Google says a joint Bluetooth tracker misuse standard is waiting on Apple

Posted:
in AirTag edited July 2023

An interoperable Bluetooth tracker abuse prevention system was expected to roll out by the end of 2023, and a post from Google on Thursday seemingly points the finger at Apple as to why it hasn't arrived yet.

An AirTag and its battery
An AirTag won't track anybody, if the battery is removed.



A new "Find My Device Network" was proposed earlier in 2023, and a joint standard draft has already been released. However, Google says that it is waiting on Apple for the roll-out of a wider system.

"At this time we've made the decision to hold the rollout of the Find My Device network until Apple has implemented protections for iOS," Google said in a post.

Given that the spec is supposed to remain open for comment and addition through mid-August, it's not clear why Google has chosen to single out Apple in this particular manner.

Interoperability between Bluetooth trackers is coming, but when is the question



On May 2, 2023, Apple and Google jointly submitted a proposed industry specification for what will be part of Google's "Find My Device Network." That standard will eventually allow Bluetooth location tracking devices to be compatible with unauthorized tracking detection systems and alerts across both iOS and Android.

Tracking devices rely on specific device ecosystems to work, such as iPhones and the Find My network for AirTag. However, notifications are also device-dependent, so iPhone users will see anti-stalking notifications if an extra AirTag is in their bag, but an Android device wouldn't, other than occasional beeps from the AirTag itself.



The standard is intended to make iPhone and Android users both get the warnings, regardless of whether the tracker is an AirTag or another compatible with Android.

"Apple launched AirTag to give users the peace of mind knowing where to find their most important items," said Ron Huang, Apple's vice president of Sensing and Connectivity during the launch. "We built AirTag and the Find My network with a set of proactive features to discourage unwanted tracking -- a first in the industry -- and we continue to make improvements to help ensure the technology is being used as intended."

Google has essentially the same opinion on the system and potential interoperability.

"Bluetooth trackers have created tremendous user benefits, but they also bring the potential of unwanted tracking, which requires industrywide action to solve," said Dave Burke, Google's vice president of Engineering for Android. "Android has an unwavering commitment to protecting users, and will continue to develop strong safeguards and collaborate with the industry to help combat the misuse of Bluetooth tracking devices."

The specification was submitted as an Internet-Draft through the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), a standards development organization. The specification is open until August for review and comment from external parties.

At the time, the joint release said Apple and Google will address feedback and make adjustments after the period has ended. It has not expired as of yet.

A production implementation of the specification was said to be due by the end of 2023. The release period was said to be in future releases of both iOS and Android.

Other companies have also expressed support for the initiative, including Samsung, Tile, Chipolo, eufy Security, and Pebblebee. Not all of these companies have responded to the draft as of July 27.

Read on AppleInsider

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 24
    "Bluetooth trackers have created tremendous user benefits, but they also bring the potential of unwanted tracking, which requires industrywide action to solve,"  AirTag can find you 11 thousand (pick a number) km away.  In very simple terms - it's an iPhone with command lines that connect to your iPhone.  It's actually your iOS or MacOS doing all the work.  It's not Bluetooth Tracking.  Bluetooth is 50 meters if your lucky.  That's why Google is whack.  Only a Government agency would be this incompetent.
  • Reply 2 of 24
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,115member
    So like the AI lie don’t abuse initiative, Apple doesn’t need Google, being a part of this Bluetooth initiative doesn’t gain anything for Apple, however Google is just looking for Apple to be there so that they can benefit from Apple’s goodwill?, but Apple and Google are on two different pathways revenue wise and how they acquire that revenue means, it probably isn’t in Apple’s interest hold hands in this way.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 24
    lam92103lam92103 Posts: 140member
    Google has to be the whiniest crybaby ever. Either get with the AirTag standard or stop complaining. 

    Instead they keep blaming Apple for not wanting to be a part. 
    williamlondon9secondkox2danoxwatto_cobralolliver
  • Reply 4 of 24
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,390member
    danox said:
    So like the AI lie don’t abuse initiative, Apple doesn’t need Google, being a part of this Bluetooth initiative doesn’t gain anything for Apple, however Google is just looking for Apple to be there so that they can benefit from Apple’s goodwill?, but Apple and Google are on two different pathways revenue wise and how they acquire that revenue means, it probably isn’t in Apple’s interest hold hands in this way.
    Google can do this entirely on its own, just like Apple did. They don't need Apple to approve of it, just like Apple didn't need Google's blessing for the Airtag. They're ready now, and vendors and manufacturers have compatible devices ready to ship. In fact the app already exists. I can track and locate all of my personal mobile Android devices: Google Pixel smartphone, Samsung smartwatch, Pixel Buds and Pixel Buds Pro. What I can't do until Google allows it is add tracker tags and cards to Google's Find My network.  Apple decided there didn't need to be a standard so that all smartphone-owning consumers were protected from undisclosed trackers. Google thinks there should be, and convinced Apple it was probably the right thing to do. So they've partnered on creating a standard, but Google does not NEED to wait for that standard to be established to roll out the service.  

