Why does everything have to interoperate? I buy Apple products. I don’t buy Google things. I made a choice to buy Apple-only products. What business does the EU have telling me I have to use, or allow to use, other products? What product has the EU improved? None that I know of. They’re just doing a huge money grab.
Would you prefer that your carrier only connected to users that used the same carrier?
That should be a decision by the carrier and it would be up to the customer to decide if they liked the idea or not.
Not some fat, tax eating bureaucrat in Brussels. Dictating I might add, about the products developed by some one outside their jurisdiction.
the Little Red Hen was not meant to be an instruction manual for the other farm animals.
They aren't dictating anything about the products being developed outside their jurisdiction. Apple can develop and manufacture anything they want outside the EU without any EU laws applying. But when they import it for sale in the EU, that's when EU law applies. Suck it up.
And Apple should take up that challenge, design Apple devices, especially for the EU, a series of base, close devices similar to game consoles.
You jest (maybe!) but an EU iPhone with uncrippled NFC, easy repairabilty, removable battery, choice of app store etc might see hot demand well outside the EU.
Why does everything have to interoperate? I buy Apple products. I don’t buy Google things. I made a choice to buy Apple-only products. What business does the EU have telling me I have to use, or allow to use, other products? What product has the EU improved? None that I know of. They’re just doing a huge money grab.
How dare I be given options!
You do have options. If you want a phone that allows side loading get an android phone. See, that’s an options
I don't see that at all and no one ever will until Apple states, plainly and clearly, and prior to purchase, everything (with regards to choice) that the user is giving up.
Apple might well be able to sidestep a lot of regulations by making users sign off explicitly on those terms before purchase.
Do you think Apple would be that transparent to its users? Or would they back away from such a move for fear of lost sales?
Why does everything have to interoperate? I buy Apple products. I don’t buy Google things. I made a choice to buy Apple-only products. What business does the EU have telling me I have to use, or allow to use, other products? What product has the EU improved? None that I know of. They’re just doing a huge money grab.
Would you prefer that your carrier only connected to users that used the same carrier?
That should be a decision by the carrier and it would be up to the customer to decide if they liked the idea or not.
Not some fat, tax eating bureaucrat in Brussels. Dictating I might add, about the products developed by some one outside their jurisdiction.
the Little Red Hen was not meant to be an instruction manual for the other farm animals.
They aren't dictating anything about the products being developed outside their jurisdiction. Apple can develop and manufacture anything they want outside the EU without any EU laws applying. But when they import it for sale in the EU, that's when EU law applies. Suck it up.
And Apple should take up that challenge, design Apple devices, especially for the EU, a series of base, close devices similar to game consoles.
You jest (maybe!) but an EU iPhone with uncrippled NFC, easy repairabilty, removable battery, choice of app store etc might see hot demand well outside the EU.
Are there even any phones made in the EU anymore, other than a few boutique phones sold in the thousands, not millions? Likely not.
Do we really want the EU designing phones that are built overseas? Probably not.
If the phone you describe is so desirable, how about the EU fund its manufacture, in the EU? Would it be cost effective, and would it sell?
The phone you describe is not needed, and would meet with little demand in the rest of the world, such is the longevity and reliability of the devices that are already in service.
Frankly, disallowing the major manufacturers from building devices, for the most part, as they see fit, would only hamstring the industry, and ultimately the consumer.
Why does everything have to interoperate? I buy Apple products. I don’t buy Google things. I made a choice to buy Apple-only products. What business does the EU have telling me I have to use, or allow to use, other products? What product has the EU improved? None that I know of. They’re just doing a huge money grab.
How dare I be given options!
You do have options. If you want a phone that allows side loading get an android phone. See, that’s an options
I don't see that at all and no one ever will until Apple states, plainly and clearly, and prior to purchase, everything (with regards to choice) that the user is giving up.
Apple might well be able to sidestep a lot of regulations by making users sign off explicitly on those terms before purchase.
Do you think Apple would be that transparent to its users? Or would they back away from such a move for fear of lost sales?
The iPhone has been evolved and sold worldwide for something on the order of 17 years, and you don't think that today's buyer has a sufficient clue about Apple's terms and business model?
