Apple's market share grows as global smartphone sales hit new low

AppleInsider

Counterpoint Research claims that 2023 is a decade low in smartphone shipments, but also that Apple is closing in on becoming the world's biggest seller.

iPhone 14

Following its report of an incredibly bad smartphone market in July, Counterpoint says the outlook for the rest of 2023 will see the lowest sales in a decade. Its analysts are predicting a decline of 6% year on year, to 1.15 billion devices.

However, even as the worldwide economy is affected, premium smartphones such as the iPhone are proving more successful than lower-cost models. Consequently, Apple is growing its share.

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," Jeff Fieldhack, Research Director for North America said in a statement. "So far this year it's been record low upgrades across all carriers."

"But we're watching Q4 with interest because the iPhone 15 launch is a window for carriers to steal high-value customers," continued Fieldhack. "And with that big iPhone 12 installed base up for grabs promos are going to be aggressive, leaving Apple in a good spot."

Source: Counterpoint

Right now is "the closest Apple has been to the top spot," says Fieldhack. "We're talking about a spread that's literally a few days' worth of sales.

"Assuming Apple doesn't run into production problems like it did last year, it's really a toss up [when Apple will be top] at this point," he said.

Apple is expected to announce its forthcoming iPhone 15 in September.

Read on AppleInsider

waveparticle

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

melgross

waveparticle said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

No, not really. If anything, it’s China that’s been doing that by their actions. At any rate, it’s the worldwide high inflation rate that’s been at the center of all of this. But anaerobic e sales, as you can see from the chart gave been dropping for years. A major reason given is that the worldwide market is saturated. People are go,ding on to phones, tablets, comluters, etc. for a longer time.

waveparticle

melgross said:

waveparticle said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

No, not really. If anything, it’s China that’s been doing that by their actions. At any rate, it’s the worldwide high inflation rate that’s been at the center of all of this. But anaerobic e sales, as you can see from the chart gave been dropping for years. A major reason given is that the worldwide market is saturated. People are go,ding on to phones, tablets, comluters, etc. for a longer time.

No! The fact of the truth is the decoupling started when Huawei is being totally banned by US. 

avon b7

melgross said:

waveparticle said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

No, not really. If anything, it’s China that’s been doing that by their actions. At any rate, it’s the worldwide high inflation rate that’s been at the center of all of this. But anaerobic e sales, as you can see from the chart gave been dropping for years. A major reason given is that the worldwide market is saturated. People are go,ding on to phones, tablets, comluters, etc. for a longer time.

Well, Huawei hit number one in unit shipments just when sanctions were imposed and that had a definite impact. 

It released HarmonyOS for lots of old Huawei China models, effectively breathing new life into them and delaying upgrading of new phones. It also went one step further and introduced a system where users could have their storage capacity upgraded for a nominal price (an excellent move to extend useful life of a device). Battery replacement was also dirt cheap for Huawei users. 

https://www.phonearena.com/news/double-the-storage-on-your-huawei-phone-for-a-small-fee_id138452

256GB to 512GB for a flagship device was less than $140.

The cost of living crisis, inflation and other headwinds aren't helping in the wider market either. 

When you add it all up it makes sense that global unit sales are down. 

Almost a perfect storm. 

wonkothesane

So it seems sales peaked in and around 2017. I would not be surprised that this trend continues for some time, until there is another stepchange in product design; such as a breakthrough in battery tech. Otherwise I suppose we have those customers where money doesn‘t matter so much and they simply take the latest and greatest; while other consumers are stretching out the upgrade cycle, partly bec abuse of lack of „real reasons“, partly because of economic reasons.

tmay

waveparticle said:

melgross said:

waveparticle said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

No, not really. If anything, it’s China that’s been doing that by their actions. At any rate, it’s the worldwide high inflation rate that’s been at the center of all of this. But anaerobic e sales, as you can see from the chart gave been dropping for years. A major reason given is that the worldwide market is saturated. People are go,ding on to phones, tablets, comluters, etc. for a longer time.

No! The fact of the truth is the decoupling started when Huawei is being totally banned by US. 

Interestingly enough, Huawei is so tight with the Chinese Government, that within mere days of Meng Wanzhou's house arrest in Canada, China had charged two Canadians with espionage;

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/25/canadian-pm-trudeau-says-detained-citizens-michael-kovrig-and-michael-spavor-have-left-china

Perfectly encapsulates why Huawei, closely linked to the Chinese Government, should not have any place in Western Telecom infrastructure.

As for decoupling, maybe that has more to to with the Authoritarian government of Xi Jinping.

tmay

avon b7 said:

melgross said:

waveparticle said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

No, not really. If anything, it’s China that’s been doing that by their actions. At any rate, it’s the worldwide high inflation rate that’s been at the center of all of this. But anaerobic e sales, as you can see from the chart gave been dropping for years. A major reason given is that the worldwide market is saturated. People are go,ding on to phones, tablets, comluters, etc. for a longer time.

Well, Huawei hit number one in unit shipments just when sanctions were imposed and that had a definite impact. 

It released HarmonyOS for lots of old Huawei China models, effectively breathing new life into them and delaying upgrading of new phones. It also went one step further and introduced a system where users could have their storage capacity upgraded for a nominal price (an excellent move to extend useful life of a device). Battery replacement was also dirt cheap for Huawei users. 

https://www.phonearena.com/news/double-the-storage-on-your-huawei-phone-for-a-small-fee_id138452

256GB to 512GB for a flagship device was less than $140.

The cost of living crisis, inflation and other headwinds aren't helping in the wider market either. 

When you add it all up it makes sense that global unit sales are down. 

Almost a perfect storm. 

And yet, Apple is notably doing better than its Android OS competitors...

It's true that Huawei was selling a shit ton of low cost phones, almost giving them away (dumping!) to gain marketshare, and frankly, I'm in complete agreement with sanctions on Huawei, given that it is in fact, closely linked with the Chinese Government.

You should also note that China's economy is shit right now, and still, Apple continues to sell iPhones.

waveparticle

tmay said:

waveparticle said:

melgross said:

waveparticle said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

No, not really. If anything, it’s China that’s been doing that by their actions. At any rate, it’s the worldwide high inflation rate that’s been at the center of all of this. But anaerobic e sales, as you can see from the chart gave been dropping for years. A major reason given is that the worldwide market is saturated. People are go,ding on to phones, tablets, comluters, etc. for a longer time.

No! The fact of the truth is the decoupling started when Huawei is being totally banned by US. 

Interestingly enough, Huawei is so tight with the Chinese Government, that within mere days of Meng Wanzhou's house arrest in Canada, China had charged two Canadians with espionage;

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/25/canadian-pm-trudeau-says-detained-citizens-michael-kovrig-and-michael-spavor-have-left-china

Perfectly encapsulates why Huawei, closely linked to the Chinese Government, should not have any place in Western Telecom infrastructure.

As for decoupling, maybe that has more to to with the Authoritarian government of Xi Jinping.

LOL This is your ways of proving things in reverse order. Meng Wanzhou is a Chinese citizen. Why the government should not try to rescue her? And you use this rescue to prove that Huawei is so tight with the Chinese Government. LOL LOL

avon b7

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

melgross said:

waveparticle said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

No, not really. If anything, it’s China that’s been doing that by their actions. At any rate, it’s the worldwide high inflation rate that’s been at the center of all of this. But anaerobic e sales, as you can see from the chart gave been dropping for years. A major reason given is that the worldwide market is saturated. People are go,ding on to phones, tablets, comluters, etc. for a longer time.

Well, Huawei hit number one in unit shipments just when sanctions were imposed and that had a definite impact. 

It released HarmonyOS for lots of old Huawei China models, effectively breathing new life into them and delaying upgrading of new phones. It also went one step further and introduced a system where users could have their storage capacity upgraded for a nominal price (an excellent move to extend useful life of a device). Battery replacement was also dirt cheap for Huawei users. 

https://www.phonearena.com/news/double-the-storage-on-your-huawei-phone-for-a-small-fee_id138452

256GB to 512GB for a flagship device was less than $140.

The cost of living crisis, inflation and other headwinds aren't helping in the wider market either. 

When you add it all up it makes sense that global unit sales are down. 

Almost a perfect storm. 

And yet, Apple is notably doing better than its Android OS competitors...

It's true that Huawei was selling a shit ton of low cost phones, almost giving them away (dumping!) to gain marketshare, and frankly, I'm in complete agreement with sanctions on Huawei, given that it is in fact, closely linked with the Chinese Government.

With Huawei having to deal with extraterritorial sanctions and completely re-jig its supply lines to eliminate US technology and release a new mobile OS and, without ever having access to the US handset market, you should be able to see how that situation favoured Apple greatly. 

Huawei sold a 'shit ton' of everything and was not 'almost giving phones away'.

Not even under sanctions. 

Prices across the board were increasing years prior to the pandemic and Huawei's presence in the utlra low market was symbolic at best. All of its major gains were mid-range and higher. Way up into the premium, ultra premium and beyond (PD models). 

First half year 2023 unit sales are 40% up YoY. For the second quarter of this year, Huawei re-entered the top 5 vendor list in China. 

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prAP51074723

HarmonyOS is now on 700 million devices. 

https://www.chinainternetwatch.com/43109/huawei-harmonyos-devices/#:~:text=Currently, more than 700 million,59 billion times per day.


HarmonyOS NEXT is coming (zero Android code):

https://sparrowsnews.com/2023/08/07/harmonyos-next-hands-on-experience/amp/


The HarmonyOS kernel just received the highest security certification available: 

https://embeddedcomputing.com/technology/security/iec-iso-other-standards/huawei-achieves-eal6-isoiec-15408-standard

It had to write its own ERP software from scratch. An absolutely gargantuan achievement:

https://techwireasia.com/2023/04/huawei-develops-meta-erp/

It has just supposedly broken through a major 5G choke point (BAW-RF filter mass production):

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20230811PD215/5g-china-huawei.html

It has invested heavily in EDA toolchains and supposedly broken through that choke point too:

https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/24/huawei_eda_14nm_chips/

... 

I could go on and on with examples. 

I haven't even touched the HarmonyOS 4 automotive solutions that have just been announced. 

https://www.myfixguide.com/huawei-luxeed-ev-images-revealed/

Or its cloud advances:

https://technode.global/prnasia/20-fold-growth-in-4-years-huawei-cloud-aims-to-have-the-longest-running-and-fastest-growing-cloud-presence-in-southeast-asia/

As you should be able to see by now, Huawei has been very busy but in spite of everything that has been happening over the last three years, earlier this year they said 'sanctions were the new normal' and that they were returning to their usual two flagship per year release cycle. Three or four, if you include folding and flip phones. 

For every single piece of hardware or software that sanctions have forced it to create, US interests have been impacted. 