    IMO, for business and marketing reasons, Google should probably do exactly as Apple did with their tracker app, release it and, sometime down the line, make sure that iOS users will get a notification a tracker is following them, once Apple approves the notification app of course. It took Apple 8 months to offer an appropriate notification app to Google, and as it stands right now, Android users would get notifications of Android-compatible tags and trackers from day one, but iOS users would not. 

    Google is being quite consumer friendly in allowing Apple time to make sure their users get proper notification too, by establishing a standard, a gracious move.  
    edited July 2023 ctt_zhFileMakerFellermuthuk_vanalingam9secondkox2Alex1N
  • Reply 5 of 24
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,390member
    lam92103 said:
    Google has to be the whiniest crybaby ever. Either get with the AirTag standard or stop complaining. 

    Instead they keep blaming Apple for not wanting to be a part. 
    There is no "Airtag standard".  I suggest more research before commenting.
    A snippet from a pertinent article that might help you and other readers better understand:

    "Google has already announced that all Bluetooth tags compatible with the FindMyDevice network will support Android’s unknown tracker alerts. The iPhone does not have similar detection capabilities.

    At the start of May, Google and Apple announced an industry-wide unwanted tracker alert specification. Bluetooth trackers that abide by that approach will be discoverable by Android and iOS. The two mobile platforms have committed to add support once the spec is finalized.

    In the meantime they could of course launch the network service anyway but to their credit "Google is not launching the Find My Device (FMD) network “until Apple has implemented protections for iOS.” By making sure iPhone owners can find FMD-compatible trackers, this should hopefully reduce and help prevent the Google network from being used to track Apple devices without awareness from their owners. That would reflect badly on the FMD network and associated products, which is an ongoing occurrence for AirTags."


    edited July 2023 FileMakerFellermuthuk_vanalingam9secondkox2ctt_zhRespite
  • Reply 6 of 24
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,390member
    BiCC said:
      AirTag can find you 11 thousand (pick a number) km away.  In very simple terms - it's an iPhone with command lines that connect to your iPhone.  It's actually your iOS or MacOS doing all the work.  It's not Bluetooth Tracking.  Bluetooth is 50 meters if your lucky.  That's why Google is whack.  Only a Government agency would be this incompetent.
    In practical terms Google's FindMyDevice network will work the same as Apple's. It will not be a short-range locator. If Google is whack with their implementation then so is Apple. 
    edited July 2023 ctt_zhFileMakerFellerbeowulfschmidt
  • Reply 7 of 24
    hammeroftruthhammeroftruth Posts: 1,336member
    gatorguy said:
    BiCC said:
      AirTag can find you 11 thousand (pick a number) km away.  In very simple terms - it's an iPhone with command lines that connect to your iPhone.  It's actually your iOS or MacOS doing all the work.  It's not Bluetooth Tracking.  Bluetooth is 50 meters if your lucky.  That's why Google is whack.  Only a Government agency would be this incompetent.
    In practical terms Google's FindMyDevice network will work the same as Apple's. It will not be a short-range locator. If Google is whack with their implementation then so is Apple. 
    I think it will be short range just like Apple’s. That’s why it can take multiple iPhones to locate AirTags in the wild and give you specific location information. Take for example the person who made the news by finding their lost bag @ lost baggage when they were told it wasn’t there. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 24
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,082member
    gatorguy said:
    lam92103 said:
    Google has to be the whiniest crybaby ever. Either get with the AirTag standard or stop complaining. 

    Instead they keep blaming Apple for not wanting to be a part. 
    There is no "Airtag standard".  I suggest more research before commenting.
    A snippet from a pertinent article that might help you and other readers better understand:

    "Google has already announced that all Bluetooth tags compatible with the FindMyDevice network will support Android’s unknown tracker alerts. The iPhone does not have similar detection capabilities.

    At the start of May, Google and Apple announced an industry-wide unwanted tracker alert specification. Bluetooth trackers that abide by that approach will be discoverable by Android and iOS. The two mobile platforms have committed to add support once the spec is finalized.

    In the meantime they could of course launch the network service anyway but to their credit "Google is not launching the Find My Device (FMD) network “until Apple has implemented protections for iOS.” By making sure iPhone owners can find FMD-compatible trackers, this should hopefully reduce and help prevent the Google network from being used to track Apple devices without awareness from their owners. That would reflect badly on the FMD network and associated products, which is an ongoing occurrence for AirTags."


