Apple is the world's biggest company at $3 trillion -- again

13»

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 49
    saareksaarek Posts: 1,520member
    davidw said:
    saarek said:
    Xed said:
    saarek said:
    Just in time for them to hike iCould rates in multiple countries by about a third.

    Their greed knows no bounds.
    So at what point should a company lose money due to inflation so that you can be happy?
    You’re right, I’d not realised that inflation was running at 33%… oh wait, it isn’t. Perhaps that’s not it.

    Maybe the currency has significantly weakened vs the dollar since the last price rise? No, actually, it’s improved.

    Hmmm, so. Inflation is out. Currency fluctuation is out, what does that leave us? Oh, yes. Greed.
    Maybe you don't realize but Apple buys nearly all of the cloud storage that their customers uses, from Google and Amazon (and maybe still some from Microsoft.) Apple is only in the "cloud" service business mainly for the convenience of their own customers. Apple own servers farms are primarily for their own internal business uses. Like Apple TV+, iTunes, Apple Music, Arcade, Apple Pay, rolling out software updates, etc.. Because Apple have to pay Amazon and Google for iCloud storage, Apple can not be as cheap as what Google, Microsoft and Amazon charges their customers. So Apple also takes the hit when Google and Amazon raise their prices for cloud storage, due to their own rising cost. I can guarantee you that no AAPL investors are buying more AAPL because Apple must be making a killing, by raising the cost of iCloud storage (in certain countries.).   

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/06/29/apple-is-now-googles-largest-corporate-customer-for-cloud-storage

    https://www.turningcloud.com/blog/apple-uses-aws/

     List of the top 10 cloud service providers. Amazon, Microsoft and Google controls over 65% of the cloud service market. Apple don't even make the top ten, even with over 1.5B iPhones customers. 

    https://dgtlinfra.com/top-10-cloud-service-providers-2022/

    https://technologymagazine.com/top10/top-10-biggest-cloud-providers-in-the-world-in-2023

    You need to start thinking outside the box. (Or as Apple put it .... think different). What is the one re-occurring cost in running a cloud server farm that have risen dramatically in Europe recently?  It's not the cost of the servers or taxes or the cost of labor, but the cost of electricity. And can you think of what recent event that might have caused the cost of electricity in Europe to almost double in some countries and at the least to increase by over 30% in most?

    Here's a hint in case you want to use one of your "lifelines" ...... (from the game show "Who Wants to be a Millionaire"). 

    https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/impact-war-ukraine-energy-prices-consequences-firms-financial-performance


    That’s all well and good, except for the fact that most of the EU has not had a price rise despite having the same higher energy costs.

    Also, the internet is a wonderful thing. It’s funny how an iPhone in the U.K. could access data on a cloud server in the USA, or anywhere else for that matter. Amazon and others, will have data storage sites all over the world.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 42 of 49
    saareksaarek Posts: 1,520member
    Xed said:
    saarek said:
    chasm said:
    saarek said:
    Just in time for them to hike iCould rates in multiple countries by about a third.

    Their greed knows no bounds.
    1. It went up by 20 percent, not a third. If you’re this bad at basic math, I cannot imagine why a story about financials would draw a comment from you.

    2. These are adjustments to cover currency fluctuations, not punitive price increases. The UK got hit pretty hard because it committed financial suicide a few years back, and that very dumb decision is coming back to bite them. Apple doesn’t micro-adjust prices, it makes broad moves for where it predicts the currency will go going forward. Bad news for the countries affected.

    3. Their valuation isn’t set by them, its the consensus worth of the company and its assets and prospects set by investors and the financial community. It’s not the amount of money they have, nor an indication of “greed.”

    You really should not have slept through those college courses on economics. This is very very basic stuff you don’t appear to know.
    1 - 2: Ah bless you. Calling out someone’s mathematics ability without having your own basic sums in place. The increase was 25-31%, dependent on the plan and country in question. Ergo the “about a third” comment. 

    Apple priced in the lower sterling to dollar ratio after Brexit, it’s held steady around $1.28 to the £ for months now so this has nothing to do with currency fluctuations, expected or otherwise.

    3: I never claimed that Apple controlled their valuation, do keep up dear. No, what I said was that the valuation announcement ironically coincided with their price gouging, aka greed, over iCloud.

    Hopefully it’s all cleared up for you now. I know that sometimes it can be hard to read a negative comment about Apple.