This is old news now but recent patents on lithography breakthroughs and packaging advances would seem to point in the direction they want to go in:

https://jw.ijiwei.com/n/812998

Now five new phones have just gone through certification and all of them are reported to have 5G.

Apple is going to have a bit more competition to deal with going forward even though it currently still benefits from politically imposed advantages. 

tmay

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

melgross said:

waveparticle said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

No, not really. If anything, it’s China that’s been doing that by their actions. At any rate, it’s the worldwide high inflation rate that’s been at the center of all of this. But anaerobic e sales, as you can see from the chart gave been dropping for years. A major reason given is that the worldwide market is saturated. People are go,ding on to phones, tablets, comluters, etc. for a longer time.

Well, Huawei hit number one in unit shipments just when sanctions were imposed and that had a definite impact. 

It released HarmonyOS for lots of old Huawei China models, effectively breathing new life into them and delaying upgrading of new phones. It also went one step further and introduced a system where users could have their storage capacity upgraded for a nominal price (an excellent move to extend useful life of a device). Battery replacement was also dirt cheap for Huawei users. 

https://www.phonearena.com/news/double-the-storage-on-your-huawei-phone-for-a-small-fee_id138452

256GB to 512GB for a flagship device was less than $140.

The cost of living crisis, inflation and other headwinds aren't helping in the wider market either. 

When you add it all up it makes sense that global unit sales are down. 

Almost a perfect storm. 

And yet, Apple is notably doing better than its Android OS competitors...

It's true that Huawei was selling a shit ton of low cost phones, almost giving them away (dumping!) to gain marketshare, and frankly, I'm in complete agreement with sanctions on Huawei, given that it is in fact, closely linked with the Chinese Government.

With Huawei having to deal with extraterritorial sanctions and completely re-jig its supply lines to eliminate US technology and release a new mobile OS and, without ever having access to the US handset market, you should be able to see how that situation favored Apple greatly. 

Huawei sold a 'shit ton' of everything and was not 'almost giving phones away'.

Not even under sanctions. 

Prices across the board were increasing years prior to the pandemic and Huawei's presence in the utlra low market was symbolic at best. All of its major gains were mid-range and higher. Way up into the premium, ultra premium and beyond (PD models). 

First half year 2023 unit sales are 40% up YoY. For the second quarter of this year, Huawei re-entered the top 5 vendor list in China. 

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prAP51074723

HarmonyOS is now on 700 million devices. 

https://www.chinainternetwatch.com/43109/huawei-harmonyos-devices/#:~:text=Currently, more than 700 million,59 billion times per day.


HarmonyOS NEXT is coming (zero Android code):

https://sparrowsnews.com/2023/08/07/harmonyos-next-hands-on-experience/amp/


The HarmonyOS kernel just received the highest security certification available: 

https://embeddedcomputing.com/technology/security/iec-iso-other-standards/huawei-achieves-eal6-isoiec-15408-standard

It had to write its own ERP software from scratch. An absolutely gargantuan achievement:

https://techwireasia.com/2023/04/huawei-develops-meta-erp/

It has just supposedly broken through a major 5G choke point (BAW-RF filter mass production):

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20230811PD215/5g-china-huawei.html

It has invested heavily in EDA toolchains and supposedly broken through that choke point too:

https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/24/huawei_eda_14nm_chips/

... 

I could go on and on with examples. 

I haven't even touched the HarmonyOS 4 automotive solutions that have just been announced. 

https://www.myfixguide.com/huawei-luxeed-ev-images-revealed/

Or its cloud advances:

https://technode.global/prnasia/20-fold-growth-in-4-years-huawei-cloud-aims-to-have-the-longest-running-and-fastest-growing-cloud-presence-in-southeast-asia/

As you should be able to see by now, Huawei has been very busy but in spite of everything that has been happening over the last three years, earlier this year they said 'sanctions were the new normal' and that they were returning to their usual two flagship per year release cycle. Three or four, if you include folding and flip phones. 

For every single piece of hardware or software that sanctions have forced it to create, US interests have been impacted. 

This is old news now but recent patents on lithography breakthroughs and packaging advances would seem to point in the direction they want to go in:

https://jw.ijiwei.com/n/812998

Now five new phones have just gone through certification and all of them are reported to have 5G.

Apple is going to have a bit more competition to deal with going forward even though it currently still benefits from politically imposed advantages. 

As an aside, 

https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/eu-considers-mandatory-ban-using-huawei-build-5g-ft-2023-06-07/

You seem to approve of everything that EU does, how about the EU instituting a mandatory ban on Huawei in 5G, due to the fact that countries were dragging their feet on removing Huawei voluntarily?

avon b7

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

melgross said:

waveparticle said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

No, not really. If anything, it’s China that’s been doing that by their actions. At any rate, it’s the worldwide high inflation rate that’s been at the center of all of this. But anaerobic e sales, as you can see from the chart gave been dropping for years. A major reason given is that the worldwide market is saturated. People are go,ding on to phones, tablets, comluters, etc. for a longer time.

Well, Huawei hit number one in unit shipments just when sanctions were imposed and that had a definite impact. 

It released HarmonyOS for lots of old Huawei China models, effectively breathing new life into them and delaying upgrading of new phones. It also went one step further and introduced a system where users could have their storage capacity upgraded for a nominal price (an excellent move to extend useful life of a device). Battery replacement was also dirt cheap for Huawei users. 

https://www.phonearena.com/news/double-the-storage-on-your-huawei-phone-for-a-small-fee_id138452

256GB to 512GB for a flagship device was less than $140.

The cost of living crisis, inflation and other headwinds aren't helping in the wider market either. 

When you add it all up it makes sense that global unit sales are down. 

Almost a perfect storm. 

And yet, Apple is notably doing better than its Android OS competitors...

It's true that Huawei was selling a shit ton of low cost phones, almost giving them away (dumping!) to gain marketshare, and frankly, I'm in complete agreement with sanctions on Huawei, given that it is in fact, closely linked with the Chinese Government.

With Huawei having to deal with extraterritorial sanctions and completely re-jig its supply lines to eliminate US technology and release a new mobile OS and, without ever having access to the US handset market, you should be able to see how that situation favored Apple greatly. 

Huawei sold a 'shit ton' of everything and was not 'almost giving phones away'.

Not even under sanctions. 

Prices across the board were increasing years prior to the pandemic and Huawei's presence in the utlra low market was symbolic at best. All of its major gains were mid-range and higher. Way up into the premium, ultra premium and beyond (PD models). 

First half year 2023 unit sales are 40% up YoY. For the second quarter of this year, Huawei re-entered the top 5 vendor list in China. 

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prAP51074723

HarmonyOS is now on 700 million devices. 

https://www.chinainternetwatch.com/43109/huawei-harmonyos-devices/#:~:text=Currently, more than 700 million,59 billion times per day.


HarmonyOS NEXT is coming (zero Android code):

https://sparrowsnews.com/2023/08/07/harmonyos-next-hands-on-experience/amp/


The HarmonyOS kernel just received the highest security certification available: 

https://embeddedcomputing.com/technology/security/iec-iso-other-standards/huawei-achieves-eal6-isoiec-15408-standard

It had to write its own ERP software from scratch. An absolutely gargantuan achievement:

https://techwireasia.com/2023/04/huawei-develops-meta-erp/

It has just supposedly broken through a major 5G choke point (BAW-RF filter mass production):

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20230811PD215/5g-china-huawei.html

It has invested heavily in EDA toolchains and supposedly broken through that choke point too:

https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/24/huawei_eda_14nm_chips/

... 

I could go on and on with examples. 

I haven't even touched the HarmonyOS 4 automotive solutions that have just been announced. 

https://www.myfixguide.com/huawei-luxeed-ev-images-revealed/

Or its cloud advances:

https://technode.global/prnasia/20-fold-growth-in-4-years-huawei-cloud-aims-to-have-the-longest-running-and-fastest-growing-cloud-presence-in-southeast-asia/

As you should be able to see by now, Huawei has been very busy but in spite of everything that has been happening over the last three years, earlier this year they said 'sanctions were the new normal' and that they were returning to their usual two flagship per year release cycle. Three or four, if you include folding and flip phones. 

For every single piece of hardware or software that sanctions have forced it to create, US interests have been impacted. 

This is old news now but recent patents on lithography breakthroughs and packaging advances would seem to point in the direction they want to go in:

https://jw.ijiwei.com/n/812998

Now five new phones have just gone through certification and all of them are reported to have 5G.

Apple is going to have a bit more competition to deal with going forward even though it currently still benefits from politically imposed advantages. 

As an aside, 

https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/eu-considers-mandatory-ban-using-huawei-build-5g-ft-2023-06-07/

You seem to approve of everything that EU does, how about the EU instituting a mandatory ban on Huawei in 5G, due to the fact that countries were dragging their feet on removing Huawei voluntarily?

Yeah! An aside. 

Literally nothing to do with any of this. 

Again. You are needlessly leaning into the full on political angle. 

Most EU countries haven't banned Huawei voluntarily because they see no need to.

Try to stick with the technology/market angle.

Yeah, I get it that the situation is majorly impacted by the political aspect but the centre of this article is not about that. 

waveparticle

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

melgross said:

waveparticle said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

No, not really. If anything, it’s China that’s been doing that by their actions. At any rate, it’s the worldwide high inflation rate that’s been at the center of all of this. But anaerobic e sales, as you can see from the chart gave been dropping for years. A major reason given is that the worldwide market is saturated. People are go,ding on to phones, tablets, comluters, etc. for a longer time.

Well, Huawei hit number one in unit shipments just when sanctions were imposed and that had a definite impact. 

It released HarmonyOS for lots of old Huawei China models, effectively breathing new life into them and delaying upgrading of new phones. It also went one step further and introduced a system where users could have their storage capacity upgraded for a nominal price (an excellent move to extend useful life of a device). Battery replacement was also dirt cheap for Huawei users. 

https://www.phonearena.com/news/double-the-storage-on-your-huawei-phone-for-a-small-fee_id138452

256GB to 512GB for a flagship device was less than $140.

The cost of living crisis, inflation and other headwinds aren't helping in the wider market either. 

When you add it all up it makes sense that global unit sales are down. 

Almost a perfect storm. 

And yet, Apple is notably doing better than its Android OS competitors...

It's true that Huawei was selling a shit ton of low cost phones, almost giving them away (dumping!) to gain marketshare, and frankly, I'm in complete agreement with sanctions on Huawei, given that it is in fact, closely linked with the Chinese Government.

With Huawei having to deal with extraterritorial sanctions and completely re-jig its supply lines to eliminate US technology and release a new mobile OS and, without ever having access to the US handset market, you should be able to see how that situation favored Apple greatly. 