    >The specification was submitted as an Internet-Draft through the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), a standards development organization. The specification is open until August for review and comment from external parties.<


    No, in  the meantime Google can not launch their Android tracking service, unless they want to launch it before the "find my device network" standard is finalized for both OS's. Right now, both Google and Apple have already approved the draft of the standard that is going to be use, so both Android and iOS devices will work with it. But he final draft will no be ready until after reviewing any comments made by all others involve, up to the end of July and maybe making some changes based on those reviews. 

    So at the earliest that Google can launch would be maybe mid Aug. if there's no drastic changes to be made to the draft version. Which is still before the "by the end of 2023" deadline they set. So why is Google whining about Apple saying that they are not ready yet when Apple and others involve have until the end of July to summit any review concerning the draft?  Why should Apple implement "find my device network" on iOS when the standard will not be finalized until all the comments been reviewed?

    Only you would give Google credit for not yet launching their Android tag system because Apple has not yet implemented the "find my device network" standard on iOS. A standard that has not yet been finalized, for either OS's.  

    If we were in the middle of Sept., then maybe you giving Google credit for waiting until Apple gets iOS ready might be deserved.     
    FileMakerFeller9secondkox2danoxAlex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 24
    chasmchasm Posts: 3,431member
    danox said:
    So like the AI lie don’t abuse initiative, Apple doesn’t need Google, being a part of this Bluetooth initiative doesn’t gain anything for Apple, however Google is just looking for Apple to be there so that they can benefit from Apple’s goodwill?, but Apple and Google are on two different pathways revenue wise and how they acquire that revenue means, it probably isn’t in Apple’s interest hold hands in this way.
    You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how these devices work. Suffice to say that they do use Bluetooth. You should do some more reading before commenting on the subject of trackers.
    muthuk_vanalingam9secondkox2watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 24
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,916member
    Apple’s got their own standard. They’re the responsible ones. Nobody cares as much until apple showed them what care looks like. There’s an android anti stalker feature from apple out now too. 

    This is just another whine from Google about apple not helping them look better - like the RCS crybabying. 

    Shut up google. You stole iPhone ideas from apple’s boardroom and now you’re crying because apple is beating the crap out of your cheating butt? Sorry, not sorry. 
    danoxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 24
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,390member
    davidw said:
    gatorguy said:
    lam92103 said:
    Google has to be the whiniest crybaby ever. Either get with the AirTag standard or stop complaining. 

    Instead they keep blaming Apple for not wanting to be a part. 
    There is no "Airtag standard".  I suggest more research before commenting.
    A snippet from a pertinent article that might help you and other readers better understand:

    "Google has already announced that all Bluetooth tags compatible with the FindMyDevice network will support Android’s unknown tracker alerts. The iPhone does not have similar detection capabilities.

    At the start of May, Google and Apple announced an industry-wide unwanted tracker alert specification. Bluetooth trackers that abide by that approach will be discoverable by Android and iOS. The two mobile platforms have committed to add support once the spec is finalized.

    In the meantime they could of course launch the network service anyway but to their credit "Google is not launching the Find My Device (FMD) network “until Apple has implemented protections for iOS.” By making sure iPhone owners can find FMD-compatible trackers, this should hopefully reduce and help prevent the Google network from being used to track Apple devices without awareness from their owners. That would reflect badly on the FMD network and associated products, which is an ongoing occurrence for AirTags."


    >The specification was submitted as an Internet-Draft through the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), a standards development organization. The specification is open until August for review and comment from external parties.<


    No, in  the meantime Google can not launch their Android tracking service, unless they want to launch it before the "find my device network" standard is finalized for both OS's. Right now, both Google and Apple have already approved the draft of the standard that is going to be use, so both Android and iOS devices will work with it.   

    Only you would give Google credit for not yet launching their Android tag system because Apple has not yet implemented the "find my device network" standard on iOS. 
    Apple did not wait on a "standard" before releasing its Bluetooth tracking system. Google is not required to wait on one either. Yet they will in order to ensure Apple users aren't secretly tracked by an unwelcome device, a consideration that Apple decided not to extend to Android users for 8 months.

     IMO it would be reasonable for Google to do the same, ramp up the service and eventually Apple will catch up and alert their users. Instead, Google is taking the high road and awaiting Apple to offer iOS user protection, whether the eventual standard is fully approved. That sounds like Google thinking of not just Android owners but being considerate of iOS users too. 
    edited July 2023 ctt_zhmuthuk_vanalingamRespite
  • Reply 12 of 24
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,115member
    chasm said:
    danox said:
    So like the AI lie don’t abuse initiative, Apple doesn’t need Google, being a part of this Bluetooth initiative doesn’t gain anything for Apple, however Google is just looking for Apple to be there so that they can benefit from Apple’s goodwill?, but Apple and Google are on two different pathways revenue wise and how they acquire that revenue means, it probably isn’t in Apple’s interest hold hands in this way.
    You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how these devices work. Suffice to say that they do use Bluetooth. You should do some more reading before commenting on the subject of trackers.
    No, my understanding is how Google works. If Google wants something from Apple it isn’t in Apple’s best interest to do, and that also applies to RCS and the AI lie……..
    edited July 2023 williamlondon
  • Reply 13 of 24
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,082member
    gatorguy said:
    davidw said:
    gatorguy said:
    lam92103 said:
    Google has to be the whiniest crybaby ever. Either get with the AirTag standard or stop complaining. 