    Chasm laid it out nicely for you. But way to double down on your ignorance—that takes talent.
    If by laying it out for me you’re referring to the incorrect information they supplied that simply plays out a view point you want to be correct, well then yes, I suppose they did. 
    williamlondon
  • Reply 43 of 49
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,781member
    Xed said:
    saarek said:
    chasm said:
    saarek said:
    Just in time for them to hike iCould rates in multiple countries by about a third.

    Their greed knows no bounds.
    1. It went up by 20 percent, not a third. If you’re this bad at basic math, I cannot imagine why a story about financials would draw a comment from you.

    2. These are adjustments to cover currency fluctuations, not punitive price increases. The UK got hit pretty hard because it committed financial suicide a few years back, and that very dumb decision is coming back to bite them. Apple doesn’t micro-adjust prices, it makes broad moves for where it predicts the currency will go going forward. Bad news for the countries affected.

    3. Their valuation isn’t set by them, its the consensus worth of the company and its assets and prospects set by investors and the financial community. It’s not the amount of money they have, nor an indication of “greed.”

    You really should not have slept through those college courses on economics. This is very very basic stuff you don’t appear to know.
    1 - 2: Ah bless you. Calling out someone’s mathematics ability without having your own basic sums in place. The increase was 25-31%, dependent on the plan and country in question. Ergo the “about a third” comment. 

    Apple priced in the lower sterling to dollar ratio after Brexit, it’s held steady around $1.28 to the £ for months now so this has nothing to do with currency fluctuations, expected or otherwise.

    3: I never claimed that Apple controlled their valuation, do keep up dear. No, what I said was that the valuation announcement ironically coincided with their price gouging, aka greed, over iCloud.

    Hopefully it’s all cleared up for you now. I know that sometimes it can be hard to read a negative comment about Apple.

    Chasm laid it out nicely for you. But way to double down on your ignorance—that takes talent.
    Well it doesn't fit their BS narrative so it just goes in one ear and out the other.
    williamlondonStrangeDays
  • Reply 44 of 49
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,781member
    saarek said:
    Xed said:
    saarek said:
    chasm said:
    saarek said:
    Just in time for them to hike iCould rates in multiple countries by about a third.

    Their greed knows no bounds.
    1. It went up by 20 percent, not a third. If you’re this bad at basic math, I cannot imagine why a story about financials would draw a comment from you.

    2. These are adjustments to cover currency fluctuations, not punitive price increases. The UK got hit pretty hard because it committed financial suicide a few years back, and that very dumb decision is coming back to bite them. Apple doesn’t micro-adjust prices, it makes broad moves for where it predicts the currency will go going forward. Bad news for the countries affected.

    3. Their valuation isn’t set by them, its the consensus worth of the company and its assets and prospects set by investors and the financial community. It’s not the amount of money they have, nor an indication of “greed.”

    You really should not have slept through those college courses on economics. This is very very basic stuff you don’t appear to know.
    1 - 2: Ah bless you. Calling out someone’s mathematics ability without having your own basic sums in place. The increase was 25-31%, dependent on the plan and country in question. Ergo the “about a third” comment. 

    Apple priced in the lower sterling to dollar ratio after Brexit, it’s held steady around $1.28 to the £ for months now so this has nothing to do with currency fluctuations, expected or otherwise.

    3: I never claimed that Apple controlled their valuation, do keep up dear. No, what I said was that the valuation announcement ironically coincided with their price gouging, aka greed, over iCloud.

    Hopefully it’s all cleared up for you now. I know that sometimes it can be hard to read a negative comment about Apple.

    Chasm laid it out nicely for you. But way to double down on your ignorance—that takes talent.
    If by laying it out for me you’re referring to the incorrect information they supplied that simply plays out a view point you want to be correct, well then yes, I suppose they did. 
    What exactly is incorrect about it? 
    williamlondonpscooter63StrangeDays
  • Reply 45 of 49
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,025member
    saarek said:
    davidw said:
    saarek said:
    Xed said:
    saarek said:
    Just in time for them to hike iCould rates in multiple countries by about a third.

    Their greed knows no bounds.
    So at what point should a company lose money due to inflation so that you can be happy?
    You’re right, I’d not realised that inflation was running at 33%… oh wait, it isn’t. Perhaps that’s not it.

    Maybe the currency has significantly weakened vs the dollar since the last price rise? No, actually, it’s improved.

