    tht said:
    Will Apple have an answer to the nVidia juggernaut?
    Obviously no. They are not in the business of providing dGPUs for gaming, workstation, or server markets. They aren't in the business of maximizing GPU performance at all costs, only constrained by residential and office electric circuits. The server GPU requirements? Sheesh, those server boxes with 4 GPUs must need 220V 30A circuits going into them. That's what I use to run my dryer, oven or my car.

    The Mac Studio, and Mac Pro if it ever is released, are mid-end media production machines, for Youtubers, or smaller media production uses. They are going to have a minimalistic power consumption for a GPU, like 120 W in the Studio and maybe 250 W in a Mac Pro. If they match the performance of 250 to 350 W dGPUs, it's a big win for what they are trying to do. Sell a small or quiet and cool machine to prosumer content creation users. I think that is their goal, and it's not to enter new markets with these boxes, unless creation tools for the XR goggles gives them a new Mac market.

    Mid-range dGPUs from AMD and Nvidia basically start at 250 W, and the high end ones are at 350 to 450 W. My 15yo wants a new dGPU. I am thinking I will turn it into a ducting project for him too.
    You need to watch Nvidia CEO Jason Huang commencement speech at National Taiwan University. He is predicting PCs will be replaced by AI powered computers. Apple may be missing the boat if it fails to take action. 
    Don't understand what you are saying. The mundane interpretation is that PCs running Microsoft Windows will have a lot of machine learning powered features, and Nvidia hardware in those PCs will be power them. That doesn't sound like a differentiator. PCs running Apple operating systems will also have a lot of machine learning powered features, and Apple's hardware will power them. Have to be more specific about what "AI features" that only Nvidia can provide and others can't.

    A more fanciful interpretation is that the server + thin clients will become a thing again, and there will be a lot machine learning power features powered by Nvidia's hardware, everyone's stuff will be in the cloud, the primary interface will be through browsers (with audio etc), and that's how everyone will use computers. Nvidia hardware is powering everything on the server side. Apple will be fine with this too. They sell a lot of high priced thin clients with their phones, tablets, and PCs.
    The primary differentiator will be speed. Nadia powered PC will be much much faster running some AI tasks. For example, it will recognize picture faster. Yes, you can let some server do it. But some times it will be more desirable let the desktop computer do it. For example, you may not like to let a server see the picture. 
    https://www.ft.com/content/5bfcc670-7fcf-4ffd-92ae-cd7b7948405f

    Nvidia chief Jensen Huang says AI is creating a ‘new computing era’

    The article is paywalled or requires an account. Need more detail on what recognizing pictures faster means. Our phones can recognize pictures, we can search for objects inside pictures, so on and so forth.
    watto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 48 of 72
    ShmoeShmoe Posts: 1member
    timmillea said:
    The Mac Studio is a design monstrosity and should never have been produced by Apple. I agree that it was probably an interim product before the Apple Silicon Mac Pro could be released. Even so, it was a terrible mistake, tarnishing the design credentials of a design-focussed brand. 

    A 15" MacBook Air, if true, would be a further dilution of the brand. The MBA is a small and light laptop that fits in an envelope. 

    Since Sir Jony Ive left, Apple appears to have lost its way.

    There is a momentum from previous successes but any more crap from Apple will start to impact. 

    While this may be true.. it's a mac mini with a giant forehead, it is quite literally simultaneously the best Mac I've ever owned. Hands down.
    watto_cobra9secondkox2Alex_V
  • Reply 49 of 72
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,856member
    If it involves Nvidia, AMD and Intel, one thing is for sure, the wattage, and the ability to unplug it from a wall or a remote server will be out of the question. If that’s making progress, I think Apple is on the right trail, speed, power, security, and efficiency at low wattage, combined with a competent operating system.

    Maybe Apple should change neural (engine) to AI instead, voilà a new buzzword, now you are a part of the tech in crowd….
    edited May 2023 watto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 50 of 72
    waveparticlewaveparticle Posts: 1,497member
    Performance of Mac Studio is at comparable level as MacBook Pro. Apple need to create a new category of desktop computer much more powerful than MacBook Pro. Power is not a problem for desktop computer. In the meantime MacOS should get a big upgrade to accommodate. 
    edited May 2023 9secondkox2
  • Reply 51 of 72
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,808member
    Performance of Mac Studio is at comparable level as MacBook Pro. Apple need to create a new category of desktop computer much more powerful than MacBook Pro. Power is not a problem for desktop computer. In the meantime MacOS should get a big upgrade to accommodate. 
    That may be true, however the Mac Studio can sustain that performance pretty much indefinitely unlike the MacBook Pro which would start to overheat and throttle after a few minutes. The Mac Studio was also held back by the issues with the M1 scaling issues (I believe it has buffering issues so it processes faster than data can be pushed to it). There's no reason why an M1 Ultra doesn't double the performance of the M1 Max. 
    watto_cobra9secondkox2
  • Reply 52 of 72
    Hate like this is the strangest thing. I’ve was t stagnant. He was iconic. What he did was create products so epic, that messing with the design just for the sake of change would be a step backward. You say he was stagnant, yet current apple has either not changed his designs at all, or copied his older stuff. 

