Tim Cook defends Apple against greenwashing accusation

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in iPhone

Apple CEO Tim Cook says greenwashing "is reprehensible" and has shown environmental journalists around the company's previously secret data center.

Apple CEO Tim Cook
Apple CEO Tim Cook



It's another in a series of Tim Cook's post-iPhone 15 launch interviews, but it was rather more substantive than when he was asked which color phone he'd got. This time, media company Brut. (spelt with a period and unrelated to the aftershave), pressed Cook on the environment, starting with buyers don't really need a new iPhone every year.

"I think having an iPhone every year for those people that want it is a great thing," said Cook. "And what we do is we allow people to trade in their phone... and so we then resell that phone if it's still working."

"And if it's not working, we've got ways of disassembling it," he continued, "and taking the materials to make a new iPhone out of."

The interview took place at an Apple data center in Denmark. It's reportedly the first time that Apple has welcomed journalists to the site, where it has previously avoided commenting on the data center.

"We are a very secretive company with our products," said Cook, actually pulling his hands and arms in toward his chest to emphasize the point. "So we want to keep our products to ourselves until they're ready to announce and then announce those to the world and describe those."

"[However, the] environment," he continued. "[It] is different with our initiatives like the environment. We want to be very open because we want to be copied."

Gesturing at the rows of solar panels on the ground surrounding the data center, he said that "we want people to be able to look at this field that we're in today and say 'I can do that too.'"

"We want to be the ripple in the pond that other people can look at and copy," said Cook, "and [that] makes much more effect from an environmental point of view."

Carbon neurtrality through alleged greenwashing



Brut's interviewer criticized Cook's repeated use of the term "carbon neutral," saying that it was close to meaningless. But Cook defended it, saying that in Apple's case it meant taking action, rather than attempting to "greenwash" by deceptively using cheaper ways of offsetting carbon usage.

"I'd invite anybody to look at how we're defining it on our website because what we're doing is doing the hard work to lower our footprint dramatically," he said, "and then whatever is left over after doing all of these actions we offset with with high-quality offsets like managed forests and managed grasslands that pull carbon from the atmosphere."

"But what our objective is to eliminate as much as possible prior to doing that," he continued.

"Greenwashing is reprehensible," said Cook. "And so what if you think about what we're doing, we're doing the work and then saying what we're doing."

"And you're standing in part of the work today [in this field of solar panels], so there's a real proof point," he continued. "The fact that there's 30 percent recycled material on the watch, that's a proof point."

"All of these things are actions that we've taken and they all add up to now a carbon neutral Watch [in certain configurations]," said Cook. " And by 2030, a carbon neutral products across the board."

Cook would not be drawn on the future of the iPhone -- except to say that it will be carbon neutral. He did, though, say that Apple's long-standing ambition to be carbon neutral by 2030 is 20 years ahead of the Paris Accords.

Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 15
    All this accusation about 'Green-washing' is a bunch of baloney. 'Red-washing' is what needs to be looked at. A counter-revolutionary element attempting to derail the transition to going green properly causing this unfounded press. Vigilantly finding out where that is coming from and end it; so everyone can come together resolve the carbon issue. There is this push by those that say they are for climate neutrality trying to actually stop it. Why would those in Denmark want that? Something very odd is happening in that part of the world. Does it have to do with that part of the world not manufacturing or building anything of value and only having 'words' to criticize stop expression and hurt those that 'really' want to help. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 15
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,763member
    @WineCorr The reality is that companies trying to compete with Apple will stoop to whatever means necessary to try and make Apple look bad. Instead of actually investing in resources and brain power to compete with their products, they'd rather pay mass marketing companies to create misinformation campaigns. Sadly, because this seems to be effective on the large number people without critical thinking and analytical skills these days (just as it is with political campaigns around the world), it'll keep happening.
    Bart Y9secondkox2watto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 15
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,181member
    auxio said:
    @WineCorr The reality is that companies trying to compete with Apple will stoop to whatever means necessary to try and make Apple look bad. Instead of actually investing in resources and brain power to compete with their products, they'd rather pay mass marketing companies to create misinformation campaigns. Sadly, because this seems to be effective on the large number people without critical thinking and analytical skills these days (just as it is with political campaigns around the world), it'll keep happening.
    To @WineCorr's point, I think it's entirely possible that this is more than just competitors trying to damage Apple's reputation.