Why does everything have to interoperate? I buy Apple products. I don’t buy Google things. I made a choice to buy Apple-only products. What business does the EU have telling me I have to use, or allow to use, other products? What product has the EU improved? None that I know of. They’re just doing a huge money grab.
How dare I be given options!
You do have options. If you want a phone that allows side loading get an android phone. See, that’s an options
I don't see that at all and no one ever will until Apple states, plainly and clearly, and prior to purchase, everything (with regards to choice) that the user is giving up.
Apple might well be able to sidestep a lot of regulations by making users sign off explicitly on those terms before purchase.
Do you think Apple would be that transparent to its users? Or would they back away from such a move for fear of lost sales?
The iPhone has been evolved and sold worldwide for something on the order of 17 years, and you don't think that today's buyer has a sufficient clue about Apple's terms and business model?
Absolutely not!
I'm confident that the vast majority of iPhone users have little to no knowledge of these issues.
I make a point of asking users I run into. No one has ever shown even a basic understanding of what is going on.
Why does everything have to interoperate? I buy Apple products. I don’t buy Google things. I made a choice to buy Apple-only products. What business does the EU have telling me I have to use, or allow to use, other products? What product has the EU improved? None that I know of. They’re just doing a huge money grab.
Would you prefer that your carrier only connected to users that used the same carrier?
That should be a decision by the carrier and it would be up to the customer to decide if they liked the idea or not.
Not some fat, tax eating bureaucrat in Brussels. Dictating I might add, about the products developed by some one outside their jurisdiction.
the Little Red Hen was not meant to be an instruction manual for the other farm animals.
They aren't dictating anything about the products being developed outside their jurisdiction. Apple can develop and manufacture anything they want outside the EU without any EU laws applying. But when they import it for sale in the EU, that's when EU law applies. Suck it up.
And Apple should take up that challenge, design Apple devices, especially for the EU, a series of base, close devices similar to game consoles.
You jest (maybe!) but an EU iPhone with uncrippled NFC, easy repairabilty, removable battery, choice of app store etc might see hot demand well outside the EU.
Are there even any phones made in the EU anymore, other than a few boutique phones sold in the thousands, not millions? Likely not.
Do we really want the EU designing phones that are built overseas? Probably not.
If the phone you describe is so desirable, how about the EU fund its manufacture, in the EU? Would it be cost effective, and would it sell?
The phone you describe is not needed, and would meet with little demand in the rest of the world, such is the longevity and reliability of the devices that are already in service.
Frankly, disallowing the major manufacturers from building devices, for the most part, as they see fit, would only hamstring the industry, and ultimately the consumer.
For the most part, manufacturers do exactly as they see fit.
These laws are there for consumers, competition and the environment.
Why does everything have to interoperate? I buy Apple products. I don’t buy Google things. I made a choice to buy Apple-only products. What business does the EU have telling me I have to use, or allow to use, other products? What product has the EU improved? None that I know of. They’re just doing a huge money grab.
How dare I be given options!
You do have options. If you want a phone that allows side loading get an android phone. See, that’s an options
I don't see that at all and no one ever will until Apple states, plainly and clearly, and prior to purchase, everything (with regards to choice) that the user is giving up.
Apple might well be able to sidestep a lot of regulations by making users sign off explicitly on those terms before purchase.
Do you think Apple would be that transparent to its users? Or would they back away from such a move for fear of lost sales?
The iPhone has been evolved and sold worldwide for something on the order of 17 years, and you don't think that today's buyer has a sufficient clue about Apple's terms and business model?
Absolutely not!
I'm confident that the vast majority of iPhone users have little to no knowledge of these issues.
I make a point of asking users I run into. No one has ever shown even a basic understanding of what is going on.
That is some "solid" anecdotal evidence, which is easily disproved by years of consumer satisfaction in the iPhone.
Seriously, you would get a similar reaction if you pointed out the limitations with Android OS, and yes, there are many limitations with Android OS, or whatever Huawei is pushing for that matter.
Why does everything have to interoperate? I buy Apple products. I don’t buy Google things. I made a choice to buy Apple-only products. What business does the EU have telling me I have to use, or allow to use, other products? What product has the EU improved? None that I know of. They’re just doing a huge money grab.
How dare I be given options!
