Apple still doesn't need RCS, but the latest update brings it closer to being suitable for...

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in iPhone

Google has been pushing RCS as a standard that will replace SMS, criticizing Apple for not adopting it, and yet its latest update is only one tiny step closer to being suitable as an option for Apple.

RCS competes with iMessage
RCS competes with iMessage



Rich Communication Services (RCS) is a new internet messaging standard meant to replace outdated technologies like SMS. However, several problems with its implementation have kept it from becoming widespread, though a year of progress has made it slightly better than half-baked.

On Tuesday, Google made a couple of announcements via its RCS support channel. RCS is now enabled by default, kind of, and group messages are now end-to-end encrypted as long as everyone in them has RCS enabled.

Specifically, here's what Google had to say about its RCS update:

"RCS will now be enabled by default for new and existing users, unless they've previously turned RCS off in Settings. You can always turn RCS on or off in Settings at any time. "



Google says this default setting has come about to ensure everyone benefits from the end-to-end encrypted group chats. That is if you can access RCS.



It's still not immediately clear who gets to benefit from RCS, though it is an increasing population. There is still some confusion around carrier or device support, and Google has attempted to get around this by baking RCS into Messages by Google.

After diving through many Google support documents, there doesn't appear to be a master list of supported devices. That's understandable, given the thousands of handsets running Android on the market.

That's an incredible difference when compared to Apple's iMessage. Every iPhone, iPad, Mac, and Apple Watch comes with the Messages app.

That and iMessage is tied to the user's phone number and Apple ID. It's a foolproof system that ensures users just open their messaging app and start chatting without having to think of what standard they are using.

As long as Android users have to think about whether or not they are using RCS, which version is in play, and what app to use -- RCS is a failure. That said, Google does seem to be addressing these problems, albeit slowly.

RCS needs to meet Apple's standards



If Apple is ever going to consider RCS a realistic standard to bring to its Messages app, Google needs to make the case. The many ads from Google blaming Apple for not adopting RCS make it seem like an Apple problem to solve.

iMessage is ingrained in iOS, unlike RCS on Android
iMessage is ingrained in iOS, unlike RCS on Android



Google is the driving force behind RCS. Therefore it needs to make it worth Apple's and its customer's time.

If Apple were to implement RCS in Messages today as an option to message Android users, it removes the simplicity of using Apple Messages and introduces Google's fragmented issues to the platform.

Google has a significant up hill battle on its hands. The company needs to undo decades of carrier bloat, government nosiness, and user norms to get RCS on every platform as a universal standard.

It seems like an impossible task. Instead, we at AppleInsider expect RCS will eventually fall to the wayside as another failed Google experiment while a true new standard steps up, backed by carriers, governments, and tech platforms alike.

In any case, today's update is a step in the right direction. There is still a slim chance Apple could consider RCS on iPhone in the next decade.

Until then, you can "buy your mom an iPhone."

Read on AppleInsider

FileMakerFeller
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 29
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,284member
    Hopefully that hill will get bigger, RCS offers nothing to Apple.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 29
    Anilu_777Anilu_777 Posts: 570member
    If Google put as much energy into one messaging platform (hello Allo, Hangouts, Google Chat) and made it really good then it has a chance. But that ship has likely sailed. People use WhatsApp or Messenger etc. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 29
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,695member
    I presume the EU will mandate this next.
    danoxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 29
    xyzzy01xyzzy01 Posts: 142member
    This article is fundamentally flawed.

    RCS is not "a new internet messaging standard". It started as a telcom industry initiative in 2007, and was developed at the GSM Association from 2008 onwards. The goal was to replace SMS, which was a hack that had become incredibly popular.
    gatorguywilliamlondonravnorodom
  • Reply 5 of 29
    IMO Google has two goals with this.

