Apple Vision Pro could help surgeons see vital data during operations

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in Apple Vision Pro

The Apple Vision Pro may be beneficial in medicine, a surgeon suggests, with the mixed-reality headset potentially helping by providing vital data during surgery.

Apple Vision Pro
Apple Vision Pro



Apple's introduction of the Apple Vision Pro could be a boon to productivity in the workplace, but in one case, it could be a lifesaver. In the opinion of one surgeon, it could give "superpowers" to doctors.

Dr. Rafael Grossmann, a general surgeon with a background in robotic surgery and the first to live-stream a surgery using Google Glass, thinks the Apple Vision Pro could do a lot to help in the middle of an operation when information is key to a patient's survival.

"Within the operating room, you are gathering data in mixed reality that is helping you in real time, in a synchronous fashion, do the procedure," Grossmann explained to WMTV8 about current mixed-reality technology he is currently using.

The tech "allows you to not have to turn your head where you can actually bring the computer," he adds. Using spatial computing, the displays could feasibly be anywhere in the room, and in the case of surgery, potentially within the wearer's eye line.

Beyond operations, Grossmann proposes that Apple's headset could be employed in other ways, such as to provide more connection between doctor and patient. For example, a digital assistant could be shown to the physician to handle basic tasks like note-taking, or to offer up information from patient records.

Read on AppleInsider

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 43
    eriamjheriamjh Posts: 1,733member
    I don’t remember Apple demonstrating any static images aka heads-up display but there’s nothing that says anyone couldn’t implement fixed floating data or combine the two.  How about blink to zoom?  Voice commands for enahncing or switching viewing modes.  IR cameras?   UV cameras? 

    I’d be concerned that the goggles are unable to show enough detail for critical surgery as some doctors wear magnifying goggles for delicate operations.  Someone will look into it.  It could be a great tool.  

    If  hospitals buy tens of thousands of them, bring it.   AAPL will benefit and so will I.   
    MacProtmaywatto_cobragregoriusmbaconstangbyronl
  • Reply 2 of 43
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,822member
    This is one of so many possible uses for the Vision Pro.  It and its siblings will be a success, I am sure.  I have noticed numerous testers commenting that the stereo camera is something they would never use 'to film their daughter's birthday party' etc.  I fail to see why it isn't evident that the iPhone could be planned to sport a stereoscopic camera system in the next year or so as an alternative 3D camera.  If I am correct, sales of such an iPhone would soar.  Even without a viewer at the time, future-proofing videos in 3D will become a must.  Then the Apple Vision Air will follow soon after that at a lower price with fewer features, and history will repeat itself, Apple will have another multi-billion-dollar leg to its ecosystem.
    tmaywatto_cobraradarthekatgregoriusmbaconstangAnilu_777byronl
  • Reply 3 of 43
    No hospital is going to rely on an Apple consumer product for a safety critical task such as surgery.
    williamlondonravnorodom
  • Reply 4 of 43
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,822member
    No hospital is going to rely on an Apple consumer product for a safety critical task such as surgery.

    While surgery may not be an area in the near future, it is worth noting Apple technology is increasingly being used in hospitals and by doctors. Some of the ways that Apple technology is being used in healthcare include:

    • Accessing patient health records: Apple devices can be used to access patient health records from electronic health records (EHRs) and other sources. This allows doctors and nurses to have quick and easy access to the latest information about their patients, which can help them to provide better care.
    • Monitoring patient vital signs: Apple devices can be used to monitor patient vital signs, such as heart rate, blood oxygen level, and sleep patterns. This data can be used to track patient progress and identify potential problems early on.
    • Providing educational resources: Apple devices can be used to provide educational resources to patients and their families. This can include information about different medical conditions, treatment options, and self-care tips.
    • Communicating with patients: Apple devices can be used to communicate with patients, either directly or through secure messaging apps. This allows doctors and nurses to stay in touch with their patients between appointments and provide support when needed.

    Apple is also working with the medical community to develop new ways to use its technology in healthcare. For example, the company is working on a project to use Apple Watch to help people with diabetes manage their condition.

    Overall, Apple technology is having a positive impact on healthcare. It is helping to make care more efficient, personalized, and accessible. As Apple continues to develop its healthcare products and services, it is likely that we will see even more innovative ways to use this technology in the future.

    edited June 2023 williamlondon2morrowwatto_cobragregoriusmbaconstang
  • Reply 5 of 43
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 3,134member
    There is no doubt that vision augmenting devices will have applications like this, and VP certain provides a glimpse (!) into what is possible. But...one particular challenge of doing what is suggested here (surgery) with the VP is how to get the device sterilized before use. I kinda think it wouldn't survive an autoclave. mikethemartian said:
    No hospital is going to rely on an Apple consumer product for a safety critical task such as surgery.
    I'm not sure I'd be so fast to conclude this, as there are lots of consumer products in hospitals performing critical tasks. Still, the FDA might have a few things to say about this, as well as medical and ethics boards.
    lolliverwatto_cobragregoriusmtmay
  • Reply 6 of 43
    netroxnetrox Posts: 1,482member
    More and more surgeries rely on robots instead of humans to be more accurate and precise. I am not aware of Apple Vision Pro being capable of zooming in and how it coordinates with fine motor skills of surgeons. 