You do have options. If you want a phone that allows side loading get an android phone. See, that’s an options
I don't see that at all and no one ever will until Apple states, plainly and clearly, and prior to purchase, everything (with regards to choice) that the user is giving up.
Apple might well be able to sidestep a lot of regulations by making users sign off explicitly on those terms before purchase.
Do you think Apple would be that transparent to its users? Or would they back away from such a move for fear of lost sales?
The iPhone has been evolved and sold worldwide for something on the order of 17 years, and you don't think that today's buyer has a sufficient clue about Apple's terms and business model?
Absolutely not!
I'm confident that the vast majority of iPhone users have little to no knowledge of these issues.
I make a point of asking users I run into. No one has ever shown even a basic understanding of what is going on.
That is some "solid" anecdotal evidence, which is easily disproved by years of consumer satisfaction in the iPhone.
Seriously, you would get a similar reaction if you pointed out the limitations with Android OS, and yes, there are many limitations with Android OS, or whatever Huawei is pushing for that matter.
Why take issue with my sample?
It is what it is and I made no attempt to sell it for more than that.
It's real in my circle. That's all.
Give it a go yourself.
As for consumer satisfaction. That does not disprove anything because we are not talking about satisfaction, but knowledge.
Why does everything have to interoperate? I buy Apple products. I don’t buy Google things. I made a choice to buy Apple-only products. What business does the EU have telling me I have to use, or allow to use, other products? What product has the EU improved? None that I know of. They’re just doing a huge money grab.
How dare I be given options!
You do have options. If you want a phone that allows side loading get an android phone. See, that’s an options
I don't see that at all and no one ever will until Apple states, plainly and clearly, and prior to purchase, everything (with regards to choice) that the user is giving up.
Apple might well be able to sidestep a lot of regulations by making users sign off explicitly on those terms before purchase.
Do you think Apple would be that transparent to its users? Or would they back away from such a move for fear of lost sales?
The iPhone has been evolved and sold worldwide for something on the order of 17 years, and you don't think that today's buyer has a sufficient clue about Apple's terms and business model?
Absolutely not!
I'm confident that the vast majority of iPhone users have little to no knowledge of these issues.
I make a point of asking users I run into. No one has ever shown even a basic understanding of what is going on.
That is some "solid" anecdotal evidence, which is easily disproved by years of consumer satisfaction in the iPhone.
Seriously, you would get a similar reaction if you pointed out the limitations with Android OS, and yes, there are many limitations with Android OS, or whatever Huawei is pushing for that matter.
Why take issue with my sample?
It is what it is and I made no attempt to sell it for more than that.
It's real in my circle. That's all.
Give it a go yourself.
As for consumer satisfaction. That does not disprove anything because we are not talking about satisfaction, but knowledge.
You; "I make a point of asking users I run into."
Of course you would. You are well known for having an agenda here, so we would be safe in assuming that you have an agenda in the real world.
Me; it's none of my fucking business what phones people use or why they use them, unless they specifically ask for my opinion, but I'm certainly not going to be a dick and question them as you did.
The irony of all this is that you and I both are likely using the same phones, today as when you showed up here on AI. Me, an iPhone 7, and you, an Honor 10. Neither of us is in a position to decide someone else's needs based on our experience with these obsolete devices.
Why does everything have to interoperate? I buy Apple products. I don’t buy Google things. I made a choice to buy Apple-only products. What business does the EU have telling me I have to use, or allow to use, other products? What product has the EU improved? None that I know of. They’re just doing a huge money grab.
How dare I be given options!
You do have options. If you want a phone that allows side loading get an android phone. See, that’s an options
I don't see that at all and no one ever will until Apple states, plainly and clearly, and prior to purchase, everything (with regards to choice) that the user is giving up.
Apple might well be able to sidestep a lot of regulations by making users sign off explicitly on those terms before purchase.
Do you think Apple would be that transparent to its users? Or would they back away from such a move for fear of lost sales?
The iPhone has been evolved and sold worldwide for something on the order of 17 years, and you don't think that today's buyer has a sufficient clue about Apple's terms and business model?
Absolutely not!
I'm confident that the vast majority of iPhone users have little to no knowledge of these issues.
I make a point of asking users I run into. No one has ever shown even a basic understanding of what is going on.