    1 Stop people leaving Android for iOS due to the iMessage ecosystem.

    2 Get hold of a couple of billion AppleIDs Android users will interact with.

    If Google is pushing it so furiously there is one play: it's good for Google!
    There are plenty of cross platform messaging apps out there. (WhatsApp, Viber, Messenger, Snapchat...)

    edited August 2023
  • Reply 6 of 29
    @Xyzzy01
    Yes RCS is not that new, but the article it right that it is still not ready for any and all platforms, since in practice it lacks the universal interoperability of SMS, i.e., whatever phone and carrier you use, you can send and receive SMSs without installing any additional application and without registering to any additional service (no Apple/Google/Samsung/Meta/etc. account necessary). Therefore I also agree that only a solution "backed by carriers, governments, and tech platforms alike" could replace SMS, and RCS is (still?) not such a solution.

    Outside of the US of A, people do not use iOS solely for iMessage, since there are often many more Android users than iOS users. For example, in my family/friends groups (in France) we use Whatsapp, Signal, Discord much more than iMessage (incidentally, for group calls we use the same, or even Skype, but literally never Facetime).





    edited August 2023 FileMakerFellerdewme
  • Reply 7 of 29
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,595member
     Isn't support for SMS falling by the wayside, and deprecation set to accelerate? 
    • Microsoft no longer supports SMS for some sign-in types, including new devices and multi-factor authentication
    • Facebook/Meta Messenger will no longer support SMS as of September 28, 2023
    • Signal is removing SMS and MMS support to improve user safety and data protection
    Apple can cling to the insecure SMS as a backup and cross-platform messaging standard as long as they want, and for solely competitive reasons, but they're not doing Apple users any favor by doing so.

    My guess is that, for purely profit reasons, Apple will refuse to make any iMessage protocol changes until law or regulators mandate it. But change they will, and probably sooner rather than later. Any takers on a friendly wager of within 12-16 months (probably less but I'm being generous)?
    edited August 2023 ctt_zhmuthuk_vanalingamavon b7
  • Reply 8 of 29
    ctt_zhctt_zh Posts: 83member
    I presume the EU will mandate this next.
    In Europe most people don't use iMessage and use an app like WhatsApp, so they already enjoy end-to-end encryption regardless of the device. Otherwise the EU mandating it would be an excellent idea! Seriously, I'm sure the EU will mandate interoperability using the forthcoming Messaging Layer Security (MLS) protocol in order to ensure end-to-end encryption between different messaging apps... that would make more sense than focussing on RCS.
    auxioxyzzy01mknelson
  • Reply 9 of 29
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,595member
    ctt_zh said:
    I presume the EU will mandate this next.
     I'm sure the EU will mandate interoperability using the forthcoming Messaging Layer Security (MLS) protocol in order to ensure end-to-end encryption between different messaging apps... that would make more sense than focussing on RCS.
    MLS has Google's support ahead of any EU mandates in that direction.

    Google already announced that it intends to “build MLS into Google Messages and support its wide deployment across the industry by open sourcing our implementation in the Android codebase.”

    This means that with MLS built into Google Messages, you’ll be able to chat with others securely, E2EE, no matter what messaging app they use including iMessage. 

    edited August 2023 ctt_zhwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 29
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,754member
    gatorguy said:
     Isn't support for SMS falling by the wayside, and deprecation set to accelerate? 
    • Microsoft no longer supports SMS for some sign-in types, including new devices and multi-factor authentication
    • Facebook/Meta Messenger will no longer support SMS as of September 28, 2023
    • Signal is removing SMS and MMS support to improve user safety and data protection
    Apple can cling to the insecure SMS as a backup and cross-platform messaging standard as long as they want, and for solely competitive reasons, but they're not doing Apple users any favor by doing so.

    My guess is that, for purely profit reasons, Apple will refuse to make any iMessage protocol changes until law or regulators mandate it. But change they will, and probably sooner rather than later. Any takers on a friendly wager of within 12-16 months (probably less but I'm being generous)?
    I love when people try to bring in the profit argument. We live in a capitalist world, every company needs profit or they go out of business. So let's analyze Google's profit model.

