New EU regulations mandate user-replaceable batteries in Apple products

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 91
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,388moderator

    Regulations approved by the European Council now mandate that companies, including Apple, must ensure that batteries in the iPhone and other products are replaceable by users.

    The new regulation applies to all batteries, encompassing waste portable batteries, electric vehicle batteries, industrial batteries, and batteries used for light transport, such as electric bikes, e-mopeds, and e-scooters. It's designed to address the environmental impact of batteries at every stage of their life cycle.

    These regulations are anticipated to affect companies like Apple, which market battery-powered products within the EU. However, it is expected that Apple, along with other companies, will resist the implementation of these regulations.

    The document says that as long as batteries meet certain durability requirements, they wouldn't have to be user-replaceable:

    https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/PE-2-2023-INIT/en/pdf

    "For batteries that are incorporated in mobile phones and tablets it is appropriate to set performance and durability requirements regarding those batteries through a future eco-design regulation addressing phones and tablets and to update Commission Regulation (EU) No 617/20131 on computers and computer servers. For other portable batteries that are incorporated in other appliances, such as gardening tools or cordless power tools, the possibility of setting minimum performance and durability requirements should be addressed in relevant product legal acts"

    "SLI batteries and electric vehicle batteries that are incorporated in motor vehicles should be removable and replaceable by independent professionals."

    It would be nice if they designed them this way though such as putting the battery in a case. I've had a couple of iPhones where the battery expanded and buckled the screen. People are attaching magnetic batteries to the back. Instead you'd just pick the case with the size of battery needed and it can power the phone wirelessly. When the battery is removed/swapped, it would go into standby mode.
    pscooter63roundaboutnowtenthousandthingsdarkvader
  • Reply 22 of 91
    ralphieralphie Posts: 108member
    bsd228 said:
    twolf2919 said:
    red oak said:
    Its not a “significant win for consumers”,   Implementing this can lead to less water and dust proofing, heavier devices,  and less overall quality uni-body build 
      I don't think most people would notice/care if their device was 8-10mm instead of 6-7mm thick.

    On the positive side, you'd get painless swapping of batteries.  Many folks bring along spare power banks on trips.  Now you'd have the option of simply attaching a 'fat' battery to your mobile.
    10mm is 67% thicker than 6mm.   People would notice, unless they never had 6mm devices in the first place.  Ignorance is bliss.

    With the way I abuse my phone in daily use, I don't see the ability to change the battery as a need - I've trashed it long before battery capacity is compromised.   But for the tablets and laptops, more interest.  Or the consumer electronics with smaller, usually lower quality batteries, much more interest.  
    Nice spin, but 8mm is only 14% thicker than 7mm. No one will care.
    edited July 2023 williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingamdarkvader
  • Reply 23 of 91
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,863member
    seneca72 said:
    Generally speaking I'm a supporter of the EU but this regarding batteries is plain daft.  For some items replacement will be relatively simple but others such as cars where the battery is a structural element are definitely not user replaceable.

    Wonder how long it will be before the EU mandates that Apple must allow users to install Android on iPhones.  
    The grace period is specifically for manufacturers to adapt designs. 

    For daft decisions, look no further than designs that deliberately make repair and/or accessibility a PITA. 


    muthuk_vanalingamAlex_Vdarkvader
  • Reply 24 of 91
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,863member
    If the EU really wants the battery components recycled, then why would they want to allow users to replace the battery? The user is the wild card that they don't have any control over. Do they really think individual users are more likely to recycle the batteries properly than Apple? 
    Absolutely. 

    It is illegal to dump e-waste and free to recycle. 

    Yes, there are idiots all over the place and some will just dump things anyway but those are the folks who would dump the whole device - battery included. 
  • Reply 25 of 91
    ralphieralphie Posts: 108member
    avon b7 said:
    If the EU really wants the battery components recycled, then why would they want to allow users to replace the battery? The user is the wild card that they don't have any control over. Do they really think individual users are more likely to recycle the batteries properly than Apple? 
    Absolutely. 

    It is illegal to dump e-waste and free to recycle. 