    Nihilism is a key disinformation tactic when trying to undermine whole concepts like mitigation of climate change. By casting doubt on actual, meaningful actions being taken to reduce the carbon footprint of a large industry, it not only creates room for competitors to save costs by doing nothing, it undermines the goal of carbon neutrality itself. If consumers can be convinced that even the supposed 'good guys' are just faking it, they can then be convinced not to use their power of consumer choice to purchase products from companies that take responsibility and internalize their environmental costs. So a disinformation campaign to claim Apple is "greenwashing" not only benefits competitors who can sell their wares for less because they externalize their environmental impact costs, it also benefits every other industry that benefits when everyone thinks that facts and opinions have equal value and everyone is lying anyway, so don't expect better. Just buy whatever's cheapest and easiest when you don't think about it.
    9secondkox2watto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 15
    thttht Posts: 5,698member
    This time, media company Brut. (spelt with a period and unrelated to the aftershave), pressed Cook on the environment, starting with buyers don't really need a new iPhone every year.
    This question is utterly stupid. I've seen variants of this type of question many times and it remains stupid. 95% of the market doesn't buy a new phone every year. It's typically something like 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 years. The new phones are for people who have paid off their phone or have used the phone for half a decade or more. Don't understand why people keep bring it up. It's like asking why automakers have new car models every year.

    Then, the question is functionally not different then asking why people buy another product of something every year. Apple doesn't have a new iPhone model. People wanting a new phone will still get a "new" phone. The consumerism doesn't stop. In other words, I have a set of knives I want to replace. I buy a new set a knives that haven't been updated for 20 years. Same model set being sold for 20 years. It's still the same carbon footprint. A set of knives still need to be made and put into stores for me to buy.

    The point is to get to carbon neutral products, and for something like Apple, get to a close cycle system of production. Then, there will need to be incentives to get to carbon negative after all that is achieved.

    The questions about carbon offsets are too generic. They need to ask Apple to prove that these carbon credits are actually pulling CO2 out of the air and putting them into the ground.
    Bart Ywatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 15
    tht said:
    This time, media company Brut. (spelt with a period and unrelated to the aftershave), pressed Cook on the environment, starting with buyers don't really need a new iPhone every year.
    This question is utterly stupid. I've seen variants of this type of question many times and it remains stupid. 95% of the market doesn't buy a new phone every year. It's typically something like 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 years. The new phones are for people who have paid off their phone or have used the phone for half a decade or more. Don't understand why people keep bring it up. It's like asking why automakers have new car models every year.

    Then, the question is functionally not different then asking why people buy another product of something every year. Apple doesn't have a new iPhone model. People wanting a new phone will still get a "new" phone. The consumerism doesn't stop. In other words, I have a set of knives I want to replace. I buy a new set a knives that haven't been updated for 20 years. Same model set being sold for 20 years. It's still the same carbon footprint. A set of knives still need to be made and put into stores for me to buy.

    The point is to get to carbon neutral products, and for something like Apple, get to a close cycle system of production. Then, there will need to be incentives to get to carbon negative after all that is achieved.

    The questions about carbon offsets are too generic. They need to ask Apple to prove that these carbon credits are actually pulling CO2 out of the air and putting them into the ground.
    Apple actually promotes an annual iPhone upgrade program:

    https://www.apple.com/shop/iphone/iphone-upgrade-program
  • Reply 6 of 15
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,650member
    tht said:
    This time, media company Brut. (spelt with a period and unrelated to the aftershave), pressed Cook on the environment, starting with buyers don't really need a new iPhone every year.
    This question is utterly stupid. I've seen variants of this type of question many times and it remains stupid. 95% of the market doesn't buy a new phone every year. 
    https://www.slashgear.com/970484/a-surprising-number-of-people-we-polled-said-they-upgrade-their-phone-every-year/
  • Reply 7 of 15
    thttht Posts: 5,698member
    gatorguy said:
    tht said:
    This time, media company Brut. (spelt with a period and unrelated to the aftershave), pressed Cook on the environment, starting with buyers don't really need a new iPhone every year.
    This question is utterly stupid. I've seen variants of this type of question many times and it remains stupid. 95% of the market doesn't buy a new phone every year. 
    https://www.slashgear.com/970484/a-surprising-number-of-people-we-polled-said-they-upgrade-their-phone-every-year/
    Quote from the article: Meanwhile, a whopping 11.89% of respondents declared that they upgrade once a year, while 4.28% admitted to getting a new phone once every 6 months.

