Google now tries getting EU to force open iMessage

Posted:
in iOS

Google has been trying to get Apple to let it in to iMessage for years, but sees a new opportunity through the European Union's Digital Markets Act.

Apple's iMessage
Apple's iMessage



Apple's iMessage is on a billion active devices, and Google's messaging systems are not. At heart, that's why Google has asked Apple to open up iMessages, then alternately mocked and begged it over adding support for a rival RCS system -- which doesn't work, and Google itself doesn't fully support.

The new EU Digital Markets Act (DMA), however, mandates that firms it defines as gatekeepers, must open their platforms to rivals. That would be perfect for Google, except it all turns on whether iMessage is big enough in Europe to count.

Outside of the US, WhatsApp is vastly more commonly used than Messages, so Apple has tried to claim that it falls below the DMA's usage threshold for gatekeeper status.

According to the Financial Times, Google has jointly written to the EU with executives from carriers Vodafone, Deutsche Telekom, Telefonica and Orange. The letter to Thierry Breton, EU internal market commissioner, claims that "enriched messaging" is only available between Apple users.

"It is paramount that businesses can reach all their customers taking advantage of modern communications services with enriched messaging features," says the letter. "Through iMessage, business users are only able to send enriched messages to iOS users and must rely on traditional SMS for all the other end users."

Consequently, the "fundamental nature" of iMessage as "an important gateway between business users and their customers is without doubt justification for Apple's designation as gatekeeper for its iMessage service."

It's not clear whether Google mentions RCS in the full letter, but it also does not appear to acknowledge that "enriched messages" can be sent via WhatsApp.

Apple reportedly declined to comment, but referred the publication to a previous statement on the issue.

"Consumers today have access to a wide variety of messaging apps, and often use many at once, which reflects how easy it is to switch between them," says Apple's previous statement. "iMessage is designed and marketed for personal consumer communications, and we look forward to explaining to the commission why iMessage is outside the scope of the DMA."

The EU has told the Financial Times only that the investigation into iMessages is continuing. The EU has until February 2024 to decide a verdict.

Read on AppleInsider

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 38
    Sneaky sneaky Google! But it may be onto something here. Considering that the European regulators just forced apple to rush the USB-c transition.
    sphericwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 38
    Absolutely, I fully support that motion.
    Instead of dozens privacy-hungry third-party chat apps partnering with all sorts of foreign-government agencies, we should have one protocol and end-to-end encryption. 
    Goodbye, user audience fragmentation. Goodbye, vendor lock-in. Goodbye, blurry videos and pictures between iDrones and Androids. Hello, delivery and read receipts and typing indicators.
    It is sad that we have to rely on European wisdom to fight American greed these days.
    edited November 2023 gatorguywilliamlondon
  • Reply 3 of 38
    cubeover said:
    Absolutely, I fully support that motion.
    Instead of dozens privacy-hungry third-party chat apps partnering with all sorts of foreign-government agencies, we should have one protocol and end-to-end encryption. 
    Goodbye, user audience fragmentation. Goodbye, vendor lock-in. Goodbye, blurry videos and pictures between iDrones and Androids. Hello, delivery and read receipts and typing indicators.
    It is sad that we have to rely on European wisdom to fight American greed these days.
    It was American greed that built the Apple ecosystem in the first place. The hardware, App Store, iMessages, etc. Google says Apple should be interoperable with their system. Who decides one protocol? How do you have end to end encryption? If EU can force Apple to open It up, why can't another country force it to have backdoors?
    iOS_Guy80williamlondontdknoxStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 38
    cubeover said:

    It is sad that we have to rely on European wisdom to fight American greed these days.
    Those sneaky socialists, doing what's best for the populous!

    I understand completely Apple's stance on using iMessage as a lock in.... But, personally, it's not the only Apple feature that keeps me locked in. Everyone I know who uses iMessage uses WhatsApp too. But I believe that Apple are missing a huge opportunity in being able to force WhatsApp into obscurity, and being able to offer a decent messaging service that's not part of the Google / Facebook ecosystem.