    Yes, there are idiots all over the place and some will just dump things anyway but those are the folks who would dump the whole device - battery included. 
    Likely be an e-waste recycling fee attached to the device and replacement batteries like there is in most jurisdictions (we have it on tires, any device with an LCD screen over certain size, etc).
    edited July 2023
  • Reply 26 of 91
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,863member
    ralphie said:
    avon b7 said:
    If the EU really wants the battery components recycled, then why would they want to allow users to replace the battery? The user is the wild card that they don't have any control over. Do they really think individual users are more likely to recycle the batteries properly than Apple? 
    Absolutely. 

    It is illegal to dump e-waste and free to recycle. 

    Yes, there are idiots all over the place and some will just dump things anyway but those are the folks who would dump the whole device - battery included. 
    avon b7 said:
    If the EU really wants the battery components recycled, then why would they want to allow users to replace the battery? The user is the wild card that they don't have any control over. Do they really think individual users are more likely to recycle the batteries properly than Apple? 
    Absolutely. 

    It is illegal to dump e-waste and free to recycle. 

    Yes, there are idiots all over the place and some will just dump things anyway but those are the folks who would dump the whole device - battery included. 
    Likely be an e-waste recycling fee attached to the device and replacement batteries like there is in most jurisdictions (we have it on tires, any device with an LCD screen over certain size, etc).
    No. There is no fee at all. 

    Well, that isn't technically true. There actually is a fee. 

    It is included in the purchase price of all electrical and electronic devices covered by the Were directive. You pay for it upfront. 

    The upshot is that it is supremely easy to get devices back upstream and won't cost you a penny. 


  • Reply 27 of 91
    SkepticalSkeptical Posts: 183member
    red oak said:
    Its not a “significant win for consumers”,   Implementing this can lead to less water and dust proofing, heavier devices,  and less overall quality uni-body build 
    Sucks having first world problems huh?
  • Reply 28 of 91
    jdgazjdgaz Posts: 405member
    Heck, I have to take my battery powered watches to. Jeweler to change a battery. Is the EU going to fix that non-problem as well?
  • Reply 29 of 91
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,872moderator
    twolf2919 said:
    red oak said:
    Its not a “significant win for consumers”,   Implementing this can lead to less water and dust proofing, heavier devices,  and less overall quality uni-body build 
    Completely agree that this might be an outcome.  But I do wonder whether it's necessarily the case: shouldn't it be possible to completely externalize the battery and have it provide power to the device wirelessly?  As we all know most phones, over the past few years, can be charged wirelessly - couldn't that same concept be adopted for powering the device instead?  This way the water and dust proofing problem would be eliminated and the 'quality of uni-body build' would not suffer either.  The device would be a tad heavier and thicker, but that can surely be minimized.  I don't think most people would notice/care if their device was 8-10mm instead of 6-7mm thick.

    On the positive side, you'd get painless swapping of batteries.  Many folks bring along spare power banks on trips.  Now you'd have the option of simply attaching a 'fat' battery to your mobile.
    This is the first thing that popped into my mind upon reading this article.  Just remove the internal battery from iPhones destined for the EU and make each user buy the MagSafe power pack.  Europeans can redesign pants pockets to accommodate the extra thickness.  

    But on a serious note, this would make the device less power efficient as there are losses associated with wireless [inductive] power transfer.  Maybe better to have a few electrical contacts on the outside of the phone that a MagSafe battery connects to, but that has its own issues with shorts from getting the connection dirty or wet.  But I do like the idea of inconveniencing Europeans sufficient to get them to rally against EU heavy-handedness.  
    edited July 2023
  • Reply 30 of 91
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,872moderator
    avon b7 said:
    red oak said:
    Its not a “significant win for consumers”,   Implementing this can lead to less water and dust proofing, heavier devices,  and less overall quality uni-body build 
    It's a massive win all round. 

    There was never any reason water and dust proofing had to be done the way the industry went about it. 

    Nano coatings have been around for years and have been specifically designed for waterproofing. 

    It's also worth challenging the very notion of waterproofing on a device not designed for regular immersion use, as made clear by the warranty of the device not even guaranteeing waterproofing and falling back onto a IP rating that 'should' suffice for the rated level of protection. Splash resistance is all that is really necessary for the vast majority of users.