    The new iMac is a rip off Ive’s Pro Display design, made thinner and smaller. In fact, take the iMac from the front and outside of a different snd polarizing bezel color, it’s nearly indistinguishable from the previous models. In fact, the color of the bezel is… a throwback to Ive’s first iMac. 

    .... 

    YOU BLAME Ive for taking things too far as if the entire Apple board wasn’t pushing those things.

    As I stated earlier, though Apple is undoubtedly lessened by Ive’s absence, they are not anything less than great as is. Apple today is far and away the easer in tech and software design and engineering. And Apple has much to thank Ive for in building that sustainable foundation. 




    I've trimmed down the quoting for others.

    I didn't say hate - not sure where that came from.

    While Ive did some great things he was undeniably stagnant in the last years and by his own comments clearly not interested in the role anymore.

    Yes lots of the products are evolutions of his designs, that is to be expected. But they are evolving to be far more useful than they were before. MacBook Pro 14 and 16 lines as an example.

    I do think he took things too far, restricting the usefulness of the devices too far for aesthetics. If you read accounts from inside Apple that is not an unvoiced opinion.

    Clearly you are a big fan of his as am I. We differ however as I think Apple are now better off without him




    9secondkox2Alex1Nmuthuk_vanalingammarc gwilliamlondon
  • Reply 53 of 72
    waveparticlewaveparticle Posts: 1,497member
    Hate like this is the strangest thing. I’ve was t stagnant. He was iconic. What he did was create products so epic, that messing with the design just for the sake of change would be a step backward. You say he was stagnant, yet current apple has either not changed his designs at all, or copied his older stuff. 

    The new iMac is a rip off Ive’s Pro Display design, made thinner and smaller. In fact, take the iMac from the front and outside of a different snd polarizing bezel color, it’s nearly indistinguishable from the previous models. In fact, the color of the bezel is… a throwback to Ive’s first iMac. 

    .... 

    YOU BLAME Ive for taking things too far as if the entire Apple board wasn’t pushing those things.

    As I stated earlier, though Apple is undoubtedly lessened by Ive’s absence, they are not anything less than great as is. Apple today is far and away the easer in tech and software design and engineering. And Apple has much to thank Ive for in building that sustainable foundation. 




    I've trimmed down the quoting for others.

    I didn't say hate - not sure where that came from.

    While Ive did some great things he was undeniably stagnant in the last years and by his own comments clearly not interested in the role anymore.

    Yes lots of the products are evolutions of his designs, that is to be expected. But they are evolving to be far more useful than they were before. MacBook Pro 14 and 16 lines as an example.

    I do think he took things too far, restricting the usefulness of the devices too far for aesthetics. If you read accounts from inside Apple that is not an unvoiced opinion.

    Clearly you are a big fan of his as am I. We differ however as I think Apple are now better off without him




    My take in this debate is Ive worked closely with Jobs as a team. When Jobs was gone, he cannot performance as good as before. 
    9secondkox2Alex1Nmarc gwilliamlondon
  • Reply 54 of 72
    marc gmarc g Posts: 65member
    timmillea said:
    The Mac Studio is a design monstrosity and should never have been produced by Apple. I agree that it was probably an interim product before the Apple Silicon Mac Pro could be released. Even so, it was a terrible mistake, tarnishing the design credentials of a design-focussed brand. 

    A 15" MacBook Air, if true, would be a further dilution of the brand. The MBA is a small and light laptop that fits in an envelope. 

    Since Sir Jony Ive left, Apple appears to have lost its way.

    There is a momentum from previous successes but any more crap from Apple will start to impact. 
    There is and will ever be only one Jony Ive. 

    Why Cook didn’t do more to keep him, I’ll never know. Outside of jobs, Ive was THE soul of Apple. 