    iOS_Guy80mbenz1962bala1234
  • Reply 5 of 38
    badmonkbadmonk Posts: 1,295member
    I think a single messaging standard would invite government surveillance even with encryption.  The right answer is to let multiple messaging standards exist.  In Europe, android and FB Messenger reign supreme and Google needs to refine their own system.
    iOS_Guy80Anilu_777strongydewmewilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 38
    XedXed Posts: 2,571member
    cubeover said:
    Absolutely, I fully support that motion.
    Instead of dozens privacy-hungry third-party chat apps partnering with all sorts of foreign-government agencies, we should have one protocol and end-to-end encryption. 
    Goodbye, user audience fragmentation. Goodbye, vendor lock-in. Goodbye, blurry videos and pictures between iDrones and Androids. Hello, delivery and read receipts and typing indicators.
    It is sad that we have to rely on European wisdom to fight American greed these days.
    Careful what you wish for. You won't get the security Apple offers with iMessage if it's opened up to any OS that wants to implement it. iMessage isn't a monopoly, especially in the EU, so the EU needs to keep out.
    strongydewmetdknoxchasmStrangeDayskurai_kagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 38
    Google is behaving like a child that didn’t get the candy it wanted. Develop a good product and stick with it and maybe people would use it. Stop trying to make Apple so your work for you!!
    strongydewmetdknoxStrangeDayskurai_kagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 38
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    cubeover said:
    Absolutely, I fully support that motion.
    Instead of dozens privacy-hungry third-party chat apps partnering with all sorts of foreign-government agencies, we should have one protocol and end-to-end encryption. 
    Goodbye, user audience fragmentation. Goodbye, vendor lock-in. Goodbye, blurry videos and pictures between iDrones and Androids. Hello, delivery and read receipts and typing indicators.
    It is sad that we have to rely on European wisdom to fight American greed these days.
    It was American greed that built the Apple ecosystem in the first place. The hardware, App Store, iMessages, etc. Google says Apple should be interoperable with their system. Who decides one protocol? How do you have end to end encryption? 
    Messaging Layer Security (MLS) Protocol RFC 9420. The standard would bring E2EE to cross-platform messaging. Yes Apple could make it a part of iMessage if they chose and you would not lose any privacy or security if they did. It's already being rolled up in some messaging services. 
    edited November 2023 chasmctt_zh
  • Reply 9 of 38
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,376member
    This seems like a cowardly act. Whatever happened to competitiveness and winning in the market based on merit? 

    Look at Apple. They have always been outnumbered by Windows (Microsoft) and Android (Google) by a vast and seemingly insurmountable amount in terms of installed base and number of units sold. But Apple chose to compete anyway by leveraging the things that they do best, one of which is to deliver an integrated hardware, software, and services ecosystem and the other is by building high performance, highly functional, attractive, easy to use, and highly desirable products that people absolutely love.

    You know, despite being behind the 8-ball on paper and in pie charts, Apple has absolutely kicked ass when it comes to profitability and customer loyalty. They paid for their success through innovation, working smarter, and never giving up.  That’s the way winners do it. 

    Apple chose to compete. Google chose to call daddy.

    I’m simply amazed that the EU regulators can live with themselves after having placed such an astronomical demand on the makers of participation trophies. 
    designrdanoxStrangeDayskurai_kagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 38
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    dewme said:
    This seems like a cowardly act. Whatever happened to competitiveness and winning in the market based on merit? 

    Look at Apple. They have always been outnumbered by Windows (Microsoft) and Android (Google) by a vast and seemingly insurmountable amount in terms of installed base and number of units sold. But Apple chose to compete anyway by leveraging the things that they do best, one of which is to deliver an integrated hardware, software, and services ecosystem and the other is by building high performance, highly functional, attractive, easy to use, and highly desirable products that people absolutely love.

    You know, despite being behind the 8-ball on paper and in pie charts, Apple has absolutely kicked ass when it comes to profitability and customer loyalty. They paid for their success through innovation, working smarter, and never giving up.  That’s the way winners do it. 

    Apple chose to compete. Google chose to call daddy.

    I’m simply amazed that the EU regulators can live with themselves after having placed such an astronomical demand on the makers of participation trophies. 
    When it's been Google being told it had to modify this or that, fined, regulated, and even threatened with being broken up to "improve competitiveness," there were cheers from some members here. That's despite them winning with " highly functional, attractive, easy to use, and highly desirable products that people absolutely love." It should have been evident that those same regulators would eventually get around to Apple.
    edited November 2023 ctt_zhmuthuk_vanalingamdewmebala1234
  • Reply 11 of 38
    "It is paramount that businesses can reach all their customers taking advantage of modern communications services with enriched messaging features," says the letter. "Through iMessage, business users are only able to send enriched messages to iOS users and must rely on traditional SMS for all the other end users."