    Instead they keep blaming Apple for not wanting to be a part. 
    There is no "Airtag standard".  I suggest more research before commenting.
    A snippet from a pertinent article that might help you and other readers better understand:

    "Google has already announced that all Bluetooth tags compatible with the FindMyDevice network will support Android’s unknown tracker alerts. The iPhone does not have similar detection capabilities.

    At the start of May, Google and Apple announced an industry-wide unwanted tracker alert specification. Bluetooth trackers that abide by that approach will be discoverable by Android and iOS. The two mobile platforms have committed to add support once the spec is finalized.

    In the meantime they could of course launch the network service anyway but to their credit "Google is not launching the Find My Device (FMD) network “until Apple has implemented protections for iOS.” By making sure iPhone owners can find FMD-compatible trackers, this should hopefully reduce and help prevent the Google network from being used to track Apple devices without awareness from their owners. That would reflect badly on the FMD network and associated products, which is an ongoing occurrence for AirTags."


    >The specification was submitted as an Internet-Draft through the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), a standards development organization. The specification is open until August for review and comment from external parties.<


    No, in  the meantime Google can not launch their Android tracking service, unless they want to launch it before the "find my device network" standard is finalized for both OS's. Right now, both Google and Apple have already approved the draft of the standard that is going to be use, so both Android and iOS devices will work with it.   

    Only you would give Google credit for not yet launching their Android tag system because Apple has not yet implemented the "find my device network" standard on iOS. 
    Apple did ot wait on a "standard" before releasing their Bluetooth tracking system. Google is not required to wait on one either. Yet they will to ensure Apple users aren't secretly tracked by an unwelcome device, a consideration that Apple decided not to extend to Android users for 8 months.

     IMO it would be reasonable for Google to do the same, ramp up the service and eventually Apple will catch up and alert their users. Instead, Google is taking the high road and awaiting Apple to offer iOS user protection, whether the eventual standard is fully approved. That sounds like Google thinking of not just Android owners but being considerate of iOS users too. 
    We are not talking about the Apple AirTag tracking standard or the Android "find my device network" tag tracking standard. We are talking about cross platform anti-tracking detection standard incorporated in each tag system. Both Apple and Google agreed to a standard method where each other "tag" system  will be able to detect whether there is a "tag" tracking you, back in May (of this year.).  That agreed upon standard has not been finalized yet. It's still in draft form. It's waiting for the review period to end (end of July), before the board will finalize it. Apple is waiting for that standard to be finalized, before implementing it into their iOS AirTag system software.

    Yes, Google can go ahead and still release their Android tag system but they will still be using the draft version of the cross platform anti-tracking software. While Apple is still  waiting for this draft version to be finalized. 

    When Apple released their AirTag, using AirTags for stalking was not a known big problem. tiles been around for years before the AirTag and no big problem of stalking reported there. Though tiles do not have the range (or accuracy) that AirTags have. When it became an issue that AirTags were being use for stalking, Apple implemented anti-stalking feature in their own  AirTag system and released their "Track Detect" app for Android devices to detect an AirTag, about a year after the AirTag release. But now Google knows that their Android tag will be use for stalking, thanks to Apple AirTag being around for two years. Therefore, It would not be reasonable for Google to release their Android tag system until the agreed upon anti-tracking solution is finalized and implemented on both iOS and Android, in order to solve a known problem with "tags".  

    For you to give Google credit for not releasing their Android tag system until Apple users have a way to detect an Android tags tracking them, when Google have known for over a year now that stalking will be a problem and then criticize Apple for releasing their AirTag system without a method for Android users to detect an AirTag tracking them, when Apple did not know stalking would be such a big problem when they released their AirTag, is typical you. Thanks to Apple, once again, Google got 2 years of free RD on how to implement a competitive tag system for Android users.  
    edited July 2023 Xedwilliamlondon13485Alex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 24
    XedXed Posts: 2,708member
    gatorguy said:
    davidw said:
    gatorguy said:
    lam92103 said:
    Google has to be the whiniest crybaby ever. Either get with the AirTag standard or stop complaining. 