    If a device is actually designed to spend most of its usage time in water, there is a provision for that:

    "To ensure the safety of end-users, this Regulation should provide for a limited derogation for portable batteries from the removability and replaceability requirements set for portable 
    batteries concerning appliances that incorporate portable batteries and that are specifically designed to be used, for the majority of the active service of the appliance, in an environment that is regularly subject to splashing water, water streams or water immersion and that are intended to be washable or rinseable. This derogation should only apply when it is not possible, by way of redesign of the appliance, to ensure the safety of the end-user and the safe continued use of the appliance after the end-user has correctly followed the instructions to remove and replace the battery. Where the derogation applies, the product should be designed in such a way as to make the battery removable and replaceable only by independent professionals, and not by end-users."

    The 'quality vs accessibility' argument is not really the best way to evaluate the situation. Batteries should be easily replaceable and designers should be working to achieving that goal.

    In fact many parts of modern phones should be easily replaceable, even for qualified technicians. The less time needed to perform a repair and the less good components that need replacing, the better, so now the industry should be moving towards design for repair too. 

    Good to see something as simple as information getting some support too. Users should have simple, clear access to what type of battery they have in the phone. 
    I’m so much looking forward to your solution for the Apple Watch.  /s
    williamlondon
  • Reply 31 of 91
    Yup, I came here to say what others have said — externalise the battery. Use a MagSafe battery of whatever size you like. When disconnected, a super capacitor would maintain standby for a while.

    edit: I ain’t supporting the stupid EU idea, just supporting a little, Think Different.
    edited July 2023
  • Reply 32 of 91
    seanjseanj Posts: 318member
    Typical over-regulation by the EU, this is unnecessary to achieve a circular economy. Simply having the battery replaceable, eg by taking it to the Apple Store, is sufficient. It’s not as though you need to change the battery every few weeks.

    So glad we left that bureaucratic nightmare. 
    radarthekat
  • Reply 33 of 91
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,872moderator
    Marvin said:

    Regulations approved by the European Council now mandate that companies, including Apple, must ensure that batteries in the iPhone and other products are replaceable by users.

    The new regulation applies to all batteries, encompassing waste portable batteries, electric vehicle batteries, industrial batteries, and batteries used for light transport, such as electric bikes, e-mopeds, and e-scooters. It's designed to address the environmental impact of batteries at every stage of their life cycle.

    These regulations are anticipated to affect companies like Apple, which market battery-powered products within the EU. However, it is expected that Apple, along with other companies, will resist the implementation of these regulations.

    The document says that as long as batteries meet certain durability requirements, they wouldn't have to be user-replaceable:

    https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/PE-2-2023-INIT/en/pdf

    "For batteries that are incorporated in mobile phones and tablets it is appropriate to set performance and durability requirements regarding those batteries through a future eco-design regulation addressing phones and tablets and to update Commission Regulation (EU) No 617/20131 on computers and computer servers. For other portable batteries that are incorporated in other appliances, such as gardening tools or cordless power tools, the possibility of setting minimum performance and durability requirements should be addressed in relevant product legal acts"

    "SLI batteries and electric vehicle batteries that are incorporated in motor vehicles should be removable and replaceable by independent professionals."

    It would be nice if they designed them this way though such as putting the battery in a case. I've had a couple of iPhones where the battery expanded and buckled the screen. People are attaching magnetic batteries to the back. Instead you'd just pick the case with the size of battery needed and it can power the phone wirelessly. When the battery is removed/swapped, it would go into standby mode.
    Wireless is a bad solution; there’s losses and that means more coal fired power plants to achieve the same amount of compute. 
  • Reply 34 of 91
    it applies to all phones a great win for consumers one of the only componenets to degrade is the battery and now u can replace it 
    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 35 of 91
    MSCMSC Posts: 1member
    I don't mind Apples approach as it keeps the phone thin and sealed and a lot of people trade in or sell their phone after a few years and get a new one before the battery needs replacing.  For those that keep for awhile and may swap out the battery themselves?  I would bet a majority would just throw the old battery in the garbage which defeats the purpose of this whole ruling.  At least if you go to apple for a new battery they properly recycle it.  Seems like a pretty dumb ruling for the supposed purpose.  
    radarthekat
  • Reply 36 of 91
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,377member
    What is the skill level requirement here of the user that can replace the battery?