That is some "solid" anecdotal evidence, which is easily disproved by years of consumer satisfaction in the iPhone.
Seriously, you would get a similar reaction if you pointed out the limitations with Android OS, and yes, there are many limitations with Android OS, or whatever Huawei is pushing for that matter.
Why take issue with my sample?
It is what it is and I made no attempt to sell it for more than that.
It's real in my circle. That's all.
Give it a go yourself.
As for consumer satisfaction. That does not disprove anything because we are not talking about satisfaction, but knowledge.
You; "I make a point of asking users I run into."
Of course you would. You are well known for having an agenda here, so we would be safe in assuming that you have an agenda in the real world.
Me; it's none of my fucking business what phones people use or why they use them, unless they specifically ask for my opinion, but I'm certainly not going to be a dick and question them as you did.
The irony of all this is that you and I both are likely using the same phones, today as when you showed up here on AI. Me, an iPhone 7, and you, an Honor 10. Neither of us is in a position to decide someone else's needs based on our experience with these obsolete devices.
I don't question people. It's not an interrogation. I bring it up as part of a conversation. A normal conversation.
So people can specifically ask you things and you have no issue with it. That's how it should be. A non-issue.
It's exactly what I do. It's not an agenda. I'm not trying to convince them of anything. I'm not deciding their needs.
I'm getting an idea of how much they know about certain aspects of Apple's practices.
I have an Honor 50 and an Honor 10. I still have the Honor 7 which works fine.
Why does everything have to interoperate? I buy Apple products. I don’t buy Google things. I made a choice to buy Apple-only products. What business does the EU have telling me I have to use, or allow to use, other products? What product has the EU improved? None that I know of. They’re just doing a huge money grab.
How dare I be given options!
You do have options. If you want a phone that allows side loading get an android phone. See, that’s an options
I don't see that at all and no one ever will until Apple states, plainly and clearly, and prior to purchase, everything (with regards to choice) that the user is giving up.
Apple might well be able to sidestep a lot of regulations by making users sign off explicitly on those terms before purchase.
Do you think Apple would be that transparent to its users? Or would they back away from such a move for fear of lost sales?
The iPhone has been evolved and sold worldwide for something on the order of 17 years, and you don't think that today's buyer has a sufficient clue about Apple's terms and business model?
Absolutely not!
I'm confident that the vast majority of iPhone users have little to no knowledge of these issues.
I make a point of asking users I run into. No one has ever shown even a basic understanding of what is going on.
That is some "solid" anecdotal evidence, which is easily disproved by years of consumer satisfaction in the iPhone.
Seriously, you would get a similar reaction if you pointed out the limitations with Android OS, and yes, there are many limitations with Android OS, or whatever Huawei is pushing for that matter.
Why take issue with my sample?
It is what it is and I made no attempt to sell it for more than that.
It's real in my circle. That's all.
Give it a go yourself.
As for consumer satisfaction. That does not disprove anything because we are not talking about satisfaction, but knowledge.
You; "I make a point of asking users I run into."
Of course you would. You are well known for having an agenda here, so we would be safe in assuming that you have an agenda in the real world.
Me; it's none of my fucking business what phones people use or why they use them, unless they specifically ask for my opinion, but I'm certainly not going to be a dick and question them as you did.
The irony of all this is that you and I both are likely using the same phones, today as when you showed up here on AI. Me, an iPhone 7, and you, an Honor 10. Neither of us is in a position to decide someone else's needs based on our experience with these obsolete devices.
I don't question people. It's not an interrogation. I bring it up as part of a conversation. A normal conversation.
So people can specifically ask you things and you have no issue with it. That's how it should be. A non-issue.
It's exactly what I do. It's not an agenda. I'm not trying to convince them of anything. I'm not deciding their needs.
I'm getting an idea of how much they know about certain aspects of Apple's practices.
I have an Honor 50 and an Honor 10. I still have the Honor 7 which works fine.
LOL!
There's your agenda again...
Well, the Honor 50 is a nice upgrade for you. Sad that Honor can't generate much in the way of profits on that. Probably why you have an agenda wrt Apple iPhone.