    Translation: spam. Businesses want to be able to send spam more easily. That’s what this letter is about. Who has ever actually asked for “enriched messages” from companies? And the spam will also cost the user money if they have a capped data plan. Sounds great.

    edited November 2023 chasmStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 38
    🖕Google!!!
    danoxwilliamlondonStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 38
    chasmchasm Posts: 3,306member
    If Apple can’t make the argument that Google just wants to sell unsolicited “rich” advert-messages to annoy everyone on any platform, then I would suggest they simply shut off the Messages app in Europe, citing privacy concerns.

    As the company admits, WhatsApp has won that market and the Messages app is less popular, so it would be no loss to them whatsoever.

    WhatsApp are the ones who should REALLY be worried if Google gets its spammy way here. Being forced to allow Google Spamvert-messages will RUIN WhatsApp’s popularity.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 38
    chasm said:
    If Apple can’t make the argument that Google just wants to sell unsolicited “rich” advert-messages to annoy everyone on any platform, then I would suggest they simply shut off the Messages app in Europe, citing privacy concerns.

    As the company admits, WhatsApp has won that market and the Messages app is less popular, so it would be no loss to them whatsoever.

    WhatsApp are the ones who should REALLY be worried if Google gets its spammy way here. Being forced to allow Google Spamvert-messages will RUIN WhatsApp’s popularity.
    Is Google really able to sell unsolicited advert-messages in Europe? My understanding is the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) requires consumers to opt-in to such campaigns...

    edited November 2023 muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 38
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    ctt_zh said:
    chasm said:
    If Apple can’t make the argument that Google just wants to sell unsolicited “rich” advert-messages to annoy everyone on any platform, then I would suggest they simply shut off the Messages app in Europe, citing privacy concerns.

    As the company admits, WhatsApp has won that market and the Messages app is less popular, so it would be no loss to them whatsoever.

    WhatsApp are the ones who should REALLY be worried if Google gets its spammy way here. Being forced to allow Google Spamvert-messages will RUIN WhatsApp’s popularity.
    Is Google really able to sell unsolicited advert-messages in Europe? My understanding is the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) requires consumers to opt-in to such campaigns...

    Some posts are essentially made up, with wild accusations fitting whatever argument they want to make. 
    ctt_zhmuthuk_vanalingambala1234avon b7
  • Reply 16 of 38
    "It is paramount that businesses can reach all their customers taking advantage of modern communications services with enriched messaging features," says the letter. "Through iMessage, business users are only able to send enriched messages to iOS users and must rely on traditional SMS for all the other end users."

    Translation: spam. Businesses want to be able to send spam more easily. That’s what this letter is about. Who has ever actually asked for “enriched messages” from companies? And the spam will also cost the user money if they have a capped data plan. Sounds great.

    Yup. I want 0 enriched messages from “business users”
    edited November 2023 williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 38
    Appel should just grow up and make iMessage available on alternate platforms 

    I hate using WhatsApp to be honest 

    But it’s impossible to use iMessage due to Android incompatibility for group chats 
    williamlondon
  • Reply 18 of 38
    gatorguy said:
    ctt_zh said:
    chasm said:
    If Apple can’t make the argument that Google just wants to sell unsolicited “rich” advert-messages to annoy everyone on any platform, then I would suggest they simply shut off the Messages app in Europe, citing privacy concerns.

    As the company admits, WhatsApp has won that market and the Messages app is less popular, so it would be no loss to them whatsoever.

    WhatsApp are the ones who should REALLY be worried if Google gets its spammy way here. Being forced to allow Google Spamvert-messages will RUIN WhatsApp’s popularity.
    Is Google really able to sell unsolicited advert-messages in Europe? My understanding is the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) requires consumers to opt-in to such campaigns...

    Some posts are essentially made up, with wild accusations fitting whatever argument they want to make. 
    Maybe not unsolicited, but this letter is about advertising. The business are stating they want to send “enriched” messages to people more easily. The last thing that’s needed is to make it easier for businesses to advertise. 
    williamlondondanoxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 38
    Apple is allowed to have a differentiator. iMessage is it. 

    Enough of this foolishness. Google, for your own good, sit down and shut the heck up. It’s embarassing already. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 38
    Apple is allowed to have a differentiator. iMessage is it. 

    Enough of this foolishness. Google, for your own good, sit down and shut the heck up. It’s embarassing already. 
    No, no. Everything has to be the same. Next the EU will mandate design specs so all phone cases fit all phones.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
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