Twitter loses half its ad revenue, still weighed down by debt

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 52
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,820member
    I've never had more beautiful, eligible young women following me than since the takeover. I hadn't even altered my 60s year old looking profile pic and I don't have a blue tick mark. Must be my (very) hidden charm coming to the surface.
    sphericAlex_Vronnwatto_cobraJaiOh81
  • Reply 22 of 52
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,900member
    Elon has done well with Tesla and SpaceX but those were primarily tech companies. Twitter is a social media company - what makes a good social media company is different from what makes a good tech company. Elon is also not necessarily the same person he was when he was building Tesla and SpaceX. The bottom line is his prior successes do not guarantee he has the skill set to make Twitter successful.

    Many people like to quote Elon's saying "move fast and break things." That works in some areas but in Twitter's case the main thing he broke was its revenue stream. If you're building a ship on shore you can fix what you break. If you're out to sea and you break the hull you've got some issues. Beyond that, Elon & Twitter have been slow to fix what they've broken. The approach seems to be trade a small problem for a bigger problem then move on.

    Things were not all wine and roses but Twitter was doing OK but had its issues when Elon bought it. After purchasing he proceeded to make a series of changes that were universally considered to be ill-advised and poorly thought out. Even the changes that had potentially positive elements were poorly executed. The result has been the destruction of Twitter's reputation, image, with that it advertisers and revenue base.

    What's quite interesting that the people who are optimistic about Twitter's potential with Elon's leadership have little more to say than "well, he did good with Tesla and SpaceX so that's proof that he knows what he's doing!" we're 9 months into this debacle and while the bull has stopped (or at least slowed down) knocking over shelves, he's still in the china shop and the mess still remains. 

    Twitter had a very commanding position in social media. It was the social media platform and not just by a little. Its market dominance was astounding. Further, it had become a trusted, relied upon platform for many companies to make news and press releases. Even now most people have a hard time naming another significant platform. What that means for companies is they may decide to stay on Twitter simply because even with its faults and issues there's not a better choice. That also means Twitter still has a chance. The bull may have done a lot of damage but the china shop was big enough that it still has wares to sell and can potentially turn itself around. As long as the bull sits down and shuts up.

    muthuk_vanalingamdewmewilliamlondonronnFileMakerFellerbaconstangwatto_cobrastompy
  • Reply 23 of 52
    MplsP said:
    Elon has done well with Tesla and SpaceX but those were primarily tech companies. Twitter is a social media company - what makes a good social media company is different from what makes a good tech company. Elon is also not necessarily the same person he was when he was building Tesla and SpaceX. The bottom line is his prior successes do not guarantee he has the skill set to make Twitter successful.

    Many people like to quote Elon's saying "move fast and break things." That works in some areas but in Twitter's case the main thing he broke was its revenue stream. If you're building a ship on shore you can fix what you break. If you're out to sea and you break the hull you've got some issues. Beyond that, Elon & Twitter have been slow to fix what they've broken. The approach seems to be trade a small problem for a bigger problem then move on.

    Things were not all wine and roses but Twitter was doing OK but had its issues when Elon bought it. After purchasing he proceeded to make a series of changes that were universally considered to be ill-advised and poorly thought out. Even the changes that had potentially positive elements were poorly executed. The result has been the destruction of Twitter's reputation, image, with that it advertisers and revenue base.

    What's quite interesting that the people who are optimistic about Twitter's potential with Elon's leadership have little more to say than "well, he did good with Tesla and SpaceX so that's proof that he knows what he's doing!" we're 9 months into this debacle and while the bull has stopped (or at least slowed down) knocking over shelves, he's still in the china shop and the mess still remains. 

    Twitter had a very commanding position in social media. It was the social media platform and not just by a little. Its market dominance was astounding. Further, it had become a trusted, relied upon platform for many companies to make news and press releases. Even now most people have a hard time naming another significant platform. What that means for companies is they may decide to stay on Twitter simply because even with its faults and issues there's not a better choice. That also means Twitter still has a chance. The bull may have done a lot of damage but the china shop was big enough that it still has wares to sell and can potentially turn itself around. As long as the bull sits down and shuts up.

    Mark Zuckerberg said "Move fast break things" not Elon Musk. I guess it's yet another case of Musk getting credit for something he didn't do, par for the course. Based on his tenure at twitter it would seem Musk is more a "break things fast" kind of person. 

