Buying them isn't so easy. TH ecurrent market cap for MASI is 4.3M. Back in April it was 3 times as much. Apple won't want to spend that for a measily O2 sensor. So licensing would be the way to go if the gov't agrees with the ban.
You missed a few zeros. MASI's current market cap is over $6 Billion, which is still down about one-third from what it was back in April. Sure. Apple is sitting on a ton of cash, but no way buying MASI makes sense to get a few patents that expire in 2028. Unless the White House suspends the ban, it seems inevitable that Apple will have to blink here and pay a licensing fee to MASI. The legal costs to continue this fight, plus the costs of suspending US Apple Watch sales until the court fight is resolved--with no guarantee that Apple will ultimately win anyway--would make a continued battle a seemingly foolish strategy to pursue. Apple is in a heads they win, tails we lose situation. Even if Apple emerged victorious in an extended legal battle, it would be a pyrrhic win because it would almost certainly have cost them more than to pay a license fee. Of course, MASI faces risks too if they don't settle--the entire legal cost of fighting Apple would have been for nothing if Apple chooses to fight on and MASI ultimately loses the case.
Buying them isn't so easy. TH ecurrent market cap for MASI is 4.3M. Back in April it was 3 times as much. Apple won't want to spend that for a measily O2 sensor. So licensing would be the way to go if the gov't agrees with the ban.
What do you mean $4.3M is about the OPEX of 4-7 of engineers in the Bay Area. That put on top on that testers, trials, managers… If Apple would invent one of their own it would cost x10 at a minimum.
I also wonder what the “cutting edge technology” that they possess is all about, considering that pulse oximetry is such an old and established technology (50+ years).
"It was also reasoned by Masimo that the U.S. public would not be affected by an Apple Watch import ban as the sensor isn't "essential to the public health or welfare." This was due to Apple's warnings in fine print that the measurements from the sensor "should not be relied upon for medical purposes," Masimo declared." If the Apple sensor isn't of any medical value then why is Masimo suing Apple? Is Apple's implementation inferior to Masimo's? Is Apple's implementation even similar to Masimo's? Who actually owns the original pulse oximetry patents? Is Masimo violating someone else's patents?
Pulse oximetry was invented in 1974, the patents are long expired.
The Masimo patents should never have been issued. I'm not a fan of Apple bullying smaller companies, but this one is bullshit on Masimo's part.
“Cellular modems have been around for 20 years, what could be new?”
The basic technology behind pulse oximetry has been around for a while but like most technologies it has evolved. There have been advances in signal processing algorithms, the combination of wave lengths, etc that make some devices more accurate. Ask any clinician who depends on these devices - they’re not all the same.
"It was also reasoned by Masimo that the U.S. public would not be affected by an Apple Watch import ban as the sensor isn't "essential to the public health or welfare." This was due to Apple's warnings in fine print that the measurements from the sensor "should not be relied upon for medical purposes," Masimo declared." If the Apple sensor isn't of any medical value then why is Masimo suing Apple? Is Apple's implementation inferior to Masimo's? Is Apple's implementation even similar to Masimo's? Who actually owns the original pulse oximetry patents? Is Masimo violating someone else's patents?
Apple is a real bully. Apple + Masimo met for partnership/acquisition talks but Apple had a secret plan (Project Everest) to steal the tech without paying. They even recruited 20 of Masimo’s team, doubling their salaries…. Apple paid their CTO $4M to come over, and in his 1st 2 weeks he filed 12 patents for sensors at Apple that were Masimo trade secrets… the worst part is that Apple fumbled the ball and the product doesn’t really work and Apple didn’t get FDA approval like Masimo did.
Joe Kiani, the immigrant electrical engineer CEO of Masimo seems to be fighting this as a vendetta - he’s spent >$60M fighting Apple so far & preliminarily seems to have won… most companies would not keep fighting.
I don’t have facts but I wouldn’t at all be surprised if this is the case. I like Apple but they’re not perfect. If this is the case then good for Massimo. This is exactly what the patent system is for and it should work for Massimo just like it should work for Apple.
Buying them isn't so easy. TH ecurrent market cap for MASI is 4.3M. Back in April it was 3 times as much. Apple won't want to spend that for a measily O2 sensor. So licensing would be the way to go if the gov't agrees with the ban.