I've been saying for nearly a decade that Apple could meet all of EU's rules by allowing iPhone and iPad users to install Android when they set up their device. There's no reason for iOS to support third party app stores if Apple supports Android for iPhones. There's your choice. How many iPhone users would install Android, maybe 1%?
Don't people already have that choice? They can go buy an Android phone, today. Why should Apple have to support its most direct competitor, and how does that benefit anyone except people who don't like Apple and want to see it ruined via government fiat?
That's not what 22july2013 means. He thinks that Apple can slyly skirt regulations by pointing to the fact that an alternative operating system can be installed on their hardware. As if regulators will magically be satisfied by something that no one will actually do and that doesn't achieve the goals they're aiming for.
It's a really thick headed point that he's been making for a long time, and everyone's complete rejection of it just makes him think that he's even more right, because he's a contrarian idiot.
At least you understood my point. Thanks. Many others don't.
I'm becoming disillusioned with Apple for not fighting back. Every time the EU asks for something, Apple hands it over. Next, the EU will demand that Apples' App Store not be the default app store. And Apple will cave. Then the EU will ask for iMessage to fully support RCS. And Apple will cave. This will be Tim Cook's legacy: caving.
Google and Facebook fight governments better than Apple does.
Why does everything have to interoperate? I buy Apple products. I don’t buy Google things. I made a choice to buy Apple-only products. What business does the EU have telling me I have to use, or allow to use, other products? What product has the EU improved? None that I know of. They’re just doing a huge money grab.
How dare I be given options!
You do have options. If you want a phone that allows side loading get an android phone. See, that’s an options
I don't see that at all and no one ever will until Apple states, plainly and clearly, and prior to purchase, everything (with regards to choice) that the user is giving up.
Apple might well be able to sidestep a lot of regulations by making users sign off explicitly on those terms before purchase.
Do you think Apple would be that transparent to its users? Or would they back away from such a move for fear of lost sales?
The iPhone has been evolved and sold worldwide for something on the order of 17 years, and you don't think that today's buyer has a sufficient clue about Apple's terms and business model?
Absolutely not!
I'm confident that the vast majority of iPhone users have little to no knowledge of these issues.
I make a point of asking users I run into. No one has ever shown even a basic understanding of what is going on.
That is some "solid" anecdotal evidence, which is easily disproved by years of consumer satisfaction in the iPhone.
Seriously, you would get a similar reaction if you pointed out the limitations with Android OS, and yes, there are many limitations with Android OS, or whatever Huawei is pushing for that matter.
Why take issue with my sample?
It is what it is and I made no attempt to sell it for more than that.
It's real in my circle. That's all.
Give it a go yourself.
As for consumer satisfaction. That does not disprove anything because we are not talking about satisfaction, but knowledge.
You; "I make a point of asking users I run into."
Of course you would. You are well known for having an agenda here, so we would be safe in assuming that you have an agenda in the real world.
Me; it's none of my fucking business what phones people use or why they use them, unless they specifically ask for my opinion, but I'm certainly not going to be a dick and question them as you did.
The irony of all this is that you and I both are likely using the same phones, today as when you showed up here on AI. Me, an iPhone 7, and you, an Honor 10. Neither of us is in a position to decide someone else's needs based on our experience with these obsolete devices.
I don't question people. It's not an interrogation. I bring it up as part of a conversation. A normal conversation.
So people can specifically ask you things and you have no issue with it. That's how it should be. A non-issue.
It's exactly what I do. It's not an agenda. I'm not trying to convince them of anything. I'm not deciding their needs.
I'm getting an idea of how much they know about certain aspects of Apple's practices.
I have an Honor 50 and an Honor 10. I still have the Honor 7 which works fine.
LOL!
There's your agenda again...
Well, the Honor 50 is a nice upgrade for you. Sad that Honor can't generate much in the way of profits on that. Probably why you have an agenda wrt Apple iPhone.
There is no 'agenda'.
'Profits' are not a measure of much from a consumer perspective. What counts (for smartphones) is the value of what is in your hand.
When was the last time you bought something and wondered if the manufacturer was getting enough profit out of the sale?
Am I to imagine an Apple retail store filled with consumers on their knees begging to pay more?
If sales are driving the business to move forward with enough profits to reinvest in the product, we are all happy campers.
tmay said: Do we really want the EU designing phones that are built overseas? Probably not.