    Instead they keep blaming Apple for not wanting to be a part. 
    There is no "Airtag standard".  I suggest more research before commenting.
    A snippet from a pertinent article that might help you and other readers better understand:

    "Google has already announced that all Bluetooth tags compatible with the FindMyDevice network will support Android’s unknown tracker alerts. The iPhone does not have similar detection capabilities.

    At the start of May, Google and Apple announced an industry-wide unwanted tracker alert specification. Bluetooth trackers that abide by that approach will be discoverable by Android and iOS. The two mobile platforms have committed to add support once the spec is finalized.

    In the meantime they could of course launch the network service anyway but to their credit "Google is not launching the Find My Device (FMD) network “until Apple has implemented protections for iOS.” By making sure iPhone owners can find FMD-compatible trackers, this should hopefully reduce and help prevent the Google network from being used to track Apple devices without awareness from their owners. That would reflect badly on the FMD network and associated products, which is an ongoing occurrence for AirTags."


    >The specification was submitted as an Internet-Draft through the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), a standards development organization. The specification is open until August for review and comment from external parties.<


    No, in  the meantime Google can not launch their Android tracking service, unless they want to launch it before the "find my device network" standard is finalized for both OS's. Right now, both Google and Apple have already approved the draft of the standard that is going to be use, so both Android and iOS devices will work with it.   

    Only you would give Google credit for not yet launching their Android tag system because Apple has not yet implemented the "find my device network" standard on iOS. 
    Apple did not wait on a "standard" before releasing its Bluetooth tracking system. Google is not required to wait on one either. Yet they will in order to ensure Apple users aren't secretly tracked by an unwelcome device, a consideration that Apple decided not to extend to Android users for 8 months.

     IMO it would be reasonable for Google to do the same, ramp up the service and eventually Apple will catch up and alert their users. Instead, Google is taking the high road and awaiting Apple to offer iOS user protection, whether the eventual standard is fully approved. That sounds like Google thinking of not just Android owners but being considerate of iOS users too. 
    Apple can't just extend their in-house anti-stalking system to everyone else without risking it would lead to those other devices being compromised. A noble venture for Apple to extend to others, but it's going to be a lot of work to setup and get right. Apple is very clearly ahead in this game and taking the high road which Alphabet and others are simply following suit after lambasting Apple for the mere consideration to prevent stalking 2 years ago.
    edited July 2023 williamlondonAlex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 24
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,390member
    davidw said:
    gatorguy said:
    davidw said:
    gatorguy said:
    lam92103 said:
    Google has to be the whiniest crybaby ever. Either get with the AirTag standard or stop complaining. 

    Instead they keep blaming Apple for not wanting to be a part. 
    There is no "Airtag standard".  I suggest more research before commenting.
    A snippet from a pertinent article that might help you and other readers better understand:

    "Google has already announced that all Bluetooth tags compatible with the FindMyDevice network will support Android’s unknown tracker alerts. The iPhone does not have similar detection capabilities.

    At the start of May, Google and Apple announced an industry-wide unwanted tracker alert specification. Bluetooth trackers that abide by that approach will be discoverable by Android and iOS. The two mobile platforms have committed to add support once the spec is finalized.

    In the meantime they could of course launch the network service anyway but to their credit "Google is not launching the Find My Device (FMD) network “until Apple has implemented protections for iOS.” By making sure iPhone owners can find FMD-compatible trackers, this should hopefully reduce and help prevent the Google network from being used to track Apple devices without awareness from their owners. That would reflect badly on the FMD network and associated products, which is an ongoing occurrence for AirTags."


    >The specification was submitted as an Internet-Draft through the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), a standards development organization. The specification is open until August for review and comment from external parties.<


    No, in  the meantime Google can not launch their Android tracking service, unless they want to launch it before the "find my device network" standard is finalized for both OS's. Right now, both Google and Apple have already approved the draft of the standard that is going to be use, so both Android and iOS devices will work with it.   

    Only you would give Google credit for not yet launching their Android tag system because Apple has not yet implemented the "find my device network" standard on iOS. 
    Apple did ot wait on a "standard" before releasing their Bluetooth tracking system. Google is not required to wait on one either. Yet they will to ensure Apple users aren't secretly tracked by an unwelcome device, a consideration that Apple decided not to extend to Android users for 8 months.

     IMO it would be reasonable for Google to do the same, ramp up the service and eventually Apple will catch up and alert their users. Instead, Google is taking the high road and awaiting Apple to offer iOS user protection, whether the eventual standard is fully approved. That sounds like Google thinking of not just Android owners but being considerate of iOS users too. 


    Yes, Google can go ahead and still release their Android tag system but they will still be using the draft version of the cross platform anti-tracking software. While Apple is still  waiting for this draft version to be finalized. 