    It’s definitely a different Apple now and not for the better. But… Jobs and Ive were so amazing, influential and competent at passing down their ethos that Apple is still and will continue to be far and away ahead of everyone else. Just wish it had the same level of care. 
    All due respect to Sir Jony, he checked out years before he actually left. Without Steve Jobs to talk him down from extreme minimalist, we got many things with issues. From terrible butterfly keyboards, to hockey puck mice, to buttonless mice, to mice that can’t be used and charged at the same time due to the port on the bottom, not everything he did was great. I say this as someone who’s used macs for more than 30 years, and supported Mac users for much of that time. I’ve seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. There was nothing Tim could have offered him to keep him onboard. Sir Jony’s influence will be felt for years to come but things needed to change. 
    RudeBoyRudymacxpress9secondkox2Alex1Nmuthuk_vanalingamwilliamlondon
  • Reply 55 of 72
    mikeincamikeinca Posts: 20member
    Why Cook didn’t do more to keep him, I’ll never know. Outside of jobs, Ive was THE soul of Apple. 

    It’s definitely a different Apple now and not for the better. But… Jobs and Ive were so amazing, influential and competent at passing down their ethos that Apple is still and will continue to be far and away ahead of everyone else. Just wish it had the same level of care. 
    Couldn’t disagree more.  All of Ives products were crippled, and some horribly so.  And many were ugly.  Apples lineup is now the best it’s ever been, design included.  
    edited May 2023 sedicivalvoleRudeBoyRudymuthuk_vanalingamwilliamlondon
  • Reply 56 of 72
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,716member
    sedicivalvole said:

    I didn't say hate - not sure where that came from.

    While Ive did some great things he was undeniably stagnant in the last years and by his own comments clearly not interested in the role anymore.

    Yes lots of the products are evolutions of his designs, that is to be expected. But they are evolving to be far more useful than they were before. MacBook Pro 14 and 16 lines as an example.

    I do think he took things too far, restricting the usefulness of the devices too far for aesthetics. If you read accounts from inside Apple that is not an unvoiced opinion.

    Clearly you are a big fan of his as am I. We differ however as I think Apple are now better off without him. 

    It’s not how you label it. It’s what you do. Evolution of product is normal. I’ve pushed to upgrade the Mac lineup and a product didn’t quite live up to it due the failures of multiple teams at Apple as well as partner Intel who couldn’t deliver on their promise. The reason the MacBook Pro was thin was because Apple expected certain tech from Intel. They designed for it and then had to make do. I’ve would certainly learn from this and not make that move twice.  It’s a no-brainer that his understudy went back to previous Ive designs for the next model. Of course they had the benefit of apple silicon as well. 


    You berate. Legend for failings that aren’t really even his. And you minimize his accomplishments. Without Ive, there would likely be no Apple. At the very least it wouldn’t be the iconic brand it is today. 


    The man had hit after hit after hit after hit like no one else and you want to harp on the exceedingly rare miss. That’s ridiculous. And he wasn’t stagnant. Apple itself was in a transition toward launching Apple Silicon, etc and wasn’t about to blow a design revolution on old Intel chips. Jony didn’t say he wasn’t inspired etc. he didn’t like the way Apple was changing. His work style was being heavily impacted by Cook’s changes and it took the fun out of it for him. Apparently it was too much for his successor as well, which is another loss as she was fantastic. 


    Jony Ive is a legend that deserves to be honored, not blasted for the rare miss in an incredible run of successes. Most designers don’t even get one iconic, revolutionary design in their lifetimes. Ive had many. And Apple benefitted greatly from his work. 


    Current Apple is a bit of a mess in the product line. Can’t wait for the transition stuff to settle and Apple can get back to refining the lineup, making iconic computers, and. Saying no a thousand times to get that truly great yes. 

    edited May 2023 watto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 57 of 72
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,716member
    Hate like this is the strangest thing. I’ve was t stagnant. He was iconic. What he did was create products so epic, that messing with the design just for the sake of change would be a step backward. You say he was stagnant, yet current apple has either not changed his designs at all, or copied his older stuff. 

    The new iMac is a rip off Ive’s Pro Display design, made thinner and smaller. In fact, take the iMac from the front and outside of a different snd polarizing bezel color, it’s nearly indistinguishable from the previous models. In fact, the color of the bezel is… a throwback to Ive’s first iMac. 

    .... 

    YOU BLAME Ive for taking things too far as if the entire Apple board wasn’t pushing those things.

    As I stated earlier, though Apple is undoubtedly lessened by Ive’s absence, they are not anything less than great as is. Apple today is far and away the easer in tech and software design and engineering. And Apple has much to thank Ive for in building that sustainable foundation. 




    I've trimmed down the quoting for others.

    I didn't say hate - not sure where that came from.

    While Ive did some great things he was undeniably stagnant in the last years and by his own comments clearly not interested in the role anymore.

    Yes lots of the products are evolutions of his designs, that is to be expected. But they are evolving to be far more useful than they were before. MacBook Pro 14 and 16 lines as an example.