    They give the technology they develop away for free, and make profit by monitoring everything possible while people are using their technology, building a profile about them, and then selling advertisers opportunities to get in front of the right eyeballs because they know everything about people.

    Their business model has essentially made technology (especially software) worthless in most people's eyes. People now expect everything to be free. I was actually having a debate about this with someone the other day. Their response was "but Google's software isn't that great" (which I admit that I had a good laugh at). Unfortunately it's not just Google's software, many other software companies now fund their products the same way because it's impossible to compete with free, and that's what people have come to expect. It's also happening in other industries like news, entertainment, etc, but that's a separate (though related) debate. Especially in the sense of decent paying jobs in those industries.

    So with that, one can understand the facade Google has built around open standards and open source. When the technology itself isn't what you're selling, it's much more profitable if you can get it for free from open source communities, or clone and own existing technology to avoid the cost of licensing or creating it yourself. And with open standards for everything, you get to remove any competitive advantage other technology companies might have.

    I wonder what Google would say if they had to open source their database of information about people, thus eliminating any competitive advantage they have over other online advertising companies...

    As for RCS/SMS, I definitely believe the MLS approach is the best option. Have the encryption/authentication part be an open standard, as well as how messages are delivered, but allow technology companies to keep any competitive advantage they have in regard to communication other than text and simple media.

    edited August 2023 watto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 29
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,595member
    auxio said:
    gatorguy said:
     Isn't support for SMS falling by the wayside, and deprecation set to accelerate? 
    • Microsoft no longer supports SMS for some sign-in types, including new devices and multi-factor authentication
    • Facebook/Meta Messenger will no longer support SMS as of September 28, 2023
    • Signal is removing SMS and MMS support to improve user safety and data protection
    Apple can cling to the insecure SMS as a backup and cross-platform messaging standard as long as they want, and for solely competitive reasons, but they're not doing Apple users any favor by doing so.

    My guess is that, for purely profit reasons, Apple will refuse to make any iMessage protocol changes until law or regulators mandate it. But change they will, and probably sooner rather than later. Any takers on a friendly wager of within 12-16 months (probably less but I'm being generous)?
    I love when people try to bring in the profit argument. We live in a capitalist world, every company needs profit or they go out of business. So let's analyze Google's profit model.
    I 100% agree with you, but I think you miss or ignore the point: Apple stubbornly clinging to SMS, and refusing to make iMessage cross-platform, has little to nothing to do with the reasons Apple states, essentially "we're doing it for our customers". It's for profit reasons, just as what drives most companies to do what they do.
    ctt_zh
  • Reply 12 of 29
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,950member
    gatorguy said:
    This means that with MLS built into Google Messages, you’ll be able to chat with others securely, E2EE, no matter what messaging app they use including iMessage. 
    I guess this was hyperbole? Really, no matter what messaging app they use? Even if the app doesn't support it? I mean, there are still a lot of obsolete Android devices (you know, anything older than 6 mo.) out there that won't ever support it.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 29
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,950member

    ctt_zh said:
    I presume the EU will mandate this next.
    In Europe most people don't use iMessage and use an app like WhatsApp, so they already enjoy end-to-end encryption regardless of the device. Otherwise the EU mandating it would be an excellent idea! Seriously, I'm sure the EU will mandate interoperability using the forthcoming Messaging Layer Security (MLS) protocol in order to ensure end-to-end encryption between different messaging apps... that would make more sense than focussing on RCS.
    Yeah, that'll be the day when governments start mandating E2E encryption, hahaha.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 29
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,754member
    gatorguy said:
    auxio said:
    gatorguy said:
     Isn't support for SMS falling by the wayside, and deprecation set to accelerate? 
    • Microsoft no longer supports SMS for some sign-in types, including new devices and multi-factor authentication
    • Facebook/Meta Messenger will no longer support SMS as of September 28, 2023
    • Signal is removing SMS and MMS support to improve user safety and data protection
    Apple can cling to the insecure SMS as a backup and cross-platform messaging standard as long as they want, and for solely competitive reasons, but they're not doing Apple users any favor by doing so.