You missed a few zeros. MASI's current market cap is over $6 Billion, which is still down about one-third from what it was back in April. Sure. Apple is sitting on a ton of cash, but no way buying MASI makes sense to get a few patents that expire in 2028. Unless the White House suspends the ban, it seems inevitable that Apple will have to blink here and pay a licensing fee to MASI. The legal costs to continue this fight, plus the costs of suspending US Apple Watch sales until the court fight is resolved--with no guarantee that Apple will ultimately win anyway--would make a continued battle a seemingly foolish strategy to pursue. Apple is in a heads they win, tails we lose situation. Even if Apple emerged victorious in an extended legal battle, it would be a pyrrhic win because it would almost certainly have cost them more than to pay a license fee. Of course, MASI faces risks too if they don't settle--the entire legal cost of fighting Apple would have been for nothing if Apple chooses to fight on and MASI ultimately loses the case.
Yes, the cost (and PR) of suspending sales alone makes me wonder why they’ve pushed it this far. It’s time to bite the bullet and pay Massimo what they’re owed.
"It was also reasoned by Masimo that the U.S. public would not be affected by an Apple Watch import ban as the sensor isn't "essential to the public health or welfare." This was due to Apple's warnings in fine print that the measurements from the sensor "should not be relied upon for medical purposes," Masimo declared." If the Apple sensor isn't of any medical value then why is Masimo suing Apple? Is Apple's implementation inferior to Masimo's? Is Apple's implementation even similar to Masimo's? Who actually owns the original pulse oximetry patents? Is Masimo violating someone else's patents?
Apple is a real bully. Apple + Masimo met for partnership/acquisition talks but Apple had a secret plan (Project Everest) to steal the tech without paying. They even recruited 20 of Masimo’s team, doubling their salaries…. Apple paid their CTO $4M to come over, and in his 1st 2 weeks he filed 12 patents for sensors at Apple that were Masimo trade secrets… the worst part is that Apple fumbled the ball and the product doesn’t really work and Apple didn’t get FDA approval like Masimo did.
Joe Kiani, the immigrant electrical engineer CEO of Masimo seems to be fighting this as a vendetta - he’s spent >$60M fighting Apple so far & preliminarily seems to have won… most companies would not keep fighting.
I don’t have facts but I wouldn’t at all be surprised if this is the case. I like Apple but they’re not perfect. If this is the case then good for Massimo. This is exactly what the patent system is for and it should work for Massimo just like it should work for Apple.
Buying them isn't so easy. TH ecurrent market cap for MASI is 4.3M. Back in April it was 3 times as much. Apple won't want to spend that for a measily O2 sensor. So licensing would be the way to go if the gov't agrees with the ban.
You missed a few zeros. MASI's current market cap is over $6 Billion, which is still down about one-third from what it was back in April. Sure. Apple is sitting on a ton of cash, but no way buying MASI makes sense to get a few patents that expire in 2028. Unless the White House suspends the ban, it seems inevitable that Apple will have to blink here and pay a licensing fee to MASI. The legal costs to continue this fight, plus the costs of suspending US Apple Watch sales until the court fight is resolved--with no guarantee that Apple will ultimately win anyway--would make a continued battle a seemingly foolish strategy to pursue. Apple is in a heads they win, tails we lose situation. Even if Apple emerged victorious in an extended legal battle, it would be a pyrrhic win because it would almost certainly have cost them more than to pay a license fee. Of course, MASI faces risks too if they don't settle--the entire legal cost of fighting Apple would have been for nothing if Apple chooses to fight on and MASI ultimately loses the case.
Yes, the cost (and PR) of suspending sales alone makes me wonder why they’ve pushed it this far. It’s time to bite the bullet and pay Massimo what they’re owed.
It would appear the appeals court doesn’t share your view.
Comments
The basic technology behind pulse oximetry has been around for a while but like most technologies it has evolved. There have been advances in signal processing algorithms, the combination of wave lengths, etc that make some devices more accurate. Ask any clinician who depends on these devices - they’re not all the same.
Yes, the cost (and PR) of suspending sales alone makes me wonder why they’ve pushed it this far. It’s time to bite the bullet and pay Massimo what they’re owed.