    Hmmm, so. Inflation is out. Currency fluctuation is out, what does that leave us? Oh, yes. Greed.
    Maybe you don't realize but Apple buys nearly all of the cloud storage that their customers uses, from Google and Amazon (and maybe still some from Microsoft.) Apple is only in the "cloud" service business mainly for the convenience of their own customers. Apple own servers farms are primarily for their own internal business uses. Like Apple TV+, iTunes, Apple Music, Arcade, Apple Pay, rolling out software updates, etc.. Because Apple have to pay Amazon and Google for iCloud storage, Apple can not be as cheap as what Google, Microsoft and Amazon charges their customers. So Apple also takes the hit when Google and Amazon raise their prices for cloud storage, due to their own rising cost. I can guarantee you that no AAPL investors are buying more AAPL because Apple must be making a killing, by raising the cost of iCloud storage (in certain countries.).   

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/06/29/apple-is-now-googles-largest-corporate-customer-for-cloud-storage

    https://www.turningcloud.com/blog/apple-uses-aws/

     List of the top 10 cloud service providers. Amazon, Microsoft and Google controls over 65% of the cloud service market. Apple don't even make the top ten, even with over 1.5B iPhones customers. 

    https://dgtlinfra.com/top-10-cloud-service-providers-2022/

    https://technologymagazine.com/top10/top-10-biggest-cloud-providers-in-the-world-in-2023

    You need to start thinking outside the box. (Or as Apple put it .... think different). What is the one re-occurring cost in running a cloud server farm that have risen dramatically in Europe recently?  It's not the cost of the servers or taxes or the cost of labor, but the cost of electricity. And can you think of what recent event that might have caused the cost of electricity in Europe to almost double in some countries and at the least to increase by over 30% in most?

    Here's a hint in case you want to use one of your "lifelines" ...... (from the game show "Who Wants to be a Millionaire"). 

    https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/impact-war-ukraine-energy-prices-consequences-firms-financial-performance


    That’s all well and good, except for the fact that most of the EU has not had a price rise despite having the same higher energy costs.

    Also, the internet is a wonderful thing. It’s funny how an iPhone in the U.K. could access data on a cloud server in the USA, or anywhere else for that matter. Amazon and others, will have data storage sites all over the world.

    Funny how the EU (and maybe the UK), mandate that their citizens cloud data must be stored on servers within the border of the EU. Facebook got fined $1.9B by the EU for storing EU citizens data on their US servers.




    >Personal data that is associated with EU citizens should be processed and stored within EU borders. However, there are exclusions from that rule  ........... <

    Amazon, Google and Microsoft maintain server farms for cloud storage with in the EU border because EU GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation) mandates it. And the UK also have their own version of GDPR that carried over from when they were in the EU.
     

    Evidently, the UK economy is not recovering as fast as their EU counterparts. Inflation is still high in the UK while already dropping in the EU.


    But the fact that seems to be the most pertinent is that before Apple raised their iCloud storage cost in the UK, the UK was paying well below what was being charged in the EU and the US. Over 10% less.

    >Before this week, in the UK, Apple charged £0.79/mo for 50 GB, £2.49/mo for 200 GB and £6.99/mo for 2 TB respectively. These prices have now risen to £0.99/mo, £2.99/mo and £8.99/mo, an average increase of around ~25%.<

    At £6.99/mo for 2 TB, that comes to $8.88 US. In the US we were already paying $9.99 for 2TB.

    At £6.99/mo for 2 TB, that comes to 7.75 Euro. In the EU, they were already paying 9.99 Euro. Which is equal to $10.91 US. 

    At the now price of £8.99/mo for 2TB, that's $11.42 US and 10.46 Euro.

    So even with this "about 25%" increase, the UK is only paying about 5% more than in the EU and about 15% more than in the US. And the EU is already paying 10% more than the US.

    Plus the EU and UK rate includes all taxes, while the US rate do not include tax, as each State charges a different sales tax rate. Anywhere from 0 to 9.5%, with an average of 6.5%. So the 15% more than the US is less than 8% more in most cases. Or you can look at it another way. Deduct the VAT from the cost in the UK and EU and Apple is charging both less, than what they're charging in the US. 




    BTW- these numbers were calculated using the current exchange rate (I believe). These numbers might be very different a year ago or even 6 months ago because of the changing exchange rate.