    There's definitely self selection bias with 631 respondents to a poll from a tech website. That's their hobby. They aren't 10% of the market. 1% maybe. I'd put it down another order of magnitude to 0.1% of the overall market.
    Bart Ywatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 15
    thttht Posts: 5,698member
    tht said:
    This time, media company Brut. (spelt with a period and unrelated to the aftershave), pressed Cook on the environment, starting with buyers don't really need a new iPhone every year.
    This question is utterly stupid. I've seen variants of this type of question many times and it remains stupid. 95% of the market doesn't buy a new phone every year. It's typically something like 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 years. The new phones are for people who have paid off their phone or have used the phone for half a decade or more. Don't understand why people keep bring it up. It's like asking why automakers have new car models every year.

    Then, the question is functionally not different then asking why people buy another product of something every year. Apple doesn't have a new iPhone model. People wanting a new phone will still get a "new" phone. The consumerism doesn't stop. In other words, I have a set of knives I want to replace. I buy a new set a knives that haven't been updated for 20 years. Same model set being sold for 20 years. It's still the same carbon footprint. A set of knives still need to be made and put into stores for me to buy.

    The point is to get to carbon neutral products, and for something like Apple, get to a close cycle system of production. Then, there will need to be incentives to get to carbon negative after all that is achieved.

    The questions about carbon offsets are too generic. They need to ask Apple to prove that these carbon credits are actually pulling CO2 out of the air and putting them into the ground.
    Apple actually promotes an annual iPhone upgrade program:

    https://www.apple.com/shop/iphone/iphone-upgrade-program
    If you have numbers for how many iPhone users are in the iPhone upgrade program, I'm willing to change my mind. Otherwise, I'm putting those iPhone upgrade program users in the 5% bucket.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 15
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,650member
    tht said:
    tht said:
    This time, media company Brut. (spelt with a period and unrelated to the aftershave), pressed Cook on the environment, starting with buyers don't really need a new iPhone every year.
    This question is utterly stupid. I've seen variants of this type of question many times and it remains stupid. 95% of the market doesn't buy a new phone every year. It's typically something like 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 years. The new phones are for people who have paid off their phone or have used the phone for half a decade or more. Don't understand why people keep bring it up. It's like asking why automakers have new car models every year.

    Then, the question is functionally not different then asking why people buy another product of something every year. Apple doesn't have a new iPhone model. People wanting a new phone will still get a "new" phone. The consumerism doesn't stop. In other words, I have a set of knives I want to replace. I buy a new set a knives that haven't been updated for 20 years. Same model set being sold for 20 years. It's still the same carbon footprint. A set of knives still need to be made and put into stores for me to buy.

    The point is to get to carbon neutral products, and for something like Apple, get to a close cycle system of production. Then, there will need to be incentives to get to carbon negative after all that is achieved.

    The questions about carbon offsets are too generic. They need to ask Apple to prove that these carbon credits are actually pulling CO2 out of the air and putting them into the ground.
    Apple actually promotes an annual iPhone upgrade program:

    https://www.apple.com/shop/iphone/iphone-upgrade-program
    If you have numbers for how many iPhone users are in the iPhone upgrade program, I'm willing to change my mind. Otherwise, I'm putting those iPhone upgrade program users in the 5% bucket.
    "iPhone Upgrade Program, popularity has hit extremely impressive levels, suggests a survey of US iPhone owners. It found that 36% of them were already members, and a further 25% plan to join it."

    Search "iPhone Upgrade Program popularity makes it a big success" for the source.