Huawei sold a 'shit ton' of everything and was not 'almost giving phones away'.

Not even under sanctions. 

Prices across the board were increasing years prior to the pandemic and Huawei's presence in the utlra low market was symbolic at best. All of its major gains were mid-range and higher. Way up into the premium, ultra premium and beyond (PD models). 

First half year 2023 unit sales are 40% up YoY. For the second quarter of this year, Huawei re-entered the top 5 vendor list in China. 

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prAP51074723

HarmonyOS is now on 700 million devices. 

https://www.chinainternetwatch.com/43109/huawei-harmonyos-devices/#:~:text=Currently, more than 700 million,59 billion times per day.


HarmonyOS NEXT is coming (zero Android code):

https://sparrowsnews.com/2023/08/07/harmonyos-next-hands-on-experience/amp/


The HarmonyOS kernel just received the highest security certification available: 

https://embeddedcomputing.com/technology/security/iec-iso-other-standards/huawei-achieves-eal6-isoiec-15408-standard

It had to write its own ERP software from scratch. An absolutely gargantuan achievement:

https://techwireasia.com/2023/04/huawei-develops-meta-erp/

It has just supposedly broken through a major 5G choke point (BAW-RF filter mass production):

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20230811PD215/5g-china-huawei.html

It has invested heavily in EDA toolchains and supposedly broken through that choke point too:

https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/24/huawei_eda_14nm_chips/

... 

I could go on and on with examples. 

I haven't even touched the HarmonyOS 4 automotive solutions that have just been announced. 

https://www.myfixguide.com/huawei-luxeed-ev-images-revealed/

Or its cloud advances:

https://technode.global/prnasia/20-fold-growth-in-4-years-huawei-cloud-aims-to-have-the-longest-running-and-fastest-growing-cloud-presence-in-southeast-asia/

As you should be able to see by now, Huawei has been very busy but in spite of everything that has been happening over the last three years, earlier this year they said 'sanctions were the new normal' and that they were returning to their usual two flagship per year release cycle. Three or four, if you include folding and flip phones. 

For every single piece of hardware or software that sanctions have forced it to create, US interests have been impacted. 

This is old news now but recent patents on lithography breakthroughs and packaging advances would seem to point in the direction they want to go in:

https://jw.ijiwei.com/n/812998

Now five new phones have just gone through certification and all of them are reported to have 5G.

Apple is going to have a bit more competition to deal with going forward even though it currently still benefits from politically imposed advantages. 

As an aside, 

https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/eu-considers-mandatory-ban-using-huawei-build-5g-ft-2023-06-07/

You seem to approve of everything that EU does, how about the EU instituting a mandatory ban on Huawei in 5G, due to the fact that countries were dragging their feet on removing Huawei voluntarily?

Yeah! An aside. 

Literally nothing to do with any of this. 

Again. You are needlessly leaning into the full on political angle. 

Most EU countries haven't banned Huawei voluntarily because they see no need to.

Try to stick with the technology/market angle.

Yeah, I get it that the situation is majorly impacted by the political aspect but the centre of this article is not about that. 

Is it true that in EU an action needs unanimous approval of all nations in it? 

FileMakerFeller

AppleInsider said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," Jeff Fieldhack, Research Director for North America said in a statement.

That statement is a load of garbage. What's been happening in the economy is very much driving phone purchasing behaviour; the divergence is between corporate expectations of a steadily (albeit slowly) growing market and the observed behaviour of consumers proving that the growth phase is over.

It's also interesting that this person believes the majority of iPhone upgrades are happening on a three-year cycle. This seems to be tied to the leasing agreement lengths; ten years ago I was paying off the device over 24 months but when I bought my iPhone 11 Pro the lease option was for 36 months because the device was comparatively much more expensive.

tmay

FileMakerFeller said:

AppleInsider said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," Jeff Fieldhack, Research Director for North America said in a statement.

That statement is a load of garbage. What's been happening in the economy is very much driving phone purchasing behaviour; the divergence is between corporate expectations of a steadily (albeit slowly) growing market and the observed behaviour of consumers proving that the growth phase is over.

It's also interesting that this person believes the majority of iPhone upgrades are happening on a three-year cycle. This seems to be tied to the leasing agreement lengths; ten years ago I was paying off the device over 24 months but when I bought my iPhone 11 Pro the lease option was for 36 months because the device was comparatively much more expensive.

I think that the story is that the carriers see this as an opportunity to gain some customers from their competitors, and that they are willing to give some sweet deals to make that happen. Of course, they will all have some plan that is "better" than their competitors, but it looks like a buyers market to the consumers.

avon b7

waveparticle said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

melgross said:

waveparticle said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

No, not really. If anything, it’s China that’s been doing that by their actions. At any rate, it’s the worldwide high inflation rate that’s been at the center of all of this. But anaerobic e sales, as you can see from the chart gave been dropping for years. A major reason given is that the worldwide market is saturated. People are go,ding on to phones, tablets, comluters, etc. for a longer time.

Well, Huawei hit number one in unit shipments just when sanctions were imposed and that had a definite impact. 

It released HarmonyOS for lots of old Huawei China models, effectively breathing new life into them and delaying upgrading of new phones. It also went one step further and introduced a system where users could have their storage capacity upgraded for a nominal price (an excellent move to extend useful life of a device). Battery replacement was also dirt cheap for Huawei users. 

https://www.phonearena.com/news/double-the-storage-on-your-huawei-phone-for-a-small-fee_id138452

256GB to 512GB for a flagship device was less than $140.

The cost of living crisis, inflation and other headwinds aren't helping in the wider market either. 

When you add it all up it makes sense that global unit sales are down. 

Almost a perfect storm. 

And yet, Apple is notably doing better than its Android OS competitors...

It's true that Huawei was selling a shit ton of low cost phones, almost giving them away (dumping!) to gain marketshare, and frankly, I'm in complete agreement with sanctions on Huawei, given that it is in fact, closely linked with the Chinese Government.

With Huawei having to deal with extraterritorial sanctions and completely re-jig its supply lines to eliminate US technology and release a new mobile OS and, without ever having access to the US handset market, you should be able to see how that situation favored Apple greatly. 

Huawei sold a 'shit ton' of everything and was not 'almost giving phones away'.

Not even under sanctions. 

Prices across the board were increasing years prior to the pandemic and Huawei's presence in the utlra low market was symbolic at best. All of its major gains were mid-range and higher. Way up into the premium, ultra premium and beyond (PD models). 

First half year 2023 unit sales are 40% up YoY. For the second quarter of this year, Huawei re-entered the top 5 vendor list in China. 

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prAP51074723

HarmonyOS is now on 700 million devices. 

https://www.chinainternetwatch.com/43109/huawei-harmonyos-devices/#:~:text=Currently, more than 700 million,59 billion times per day.


HarmonyOS NEXT is coming (zero Android code):

https://sparrowsnews.com/2023/08/07/harmonyos-next-hands-on-experience/amp/


The HarmonyOS kernel just received the highest security certification available: 

https://embeddedcomputing.com/technology/security/iec-iso-other-standards/huawei-achieves-eal6-isoiec-15408-standard

It had to write its own ERP software from scratch. An absolutely gargantuan achievement:

https://techwireasia.com/2023/04/huawei-develops-meta-erp/

It has just supposedly broken through a major 5G choke point (BAW-RF filter mass production):

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20230811PD215/5g-china-huawei.html

It has invested heavily in EDA toolchains and supposedly broken through that choke point too:

https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/24/huawei_eda_14nm_chips/

... 

I could go on and on with examples. 

I haven't even touched the HarmonyOS 4 automotive solutions that have just been announced. 

https://www.myfixguide.com/huawei-luxeed-ev-images-revealed/

Or its cloud advances:

https://technode.global/prnasia/20-fold-growth-in-4-years-huawei-cloud-aims-to-have-the-longest-running-and-fastest-growing-cloud-presence-in-southeast-asia/

As you should be able to see by now, Huawei has been very busy but in spite of everything that has been happening over the last three years, earlier this year they said 'sanctions were the new normal' and that they were returning to their usual two flagship per year release cycle. Three or four, if you include folding and flip phones. 

For every single piece of hardware or software that sanctions have forced it to create, US interests have been impacted. 

This is old news now but recent patents on lithography breakthroughs and packaging advances would seem to point in the direction they want to go in:

https://jw.ijiwei.com/n/812998

Now five new phones have just gone through certification and all of them are reported to have 5G.

Apple is going to have a bit more competition to deal with going forward even though it currently still benefits from politically imposed advantages. 

As an aside, 

https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/eu-considers-mandatory-ban-using-huawei-build-5g-ft-2023-06-07/

You seem to approve of everything that EU does, how about the EU instituting a mandatory ban on Huawei in 5G, due to the fact that countries were dragging their feet on removing Huawei voluntarily?

Yeah! An aside. 

Literally nothing to do with any of this. 

Again. You are needlessly leaning into the full on political angle. 

Most EU countries haven't banned Huawei voluntarily because they see no need to.

Try to stick with the technology/market angle.

Yeah, I get it that the situation is majorly impacted by the political aspect but the centre of this article is not about that. 

Is it true that in EU an action needs unanimous approval of all nations in it? 

I believe that in the ordinary legislative procedure, majority votes are all that are needed but depending on the course the approval process takes, sometimes unamity is required. 

tmay

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

melgross said:

waveparticle said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

No, not really. If anything, it’s China that’s been doing that by their actions. At any rate, it’s the worldwide high inflation rate that’s been at the center of all of this. But anaerobic e sales, as you can see from the chart gave been dropping for years. A major reason given is that the worldwide market is saturated. People are go,ding on to phones, tablets, comluters, etc. for a longer time.

Well, Huawei hit number one in unit shipments just when sanctions were imposed and that had a definite impact. 

It released HarmonyOS for lots of old Huawei China models, effectively breathing new life into them and delaying upgrading of new phones. It also went one step further and introduced a system where users could have their storage capacity upgraded for a nominal price (an excellent move to extend useful life of a device). Battery replacement was also dirt cheap for Huawei users. 

https://www.phonearena.com/news/double-the-storage-on-your-huawei-phone-for-a-small-fee_id138452

256GB to 512GB for a flagship device was less than $140.

The cost of living crisis, inflation and other headwinds aren't helping in the wider market either. 

When you add it all up it makes sense that global unit sales are down. 

Almost a perfect storm. 

And yet, Apple is notably doing better than its Android OS competitors...

It's true that Huawei was selling a shit ton of low cost phones, almost giving them away (dumping!) to gain marketshare, and frankly, I'm in complete agreement with sanctions on Huawei, given that it is in fact, closely linked with the Chinese Government.