    My guess is that, for purely profit reasons, Apple will refuse to make any iMessage protocol changes until law or regulators mandate it. But change they will, and probably sooner rather than later. Any takers on a friendly wager of within 12-16 months (probably less but I'm being generous)?
    I love when people try to bring in the profit argument. We live in a capitalist world, every company needs profit or they go out of business. So let's analyze Google's profit model.
    I 100% agree with you, but I think you miss or ignore the point: Apple stubbornly clinging to SMS, and refusing to make iMessage cross-platform, has little to nothing to do with the reasons Apple states, essentially "we're doing it for our customers". It's for profit reasons, just as what drives most companies to do what they do.
    And Google being a proponent of open source and standards trying to look like the good guy to the open source community (and customers) is exactly the same thing. At least Apple creates jobs and wealth by funding R&D with their stance. Compare that with Google's approach of avoiding licensing fees and paying for R&D (at least, for things other than customer data harvesting and analysis technology).
    edited August 2023 williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 29
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,595member
    auxio said:
    gatorguy said:
    auxio said:
    gatorguy said:
     Isn't support for SMS falling by the wayside, and deprecation set to accelerate? 
    • Microsoft no longer supports SMS for some sign-in types, including new devices and multi-factor authentication
    • Facebook/Meta Messenger will no longer support SMS as of September 28, 2023
    • Signal is removing SMS and MMS support to improve user safety and data protection
    Apple can cling to the insecure SMS as a backup and cross-platform messaging standard as long as they want, and for solely competitive reasons, but they're not doing Apple users any favor by doing so.

    My guess is that, for purely profit reasons, Apple will refuse to make any iMessage protocol changes until law or regulators mandate it. But change they will, and probably sooner rather than later. Any takers on a friendly wager of within 12-16 months (probably less but I'm being generous)?
    I love when people try to bring in the profit argument. We live in a capitalist world, every company needs profit or they go out of business. So let's analyze Google's profit model.
    I 100% agree with you, but I think you miss or ignore the point: Apple stubbornly clinging to SMS, and refusing to make iMessage cross-platform, has little to nothing to do with the reasons Apple states, essentially "we're doing it for our customers". It's for profit reasons, just as what drives most companies to do what they do.
    And Google being a proponent of open source and standards trying to look like the good guy to the open source community (and customers) is exactly the same thing. At least Apple creates jobs and wealth by funding R&D with their stance. Compare that with Google's approach of avoiding licensing fees and paying for R&D (at least, for things other than customer data harvesting and analysis technology).
    You;re being a bit harsh on the unwillingness of Google to spend research dollars.

    They involve themselves in far more than ad development, but yes it's ads that allow Google to significantly outspend Apple when it comes to research and development; Reporting stats show Google R&D spend in 2022 was $31.56 billion (exceeding the total revenue of 128 Fortune 500 firms) compared to Apple's $21.91 billion.

    Apple could spend more if they wanted, and on things that would benefit the greater community at large more. But their interests in advancing technology are not as diverse as Google's, nor does it need to be for Apple to be the most profitable company on the planet. They do pretty good by concentrating on those things they can directly profit from.

    Google has its fingers in a lot of things, including those where there's no clear profit motive. 
    edited August 2023 ctt_zhFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 16 of 29
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,595member
    gatorguy said:
    This means that with MLS built into Google Messages, you’ll be able to chat with others securely, E2EE, no matter what messaging app they use including iMessage. 
    I mean, there are still a lot of obsolete Android devices (you know, anything older than 6 mo.) out there that won't ever support it.
    Why not? Google just now is dropping app updates and support for Android 4.4. aka KitKat, which goes back a decade. A very tiny percentage of currently used Google Android devices, under 2%, could not receive the benefits of E2EE MLS.