    Also, Twitter isn't a dominate social media market.  Facebook has 2.96 billion users, YouTube has 2.53 billion users, Whats App has 2 billion, Instagram has 2 billion all of which are more significant that twitter. Twitter ranks 19th with 450 million. It has done very well in certain areas, journalists, politicians, academics and celebrities have very much thrived on twitter but for the average person it isn't a huge deal hence why most people don't use it. 
    tmaysphericwilliamlondonmuthuk_vanalingamretrogustoarlorronnwatto_cobradav
  • Reply 24 of 52
    ITGUYINSDITGUYINSD Posts: 509member
    mygig said:
    So according to the comments, it was a sinking ship destined to doom in a couple weeks, that it won’t have any staff to run it, to now, that it will sink eventually? So if it doesn’t, then it will be the success of the new CEO?
    Give me a break. He does and says stupid shit from time to time - true, but he never loses. The platform is a much more fun place to be right now and I bet you my iPad that it won’t fail 😉 
    Reminds me of someone else who is drowing in legal issues now.  I've no horse in the Twitter race as it has zero value to me, but just wondering what has changed that makes it a "more fun place to be right now"?


    tmaysphericretrogustoAlex_Vronnbaconstangwatto_cobrastompy
  • Reply 25 of 52
    jfabula1 said:
    The previous owners of Twitter must be laughing their asses off.
    That’s what this legacy car makers are doing when Mask started Tesla, who’s laughing now??
    The legacy car makers. For example: Geely and Maruti Suzuki still sell more vehicles than Tesla. 
    tmayStabitha_Christiesphericwilliamlondonretrogustofreeassociate2ronndavstompy
  • Reply 26 of 52
    mayflymayfly Posts: 385member
    Well, at least what's happening with Twitter is no longer boring. It's like watching a train wreck. You may feel a bit guilty for your schadenfreude, but you just can't look away.
    tmayStabitha_ChristiesphericwilliamlondonretrogustoAlex_VronnFileMakerFellerbaconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 52
    harry wildharry wild Posts: 806member
    • Elon Musk is under attacked to by Powers To Be.  Elon will find away to get Twitter a net profitable company.  After all, he was forced in to buy Twitter by the court!
    mayfly
  • Reply 28 of 52
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,941member
    Let’s not forget that this started with Mr. Musk talking sh** for some mixture of reasons including ego and his desire to loosen Twitter’s policies regarding restrictions on the spread of disinformation. Musk talked a big game about purchasing Twitter for a ridiculous sum of money, sure that such a bluff would demonstrate his masculinity while pushing Twitter’s execs around in public. 

    Then they called his bluff. Musk shouldn’t have forgotten that a ridiculous liquidation payout is always a goal for Silicon Valley execs. He then found out that financial rules and contract law made his threats far less idle than he’d intended. 

    Suddenly Twitter’s execs had way more of Musk’s money than a serious purchase negotiation would have ever yielded, and he was a little dog latched on to the back bumper of a fantastically overvalued Twitter Pinto. 

    Of course, a narcissist’s ego disallows admission of ego-based errors, so Musk doubled down and walked into Twitter HQ with a sink, to indicate the seriousness of his plans to manage a company he’d had no plans to own. The rest has gone about as well as any objective observer would expect. 
    williamlondontmaymuthuk_vanalingamsphericdewmeAlex_VronnFileMakerFellerbaconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 52
    eriamjheriamjh Posts: 1,620member
    Never shed a tear for a billionaire losing a few billions.  

    Musk needs a failure to teach him he’s not infallible.   Jobs had this when he was ousted and failed at Next.  He came back humble and focused.  

    Musk needs to fail.  Twitter isn’t really technical like Tesla is.  It’s just fucking software.  It’s getting paid because you gather advertisers to your members.  

    Piss people off and alienate the wrong people and face the consequences of it.  Free speech becomes hate speech when you can hide behind the internet.   In public, there’s shame when others disagree.  There’s a sense of knowing you’re wrong when someone calls you out.  Not so on Twitter.  

    So bwahahaha, Elon.  Learn how to fail.  Maybe it will help him improve.  
    retrogustoAlex_Vbaconstangwatto_cobradav
  • Reply 30 of 52
    XedXed Posts: 2,480member
    eriamjh said:
    Never shed a tear for a billionaire losing a few billions.  

    Musk needs a failure to teach him he’s not infallible.   Jobs had this when he was ousted and failed at Next.  He came back humble and focused.  

    Musk needs to fail.  Twitter isn’t really technical like Tesla is.  It’s just fucking software.  It’s getting paid because you gather advertisers to your members.  