With Huawei having to deal with extraterritorial sanctions and completely re-jig its supply lines to eliminate US technology and release a new mobile OS and, without ever having access to the US handset market, you should be able to see how that situation favored Apple greatly. 

Huawei sold a 'shit ton' of everything and was not 'almost giving phones away'.

Not even under sanctions. 

Prices across the board were increasing years prior to the pandemic and Huawei's presence in the utlra low market was symbolic at best. All of its major gains were mid-range and higher. Way up into the premium, ultra premium and beyond (PD models). 

First half year 2023 unit sales are 40% up YoY. For the second quarter of this year, Huawei re-entered the top 5 vendor list in China. 

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prAP51074723

HarmonyOS is now on 700 million devices. 

https://www.chinainternetwatch.com/43109/huawei-harmonyos-devices/#:~:text=Currently, more than 700 million,59 billion times per day.


HarmonyOS NEXT is coming (zero Android code):

https://sparrowsnews.com/2023/08/07/harmonyos-next-hands-on-experience/amp/


The HarmonyOS kernel just received the highest security certification available: 

https://embeddedcomputing.com/technology/security/iec-iso-other-standards/huawei-achieves-eal6-isoiec-15408-standard

It had to write its own ERP software from scratch. An absolutely gargantuan achievement:

https://techwireasia.com/2023/04/huawei-develops-meta-erp/

It has just supposedly broken through a major 5G choke point (BAW-RF filter mass production):

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20230811PD215/5g-china-huawei.html

It has invested heavily in EDA toolchains and supposedly broken through that choke point too:

https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/24/huawei_eda_14nm_chips/

... 

I could go on and on with examples. 

I haven't even touched the HarmonyOS 4 automotive solutions that have just been announced. 

https://www.myfixguide.com/huawei-luxeed-ev-images-revealed/

Or its cloud advances:

https://technode.global/prnasia/20-fold-growth-in-4-years-huawei-cloud-aims-to-have-the-longest-running-and-fastest-growing-cloud-presence-in-southeast-asia/

As you should be able to see by now, Huawei has been very busy but in spite of everything that has been happening over the last three years, earlier this year they said 'sanctions were the new normal' and that they were returning to their usual two flagship per year release cycle. Three or four, if you include folding and flip phones. 

For every single piece of hardware or software that sanctions have forced it to create, US interests have been impacted. 

This is old news now but recent patents on lithography breakthroughs and packaging advances would seem to point in the direction they want to go in:

https://jw.ijiwei.com/n/812998

Now five new phones have just gone through certification and all of them are reported to have 5G.

Apple is going to have a bit more competition to deal with going forward even though it currently still benefits from politically imposed advantages. 

As an aside, 

https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/eu-considers-mandatory-ban-using-huawei-build-5g-ft-2023-06-07/

You seem to approve of everything that EU does, how about the EU instituting a mandatory ban on Huawei in 5G, due to the fact that countries were dragging their feet on removing Huawei voluntarily?

Yeah! An aside. 

Literally nothing to do with any of this. 

Again. You are needlessly leaning into the full on political angle. 

Most EU countries haven't banned Huawei voluntarily because they see no need to.

Try to stick with the technology/market angle.

Yeah, I get it that the situation is majorly impacted by the political aspect but the centre of this article is not about that. 

You might want to consider that the U.S. has restricted Tech Investment into China, with more restriction on the way, so "do it yourself" supported by massive government subsidies, is certainly what is happening, but I doubt that China is going to catch up without access to US technology. But sure, Huawei has figured out a way to use the limited 7nm tech in China to build its own 5G modems, which doesn't translate to catching up with the West in semicoductor manufacturing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovvQdCmnCLo&list=RDCMUCsy9I56PY3IngCf_VGjunMQ&start_radio=1

More to the point, China's economy is stalled.

avon b7

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

melgross said:

waveparticle said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

No, not really. If anything, it’s China that’s been doing that by their actions. At any rate, it’s the worldwide high inflation rate that’s been at the center of all of this. But anaerobic e sales, as you can see from the chart gave been dropping for years. A major reason given is that the worldwide market is saturated. People are go,ding on to phones, tablets, comluters, etc. for a longer time.

Well, Huawei hit number one in unit shipments just when sanctions were imposed and that had a definite impact. 

It released HarmonyOS for lots of old Huawei China models, effectively breathing new life into them and delaying upgrading of new phones. It also went one step further and introduced a system where users could have their storage capacity upgraded for a nominal price (an excellent move to extend useful life of a device). Battery replacement was also dirt cheap for Huawei users. 

https://www.phonearena.com/news/double-the-storage-on-your-huawei-phone-for-a-small-fee_id138452

256GB to 512GB for a flagship device was less than $140.

The cost of living crisis, inflation and other headwinds aren't helping in the wider market either. 

When you add it all up it makes sense that global unit sales are down. 

Almost a perfect storm. 

And yet, Apple is notably doing better than its Android OS competitors...

It's true that Huawei was selling a shit ton of low cost phones, almost giving them away (dumping!) to gain marketshare, and frankly, I'm in complete agreement with sanctions on Huawei, given that it is in fact, closely linked with the Chinese Government.

With Huawei having to deal with extraterritorial sanctions and completely re-jig its supply lines to eliminate US technology and release a new mobile OS and, without ever having access to the US handset market, you should be able to see how that situation favored Apple greatly. 

Huawei sold a 'shit ton' of everything and was not 'almost giving phones away'.

Not even under sanctions. 

Prices across the board were increasing years prior to the pandemic and Huawei's presence in the utlra low market was symbolic at best. All of its major gains were mid-range and higher. Way up into the premium, ultra premium and beyond (PD models). 

First half year 2023 unit sales are 40% up YoY. For the second quarter of this year, Huawei re-entered the top 5 vendor list in China. 

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prAP51074723

HarmonyOS is now on 700 million devices. 

https://www.chinainternetwatch.com/43109/huawei-harmonyos-devices/#:~:text=Currently, more than 700 million,59 billion times per day.


HarmonyOS NEXT is coming (zero Android code):

https://sparrowsnews.com/2023/08/07/harmonyos-next-hands-on-experience/amp/


The HarmonyOS kernel just received the highest security certification available: 

https://embeddedcomputing.com/technology/security/iec-iso-other-standards/huawei-achieves-eal6-isoiec-15408-standard

It had to write its own ERP software from scratch. An absolutely gargantuan achievement:

https://techwireasia.com/2023/04/huawei-develops-meta-erp/

It has just supposedly broken through a major 5G choke point (BAW-RF filter mass production):

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20230811PD215/5g-china-huawei.html

It has invested heavily in EDA toolchains and supposedly broken through that choke point too:

https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/24/huawei_eda_14nm_chips/

... 

I could go on and on with examples. 

I haven't even touched the HarmonyOS 4 automotive solutions that have just been announced. 

https://www.myfixguide.com/huawei-luxeed-ev-images-revealed/

Or its cloud advances:

https://technode.global/prnasia/20-fold-growth-in-4-years-huawei-cloud-aims-to-have-the-longest-running-and-fastest-growing-cloud-presence-in-southeast-asia/

As you should be able to see by now, Huawei has been very busy but in spite of everything that has been happening over the last three years, earlier this year they said 'sanctions were the new normal' and that they were returning to their usual two flagship per year release cycle. Three or four, if you include folding and flip phones. 

For every single piece of hardware or software that sanctions have forced it to create, US interests have been impacted. 

This is old news now but recent patents on lithography breakthroughs and packaging advances would seem to point in the direction they want to go in:

https://jw.ijiwei.com/n/812998

Now five new phones have just gone through certification and all of them are reported to have 5G.

Apple is going to have a bit more competition to deal with going forward even though it currently still benefits from politically imposed advantages. 

As an aside, 

https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/eu-considers-mandatory-ban-using-huawei-build-5g-ft-2023-06-07/

You seem to approve of everything that EU does, how about the EU instituting a mandatory ban on Huawei in 5G, due to the fact that countries were dragging their feet on removing Huawei voluntarily?

Yeah! An aside. 

Literally nothing to do with any of this. 

Again. You are needlessly leaning into the full on political angle. 

Most EU countries haven't banned Huawei voluntarily because they see no need to.

Try to stick with the technology/market angle.

Yeah, I get it that the situation is majorly impacted by the political aspect but the centre of this article is not about that. 

You might want to consider that the U.S. has restricted Tech Investment into China, with more restriction on the way, so "do it yourself" supported by massive government subsidies, is certainly what is happening, but I doubt that China is going to catch up without access to US technology. But sure, Huawei has figured out a way to use the limited 7nm tech in China to build its own 5G modems, which doesn't translate to catching up with the West in semicoductor manufacturing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovvQdCmnCLo&list=RDCMUCsy9I56PY3IngCf_VGjunMQ&start_radio=1

More to the point, China's economy is stalled.

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

melgross said:

waveparticle said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

No, not really. If anything, it’s China that’s been doing that by their actions. At any rate, it’s the worldwide high inflation rate that’s been at the center of all of this. But anaerobic e sales, as you can see from the chart gave been dropping for years. A major reason given is that the worldwide market is saturated. People are go,ding on to phones, tablets, comluters, etc. for a longer time.

Well, Huawei hit number one in unit shipments just when sanctions were imposed and that had a definite impact. 

It released HarmonyOS for lots of old Huawei China models, effectively breathing new life into them and delaying upgrading of new phones. It also went one step further and introduced a system where users could have their storage capacity upgraded for a nominal price (an excellent move to extend useful life of a device). Battery replacement was also dirt cheap for Huawei users. 

https://www.phonearena.com/news/double-the-storage-on-your-huawei-phone-for-a-small-fee_id138452

256GB to 512GB for a flagship device was less than $140.

The cost of living crisis, inflation and other headwinds aren't helping in the wider market either. 

When you add it all up it makes sense that global unit sales are down. 

Almost a perfect storm. 

And yet, Apple is notably doing better than its Android OS competitors...

It's true that Huawei was selling a shit ton of low cost phones, almost giving them away (dumping!) to gain marketshare, and frankly, I'm in complete agreement with sanctions on Huawei, given that it is in fact, closely linked with the Chinese Government.

With Huawei having to deal with extraterritorial sanctions and completely re-jig its supply lines to eliminate US technology and release a new mobile OS and, without ever having access to the US handset market, you should be able to see how that situation favored Apple greatly. 

Huawei sold a 'shit ton' of everything and was not 'almost giving phones away'.

Not even under sanctions. 

Prices across the board were increasing years prior to the pandemic and Huawei's presence in the utlra low market was symbolic at best. All of its major gains were mid-range and higher. Way up into the premium, ultra premium and beyond (PD models). 

First half year 2023 unit sales are 40% up YoY. For the second quarter of this year, Huawei re-entered the top 5 vendor list in China. 