    For whatever reason, the common perception is Google doesn't support anything older than three years which is untrue. 
    More research and less squawking would be in order. 
    edited August 2023 ctt_zh
  • Reply 17 of 29
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,100member
    gatorguy said:
     Isn't support for SMS falling by the wayside, and deprecation set to accelerate? 
    • Microsoft no longer supports SMS for some sign-in types, including new devices and multi-factor authentication
    • Facebook/Meta Messenger will no longer support SMS as of September 28, 2023
    • Signal is removing SMS and MMS support to improve user safety and data protection
    Apple can cling to the insecure SMS as a backup and cross-platform messaging standard as long as they want, and for solely competitive reasons, but they're not doing Apple users any favor by doing so.

    My guess is that, for purely profit reasons, Apple will refuse to make any iMessage protocol changes until law or regulators mandate it. But change they will, and probably sooner rather than later. Any takers on a friendly wager of within 12-16 months (probably less but I'm being generous)?

    AFAIK- For now, every single mobile network carrier in the World, still supports SMS. There is not a single mobile phone out there that requires the support of Microsoft, Facebook, Signal or any of the other popular messaging services, to receive or send SMS messages. Every mobile plan comes with SMS messaging, without the need to pay for a data plan. Even the mobile plans from mobile network carriers that are supporting RCS, still support SMS with their mobile plan.

    By defaulting to SMS, when Apple iMessage users message an Android user, the Apple users are ensured that the Android user will most likely receive the message. That is not true with RCS. In order for an Android user to receive an RCS message, they must use Google Messages (of Samsung Messages) as their default messaging service or at the least turn on RCS. With Facebook Messenger and WhatsApp being on over 80% of the Word Android phones, there is no need to use Google Messages. Any Android phone will still receive SMS messages just fine using the SMS client provided by their carrier. So for the Apple iMessage users, Apple is doing them a favor by defaulting to SMS (rather than RCS) when messaging to Android users, to ensure the best possible chance that the Android user will receive the message.

    BTW- Google Messages still supports SMS.   

    By your guess ...... just exactly what profit is Apple protecting by not changing iMessage? iMessage was/is meant to be a free secure messaging service between iOS/Mac users. It was never developed to be a cross platform messaging service. (Though I read the thought did cross Apple mind at one time or another.) iMessage just handles SMS messaging because all mobile phones must be able to handle SMS, if they are to be on any mobile carrier plan. This kept things simple so iOS users don't need to use a separate app to send or receive SMS messages. Even SMS messages from other iOS users. iMessage is not the same as WhatsApp, Messenger, Signal and others, that are cross platform, to obtain the most users. Nothing is stopping Apple users from using WhatsApp, to message both, most of the World Android users and most of the Apple users (outside the US ).
    williamlondonFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 29
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,595member
    davidw said:
    gatorguy said:
     Isn't support for SMS falling by the wayside, and deprecation set to accelerate? 
    • Microsoft no longer supports SMS for some sign-in types, including new devices and multi-factor authentication
    • Facebook/Meta Messenger will no longer support SMS as of September 28, 2023
    • Signal is removing SMS and MMS support to improve user safety and data protection
    Apple can cling to the insecure SMS as a backup and cross-platform messaging standard as long as they want, and for solely competitive reasons, but they're not doing Apple users any favor by doing so.

    My guess is that, for purely profit reasons, Apple will refuse to make any iMessage protocol changes until law or regulators mandate it. But change they will, and probably sooner rather than later. Any takers on a friendly wager of within 12-16 months (probably less but I'm being generous)?


    By your guess ...... just exactly what profit is Apple protecting by not changing iMessage? 