    Eveything I can find so far leans towards numbers greater than the 5% you're estimating. But yeah, that's not proof. You could be correct. Or not. 
  • Reply 10 of 15
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 4,043member
    Apple’s job as a public corporation is to make money. It does they by selling products and services. If people are unhappy with the fact that others are getting a new phone every year then maybe they should address it with them rather than apple. 

    As far as apple goes, the real question is how many of the 1 year old phones that are traded in are resold vs going in the trash. If they are reselling them then it’s no different than a car dealer taking a trade in - Apple is getting a sale on a new phone as well as a refurbished one and broadening its customer base. 

    One of the advantages of iPhones is how well they age meaning a refurbished 1 year old phone still has a long life ahead of it. I know many people who buy these refurbished phones so I’m not sure why having a trade in program is viewed as a bad thing.
    Bart Ythtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 15
    Cook is a great debate guy. Basically saw the disengenuous questioning a mile away and defused the “reporter” masterfully. 

    Apple is doing everything they can and doing way more than everyone else. People expect them to just magically solve the planetary woes out of nowhere. 

    Apple is s huge tech business. They have to keep offering great new products every year or they risk decline and shareholder harm. It’s an awful lot thst apple does to protect our natural resources as much as possible and they deserve praise for it. Why don’t these people hound google, Microsoft, Dell, Samsung, Sony, etc. with all their plastic filling up landfills and taxing the grid nonstop…

    the bit about “no one needs a new phone every year” is grating. Certainly plenty of people go multiple years between phones. I personally go four years. But that means I’ll buy the new phone on that schedule. Someone else may be on a three year or two year or five year cycle. There’s so many people that apples going to be selling new phones every year even if no one upgraded every year. But for those who want to, since it’s a free country, you can! It’s win-win. 

     
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 15
    They should have pressed on the removal of leather if they wanted to ask an interesting question. Leather is coproduct of the meat and dairy industry, so Apple no longer using leather does close to nothing, animals will still get raised and slaughtered for meat, the leather just goes elsewhere. Unless we reduce our meat and dairy consumption by drastic amounts, leather production will not decrease one bit.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 15
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,181member
    michelb76 said:
    They should have pressed on the removal of leather if they wanted to ask an interesting question. Leather is coproduct of the meat and dairy industry, so Apple no longer using leather does close to nothing, animals will still get raised and slaughtered for meat, the leather just goes elsewhere. Unless we reduce our meat and dairy consumption by drastic amounts, leather production will not decrease one bit.
    It doesn't just "go elsewhere." There is a price attached to it. Apple pulling out of the market will, to one degree or another, decrease the demand for leather, and lower its price. Your "elsewhere" that the leather goes, previously was either buyers competing with Apple which helped drive up the price, or it was a buyer waiting in the wings for the price to drop before they'd buy. Either way, removing one not-insignificant buyer from the market will cause downward pressure on the price of leather. In turn, that downward pressure on the price of leather will have the reverse effect on the price of meat, as cattle farmers seek to cover the cost of raising the whole cow. As the price of meat increases, demand and consumption goes down. When consumption of meat goes down, so does future production.

    The overall impact may ultimately be small, but it's exactly this nihilism I mentioned up-thread that is inherent in messaging like 'Apple's move away from using leather will have no effect' that serves the interest of fossil fuels and cattle production. It's dressed up in the sheep's clothing of a cynical, anti-establishment environmentalist, but it's just this sort of eye-rolling "why bother' posture that truly serves the wolf's interests. 
    watto_cobraBart Y
  • Reply 14 of 15
    Apple hasn’t been secretive about a project in years. Everything leaks beforehand these days. The fact we all knew vision pro was coming and that it would just be announced and not released just proves the point. They haven’t “surprised us” in well over a decade 
  • Reply 15 of 15
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,181member
    Apple hasn’t been secretive about a project in years. Everything leaks beforehand these days. The fact we all knew vision pro was coming and that it would just be announced and not released just proves the point. They haven’t “surprised us” in well over a decade 
    Interesting point to make on a website whose sole purpose is to find and unwrap all the presents way before Christmas morning.
    watto_cobraBart Y
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