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prAP51074723

HarmonyOS is now on 700 million devices. 

https://www.chinainternetwatch.com/43109/huawei-harmonyos-devices/#:~:text=Currently, more than 700 million,59 billion times per day.


HarmonyOS NEXT is coming (zero Android code):

https://sparrowsnews.com/2023/08/07/harmonyos-next-hands-on-experience/amp/


The HarmonyOS kernel just received the highest security certification available: 

https://embeddedcomputing.com/technology/security/iec-iso-other-standards/huawei-achieves-eal6-isoiec-15408-standard

It had to write its own ERP software from scratch. An absolutely gargantuan achievement:

https://techwireasia.com/2023/04/huawei-develops-meta-erp/

It has just supposedly broken through a major 5G choke point (BAW-RF filter mass production):

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20230811PD215/5g-china-huawei.html

It has invested heavily in EDA toolchains and supposedly broken through that choke point too:

https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/24/huawei_eda_14nm_chips/

... 

I could go on and on with examples. 

I haven't even touched the HarmonyOS 4 automotive solutions that have just been announced. 

https://www.myfixguide.com/huawei-luxeed-ev-images-revealed/

Or its cloud advances:

https://technode.global/prnasia/20-fold-growth-in-4-years-huawei-cloud-aims-to-have-the-longest-running-and-fastest-growing-cloud-presence-in-southeast-asia/

As you should be able to see by now, Huawei has been very busy but in spite of everything that has been happening over the last three years, earlier this year they said 'sanctions were the new normal' and that they were returning to their usual two flagship per year release cycle. Three or four, if you include folding and flip phones. 

For every single piece of hardware or software that sanctions have forced it to create, US interests have been impacted. 

This is old news now but recent patents on lithography breakthroughs and packaging advances would seem to point in the direction they want to go in:

https://jw.ijiwei.com/n/812998

Now five new phones have just gone through certification and all of them are reported to have 5G.

Apple is going to have a bit more competition to deal with going forward even though it currently still benefits from politically imposed advantages. 

As an aside, 

https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/eu-considers-mandatory-ban-using-huawei-build-5g-ft-2023-06-07/

You seem to approve of everything that EU does, how about the EU instituting a mandatory ban on Huawei in 5G, due to the fact that countries were dragging their feet on removing Huawei voluntarily?

Yeah! An aside. 

Literally nothing to do with any of this. 

Again. You are needlessly leaning into the full on political angle. 

Most EU countries haven't banned Huawei voluntarily because they see no need to.

Try to stick with the technology/market angle.

Yeah, I get it that the situation is majorly impacted by the political aspect but the centre of this article is not about that. 

You might want to consider that the U.S. has restricted Tech Investment into China, with more restriction on the way, so "do it yourself" supported by massive government subsidies, is certainly what is happening, but I doubt that China is going to catch up without access to US technology. But sure, Huawei has figured out a way to use the limited 7nm tech in China to build its own 5G modems, which doesn't translate to catching up with the West in semicoductor manufacturing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovvQdCmnCLo&list=RDCMUCsy9I56PY3IngCf_VGjunMQ&start_radio=1

More to the point, China's economy is stalled.

Wow!

You thought that was a valid technology statement? 

He made a huge mistake that shows he doesn't know what he's talking about.

tmay

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

melgross said:

waveparticle said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

No, not really. If anything, it’s China that’s been doing that by their actions. At any rate, it’s the worldwide high inflation rate that’s been at the center of all of this. But anaerobic e sales, as you can see from the chart gave been dropping for years. A major reason given is that the worldwide market is saturated. People are go,ding on to phones, tablets, comluters, etc. for a longer time.

Well, Huawei hit number one in unit shipments just when sanctions were imposed and that had a definite impact. 

It released HarmonyOS for lots of old Huawei China models, effectively breathing new life into them and delaying upgrading of new phones. It also went one step further and introduced a system where users could have their storage capacity upgraded for a nominal price (an excellent move to extend useful life of a device). Battery replacement was also dirt cheap for Huawei users. 

https://www.phonearena.com/news/double-the-storage-on-your-huawei-phone-for-a-small-fee_id138452

256GB to 512GB for a flagship device was less than $140.

The cost of living crisis, inflation and other headwinds aren't helping in the wider market either. 

When you add it all up it makes sense that global unit sales are down. 

Almost a perfect storm. 

And yet, Apple is notably doing better than its Android OS competitors...

It's true that Huawei was selling a shit ton of low cost phones, almost giving them away (dumping!) to gain marketshare, and frankly, I'm in complete agreement with sanctions on Huawei, given that it is in fact, closely linked with the Chinese Government.

With Huawei having to deal with extraterritorial sanctions and completely re-jig its supply lines to eliminate US technology and release a new mobile OS and, without ever having access to the US handset market, you should be able to see how that situation favored Apple greatly. 

Huawei sold a 'shit ton' of everything and was not 'almost giving phones away'.

Not even under sanctions. 

Prices across the board were increasing years prior to the pandemic and Huawei's presence in the utlra low market was symbolic at best. All of its major gains were mid-range and higher. Way up into the premium, ultra premium and beyond (PD models). 

First half year 2023 unit sales are 40% up YoY. For the second quarter of this year, Huawei re-entered the top 5 vendor list in China. 

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prAP51074723

HarmonyOS is now on 700 million devices. 

https://www.chinainternetwatch.com/43109/huawei-harmonyos-devices/#:~:text=Currently, more than 700 million,59 billion times per day.


HarmonyOS NEXT is coming (zero Android code):

https://sparrowsnews.com/2023/08/07/harmonyos-next-hands-on-experience/amp/


The HarmonyOS kernel just received the highest security certification available: 

https://embeddedcomputing.com/technology/security/iec-iso-other-standards/huawei-achieves-eal6-isoiec-15408-standard

It had to write its own ERP software from scratch. An absolutely gargantuan achievement:

https://techwireasia.com/2023/04/huawei-develops-meta-erp/

It has just supposedly broken through a major 5G choke point (BAW-RF filter mass production):

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20230811PD215/5g-china-huawei.html

It has invested heavily in EDA toolchains and supposedly broken through that choke point too:

https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/24/huawei_eda_14nm_chips/

... 

I could go on and on with examples. 

I haven't even touched the HarmonyOS 4 automotive solutions that have just been announced. 

https://www.myfixguide.com/huawei-luxeed-ev-images-revealed/

Or its cloud advances:

https://technode.global/prnasia/20-fold-growth-in-4-years-huawei-cloud-aims-to-have-the-longest-running-and-fastest-growing-cloud-presence-in-southeast-asia/

As you should be able to see by now, Huawei has been very busy but in spite of everything that has been happening over the last three years, earlier this year they said 'sanctions were the new normal' and that they were returning to their usual two flagship per year release cycle. Three or four, if you include folding and flip phones. 

For every single piece of hardware or software that sanctions have forced it to create, US interests have been impacted. 

This is old news now but recent patents on lithography breakthroughs and packaging advances would seem to point in the direction they want to go in:

https://jw.ijiwei.com/n/812998

Now five new phones have just gone through certification and all of them are reported to have 5G.

Apple is going to have a bit more competition to deal with going forward even though it currently still benefits from politically imposed advantages. 

As an aside, 

https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/eu-considers-mandatory-ban-using-huawei-build-5g-ft-2023-06-07/

You seem to approve of everything that EU does, how about the EU instituting a mandatory ban on Huawei in 5G, due to the fact that countries were dragging their feet on removing Huawei voluntarily?

Yeah! An aside. 

Literally nothing to do with any of this. 

Again. You are needlessly leaning into the full on political angle. 

Most EU countries haven't banned Huawei voluntarily because they see no need to.

Try to stick with the technology/market angle.

Yeah, I get it that the situation is majorly impacted by the political aspect but the centre of this article is not about that. 

You might want to consider that the U.S. has restricted Tech Investment into China, with more restriction on the way, so "do it yourself" supported by massive government subsidies, is certainly what is happening, but I doubt that China is going to catch up without access to US technology. But sure, Huawei has figured out a way to use the limited 7nm tech in China to build its own 5G modems, which doesn't translate to catching up with the West in semicoductor manufacturing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovvQdCmnCLo&list=RDCMUCsy9I56PY3IngCf_VGjunMQ&start_radio=1

More to the point, China's economy is stalled.

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

melgross said:

waveparticle said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

No, not really. If anything, it’s China that’s been doing that by their actions. At any rate, it’s the worldwide high inflation rate that’s been at the center of all of this. But anaerobic e sales, as you can see from the chart gave been dropping for years. A major reason given is that the worldwide market is saturated. People are go,ding on to phones, tablets, comluters, etc. for a longer time.

Well, Huawei hit number one in unit shipments just when sanctions were imposed and that had a definite impact. 

It released HarmonyOS for lots of old Huawei China models, effectively breathing new life into them and delaying upgrading of new phones. It also went one step further and introduced a system where users could have their storage capacity upgraded for a nominal price (an excellent move to extend useful life of a device). Battery replacement was also dirt cheap for Huawei users. 

https://www.phonearena.com/news/double-the-storage-on-your-huawei-phone-for-a-small-fee_id138452

256GB to 512GB for a flagship device was less than $140.

The cost of living crisis, inflation and other headwinds aren't helping in the wider market either. 

When you add it all up it makes sense that global unit sales are down. 

Almost a perfect storm. 

And yet, Apple is notably doing better than its Android OS competitors...

It's true that Huawei was selling a shit ton of low cost phones, almost giving them away (dumping!) to gain marketshare, and frankly, I'm in complete agreement with sanctions on Huawei, given that it is in fact, closely linked with the Chinese Government.

With Huawei having to deal with extraterritorial sanctions and completely re-jig its supply lines to eliminate US technology and release a new mobile OS and, without ever having access to the US handset market, you should be able to see how that situation favored Apple greatly. 

Huawei sold a 'shit ton' of everything and was not 'almost giving phones away'.

Not even under sanctions. 

Prices across the board were increasing years prior to the pandemic and Huawei's presence in the utlra low market was symbolic at best. All of its major gains were mid-range and higher. Way up into the premium, ultra premium and beyond (PD models). 

First half year 2023 unit sales are 40% up YoY. For the second quarter of this year, Huawei re-entered the top 5 vendor list in China. 

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prAP51074723

HarmonyOS is now on 700 million devices. 

https://www.chinainternetwatch.com/43109/huawei-harmonyos-devices/#:~:text=Currently, more than 700 million,59 billion times per day.