    Apple themselves revealed how and why https://www.thurrott.com/apple/248931/apple-didnt-bring-imessage-to-android-because-of-its-lock-in-strategy
    ctt_zh
  • Reply 19 of 29
    ctt_zhctt_zh Posts: 83member

    ctt_zh said:
    I presume the EU will mandate this next.
    In Europe most people don't use iMessage and use an app like WhatsApp, so they already enjoy end-to-end encryption regardless of the device. Otherwise the EU mandating it would be an excellent idea! Seriously, I'm sure the EU will mandate interoperability using the forthcoming Messaging Layer Security (MLS) protocol in order to ensure end-to-end encryption between different messaging apps... that would make more sense than focussing on RCS.
    Yeah, that'll be the day when governments start mandating E2E encryption, hahaha.
    Read up on the EU Digital Markets Act's Interoperability Rule.   
    williamlondon
  • Reply 20 of 29
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,754member
    gatorguy said:
    auxio said:
    gatorguy said:
    auxio said:
    gatorguy said:
     Isn't support for SMS falling by the wayside, and deprecation set to accelerate? 
    • Microsoft no longer supports SMS for some sign-in types, including new devices and multi-factor authentication
    • Facebook/Meta Messenger will no longer support SMS as of September 28, 2023
    • Signal is removing SMS and MMS support to improve user safety and data protection
    Apple can cling to the insecure SMS as a backup and cross-platform messaging standard as long as they want, and for solely competitive reasons, but they're not doing Apple users any favor by doing so.

    My guess is that, for purely profit reasons, Apple will refuse to make any iMessage protocol changes until law or regulators mandate it. But change they will, and probably sooner rather than later. Any takers on a friendly wager of within 12-16 months (probably less but I'm being generous)?
    I love when people try to bring in the profit argument. We live in a capitalist world, every company needs profit or they go out of business. So let's analyze Google's profit model.
    I 100% agree with you, but I think you miss or ignore the point: Apple stubbornly clinging to SMS, and refusing to make iMessage cross-platform, has little to nothing to do with the reasons Apple states, essentially "we're doing it for our customers". It's for profit reasons, just as what drives most companies to do what they do.
    And Google being a proponent of open source and standards trying to look like the good guy to the open source community (and customers) is exactly the same thing. At least Apple creates jobs and wealth by funding R&D with their stance. Compare that with Google's approach of avoiding licensing fees and paying for R&D (at least, for things other than customer data harvesting and analysis technology).
    You;re being a bit harsh on the unwillingness of Google to spend research dollars.

    They involve themselves in far more than ad development, but yes it's ads that allow Google to significantly outspend Apple when it comes to research and development; Google R&D spend in 2022 was $31.56 billion (exceeding the total revenue of 128 Fortune 500 firms) compared to Apple's $21.91 billion.

    Apple could spend more if they wanted, and on things that would benefit the greater community at large more. But their interests in advancing technology are not as diverse as Google's, nor does it need to be for Apple to be the most profitable company on the planet. They do pretty good by concentrating on those things they can directly profit from.

    Google has its fingers in a lot of things, including those where there's no clear profit motive. 
    The bigger picture in terms of R&D spend, other than raw numbers, would be: how much R&D has Google eliminated (or helped eliminate) from companies whose business model was creating and licensing technology which Google cloned and owned? Like Java/Sun Microsystems (who yes, was already struggling for other reasons). Or font foundries due to metric compatible clone fonts created by Google. Or purchasing a video codec of questionable origin rather than paying for an MPEG-LA license (VP8). I'm sure I could find plenty more if I really dug into it.

    Apple gets a lot of flack for "sherlocking" small apps, but that's nothing compared to the scale on which Google has done it. And I'd be willing to bet that the fact those companies weren't able to defend themselves has virtually eliminated the industry of creating and licensing technology (software anyway - hardware licensing is still common).

    edited August 2023 danoxFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
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