  • Reply 7 of 43
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 3,226member
    MacPro said:
    No hospital is going to rely on an Apple consumer product for a safety critical task such as surgery.

    While surgery may not be an area in the near future, it is worth noting Apple technology is increasingly being used in hospitals and by doctors. Some of the ways that Apple technology is being used in healthcare include:

    • Accessing patient health records: Apple devices can be used to access patient health records from electronic health records (EHRs) and other sources. This allows doctors and nurses to have quick and easy access to the latest information about their patients, which can help them to provide better care.
    • Monitoring patient vital signs: Apple devices can be used to monitor patient vital signs, such as heart rate, blood oxygen level, and sleep patterns. This data can be used to track patient progress and identify potential problems early on.
    • Providing educational resources: Apple devices can be used to provide educational resources to patients and their families. This can include information about different medical conditions, treatment options, and self-care tips.
    • Communicating with patients: Apple devices can be used to communicate with patients, either directly or through secure messaging apps. This allows doctors and nurses to stay in touch with their patients between appointments and provide support when needed.
    And the lead surgeon's playlist playing in the OR on their iPod/iPhone.
    gregoriusm
  • Reply 8 of 43
    larryjwlarryjw Posts: 1,036member
    I know neurosurgeons who perform robotic surgery. One of them is my doctor. Quite complex. The equipment they use contain cameras that peer into the brain, eye pieces that enlarge the camera images, robotic arms that hold and manipulate the scalpels, foot pedals and a mouth pieces controlling different aspects of the robotic assembly. 

    I had no idea until my doctor and other of his colleagues gave lectures with surgical videos to a broad audience of patients and families of patients. 

    Can the Vision Pro support such activities? I'll let the medical technologists make that decision. It's certainly not beyond the possibility. 
    williamlondonhcrefugeewatto_cobraradarthekatgregoriusmcg27
  • Reply 9 of 43
    No hospital is going to rely on an Apple consumer product for a safety critical task such as surgery.
    They wouldn't be "relying" on it per se, they'd be using it as an optional tool to help out in certain situations. If anything whatsoever were to go wrong or feel off about it, they can have a nurse pull the goggles off within 2 seconds and continue on "old school". 

    I think before these make it to live surgery however, they will be MUCH more useful in training scenarios for surgeons.
    williamlondonhcrefugeewatto_cobragregoriusmbaconstang
  • Reply 10 of 43
    dtoubdtoub Posts: 21member
    Actual gynecologic surgeon here; I have no doubt something like this might be useful to virtually train to do surgical procedures. But the headline makes it sound like this would provide “lifesaving” technology and I think that’s a bit of magical and hubristic thinking. We all already know how to do specific operations and even a robotic system doesn’t make the operation “better” or decrease metrics like blood loss or length of stay.  
    williamlondonhcrefugeewatto_cobragregoriusmmuthuk_vanalingamcg27
  • Reply 11 of 43
    badmonkbadmonk Posts: 1,327member
    No hospital is going to rely on an Apple consumer product for a safety critical task such as surgery.
    Actually healthcare workers prefer to use iPhones and iPads because of their dependability for our clinical work.  As an ICU physician, I relay on multiple iOS applications to get realtime data, communicate to colleagues and get access to drug and disease information.  Apple watches are almost ubiquitous, especially among my anesthesia colleagues.  The ratio of iPhones to android devices among practitioners (physicians, PAs and NPs) is greater than 10:1 in my experience.  Among RNs it is more like the general population with a bit more androids (though iPhones are still more prominent).

    And we constantly bitch about the poor design of hospital based IT systems though Epic and Cerner are decent.

    When I saw Apple demo the AVP, I immediately began to think about medical applications.  Getting quick data, especially realtime laboratory data is a challenge during medical urgencies & a virtual overlay would be of immense benefit to us.  But obviously you can’t be closed off to your environment in a crisis and need your hands to do procedures.  Time will tell.
    hcrefugeewilliamlondonlollivercoolfactorwatto_cobragregoriusmbaconstangcg27
  • Reply 12 of 43
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 3,031member
    Literally one of Metas use cases. 

    Hasn’t panned out. 

    It would take sensors inside the patients body to allow a headset to “see” where they are. 

    Most people want as little invasive ness as possible. 
  • Reply 13 of 43
    Transplant surgeon here

    Eriamjh -- I spend a lot of time using very high magnification glasses during transplants, and I have no doubt the Vision Pro would be capable of giving outstanding magnification/resolution for the most micro of surgery.  