HarmonyOS NEXT is coming (zero Android code):

https://sparrowsnews.com/2023/08/07/harmonyos-next-hands-on-experience/amp/


The HarmonyOS kernel just received the highest security certification available: 

https://embeddedcomputing.com/technology/security/iec-iso-other-standards/huawei-achieves-eal6-isoiec-15408-standard

It had to write its own ERP software from scratch. An absolutely gargantuan achievement:

https://techwireasia.com/2023/04/huawei-develops-meta-erp/

It has just supposedly broken through a major 5G choke point (BAW-RF filter mass production):

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20230811PD215/5g-china-huawei.html

It has invested heavily in EDA toolchains and supposedly broken through that choke point too:

https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/24/huawei_eda_14nm_chips/

... 

I could go on and on with examples. 

I haven't even touched the HarmonyOS 4 automotive solutions that have just been announced. 

https://www.myfixguide.com/huawei-luxeed-ev-images-revealed/

Or its cloud advances:

https://technode.global/prnasia/20-fold-growth-in-4-years-huawei-cloud-aims-to-have-the-longest-running-and-fastest-growing-cloud-presence-in-southeast-asia/

As you should be able to see by now, Huawei has been very busy but in spite of everything that has been happening over the last three years, earlier this year they said 'sanctions were the new normal' and that they were returning to their usual two flagship per year release cycle. Three or four, if you include folding and flip phones. 

For every single piece of hardware or software that sanctions have forced it to create, US interests have been impacted. 

This is old news now but recent patents on lithography breakthroughs and packaging advances would seem to point in the direction they want to go in:

https://jw.ijiwei.com/n/812998

Now five new phones have just gone through certification and all of them are reported to have 5G.

Apple is going to have a bit more competition to deal with going forward even though it currently still benefits from politically imposed advantages. 

As an aside, 

https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/eu-considers-mandatory-ban-using-huawei-build-5g-ft-2023-06-07/

You seem to approve of everything that EU does, how about the EU instituting a mandatory ban on Huawei in 5G, due to the fact that countries were dragging their feet on removing Huawei voluntarily?

Yeah! An aside. 

Literally nothing to do with any of this. 

Again. You are needlessly leaning into the full on political angle. 

Most EU countries haven't banned Huawei voluntarily because they see no need to.

Try to stick with the technology/market angle.

Yeah, I get it that the situation is majorly impacted by the political aspect but the centre of this article is not about that. 

You might want to consider that the U.S. has restricted Tech Investment into China, with more restriction on the way, so "do it yourself" supported by massive government subsidies, is certainly what is happening, but I doubt that China is going to catch up without access to US technology. But sure, Huawei has figured out a way to use the limited 7nm tech in China to build its own 5G modems, which doesn't translate to catching up with the West in semicoductor manufacturing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovvQdCmnCLo&list=RDCMUCsy9I56PY3IngCf_VGjunMQ&start_radio=1

More to the point, China's economy is stalled.

Wow!

You thought that was a valid technology statement? 

He made a huge mistake that shows he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Really, and what would that "huge mistake" be?

No matter how you yourself look at it, China is three generations behind the West in semiconductors, and even reverse engineering as much Western tech as possible, they aren't going to be able to catch up very fast, if ever. 

For me, it's even obvious that the EU's France and Germany, whose trade is so intertwined with China, are going to have to begin pulling back. 

avon b7

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

melgross said:

waveparticle said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

No, not really. If anything, it’s China that’s been doing that by their actions. At any rate, it’s the worldwide high inflation rate that’s been at the center of all of this. But anaerobic e sales, as you can see from the chart gave been dropping for years. A major reason given is that the worldwide market is saturated. People are go,ding on to phones, tablets, comluters, etc. for a longer time.

Well, Huawei hit number one in unit shipments just when sanctions were imposed and that had a definite impact. 

It released HarmonyOS for lots of old Huawei China models, effectively breathing new life into them and delaying upgrading of new phones. It also went one step further and introduced a system where users could have their storage capacity upgraded for a nominal price (an excellent move to extend useful life of a device). Battery replacement was also dirt cheap for Huawei users. 

https://www.phonearena.com/news/double-the-storage-on-your-huawei-phone-for-a-small-fee_id138452

256GB to 512GB for a flagship device was less than $140.

The cost of living crisis, inflation and other headwinds aren't helping in the wider market either. 

When you add it all up it makes sense that global unit sales are down. 

Almost a perfect storm. 

And yet, Apple is notably doing better than its Android OS competitors...

It's true that Huawei was selling a shit ton of low cost phones, almost giving them away (dumping!) to gain marketshare, and frankly, I'm in complete agreement with sanctions on Huawei, given that it is in fact, closely linked with the Chinese Government.

With Huawei having to deal with extraterritorial sanctions and completely re-jig its supply lines to eliminate US technology and release a new mobile OS and, without ever having access to the US handset market, you should be able to see how that situation favored Apple greatly. 

Huawei sold a 'shit ton' of everything and was not 'almost giving phones away'.

Not even under sanctions. 

Prices across the board were increasing years prior to the pandemic and Huawei's presence in the utlra low market was symbolic at best. All of its major gains were mid-range and higher. Way up into the premium, ultra premium and beyond (PD models). 

First half year 2023 unit sales are 40% up YoY. For the second quarter of this year, Huawei re-entered the top 5 vendor list in China. 

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prAP51074723

HarmonyOS is now on 700 million devices. 

https://www.chinainternetwatch.com/43109/huawei-harmonyos-devices/#:~:text=Currently, more than 700 million,59 billion times per day.


HarmonyOS NEXT is coming (zero Android code):

https://sparrowsnews.com/2023/08/07/harmonyos-next-hands-on-experience/amp/


The HarmonyOS kernel just received the highest security certification available: 

https://embeddedcomputing.com/technology/security/iec-iso-other-standards/huawei-achieves-eal6-isoiec-15408-standard

It had to write its own ERP software from scratch. An absolutely gargantuan achievement:

https://techwireasia.com/2023/04/huawei-develops-meta-erp/

It has just supposedly broken through a major 5G choke point (BAW-RF filter mass production):

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20230811PD215/5g-china-huawei.html

It has invested heavily in EDA toolchains and supposedly broken through that choke point too:

https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/24/huawei_eda_14nm_chips/

... 

I could go on and on with examples. 

I haven't even touched the HarmonyOS 4 automotive solutions that have just been announced. 

https://www.myfixguide.com/huawei-luxeed-ev-images-revealed/

Or its cloud advances:

https://technode.global/prnasia/20-fold-growth-in-4-years-huawei-cloud-aims-to-have-the-longest-running-and-fastest-growing-cloud-presence-in-southeast-asia/

As you should be able to see by now, Huawei has been very busy but in spite of everything that has been happening over the last three years, earlier this year they said 'sanctions were the new normal' and that they were returning to their usual two flagship per year release cycle. Three or four, if you include folding and flip phones. 

For every single piece of hardware or software that sanctions have forced it to create, US interests have been impacted. 

This is old news now but recent patents on lithography breakthroughs and packaging advances would seem to point in the direction they want to go in:

https://jw.ijiwei.com/n/812998

Now five new phones have just gone through certification and all of them are reported to have 5G.

Apple is going to have a bit more competition to deal with going forward even though it currently still benefits from politically imposed advantages. 

As an aside, 

https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/eu-considers-mandatory-ban-using-huawei-build-5g-ft-2023-06-07/

You seem to approve of everything that EU does, how about the EU instituting a mandatory ban on Huawei in 5G, due to the fact that countries were dragging their feet on removing Huawei voluntarily?

Yeah! An aside. 

Literally nothing to do with any of this. 

Again. You are needlessly leaning into the full on political angle. 

Most EU countries haven't banned Huawei voluntarily because they see no need to.

Try to stick with the technology/market angle.

Yeah, I get it that the situation is majorly impacted by the political aspect but the centre of this article is not about that. 

You might want to consider that the U.S. has restricted Tech Investment into China, with more restriction on the way, so "do it yourself" supported by massive government subsidies, is certainly what is happening, but I doubt that China is going to catch up without access to US technology. But sure, Huawei has figured out a way to use the limited 7nm tech in China to build its own 5G modems, which doesn't translate to catching up with the West in semicoductor manufacturing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovvQdCmnCLo&list=RDCMUCsy9I56PY3IngCf_VGjunMQ&start_radio=1

More to the point, China's economy is stalled.

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

melgross said:

waveparticle said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

No, not really. If anything, it’s China that’s been doing that by their actions. At any rate, it’s the worldwide high inflation rate that’s been at the center of all of this. But anaerobic e sales, as you can see from the chart gave been dropping for years. A major reason given is that the worldwide market is saturated. People are go,ding on to phones, tablets, comluters, etc. for a longer time.

Well, Huawei hit number one in unit shipments just when sanctions were imposed and that had a definite impact. 

It released HarmonyOS for lots of old Huawei China models, effectively breathing new life into them and delaying upgrading of new phones. It also went one step further and introduced a system where users could have their storage capacity upgraded for a nominal price (an excellent move to extend useful life of a device). Battery replacement was also dirt cheap for Huawei users. 

https://www.phonearena.com/news/double-the-storage-on-your-huawei-phone-for-a-small-fee_id138452

256GB to 512GB for a flagship device was less than $140.

The cost of living crisis, inflation and other headwinds aren't helping in the wider market either. 

When you add it all up it makes sense that global unit sales are down. 

Almost a perfect storm. 

And yet, Apple is notably doing better than its Android OS competitors...

It's true that Huawei was selling a shit ton of low cost phones, almost giving them away (dumping!) to gain marketshare, and frankly, I'm in complete agreement with sanctions on Huawei, given that it is in fact, closely linked with the Chinese Government.

With Huawei having to deal with extraterritorial sanctions and completely re-jig its supply lines to eliminate US technology and release a new mobile OS and, without ever having access to the US handset market, you should be able to see how that situation favored Apple greatly. 

Huawei sold a 'shit ton' of everything and was not 'almost giving phones away'.

Not even under sanctions. 

Prices across the board were increasing years prior to the pandemic and Huawei's presence in the utlra low market was symbolic at best. All of its major gains were mid-range and higher. Way up into the premium, ultra premium and beyond (PD models). 

First half year 2023 unit sales are 40% up YoY. For the second quarter of this year, Huawei re-entered the top 5 vendor list in China. 

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prAP51074723

HarmonyOS is now on 700 million devices. 

https://www.chinainternetwatch.com/43109/huawei-harmonyos-devices/#:~:text=Currently, more than 700 million,59 billion times per day.