    When Apple released their AirTag, using AirTags for stalking was not a known big problem. tiles been around for years before the AirTag and no big problem of stalking reported there.  But now Google knows that their Android tag will be use for stalking, thanks to Apple AirTag being around for two years...
    Thanks to Apple, once again, Google got 2 years of free RD on how to implement a competitive tag system for Android users.  
    Isn't this the placeholder for you or someone else to say "they weren't first, they were just first to do it right" or something along those lines if it were Apple? :)

    Now to get back to the meat of the matter, Google isn't 'whining" about waiting on Apple. They are explaining to Android users why a planned feature is being delayed. And that is the specific reason; Apple hasn't yet offered a way for iPhone owners to be notified, even tho they too have known for over a year that Google was readying the FindMyDevice network. I have zero doubt Google has been discussing this with Apple for at least that long, probably longer.

    Settling on establishing an industry-wide standard is the result of that, but it comes long after Google last year had signaled it would be coming out right about now. Thus Android owners/users deserved an explanation. It's not Google's holdup, it's a result of Apple deciding they would wait on a standard to be approved by everyone before doing anything, and Google allowing them the time to do that. 

    Google for their part has now released a custom implementation to protect Android users from Bluetooth tag stalking, ahead of the finalized joint spec. Apple, however, will wait to implement the joint spec but will not roll out its own custom implementation in the meantime. So yeah, it's Apple.
    edited July 2023 Respite
  • Reply 16 of 24
    riverkoriverko Posts: 234member
    davidw said:
    We are not talking about the Apple AirTag tracking standard or the Android "find my device network" tag tracking standard. We are talking about cross platform anti-tracking detection standard incorporated in each tag system. Both Apple and Google agreed to a standard method where each other "tag" system  will be able to detect whether there is a "tag" tracking you, back in May (of this year.).  That agreed upon standard has not been finalized yet. It's still in draft form. It's waiting for the review period to end (end of July), before the board will finalize it. Apple is waiting for that standard to be finalized, before implementing it into their iOS AirTag system software.

    Yes, Google can go ahead and still release their Android tag system but they will still be using the draft version of the cross platform anti-tracking software. While Apple is still  waiting for this draft version to be finalized. 

    When Apple released their AirTag, using AirTags for stalking was not a known big problem. tiles been around for years before the AirTag and no big problem of stalking reported there. Though tiles do not have the range (or accuracy) that AirTags have. When it became an issue that AirTags were being use for stalking, Apple implemented anti-stalking feature in their own  AirTag system and released their "Track Detect" app for Android devices to detect an AirTag, about a year after the AirTag release. But now Google knows that their Android tag will be use for stalking, thanks to Apple AirTag being around for two years. Therefore, It would not be reasonable for Google to release their Android tag system until the agreed upon anti-tracking solution is finalized and implemented on both iOS and Android, in order to solve a known problem with "tags".  

    For you to give Google credit for not releasing their Android tag system until Apple users have a way to detect an Android tags tracking them, when Google have known for over a year now that stalking will be a problem and then criticize Apple for releasing their AirTag system without a method for Android users to detect an AirTag tracking them, when Apple did not know stalking would be such a big problem when they released their AirTag, is typical you. Thanks to Apple, once again, Google got 2 years of free RD on how to implement a competitive tag system for Android users.  
    I wouldn’t say previous trackers were not used for stalking. There was not just a tool to find out about the stalking. As Apple made a tool like that just pointed out to the existing problem where users where not aware of it. So claiming that there was issue with AirTag used for stalking sounds like no other tracker can be used for that… which i think is not true…
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 24
    Alex1NAlex1N Posts: 144member

    An interoperable Bluetooth tracker abuse prevention system was expected to roll out by the end of 2023

    (my emphasis).

    (Snip…)

    The specification was submitted as an Internet-Draft through the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), a standards development organization. The specification is open until August and a post from Google on Thursday seemingly points the finger at Apple as to why it hasn't arrived yet.

    Hmm…I didn’t realise that the end of the the year is the end of July. Maybe that explains why it hasn’t arrived yet. /s

    I do realise that there’s a July 31 submission deadline, but the article’s first sentence and the other one quoted are misleading.
    Xedwatto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 24
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,082member
    gatorguy said:
    davidw said:
    gatorguy said:
    davidw said:
    gatorguy said:
    lam92103 said:
    Google has to be the whiniest crybaby ever. Either get with the AirTag standard or stop complaining. 

    Instead they keep blaming Apple for not wanting to be a part. 
    There is no "Airtag standard".  I suggest more research before commenting.
    A snippet from a pertinent article that might help you and other readers better understand:

    "Google has already announced that all Bluetooth tags compatible with the FindMyDevice network will support Android’s unknown tracker alerts. The iPhone does not have similar detection capabilities.

    At the start of May, Google and Apple announced an industry-wide unwanted tracker alert specification. Bluetooth trackers that abide by that approach will be discoverable by Android and iOS. The two mobile platforms have committed to add support once the spec is finalized.