    Mikethemartian -- Physicians would use Apple products during surgery in a heartbeat.  The most popular robotic system is Intuitive's da Vinci and it uses a 3-D immersive screen when performing all of the surgery (ie we do liver resections, organ procurements etc robotically).  And I have fully expect the resolution and clarity and experience for the Vision Pro to be exponentially superior to Intuitive's system, based on reported specs.   

    JP234 -- All of your Chicago area surgeons are using the Intuitive da Vinci system I described above  and BTW 95% percent have less than 10 years experience... most of those surgeons have far less than 5 years experience.  (That being said, the surgeons at U of I are some of the preeminent world leaders of robotic surgery...).  The visual technology we use in robotic systems are far inferior than that of the Vision Pro (if the specs are to be believed).   It would be great if we could sync the Vision Pro technology to the da Vinci system at some time in the future.  I would not be surprised to see a future collaboration there.   
    XedJP234coolfactoreightzerowatto_cobraradarthekatgregoriusmmacguiwilliamlondonbaconstang
  • Reply 14 of 43
    XedXed Posts: 2,823member
    No hospital is going to rely on an Apple consumer product for a safety critical task such as surgery.
    A decade ago I'm sure you would've said "No airline [nor the FAA] is going to rely on an Apple consumer product for a safety critical task [for an electronic flight bag]" and yet it happened.
    coolfactorcjcoopswatto_cobraradarthekatgregoriusmwilliamlondonbaconstang
  • Reply 15 of 43
    This reminds me of Iron Man’s AR/VR headset helmet. 
    watto_cobra9secondkox2
  • Reply 16 of 43
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 2,323member
    No hospital is going to rely on an Apple consumer product for a safety critical task such as surgery.

    You don't have much faith in Apple products, eh? The iPad is now used heavily in medical spaces. And Apple went with the "Pro" moniker out of the gate to show just how powerful and precise their headset is compared to what's already on the market. They jumped all the way to the front of the pack in terms of sheer resolution and processing power. That's already been well-expressed in the reviews of the Vision Pro. Clarity of what users see is not in question. Resolution is above what the retina can discern.

    If hospitals used more Apple computers, there'd be fewer data breaches. It blows my mind that Windows continues to have such a strong hold on that market.

    This is the birth of a new world, and Apple will definitely have a strong placement in medical sciences, research and facilities around the world.
    watto_cobragregoriusmwilliamlondonbaconstangcg27
  • Reply 17 of 43
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,898moderator
    netrox said:
    More and more surgeries rely on robots instead of humans to be more accurate and precise. I am not aware of Apple Vision Pro being capable of zooming in and how it coordinates with fine motor skills of surgeons. 


    It doesn't have to zoom.  It might not even be the Vision Pro's cameras that are being used.  Cameras mounted on the surgical robot might be streamed to the surgeon.  
    gregoriusmcg27
  • Reply 18 of 43
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,898moderator
    badmonk said:
    No hospital is going to rely on an Apple consumer product for a safety critical task such as surgery.
    Actually healthcare workers prefer to use iPhones and iPads because of their dependability for our clinical work.  As an ICU physician, I relay on multiple iOS applications to get realtime data, communicate to colleagues and get access to drug and disease information.  Apple watches are almost ubiquitous, especially among my anesthesia colleagues.  The ratio of iPhones to android devices among practitioners (physicians, PAs and NPs) is greater than 10:1 in my experience.  Among RNs it is more like the general population with a bit more androids (though iPhones are still more prominent).

    And we constantly bitch about the poor design of hospital based IT systems though Epic and Cerner are decent.

    When I saw Apple demo the AVP, I immediately began to think about medical applications.  Getting quick data, especially realtime laboratory data is a challenge during medical urgencies & a virtual overlay would be of immense benefit to us.  But obviously you can’t be closed off to your environment in a crisis and need your hands to do procedures.  Time will tell.
    Voice control.  First responder medics I could see using VP to both pull up needed information and to relay/record what they are seeing for use by emergency room personnel.  
    baconstang
  • Reply 19 of 43
    This place is cringe when bulls*t articles like this appear. This tech already exists, has existed for years, and is in use in countless hospitals around the globe.
    Apple didn't invent anything new. 
    williamlondon9secondkox2
  • Reply 20 of 43
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,267member
    I doubt it would be used for surgery just yet. I could see it used for remote community health services (eg community nurse on a home visit dons the vision pro and consults with speech pathologist back at the office, both watching the swallow reflex from the same perspective together).

    Royal Flying Doctor Service to do remote first aid and/or triage to decide What Needs To Be Done. 
    Need to pair with Starlink for that one.
    edited June 2023 williamlondonbaconstang
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