    There is a vast range of skill and confidence here not sure some vague blanket requirement for a "user" is good enough. Should my Mum be able to replace the battery even thou she has keen and willing Grandkids who can repair most current phones on the market. Yet a battery Mum could replace would likely fall out more than it ever needs to be actually replaced. 
    tmay
  • Reply 37 of 91
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,388moderator
    Marvin said:

    Regulations approved by the European Council now mandate that companies, including Apple, must ensure that batteries in the iPhone and other products are replaceable by users.

    The new regulation applies to all batteries, encompassing waste portable batteries, electric vehicle batteries, industrial batteries, and batteries used for light transport, such as electric bikes, e-mopeds, and e-scooters. It's designed to address the environmental impact of batteries at every stage of their life cycle.

    These regulations are anticipated to affect companies like Apple, which market battery-powered products within the EU. However, it is expected that Apple, along with other companies, will resist the implementation of these regulations.

    The document says that as long as batteries meet certain durability requirements, they wouldn't have to be user-replaceable:

    https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/PE-2-2023-INIT/en/pdf

    "For batteries that are incorporated in mobile phones and tablets it is appropriate to set performance and durability requirements regarding those batteries through a future eco-design regulation addressing phones and tablets and to update Commission Regulation (EU) No 617/20131 on computers and computer servers. For other portable batteries that are incorporated in other appliances, such as gardening tools or cordless power tools, the possibility of setting minimum performance and durability requirements should be addressed in relevant product legal acts"

    "SLI batteries and electric vehicle batteries that are incorporated in motor vehicles should be removable and replaceable by independent professionals."

    It would be nice if they designed them this way though such as putting the battery in a case. I've had a couple of iPhones where the battery expanded and buckled the screen. People are attaching magnetic batteries to the back. Instead you'd just pick the case with the size of battery needed and it can power the phone wirelessly. When the battery is removed/swapped, it would go into standby mode.
    Wireless is a bad solution; there’s losses and that means more coal fired power plants to achieve the same amount of compute. 
    This is partly due to the charging standard used and the distance. For internal proprietary connections, it can be much better. There are researchers saying they can get 97% wireless efficiency:

    https://www.ornl.gov/news/hands-free-wireless-charging-system-advances-electric-vehicle-convenience

    "The researchers have successfully demonstrated a 120-kW wireless charging system with 97% efficiency, and are planning to install higher voltage systems, up to 270-kW, on passenger vehicles to meet or exceed the 15-minute charging goal.

    The research is supported by the DOE Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy’s Vehicle Technologies Office."

    They could use electrical contacts for an external battery but it would be more durable and easier to waterproof with some kind of induction.
    edited July 2023
  • Reply 38 of 91
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,889member
    The level to which governments are attempting (and succeeding) to drill down to the operational level of various companies is astounding. It’s not up to the government to decide how a product is built, what ports it has, etc. 

    That’s wild. That’s like Russia, China, etc. Communism. Just say no. 

    Personally, I prefer the iPhone to have USB C instead of lightning and I wish all my Apple products featured a user replaceable battery. So I don’t disagree with these things on that principle. But for a government to step in where a company has broken no law and impose product direction, manufacturing design, and even remove competitive and profit differentiators, it’s a step too far. Need to rein it in. The EU especially is a bit of a multi-headed monster these days. 
  • Reply 39 of 91
    jdgaz said:
    Heck, I have to take my battery powered watches to. Jeweler to change a battery. Is the EU going to fix that non-problem as well?
    Why do you need to take a battery powered watch to the jeweler to change the battery? I would think the only type of watch that needs to be repaired or maintained by an expert would be one with mechanical action.
    williamlondon9secondkox2Alex_V
  • Reply 40 of 91
    mattinoz said:
    What is the skill level requirement here of the user that can replace the battery?

    There is a vast range of skill and confidence here not sure some vague blanket requirement for a "user" is good enough. Should my Mum be able to replace the battery even thou she has keen and willing Grandkids who can repair most current phones on the market. Yet a battery Mum could replace would likely fall out more than it ever needs to be actually replaced. 
    I would think that anyone with reasonably good eyesight and motor skills should be able to change most batteries.
    williamlondon
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