    Piss people off and alienate the wrong people and face the consequences of it.  Free speech becomes hate speech when you can hide behind the internet.   In public, there’s shame when others disagree.  There’s a sense of knowing you’re wrong when someone calls you out.  Not so on Twitter.  

    So bwahahaha, Elon.  Learn how to fail.  Maybe it will help him improve.  
    I agree that Jobs learned some hard lessons after being ousted by Apple , but did NeXT really fail? Despite NeXT being hamstrung by Apple, it was Apple that did adopt NeXTSTEP for their OS, which became macOS (nee Mac OS X) which is also the basis for the success of iOS, iPadOS, tvOS, watchOS, and soon to be visionOS.

    I don't believe Apple would be here today if they had gone another route without NeXT Computer or Steve Jobs. Then we have Tim Berners-Lee using it to develop the first web browser and the very rules in which I'm typing this message right now.

    I would love to have such a wonderful "failure" under my belt as NeXT Computer.
    dewmewilliamlondonwatto_cobraMplsPdavstompy
  • Reply 31 of 52
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,530member
    AppleZulu said:
    Let’s not forget that this started with Mr. Musk talking sh** for some mixture of reasons including ego and his desire to loosen Twitter’s policies regarding restrictions on the spread of disinformation. Musk talked a big game about purchasing Twitter for a ridiculous sum of money, sure that such a bluff would demonstrate his masculinity while pushing Twitter’s execs around in public. 

    Then they called his bluff. Musk shouldn’t have forgotten that a ridiculous liquidation payout is always a goal for Silicon Valley execs. He then found out that financial rules and contract law made his threats far less idle than he’d intended. 

    Suddenly Twitter’s execs had way more of Musk’s money than a serious purchase negotiation would have ever yielded, and he was a little dog latched on to the back bumper of a fantastically overvalued Twitter Pinto. 

    Of course, a narcissist’s ego disallows admission of ego-based errors, so Musk doubled down and walked into Twitter HQ with a sink, to indicate the seriousness of his plans to manage a company he’d had no plans to own. The rest has gone about as well as any objective observer would expect. 

    This, exactly. 

    Everybody who was actually watching it happen at the time (and didn't just jump into the fray after it became clear that firing the moderators meant a right-wing freeeeee-for-all) saw exactly this happening. 

    It was utterly ridiculous, and it's kind of delicious to see his new-found fans retroactively frame this total turd-walk as a major WIN, when everything about it was laughably stupid, from the first dope-addled dare he tweeted. 
    tmayAlex_VronnFileMakerFellerbaconstangwatto_cobradavstompy
  • Reply 32 of 52
    retrogustoretrogusto Posts: 1,104member
    • Elon Musk is under attacked to by Powers To Be.  Elon will find away to get Twitter a net profitable company.  After all, he was forced in to buy Twitter by the court!
    Not sure if you’re being sarcastic, but the court only forced him to fulfill the commitment he made, it didn’t force him to commit in the first place. 
    tmaywilliamlondonmuthuk_vanalingamsphericAlex_VronnFileMakerFellerbaconstangwatto_cobraMplsP
  • Reply 33 of 52
    wonkothesanewonkothesane Posts: 1,716member
    ajohn said:
    Can someone explain to me how Elon Musk buys Twitter but Twitter somehow inherits the debt? I’m very confused. 

    Can I also go out and buy a business but not have to be the one paying for it? 
    Phantastic shite, no? But capitalism can do much nicer tricks: https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/ponzi-hospitals-and-counterfeit-capitalism
    edited July 2023 watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 52
    mayflymayfly Posts: 385member
    ajohn said:
    Can someone explain to me how Elon Musk buys Twitter but Twitter somehow inherits the debt? I’m very confused. 

    Can I also go out and buy a business but not have to be the one paying for it? 
    Business 101: It's how every private takeover happens. Instead of paying cash, the buyer (Musk in this case) uses what is called a "leveraged" buyout. Meaning exchanging shareholder equity for cash, which the buyer borrows from a bank, or banks, or VC's or angel investors. Since the new private entity (Twitter) is still a corporation, the buyer's personal assets are indemnified from the debts of the corporation, unless he pledges some of them as collateral.
    ronnFileMakerFellerwatto_cobrastompy
  • Reply 35 of 52
    mayflymayfly Posts: 385member
    • Elon Musk is under attacked to by Powers To Be.  Elon will find away to get Twitter a net profitable company.  After all, he was forced in to buy Twitter by the court!