    In the meantime they could of course launch the network service anyway but to their credit "Google is not launching the Find My Device (FMD) network “until Apple has implemented protections for iOS.” By making sure iPhone owners can find FMD-compatible trackers, this should hopefully reduce and help prevent the Google network from being used to track Apple devices without awareness from their owners. That would reflect badly on the FMD network and associated products, which is an ongoing occurrence for AirTags."


    >The specification was submitted as an Internet-Draft through the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), a standards development organization. The specification is open until August for review and comment from external parties.<


    No, in  the meantime Google can not launch their Android tracking service, unless they want to launch it before the "find my device network" standard is finalized for both OS's. Right now, both Google and Apple have already approved the draft of the standard that is going to be use, so both Android and iOS devices will work with it.   

    Only you would give Google credit for not yet launching their Android tag system because Apple has not yet implemented the "find my device network" standard on iOS. 
    Apple did ot wait on a "standard" before releasing their Bluetooth tracking system. Google is not required to wait on one either. Yet they will to ensure Apple users aren't secretly tracked by an unwelcome device, a consideration that Apple decided not to extend to Android users for 8 months.

     IMO it would be reasonable for Google to do the same, ramp up the service and eventually Apple will catch up and alert their users. Instead, Google is taking the high road and awaiting Apple to offer iOS user protection, whether the eventual standard is fully approved. That sounds like Google thinking of not just Android owners but being considerate of iOS users too. 


    Yes, Google can go ahead and still release their Android tag system but they will still be using the draft version of the cross platform anti-tracking software. While Apple is still  waiting for this draft version to be finalized. 

    When Apple released their AirTag, using AirTags for stalking was not a known big problem. tiles been around for years before the AirTag and no big problem of stalking reported there.  But now Google knows that their Android tag will be use for stalking, thanks to Apple AirTag being around for two years...
    Thanks to Apple, once again, Google got 2 years of free RD on how to implement a competitive tag system for Android users.  
    Isn't this the placeholder for you or someone else to say "they weren't first, they were just first to do it right" or something along those lines if it were Apple? :)

    Now to get back to the meat of the matter, Google isn't 'whining" about waiting on Apple. They are explaining to Android users why a planned feature is being delayed. And that is the specific reason; Apple hasn't yet offered a way for iPhone owners to be notified, even tho they too have known for over a year that Google was readying the FindMyDevice network. I have zero doubt Google has been discussing this with Apple for at least that long, probably longer.

    Settling on establishing an industry-wide standard is the result of that, but it comes long after Google last year had signaled it would be coming out right about now. Thus Android owners/users deserved an explanation. It's not Google's holdup, it's a result of Apple deciding they would wait on a standard to be approved by everyone before doing anything, and Google allowing them the time to do that. 

    Google for their part has now released a custom implementation to protect Android users from Bluetooth tag stalking, ahead of the finalized joint spec. Apple, however, will wait to implement the joint spec but will not roll out its own custom implementation in the meantime. So yeah, it's Apple.
    And Google is explaining (whining) why they have not released their Android "tag" system by saying that they are still waiting for Apple to implement their agreed upon cross platform detection software. Which won't be finalized until sometime in Aug. Why couldn't they explain that the cross platform tag detection software that both tag system will be using, has not yet been finalized? Just because Google is willing to risk implementing the cross platform tag detection software before it becomes finalized, doesn't mean that Apple is holding them up, by not wanting to take that same risk. Apple in their right to wait for the finalized version, before implement into iOS.

    https://techcrunch.com/2021/12/14/apple-releases-tracker-detect-android-app-to-help-users-discover-unknown-nearby-airtags/

    Apple released their "Track Detecter" app to protect Android device users around the beginning of last year. Android users are already protected from being stalked by an AirTag. (Though the app is not the most user friendly. But Android users are use to that. :) ) At the time, Google has not yet developed their own tag system, though they were probably already working on one. The agreed upon cross platform tag detection software was drafted in May of this year and waiting to be finalized at the end of July. That's about 2 months wait. So in the meantime, you are criticizing Apple for not releasing another tag detection software to protect Android users, for the 2 months it's going to take to finalize their cross platform detection software?

    No, this is on Google for not properly explaining to their users that they are waiting for the cross platform detection software to be finalized. Google own time frame for releasing their Android tag system was .... before the end of the 2023. Google did not have to explain to their users that they are being delayed due to Apple, because their Android tag system is still on time. Google is just once again whining about how Apple is holding them up, from making the World a better place for everyone. 
    edited July 2023 williamlondonAlex1N
  • Reply 19 of 24
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,390member
    davidw said:
    gatorguy said:
    davidw said:
    gatorguy said:
    davidw said:
    gatorguy said:
    lam92103 said:
    Google has to be the whiniest crybaby ever. Either get with the AirTag standard or stop complaining. 