HarmonyOS NEXT is coming (zero Android code):

https://sparrowsnews.com/2023/08/07/harmonyos-next-hands-on-experience/amp/


The HarmonyOS kernel just received the highest security certification available: 

https://embeddedcomputing.com/technology/security/iec-iso-other-standards/huawei-achieves-eal6-isoiec-15408-standard

It had to write its own ERP software from scratch. An absolutely gargantuan achievement:

https://techwireasia.com/2023/04/huawei-develops-meta-erp/

It has just supposedly broken through a major 5G choke point (BAW-RF filter mass production):

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20230811PD215/5g-china-huawei.html

It has invested heavily in EDA toolchains and supposedly broken through that choke point too:

https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/24/huawei_eda_14nm_chips/

... 

I could go on and on with examples. 

I haven't even touched the HarmonyOS 4 automotive solutions that have just been announced. 

https://www.myfixguide.com/huawei-luxeed-ev-images-revealed/

Or its cloud advances:

https://technode.global/prnasia/20-fold-growth-in-4-years-huawei-cloud-aims-to-have-the-longest-running-and-fastest-growing-cloud-presence-in-southeast-asia/

As you should be able to see by now, Huawei has been very busy but in spite of everything that has been happening over the last three years, earlier this year they said 'sanctions were the new normal' and that they were returning to their usual two flagship per year release cycle. Three or four, if you include folding and flip phones. 

For every single piece of hardware or software that sanctions have forced it to create, US interests have been impacted. 

This is old news now but recent patents on lithography breakthroughs and packaging advances would seem to point in the direction they want to go in:

https://jw.ijiwei.com/n/812998

Now five new phones have just gone through certification and all of them are reported to have 5G.

Apple is going to have a bit more competition to deal with going forward even though it currently still benefits from politically imposed advantages. 

As an aside, 

https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/eu-considers-mandatory-ban-using-huawei-build-5g-ft-2023-06-07/

You seem to approve of everything that EU does, how about the EU instituting a mandatory ban on Huawei in 5G, due to the fact that countries were dragging their feet on removing Huawei voluntarily?

Yeah! An aside. 

Literally nothing to do with any of this. 

Again. You are needlessly leaning into the full on political angle. 

Most EU countries haven't banned Huawei voluntarily because they see no need to.

Try to stick with the technology/market angle.

Yeah, I get it that the situation is majorly impacted by the political aspect but the centre of this article is not about that. 

You might want to consider that the U.S. has restricted Tech Investment into China, with more restriction on the way, so "do it yourself" supported by massive government subsidies, is certainly what is happening, but I doubt that China is going to catch up without access to US technology. But sure, Huawei has figured out a way to use the limited 7nm tech in China to build its own 5G modems, which doesn't translate to catching up with the West in semicoductor manufacturing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovvQdCmnCLo&list=RDCMUCsy9I56PY3IngCf_VGjunMQ&start_radio=1

More to the point, China's economy is stalled.

Wow!

You thought that was a valid technology statement? 

He made a huge mistake that shows he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Really, and what would that "huge mistake" be?

No matter how you yourself look at it, China is three generations behind the West in semiconductors, and even reverse engineering as much Western tech as possible, they aren't going to be able to catch up very fast, if ever. 

For me, it's even obvious that the EU's France and Germany, whose trade is so intertwined with China, are going to have to begin pulling back. 

Thanks for confirming you didn't see it either. It was a simple mistake to make but the thing is, in these cases, if you're going to make big claims on YouTube or anywhere with a big potential audience, you really should be dotting your 'I's. 

He implied that the US didn't want China to best it in semicoductors. 

That's not a claim anyone should be making 'unqualified' because it's very hard to tackle without qualification.

But he did it. And so did you! 

Let's rewind a bit. 

It was you who said China would take a very long time to advance on process nodes. 

When TechInsights picked up on SMIC's manufacturing of 7nm node chipsets the key takeaway was NOT that it was an expensive, low yield effort. 

It sent shockwaves through the US and the EU for a different reason and that was clearly spelled out in the report.

The key takeaway was that NO EU or US company had anything to match it. 

Let that sink in for a while. 

They were already behind! 

Your man from YouTube quite literally dropped the ball on that. 

The US is NOT the world. The US is majorly, heavily and utterly dependent on non-US technologies from places like Holland and Taiwan. 

And even if a tiny percentage of that final machinery does contain a sliver of US based technology, weaponising it is only going to backfire and I have yet to see anyone outside the US administration even say the contrary. All the tech people (from ASML etc) have said it won't work. 

The other point they raised was that China had 'officially' gone from 14nm to 7nm in just TWO YEARS.

Let me be frank. The news really put the cat amongst the pigeons. 

And then I was lucky enough to read a separate industry report that pointed out that if China were to refocus all its current capacity onto 7nm, it would outstrip both TSMC and Samsung - combined! 

Your man wasn't talking about the 'West'. He was talking about the US! And since when is Taiwan the West? 

You are very confused. 

TSMC would love to do business with Huawei. The problem isn't TSMC or Taiwan, it is the US trying to weaponise technology. 

But the technology aspect doesn't end there. Have you heard of Industry 4.0?

The so called fourth industrial revolution? 

Completely reliant on cutting edge ICT roll outs in industry - ALL INDUSTRIES. 

Remind me where the US is with 5G. 5.5G. 6G.

You see? They are nowhere once again and Industry 4.0 is the future.

Behind again! 

Your man thinks the US must stop China getting ahead but in key areas, that ship has sailed. 

More technology insight for you:

How much of the world's chipset output is actually on the cutting edge nodes? 

Come on, give it a stab? 

I think you know where I'm going here. 

The world ticks by on older, more mature and above all, cheaper nodes. Nowhere near 3nm!

That has always been the case. 

Right now, you could even argue that demand for the cutting edge nodes is slowing too. We already had a 'new' iPhone with 'last year's chipset' and we already know prices of the latest nodes are on the up. 

Let me throw something at the wall, and later this year or next, we'll see if it sticks. 

I've been saying for a couple of years now that Huawei's first move to avoid sanctions regarding chip fabrication would probably involve Chip stacking. 

There is a LOT of evidence out there pointing to that. But let's be clear. The goal is not to best a 3nm chip. The goal is to get a product that is free of sanctions onto the market - and then to make it better (quickly!). A competitive offering. 

Believe me. The semi conductor association of America wrote to the White House on numerous occasions pleading for careful sanctions for a reason. For a very good reason. 

It depends on China, in a large part, for the revenues it needs for future R&D!

The White House even invited them over recently and promised to listen. 

Cutting China off is 'bread for today and hunger for tomorrow' as they say in Spain. 

So your man on YouTube failed to spot what was going on with technology. 

Qualcomm said at its recent earnings call that it would see no new 'material revenue' from Huawei going forward. 

That's not great for US business. We already know it will lose Apple at some point too. 

China has literally been forced to go it alone and is now having to accelerate those plans and it's doing it from home. 

Money and efficiency won't be so important if they are pushed. Didn't they just stick over 19 million cores on a Sunway? LOL. 
 
South Korea recently went on record (at a very high level) saying that it basically should not be asked to take sides as it would be damaging for everyone. 

Anyway. One last question for your internet man. 

How far away does he think the 'post silicon era' is and who will lead in that? 

Answers on a postcard to the White House please!

tmay

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

melgross said:

waveparticle said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

No, not really. If anything, it’s China that’s been doing that by their actions. At any rate, it’s the worldwide high inflation rate that’s been at the center of all of this. But anaerobic e sales, as you can see from the chart gave been dropping for years. A major reason given is that the worldwide market is saturated. People are go,ding on to phones, tablets, comluters, etc. for a longer time.

Well, Huawei hit number one in unit shipments just when sanctions were imposed and that had a definite impact. 

It released HarmonyOS for lots of old Huawei China models, effectively breathing new life into them and delaying upgrading of new phones. It also went one step further and introduced a system where users could have their storage capacity upgraded for a nominal price (an excellent move to extend useful life of a device). Battery replacement was also dirt cheap for Huawei users. 

https://www.phonearena.com/news/double-the-storage-on-your-huawei-phone-for-a-small-fee_id138452

256GB to 512GB for a flagship device was less than $140.

The cost of living crisis, inflation and other headwinds aren't helping in the wider market either. 

When you add it all up it makes sense that global unit sales are down. 

Almost a perfect storm. 

And yet, Apple is notably doing better than its Android OS competitors...

It's true that Huawei was selling a shit ton of low cost phones, almost giving them away (dumping!) to gain marketshare, and frankly, I'm in complete agreement with sanctions on Huawei, given that it is in fact, closely linked with the Chinese Government.

With Huawei having to deal with extraterritorial sanctions and completely re-jig its supply lines to eliminate US technology and release a new mobile OS and, without ever having access to the US handset market, you should be able to see how that situation favored Apple greatly. 

Huawei sold a 'shit ton' of everything and was not 'almost giving phones away'.

Not even under sanctions. 

Prices across the board were increasing years prior to the pandemic and Huawei's presence in the utlra low market was symbolic at best. All of its major gains were mid-range and higher. Way up into the premium, ultra premium and beyond (PD models). 

First half year 2023 unit sales are 40% up YoY. For the second quarter of this year, Huawei re-entered the top 5 vendor list in China. 

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prAP51074723

HarmonyOS is now on 700 million devices. 

https://www.chinainternetwatch.com/43109/huawei-harmonyos-devices/#:~:text=Currently, more than 700 million,59 billion times per day.


HarmonyOS NEXT is coming (zero Android code):

https://sparrowsnews.com/2023/08/07/harmonyos-next-hands-on-experience/amp/


The HarmonyOS kernel just received the highest security certification available: 

https://embeddedcomputing.com/technology/security/iec-iso-other-standards/huawei-achieves-eal6-isoiec-15408-standard

It had to write its own ERP software from scratch. An absolutely gargantuan achievement:

https://techwireasia.com/2023/04/huawei-develops-meta-erp/

It has just supposedly broken through a major 5G choke point (BAW-RF filter mass production):

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20230811PD215/5g-china-huawei.html

It has invested heavily in EDA toolchains and supposedly broken through that choke point too:

https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/24/huawei_eda_14nm_chips/

... 

I could go on and on with examples. 

I haven't even touched the HarmonyOS 4 automotive solutions that have just been announced. 

https://www.myfixguide.com/huawei-luxeed-ev-images-revealed/

Or its cloud advances:

https://technode.global/prnasia/20-fold-growth-in-4-years-huawei-cloud-aims-to-have-the-longest-running-and-fastest-growing-cloud-presence-in-southeast-asia/

As you should be able to see by now, Huawei has been very busy but in spite of everything that has been happening over the last three years, earlier this year they said 'sanctions were the new normal' and that they were returning to their usual two flagship per year release cycle. Three or four, if you include folding and flip phones. 

For every single piece of hardware or software that sanctions have forced it to create, US interests have been impacted. 

This is old news now but recent patents on lithography breakthroughs and packaging advances would seem to point in the direction they want to go in:

https://jw.ijiwei.com/n/812998

Now five new phones have just gone through certification and all of them are reported to have 5G.