    XedRudeBoyRudyronnwilliamlondon
  • Reply 46 of 49
    bloggerblogbloggerblog Posts: 2,455member
    I bought my stock in 1998  :D
  • Reply 47 of 49
    for years I had a number in mind. At that price, my AAPL shares would be worth $2 million.

    I happened to be looking at the Stocks app when it hit that number this past week. Got a screen shot of it and also of the calculator showing the exact worth of my shares at that price. It closed above that and has stayed above it. It's in my retirement account... but one of the few silver linings of being in my late 50s is that in about 15 months I can start drawing on it - if I wish - without early withdrawal penalty. It's not my only significant asset but it's been key to my financial security for years: knowing that my retirement is secured has freed up my work and investment income for other useful purposes. I've got an amazing job I love at a world-class institution that I will never lose so long as I don't do either of two things that are very easy to not do. I'm pretty much set for life thanks to a very modest investment I made in AAPL 23 years ago.

    It happened to be an outstanding day for me for other reasons, such as the intel fed to me about the latest laughably bad life choices my clueless, triumphant ex is making. It seems a couple of her friends whom she mistakenly trusts too much share my disappointment in her and are eager to spill the T for their own reasons.

    I'll remember 6/27/23 for quite a while.

    Next stop, $3 million. Thanks Steve. Thanks Tim.
    Thanks for the beautiful post.  Registered with the forum after reading this site daily for over 20 years to echo your sentiment.  It seems oddly that many of us hit the same $2MM milestone this week.

    I bought my first stock (AAPL of course) in 2000 when I had $1,000 of disposable income for the first time.  Like a novice I panicked and sold it for a loss(!) within a year despite being quite literally a lifelong Apple fanatic since the ‘70s.  I never doubted Apple, but I did doubt investors who could influence the valuation.  Later I learned that investors’ shortsightedness and doubts only made the stock more appealing for the long term.

    My big break came in 2008 (coincidentally the iPhone year) when I received a $40k severance.  (Incidentally it’s crazy that I now frame losing my favorite job as my big break).  I put all of it into AAPL and also rolled over 401(k) into an IRA and put 100% of it into AAPL as well.  I still remember the awkward silence when the broker asked me if I wanted help investing and I said no it’s all going into Apple.  A couple years later I used the non-retirement investment to fund a multi year break from working.  If I hadn’t done that I’d be retired by now, but it was therapeutic.  Meanwhile my rollover and Roth IRA which have always been 100% AAPL and they shot through the roof.  Later I started supplementing it with regular take-home pay investments, always buying and — literally never selling a share to this day — amassing over 10,000 shares which hit the $2MM milestone after years of almost daily monitoring.

    2022 was decidedly a rough ride but as you know there are routinely days when AAPL gains top tens of thousands of dollars and many years when those returns dwarf my 6-figure income.  The lesson you reference RE: capital gains was one that only hit me this past year.  Such a shame that company retirement accounts don’t let us put post-tax money into ETFs (at least not where I’ve worked).  Still, I’m in no position to complain.

    I’m now hopefully a few years away from a decent retirement in my mid-50s.  AAPL growing another 50% will unlock that milestone for me, which hopefully will happen within 6 years.

    Thank you Steve and Tim for the peace of mind and security you’ve given me.  Looking forward to all the insanely great products to come.
    williamlondonStrangeDayscg27
  • Reply 48 of 49
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,781member
    saarek said:
    Xed said:
    saarek said:
    chasm said:
    saarek said:
    Just in time for them to hike iCould rates in multiple countries by about a third.

    Their greed knows no bounds.
    1. It went up by 20 percent, not a third. If you’re this bad at basic math, I cannot imagine why a story about financials would draw a comment from you.

    2. These are adjustments to cover currency fluctuations, not punitive price increases. The UK got hit pretty hard because it committed financial suicide a few years back, and that very dumb decision is coming back to bite them. Apple doesn’t micro-adjust prices, it makes broad moves for where it predicts the currency will go going forward. Bad news for the countries affected.

    3. Their valuation isn’t set by them, its the consensus worth of the company and its assets and prospects set by investors and the financial community. It’s not the amount of money they have, nor an indication of “greed.”

    You really should not have slept through those college courses on economics. This is very very basic stuff you don’t appear to know.
    1 - 2: Ah bless you. Calling out someone’s mathematics ability without having your own basic sums in place. The increase was 25-31%, dependent on the plan and country in question. Ergo the “about a third” comment. 