    Instead they keep blaming Apple for not wanting to be a part. 
    There is no "Airtag standard".  I suggest more research before commenting.
    A snippet from a pertinent article that might help you and other readers better understand:

    "Google has already announced that all Bluetooth tags compatible with the FindMyDevice network will support Android’s unknown tracker alerts. The iPhone does not have similar detection capabilities.

    At the start of May, Google and Apple announced an industry-wide unwanted tracker alert specification. Bluetooth trackers that abide by that approach will be discoverable by Android and iOS. The two mobile platforms have committed to add support once the spec is finalized.

    In the meantime they could of course launch the network service anyway but to their credit "Google is not launching the Find My Device (FMD) network “until Apple has implemented protections for iOS.” By making sure iPhone owners can find FMD-compatible trackers, this should hopefully reduce and help prevent the Google network from being used to track Apple devices without awareness from their owners. That would reflect badly on the FMD network and associated products, which is an ongoing occurrence for AirTags."


    >The specification was submitted as an Internet-Draft through the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), a standards development organization. The specification is open until August for review and comment from external parties.<


    No, in  the meantime Google can not launch their Android tracking service, unless they want to launch it before the "find my device network" standard is finalized for both OS's. Right now, both Google and Apple have already approved the draft of the standard that is going to be use, so both Android and iOS devices will work with it.   

    Only you would give Google credit for not yet launching their Android tag system because Apple has not yet implemented the "find my device network" standard on iOS. 
    Apple did ot wait on a "standard" before releasing their Bluetooth tracking system. Google is not required to wait on one either. Yet they will to ensure Apple users aren't secretly tracked by an unwelcome device, a consideration that Apple decided not to extend to Android users for 8 months.

     IMO it would be reasonable for Google to do the same, ramp up the service and eventually Apple will catch up and alert their users. Instead, Google is taking the high road and awaiting Apple to offer iOS user protection, whether the eventual standard is fully approved. That sounds like Google thinking of not just Android owners but being considerate of iOS users too. 


    Yes, Google can go ahead and still release their Android tag system but they will still be using the draft version of the cross platform anti-tracking software. While Apple is still  waiting for this draft version to be finalized. 

    When Apple released their AirTag, using AirTags for stalking was not a known big problem. tiles been around for years before the AirTag and no big problem of stalking reported there.  But now Google knows that their Android tag will be use for stalking, thanks to Apple AirTag being around for two years...
    Thanks to Apple, once again, Google got 2 years of free RD on how to implement a competitive tag system for Android users.  
    Isn't this the placeholder for you or someone else to say "they weren't first, they were just first to do it right" or something along those lines if it were Apple? :)

    Now to get back to the meat of the matter, Google isn't 'whining" about waiting on Apple. They are explaining to Android users why a planned feature is being delayed. And that is the specific reason; Apple hasn't yet offered a way for iPhone owners to be notified, even tho they too have known for over a year that Google was readying the FindMyDevice network. I have zero doubt Google has been discussing this with Apple for at least that long, probably longer.

    Settling on establishing an industry-wide standard is the result of that, but it comes long after Google last year had signaled it would be coming out right about now. Thus Android owners/users deserved an explanation. It's not Google's holdup, it's a result of Apple deciding they would wait on a standard to be approved by everyone before doing anything, and Google allowing them the time to do that. 

    Google for their part has now released a custom implementation to protect Android users from Bluetooth tag stalking, ahead of the finalized joint spec. Apple, however, will wait to implement the joint spec but will not roll out its own custom implementation in the meantime. So yeah, it's Apple.
    And Google is explaining...  Apple in their right to wait for the finalized version, before implement...

    Apple released their "Track Detecter" app to protect Android device users around the beginning of last year.... At the time, Google has not yet developed their own tag system... 
    No, this is on Google ...
    You typically explain clearly, and with well-researched posts. This one feels like it's flopping around trying to land on a poorly-defined point. Definitely not the quality of comment you usually make IMHO.

     Probably best to just say you agree to disagree, and I'll do the same.

    So dropping in something that's yet to be mentioned: How will Google and Apple deal with Tile's Anti-Theft Mode? Perhaps that's addressed as part of the standard.
    edited July 2023 muthuk_vanalingamAlex1NRespite
  • Reply 20 of 24
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,390member
    So here we are at the end of the year, when Apple promised they would have the joint standard approved and rolling out. From reading the emails I receive from the group developing the standard, Apple is still the hold-up, mainly over the IP and what their commitment not to assert claims factually means. The noise I'm hearing is that because of this the entire effort may end up abandoned.

    AFAICT Google is ready, willing, and able, but the standard is not progressing as promised. 
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