If the phone you describe is so desirable, how about the EU fund its manufacture, in the EU? Would it be cost effective, and would it sell?
Okay, let's do exactly that.
We'll fund its manufacture by allowing sales to generate about $50 billion in revenue every year.
Deal?
Absolutely.
I'd love to see the EU get into the phone business, again, even if I'd still be inclined to purchase an iPhone, just as I would like the EU to keep building vehicles in the likelihood that China is going to flood the market with EV's. The EU might want to do something about that.
Oh, and I will keep delaying upgrade until I see USB Type C on the iPhone; because my iPhone 7, which was a refurb that I got from the Apple Store when my iPhone 5 had an expanded battery, is still viable.
Comments
Apple might well be able to sidestep a lot of regulations by making users sign off explicitly on those terms before purchase.
Do you think Apple would be that transparent to its users? Or would they back away from such a move for fear of lost sales?
Do we really want the EU designing phones that are built overseas? Probably not.
If the phone you describe is so desirable, how about the EU fund its manufacture, in the EU? Would it be cost effective, and would it sell?
The phone you describe is not needed, and would meet with little demand in the rest of the world, such is the longevity and reliability of the devices that are already in service.
Frankly, disallowing the major manufacturers from building devices, for the most part, as they see fit, would only hamstring the industry, and ultimately the consumer.
I'm confident that the vast majority of iPhone users have little to no knowledge of these issues.
I make a point of asking users I run into. No one has ever shown even a basic understanding of what is going on.
These laws are there for consumers, competition and the environment.
Seriously, you would get a similar reaction if you pointed out the limitations with Android OS, and yes, there are many limitations with Android OS, or whatever Huawei is pushing for that matter.
It is what it is and I made no attempt to sell it for more than that.
It's real in my circle. That's all.
Give it a go yourself.
As for consumer satisfaction. That does not disprove anything because we are not talking about satisfaction, but knowledge.
Of course you would. You are well known for having an agenda here, so we would be safe in assuming that you have an agenda in the real world.
Me; it's none of my fucking business what phones people use or why they use them, unless they specifically ask for my opinion, but I'm certainly not going to be a dick and question them as you did.
The irony of all this is that you and I both are likely using the same phones, today as when you showed up here on AI. Me, an iPhone 7, and you, an Honor 10. Neither of us is in a position to decide someone else's needs based on our experience with these obsolete devices.
So people can specifically ask you things and you have no issue with it. That's how it should be. A non-issue.
It's exactly what I do. It's not an agenda. I'm not trying to convince them of anything. I'm not deciding their needs.
I'm getting an idea of how much they know about certain aspects of Apple's practices.
I have an Honor 50 and an Honor 10. I still have the Honor 7 which works fine.
There's your agenda again...
Well, the Honor 50 is a nice upgrade for you. Sad that Honor can't generate much in the way of profits on that. Probably why you have an agenda wrt Apple iPhone.
I'm becoming disillusioned with Apple for not fighting back. Every time the EU asks for something, Apple hands it over. Next, the EU will demand that Apples' App Store not be the default app store. And Apple will cave. Then the EU will ask for iMessage to fully support RCS. And Apple will cave. This will be Tim Cook's legacy: caving.
Google and Facebook fight governments better than Apple does.
'Profits' are not a measure of much from a consumer perspective. What counts (for smartphones) is the value of what is in your hand.
When was the last time you bought something and wondered if the manufacturer was getting enough profit out of the sale?
Am I to imagine an Apple retail store filled with consumers on their knees begging to pay more?
If sales are driving the business to move forward with enough profits to reinvest in the product, we are all happy campers.
How much profit is pretty much irrelevant.
We'll fund its manufacture by allowing sales to generate about $50 billion in revenue every year.
Deal?
I'd love to see the EU get into the phone business, again, even if I'd still be inclined to purchase an iPhone, just as I would like the EU to keep building vehicles in the likelihood that China is going to flood the market with EV's. The EU might want to do something about that.
Oh, and I will keep delaying upgrade until I see USB Type C on the iPhone; because my iPhone 7, which was a refurb that I got from the Apple Store when my iPhone 5 had an expanded battery, is still viable.
Maybe that will be the iPhone 15.