    Apple priced in the lower sterling to dollar ratio after Brexit, it’s held steady around $1.28 to the £ for months now so this has nothing to do with currency fluctuations, expected or otherwise.

    3: I never claimed that Apple controlled their valuation, do keep up dear. No, what I said was that the valuation announcement ironically coincided with their price gouging, aka greed, over iCloud.

    Hopefully it’s all cleared up for you now. I know that sometimes it can be hard to read a negative comment about Apple.

    Chasm laid it out nicely for you. But way to double down on your ignorance—that takes talent.
    If by laying it out for me you’re referring to the incorrect information they supplied that simply plays out a view point you want to be correct, well then yes, I suppose they did. 
    Anddddd they go silent what asked what is incorrect about it. Typical!
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 49 of 49
    davidw said:
    for years I had a number in mind. At that price, my AAPL shares would be worth $2 million.

    I happened to be looking at the Stocks app when it hit that number this past week. Got a screen shot of it and also of the calculator showing the exact worth of my shares at that price. It closed above that and has stayed above it. It's in my retirement account... but one of the few silver linings of being in my late 50s is that in about 15 months I can start drawing on it - if I wish - without early withdrawal penalty. It's not my only significant asset but it's been key to my financial security for years: knowing that my retirement is secured has freed up my work and investment income for other useful purposes. I've got an amazing job I love at a world-class institution that I will never lose so long as I don't do either of two things that are very easy to not do. I'm pretty much set for life thanks to a very modest investment I made in AAPL 23 years ago.

    It happened to be an outstanding day for me for other reasons, such as the intel fed to me about the latest laughably bad life choices my clueless, triumphant ex is making. It seems a couple of her friends whom she mistakenly trusts too much share my disappointment in her and are eager to spill the T for their own reasons.

    I'll remember 6/27/23 for quite a while.

    Next stop, $3 million. Thanks Steve. Thanks Tim.
    We hold nearly the same number of shares, but mine I acquired 12 years ago.  After a couple big splits and selling 60% of my shares to take positions in Tesla, IBM, NVidia and Regeneron, I have 12,000 shares remaining.  

    But you are in a much more enviable tax situation. Because your AAPL investment is not locked in a tradition IRA (or an employers IRA), all your AAPL gains will be taxed at 0/15/20% (depending on the amount of your other incomes). While @sconosciuto AAPL holding will be taxed as ordinary income and most likely at 22% at the least. The difference is not that dramatic if one only cash in about $50K  of AAPL a year. But if you were to sell $2M of AAPL in one year, your Fed taxes would be all long term capital gains and be about $375K. (no more than $400K (at 20%) if you already have more than about $550K in ordinary income and don't fall under AMT.) 

    On the other hand, if @sconosciuto were to withdraw $2M in AAPL (after he turns 59 1/2), he would pay about $670K in Fed taxes because all of it would be taxed as ordinary income (At 37% for the amount over $650K). Even if he invested in AAPL in an IRA, over 20 years ago. His original investment might have benefited from being tax deferred, but when a stock have risen as much as AAPL has in the past 20 years, the tax deferred savings becomes a rounding error. Plus all your AAPL dividend is also taxed as long term capital gains in the year you receive it, while the dividend from a stock in an IRA, is still taxed as ordinary income when withdrawn.

    That said, an IRA (tradition, Roth or employers) is still the best  way for most, to save for retirement. I have an employers IRA and all the money I earned in it, is still stilling in there. This after turning 59 1/2 over 8 years ago. They say that one of the main selling point of a traditional IRA is that you get to withdraw your money at a lower tax rate when retired, than when it was earned. Well, that only works if your retirement income is dramatically less than your income when working. If I knew back then, what i know now, I would have invested most of the money I put in my employers IRA, into buying more AAPL in my stock portfolio. Those extra shares of AAPL would be worth much, much more than what my IRA is worth now. And will be taxed as long term capital gains. But hindsight is 20/20. Better to play it safe and just save for retirement, knowing that the money you save will be there when you retire. 
    I fully intend to begin drawing on my IRA at 59 1/2 (only about 20 months from now)... for a long time I thought, "hell no, I want to put off drawing on it as long as possible and let it keep growing!"

    Then over the last three or four years AAPL has gone up so much that I now realize I'll be in a much higher tax bracket if I put off the withdrawals. What a great problem to have!
Sign In or Register to comment.