    Not even Elon Musk believes that. No court ordered him to sign a contract to buy Twitter. He just didn't want to pay the "buyer's remorse" fine.

    Alex_VronnFileMakerFellermuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobradav
  • Reply 36 of 52
    The previous owners of Twitter must be laughing their asses off.
    The previous owners of Twitter are busy figuring out how to create the next disinformation center of the world. Twitter was never about money, and still isn't.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 52
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,530member
    The previous owners of Twitter must be laughing their asses off.
    The previous owners of Twitter are busy figuring out how to create the next disinformation center of the world. Twitter was never about money, and still isn't.
    Musk is showing them: create a successful and respected dissemination platform. 

    Then remove all protection against scammers, bots, and fake news factories. 

    Presto!
    Alex_VronnFileMakerFellerbaconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 52
    arlorarlor Posts: 532member
    MplsP said:

    Many people like to quote Elon's saying "move fast and break things." That works in some areas but in Twitter's case the main thing he broke was its revenue stream. If you're building a ship on shore you can fix what you break. If you're out to sea and you break the hull you've got some issues. Beyond that, Elon & Twitter have been slow to fix what they've broken. The approach seems to be trade a small problem for a bigger problem then move on.

    Though I agree with much of what you've said, ironically it was Zuckerberg who coined the phrase "move fast and break things."

    To Zuckerberg's credit, he revised that to "move fast with stable infrastructure" later (2014). Musk must have missed the update. 
    edited July 2023 muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobraMplsP
  • Reply 39 of 52
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,705member
    jpellino said:
    So Twitter was the preeminent microblogging platform, doing well enough to have shareholders getting earnings.
    Musk buys it and starts pulling every lever he can find, many of which were clearly marked DO NOT TOUCH THIS LEVER.
    Now the company is bleeding value, invisible to the public, and got its lunch eaten by Meta in less than a week of competition. 
    Oh, and a new half-billion liability based on Lever #2.
    Remind me how this reflects on the legendary genius of Musk?

    You ain’t seen nothing yet by the end of the decade, the US will be the only area of the world where Tesla will have any significant marketshare, Japan, South Korea, and China will be but footnotes, Europe, in the end will be single digits Because of the German companies and the rest of the world aside from Australia, and New Zealand quite simply just can’t afford them. 

    Also, note the fit and finish still is crap, (that old CNC dealership location next to the 210 freeway in Upland, California is now occupied by Tesla‘s and they seem to be fixing a lot of new Tesla‘s direct from the factory at this location before shipping them to the new owners), the early adopters still don’t care, but the second and third wave adopters will, particularly with more choices for sale by competitors, and these competitors will have Apple CarPlay and Android CarPlay, and it does make a difference.
    mayflyronntmaywatto_cobradav
  • Reply 40 of 52
    mayflymayfly Posts: 385member
    danox said:
    jpellino said:
    So Twitter was the preeminent microblogging platform, doing well enough to have shareholders getting earnings.
    Musk buys it and starts pulling every lever he can find, many of which were clearly marked DO NOT TOUCH THIS LEVER.
    Now the company is bleeding value, invisible to the public, and got its lunch eaten by Meta in less than a week of competition. 
    Oh, and a new half-billion liability based on Lever #2.
    Remind me how this reflects on the legendary genius of Musk?

    You ain’t seen nothing yet by the end of the decade, the US will be the only area of the world where Tesla will have any significant marketshare, Japan, South Korea, and China will be but footnotes, Europe, in the end will be single digits Because of the German companies and the rest of the world aside from Australia, and New Zealand quite simply just can’t afford them. 

    Also, note the fit and finish still is crap, (that old CNC dealership location next to the 210 freeway in Upland, California is now occupied by Tesla‘s and they seem to be fixing a lot of new Tesla‘s direct from the factory at this location before shipping them to the new owners), the early adopters still don’t care, but the second and third wave adopters will, particularly with more choices for sale by competitors, and these competitors will have Apple CarPlay and Android CarPlay, and it does make a difference.
    You're certainly correct that Tesla Motors will be a tiny niche presence. But probably not because foreign customers can't afford them. Tesla's future is subject to the old axiom, success breeds imitation. They were first out the gate, but all established automakers in America, Japan, Germany, South Korea and China are working on their Tesla killers. And they have way more capacity, both collectively and individually.
    tmaybaconstangwatto_cobra
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