Apple is going to have a bit more competition to deal with going forward even though it currently still benefits from politically imposed advantages. 

As an aside, 

https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/eu-considers-mandatory-ban-using-huawei-build-5g-ft-2023-06-07/

You seem to approve of everything that EU does, how about the EU instituting a mandatory ban on Huawei in 5G, due to the fact that countries were dragging their feet on removing Huawei voluntarily?

Yeah! An aside. 

Literally nothing to do with any of this. 

Again. You are needlessly leaning into the full on political angle. 

Most EU countries haven't banned Huawei voluntarily because they see no need to.

Try to stick with the technology/market angle.

Yeah, I get it that the situation is majorly impacted by the political aspect but the centre of this article is not about that. 

You might want to consider that the U.S. has restricted Tech Investment into China, with more restriction on the way, so "do it yourself" supported by massive government subsidies, is certainly what is happening, but I doubt that China is going to catch up without access to US technology. But sure, Huawei has figured out a way to use the limited 7nm tech in China to build its own 5G modems, which doesn't translate to catching up with the West in semicoductor manufacturing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovvQdCmnCLo&list=RDCMUCsy9I56PY3IngCf_VGjunMQ&start_radio=1

More to the point, China's economy is stalled.

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

melgross said:

waveparticle said:

"There's been a decoupling between what's happening in the economy and consumers buying phones," 

The decoupling is caused by US government trying to decouple China from the world. 

No, not really. If anything, it’s China that’s been doing that by their actions. At any rate, it’s the worldwide high inflation rate that’s been at the center of all of this. But anaerobic e sales, as you can see from the chart gave been dropping for years. A major reason given is that the worldwide market is saturated. People are go,ding on to phones, tablets, comluters, etc. for a longer time.

Well, Huawei hit number one in unit shipments just when sanctions were imposed and that had a definite impact. 

It released HarmonyOS for lots of old Huawei China models, effectively breathing new life into them and delaying upgrading of new phones. It also went one step further and introduced a system where users could have their storage capacity upgraded for a nominal price (an excellent move to extend useful life of a device). Battery replacement was also dirt cheap for Huawei users. 

https://www.phonearena.com/news/double-the-storage-on-your-huawei-phone-for-a-small-fee_id138452

256GB to 512GB for a flagship device was less than $140.

The cost of living crisis, inflation and other headwinds aren't helping in the wider market either. 

When you add it all up it makes sense that global unit sales are down. 

Almost a perfect storm. 

And yet, Apple is notably doing better than its Android OS competitors...

It's true that Huawei was selling a shit ton of low cost phones, almost giving them away (dumping!) to gain marketshare, and frankly, I'm in complete agreement with sanctions on Huawei, given that it is in fact, closely linked with the Chinese Government.

With Huawei having to deal with extraterritorial sanctions and completely re-jig its supply lines to eliminate US technology and release a new mobile OS and, without ever having access to the US handset market, you should be able to see how that situation favored Apple greatly. 

Huawei sold a 'shit ton' of everything and was not 'almost giving phones away'.

Not even under sanctions. 

Prices across the board were increasing years prior to the pandemic and Huawei's presence in the utlra low market was symbolic at best. All of its major gains were mid-range and higher. Way up into the premium, ultra premium and beyond (PD models). 

First half year 2023 unit sales are 40% up YoY. For the second quarter of this year, Huawei re-entered the top 5 vendor list in China. 

https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prAP51074723

HarmonyOS is now on 700 million devices. 

https://www.chinainternetwatch.com/43109/huawei-harmonyos-devices/#:~:text=Currently, more than 700 million,59 billion times per day.


HarmonyOS NEXT is coming (zero Android code):

https://sparrowsnews.com/2023/08/07/harmonyos-next-hands-on-experience/amp/


The HarmonyOS kernel just received the highest security certification available: 

https://embeddedcomputing.com/technology/security/iec-iso-other-standards/huawei-achieves-eal6-isoiec-15408-standard

It had to write its own ERP software from scratch. An absolutely gargantuan achievement:

https://techwireasia.com/2023/04/huawei-develops-meta-erp/

It has just supposedly broken through a major 5G choke point (BAW-RF filter mass production):

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20230811PD215/5g-china-huawei.html

It has invested heavily in EDA toolchains and supposedly broken through that choke point too:

https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/24/huawei_eda_14nm_chips/

... 

I could go on and on with examples. 

I haven't even touched the HarmonyOS 4 automotive solutions that have just been announced. 

https://www.myfixguide.com/huawei-luxeed-ev-images-revealed/

Or its cloud advances:

https://technode.global/prnasia/20-fold-growth-in-4-years-huawei-cloud-aims-to-have-the-longest-running-and-fastest-growing-cloud-presence-in-southeast-asia/

As you should be able to see by now, Huawei has been very busy but in spite of everything that has been happening over the last three years, earlier this year they said 'sanctions were the new normal' and that they were returning to their usual two flagship per year release cycle. Three or four, if you include folding and flip phones. 

For every single piece of hardware or software that sanctions have forced it to create, US interests have been impacted. 

This is old news now but recent patents on lithography breakthroughs and packaging advances would seem to point in the direction they want to go in:

https://jw.ijiwei.com/n/812998

Now five new phones have just gone through certification and all of them are reported to have 5G.

Apple is going to have a bit more competition to deal with going forward even though it currently still benefits from politically imposed advantages. 

As an aside, 

https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/eu-considers-mandatory-ban-using-huawei-build-5g-ft-2023-06-07/

You seem to approve of everything that EU does, how about the EU instituting a mandatory ban on Huawei in 5G, due to the fact that countries were dragging their feet on removing Huawei voluntarily?

Yeah! An aside. 

Literally nothing to do with any of this. 

Again. You are needlessly leaning into the full on political angle. 

Most EU countries haven't banned Huawei voluntarily because they see no need to.

Try to stick with the technology/market angle.

Yeah, I get it that the situation is majorly impacted by the political aspect but the centre of this article is not about that. 

You might want to consider that the U.S. has restricted Tech Investment into China, with more restriction on the way, so "do it yourself" supported by massive government subsidies, is certainly what is happening, but I doubt that China is going to catch up without access to US technology. But sure, Huawei has figured out a way to use the limited 7nm tech in China to build its own 5G modems, which doesn't translate to catching up with the West in semicoductor manufacturing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovvQdCmnCLo&list=RDCMUCsy9I56PY3IngCf_VGjunMQ&start_radio=1

More to the point, China's economy is stalled.

Wow!

You thought that was a valid technology statement? 

He made a huge mistake that shows he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Really, and what would that "huge mistake" be?

No matter how you yourself look at it, China is three generations behind the West in semiconductors, and even reverse engineering as much Western tech as possible, they aren't going to be able to catch up very fast, if ever. 

For me, it's even obvious that the EU's France and Germany, whose trade is so intertwined with China, are going to have to begin pulling back. 

Thanks for confirming you didn't see it either. It was a simple mistake to make but the thing is, in these cases, if you're going to make big claims on YouTube or anywhere with a big potential audience, you really should be dotting your 'I's. 

He implied that the US didn't want China to best it in semicoductors. 

That's not a claim anyone should be making 'unqualified' because it's very hard to tackle without qualification.

But he did it. And so did you! 

Let's rewind a bit. 

It was you who said China would take a very long time to advance on process nodes. 

When TechInsights picked up on SMIC's manufacturing of 7nm node chipsets the key takeaway was NOT that it was an expensive, low yield effort. 

It sent shockwaves through the US and the EU for a different reason and that was clearly spelled out in the report.

The key takeaway was that NO EU or US company had anything to match it. 

Let that sink in for a while. 

They were already behind! 

Your man from YouTube quite literally dropped the ball on that. 

The US is NOT the world. The US is majorly, heavily and utterly dependent on non-US technologies from places like Holland and Taiwan. 

And even if a tiny percentage of that final machinery does contain a sliver of US based technology, weaponising it is only going to backfire and I have yet to see anyone outside the US administration even say the contrary. 

The other point they raised was that China had 'officially' gone from 14nm to 7nm in just TWO YEARS.

Let me be frank. The news really put the cat amongst the pigeons. 

And then I was lucky enough to read a separate industry report that pointed out that if China were to refocus all its current capacity onto 7nm, it would outstrip TSMC and Samsung - combined! 

But the technology aspect doesn't end there. Have you heard of Industry 4.0?

The so called fourth industrial revolution? 

Completely reliant on cutting edge ICT roll outs in industry - ALL INDUSTRY. 

Remind me where the US is with 5G. 5.5G. 6G.

You see? They are nowhere once again and Industry 4.0 is the future.

Your man thinks the US must stop China getting ahead but in key areas, that ship has sailed. 

More technology insight for you. 

How much of the world's chipset output is on the cutting edge nodes? 

Come on, give it a stab? 

I think you know where I'm going here. 

The world ticks by on older, more mature and above all, cheaper nodes.

That has always been the case. 

Right now, you could even argue that demand for the cutting edge nodes is slowing too. We already had a new iPhone with 'last year's chipset' and we already know prices of the latest nodes are on the up. 

Let me throw something at the wall and later this year or next, we'll see if it sticks. 

I've been saying for a couple of years now that Huawei's first move to avoid sanctions regarding chip fabrication would probably involve Chip stacking. 

There is a LOT of evidence out there pointing to that. But let's be clear. The goal is not to best a 3nm chip. The goal is to get a product that is free of sanctions onto the market - and then to make it better (quickly!). 

Believe me. The semi conductor association of America wrote to the White House on numerous occasions pleading for careful sanctions for a reason. For a very good reason. 

It depends on China in a large part, for the revenues it needs for future R&D. 

The White House even invited them over recently. 

Cutting China off is bread for today and hunger for tomorrow. 

So your man on YouTube failed to spot what was going on with technology. 

Qualcomm said at its recent earnings call that it would see no new 'material revenue' from Huawei going forward. 

That's not great for US business. We already know it will lose Apple at some point too. 

China has literally been forced to go it alone and is now having to accelerate those plans and it's doing it from home. 

South Korea recently went on record (at a very high level) saying that it basically should not be asked to take sides as it would be damaging for everyone. 

Anyway. One last question for your internet man. 

How far away does he think the 'post silicon era' is and who will lead in that? 

Answers on a postcard to the White House please!

"get a better product free of sanctions into the market, and the make it better (quickly)

Good luck with that, and a "post silicon era" that favors China, good luck with that as well.

China has peaked economically, and that isn't hyperbole, that's fact, and with their rapidly aging population and huge youth unemployment, good luck on transitioning to a consumer driven economy.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/14/china-economy-new-loans-fall-property-fears-low-consumer-sentiment-.html#