    I do think he took things too far, restricting the usefulness of the devices too far for aesthetics. If you read accounts from inside Apple that is not an unvoiced opinion.

    Clearly you are a big fan of his as am I. We differ however as I think Apple are now better off without him




    My take in this debate is Ive worked closely with Jobs as a team. When Jobs was gone, he cannot performance as good as before. 
    Yet he did. However, the work style changes Cook implemented three him off and he didn’t enjoy it as much anymore. To do what he did, you have to love what you do and believe through and through in it. With Jobs, people felt they were changing the world. It was more of a calling than a job. Nowadays, it’s more of a corporate feel. 
    Alex1Nelijahg
  • Reply 58 of 72
    marc gmarc g Posts: 65member
    danox said:
    charlesn said:
    The large iMac can do everything a Mac Studio can do, only with less of s footprint, less of a hassle, and look better doing it. 

    It’s a win in every way. The only hurdle is that it’s s better DEAL than the Mac Studio, since it will be harder for Apple to hide the price gouging. 

    So you're thinking that Tim called a meeting and it went something like this: "I've been looking at sales of the iMac Pro 27" and they're off-the-charts. An incredibly successful product for us. We're making inroads with creatives in corporations that haven't bought from us in this kind of volume before. SO... let's kill it. We really can't price gouge on this the way we'd like, so let's EOL the iMac Pro and move on to a much more expensive 2-piece system that delivers the profit we want."

    You really think that's Apple's calculation? Please. I don't know if the iMac Pro or even an iMac 27" is ever coming back. I tend to think not given that we don't even hear rumors of it. And if the iMac Pro doesn't come back in some form, I have no doubt that a lack of sufficient sales of its previous iteration is the reason. Yes, there will be people clamoring for a new pro-performance, bigger screen all-in-one... just not enough of them. People also seem to forget that the current M-driven iMac 24" is already a very powerful machine--this wasn't just a speed bump of an Intel chip--and will only get more so as the M-chip evolves. Personally, I had been an iMac 27" buyer from the day it was first available and I had real concerns when I switched to the 24" that it would feel cramped. Well, that thought has never crossed my mind once in the two years that I've owned it. 

    Monitor-tech evolves much more slowly than computer-tech, giving monitors a much longer useful lifespan before becoming outdated. Clearly, for large volumes of buyers. a monitor/computer set-up makes more sense. Keep the monitor and upgrade your computer as necessary. (And I say that as someone who has always preferred an all-in-one.) Apple could have killed off the Mac Mini, and many people thought they would... instead, they gave it a top-to-bottom rebuild in its last iteration, and you don't make that kind of investment in a product that's not selling. More to be revealed about Apple's commitment to the Mac Studio future at WWDC.  



    The death of the butterfly keyboard, MagSafe coming back, and the drop in Mac sales says otherwise, Apple will need to do something to address the drop in Mac desktop sales.

    The mini Studio is a slap in the face to those who bought 27 inch iMac’s, hopefully they will rectify that at WWDC and they need to, or Mac desktop sales will remain stagnant through the end of 2023, and since they can’t seem to get the Pro Mac out the door, it’s now come down to one or the other, a new Pro Mac or a new big screen iMac before the end of the year.
    Let’s all keep in mind, the fact that WWDC is not a hardware conference. It’s a software conference that occasionally shows off and sometimes releases hardware. The other thing in response to comments above that talk about how, for example, this M1 24 inch iMac is certainly better than that M1 MacBook Air. That’s not the case. All of the macs that use the first M1 processor are literally exactly the same in their performance since they all use exactly the same SOC. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 59 of 72
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,856member
    Whoops? What is this? Hopefully Apple, might consider a different type of enclosure, something not so easily duplicated?

    https://www.theverge.com/23728549/logitech-logi-dock-review-conference-laptop-docking-station
    edited May 2023
  • Reply 60 of 72
    nubusnubus Posts: 383member
    charlesn said:
    I have to laugh at the references to the Mac Studio as a "stopgap product." The R&D for an all-new product like the Mac Studio likely started at least a few and more likely several years before it hit the market. 

    It is a stopgap product in the sense that Apple realized a Mac Pro couldn't be shipped within the transition period. iMac Pro was another such stopgap product. Studio is a very nice computer - a modern IIci/cx, Quadra 700 or PowerMac 4400 - power you can afford. Due to the decline of desktops the Studio is populating a very small segment of the market. With the mini now being offered with M2 Pro there isn't much space left for several Studio configurations unless Apple makes it more interesting.
    9secondkox2Alex1Nmuthuk_vanalingamwilliamlondon
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